20 Episode results for "NBA"

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board Teaser

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

04:47 min | 6 months ago

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board Teaser

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy Chat Aloha. You are listening to the first transmission for my new NBA draft podcast Chad Ford's NBA Big Board. My Passion for the past twenty five years has been the NBA draft. And I'm excited to be back. I took my first deep dive into the draft in nineteen ninety six with a website co created with Jason Perry NBA Talk Dot Com. At the time I felt the information that you could get on the NBA draft was pretty spotty especially on the Internet. I was determined to find a spot for good accurate. Information to thrive. My Passion continued when we sold our site the ESPN DOT com and I've covered the NBA draft SPN dot com from two thousand and two through the two thousand seventeen NBA draft. My goal was always to give our readers. True insider look at the draft and over that fifteen year period I spoke with dozens of NBA scouts executives agents trainers and hundreds of NBA draft prospects to help people get a better feel of what their team would do on draft night. My journey took me the NBA draft combines private workouts and a number of international expeditions. All in the name of finding as much information as I could my big boards in mock draft. We're always more about consolidating. The wisdom of all those sources into information that could be easily digested and debated by fans. The best information. I always believed was crowd source by the experts. Not just one person's opinion and I have to confess. I've missed it terribly after a two year. Hiatus as I waited on a non compete from ESPN DOT COM to expire. I'm really excited for my newest venture into the NBA draft. It begins with a new podcast on the locked on network Chad Ford's NBA big board. I chose to begin with a podcast because I believe podcast are unique form of storytelling that allows for real conversation about the draft. I will be of course continuing to dish latest news when there's latest news rumors and draft stocks win the NBA gets back into session. But I also wanted the podcast to be more than that even before all the craziness that has happened in the NBA. I'm have guessed from all sides of the process process. Nba Front Office agents players and the people who get them ready for the draft to try to give our listeners at three hundred sixty degree view of the actual process. I'm also an attempt to really get a better handle on the wise of post drafts and what went wrong where I went wrong. We're NBA teams. Went wrong. I'm going to be doing a weekly series of redrafts where myself and other guests from around the NBA will go back in time and take a second look at what went right. And what went wrong in previous drafts over the past fifteen years you expect the big board podcast to be about thirty minutes twice a week for much of the year with a few breaks during the summer and a daily podcast when we get closer to the draft. I promise you that the show will be topical and lively but mostly. I wanted to be smart informed and give passionate. Nba draft a deeper. Look into what makes the NBA draft? One of the most exciting and puzzling events in pro sports. I'm excited to do. All of this is part of the lockdown network. I've known David Locke for twenty years. I actually fought the powers-that-be at ESPN DOT COM to be on his yearly. Show because when you have a conversation with David. It's deep it's passionate. He super well informed. And he's taken a successful podcast and use the the model to make great podcasts for every team in the NBA. And I couldn't be more thrilled to be on his first national podcast focused entirely on the NBA draft. He's already been a terrific partner in helping me put this together in the coming weeks. I'm also going to be debut in an NBA draft website that will contain even more information for fans to follow a going along. I can't wait to get the ball bouncing offers. Podcast will be the week of March. Thirtieth can't wait for you to hear what we've come up with Aloha.

NBA Chad Ford David Locke ESPN Ceo Jason Perry partner three hundred sixty degree twenty five years thirty minutes fifteen years fifteen year twenty years two year
Ep 1: How will Covid-19 Affect the NBA Draft?

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

36:04 min | 6 months ago

Ep 1: How will Covid-19 Affect the NBA Draft?

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast. Network enjoy chat. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board on the locked on network. I'm your host Chad Ford and my guess today's New York Times sports reporter an NBA Hall of Famer Mark Stein. It feels great call you an NBA Hall of Famer Mark. That did not happen. I cannot comment on that. Don't still don't I was there but I don't believe I believe it. What an amazing amazing honor you know. The last time we saw each other was on the floor of the Barclay Center. It was two thousand seventeen. Nba Draft. We were both. They're both of us. Were part of that. Massive two thousand seventeen layoff at ESPN but both of us had stayed on until the draft. That was our that was our last day for both of us and it was a very bittersweet goodbye. We really worked together in some capacity or another since two thousand and one and in my opinion there isn't a better reporter or person in the NBA. Then you bury your emotional. I'm a little bit emotional to. It's been a long time and whether we wanted to have you on not only because you're a great friend but you're one of the most plugged in reports in the league but what I really loved about you both at Espn and now at the Times is is. You're a true writer like you handled your job and your sources with grace and class. The writing was impeccable. I remember you lovingly agonizing over every story you wrote you you cared deeply about the league the game and the people in in the game and one of the other things always loved about you. You're always more concerned about being nuanced. And right then being I especially in a time like this in a time where. There's so much fear and anxiety and so many unknowns. That's the sort of person I want to talk about. Covert nineteen and how it's affected the NBA draft in the NBA General. And that's why I wanted to use my first guest on my new podcast and so it's really great to be talking to you about the NBA again. Mark now man. Hey that night and twenty seventeen. I thought we had a good night. I still have that picture too. I thought you and I did pretty pretty decent in that draft and the other thing I love about that picture I was about twenty pounds lighter straddle distress heading for the Guillotine had me and had been in much better shape than I am now. So that's another reason. I don't mind when that picture picture POPs up in the virtual. I appreciate the kind words honestly. Look I mean. I am hardly infallible but I mean this situation. Look this is I think this is my twenty seven seasons nothing. Nothing nothing compares to the situation that we're all into the society and certainly what League is looking at and I mean it's only been. I think it was today. We're recording us on you. Know what basically sixteen seventeen days after the league shutdown. It feels like it feels like a year. 'cause it's been so long and everybody still really grasping for answers the truth. Yeah we are and and I know that what we're GonNa talk about next is going to be fluid and subject to change sometimes within hours and maybe that's going to be the danger of prerecording some of this but I'm not sure questions I'm GonNa ask you. We're going to get answered in the next couple of days by the League and I know you're not a draft guy. No the draft isn't isn't your favorite thing and that's okay because I think the journey of this podcast and really the entire league right now isn't hinging on the NBA draft at the moment and so it feels right to start with with context and and really start to begin with questions. Like what's going on right now in the league. Will the League finished the season Howard teams and players handling unique time? Will there be a draft. How is this going to affect our league and so I'm going to start right now? Mark with the first question which is more of a human question than a procedural question. How are people in the NBA hanging in there right now? I think there's a mixture of I think there is some optimism if you look hard enough for it but there's there's also a lot of frustration and confusion because it just everything the whole world come to such an abrupt stop but this is the world that we live in everybody who is either in the League or tangentially associated with it like us you know it just said such just sudden stop and so I mean there are a zillion questions I and I. I think that one of the toughest thing is going to gym right now there are. There are players out there who don't depending on if they live in a big city and don't have a lot of face we don't even have access to a coup frightened now and that's just what makes it unprecedented that I mean. Some guys are fortunate and you know they've got their own court setup at home and they can still get out but you know this is the I mean this situation where you you can't even just go to a gym. You can't go to a park and shoot I mean is if you don't you don't have access to a hoop. It's gotta be an out of body experience for these guys to in the justice the playoffs approaching and just like that. Nobody can play so from the player perspective. How do you? How do you stay in any semblance of shape and we know there's nothing you can really do to replicate basketball? But it's funny. You know you mentioned how. Maybe the draft isn't the most important thing but I think among teams they are thinking about it hugely. Because you know we're in the middle of what should be the NCAA tournament this time when every team is really ramping up at draft preparation. So it's just it's curveball. Left right and center for everybody and just kind of looking to New York and seeing when when there's GonNa be some sort of firm guidance but I mean there are still just too many unknowns. I think for that firm guidance to come. But look if you look hard enough there are optimists out there and you know. I'm a pessimist by nature. I moved you work close enough with me to know that that. I'm you know I'm I'm like it's not coming back. You know this. There's no way they're going to finish the season. But I think I think that's I think that's a minority and overly pessimistic view. I think from the League operation side in New York. They are of the mind that somehow some way they're going to get this thing back online and even if this means the League's the the twenty nine twenty season goes all the way into Sep- September. They're willing to do it so they will do everything they can to get this season done. Okay I'M GONNA break down a few of those answers that you had their start with the league hanging in there and I'd like that you mentioned the players because I know from the outside you can look and say hey these players there. Many of them are millionaires. They have so many resources available to them. You know they're not. They're not the victims of cove in nineteen the way that so. Many people are because of the economic concern. The Tappan and many people frustrated that players were able to get cove in nineteen tests but before many people in the general public were able able to get it. So there's that frustration there but when you hang around the League is as long as you and I have you know that. There's an obsession with playing basketball. And there is an obsession an entire way of life that that being an NBA player or being an NBA coach or being an MBA executive. It's all consuming and digest. Have that stop and have it. All taken away has been psychologically really really challenging for players. I know I talked to an NBA two days ago. Who said that as hard as this is every year about this time. His head coach begins to physically and emotionally breakdown because of the twenty hour days and all of the travel and just the obsessive -ness of being there and their advice to everybody was go get healthy. Go Relax go read a book. I there's not you. You can't plan for a tonight but it's really really hard for people that are in that routine and that that's their life to actually do something like that and so there's there's a lot of the lot of depression and a lot of anxiety right now. Yeah I don't I don't think you know it's not comfortable for a lot of people to relax and be faced with these unknowns and again you know look every sentence that we say for as long as we have this conversation you can throw in the caveat of in the grand scheme of things in the world. This is nothing. This is meaningless. Lebron James the other day no some some. Some of his quotes came out when he did the podcast with with Allie Clifton and challenge channing Frye and Richard Jefferson and Lebron was talking about how his this is when his body starts ramping up for the playoffs and all of a sudden it's just shut down and his body kind of rebelling on him. You Know He. He doesn't know what to do. And and I. I tweeted in response. You know this is. This doesn't even classify as the problem in today's real world. But look we are basketball? People is the basketball podcast. So we're GONNA talk about these issues as you know in in in our little world these these are massive massive uncertainties and issues. And Look. We're in the load management era now and teams and players have never worried more about taking care of of themselves physically and so I mean that's one of the top twenty. He'll put it in the biggest bold print headline. You can't big questions facing this league is how when they if they finally do get the go ahead to start the season again. How long's IT? GonNa take to to get these guys back into position to start cramming in a bunch of games and Jared Dudley from the Lakers responded to my sweet and put four week and you know I tend to think he's right it's GonNa take a month at least for the League to kind of start up again so just so whenever whatever. It is as far as when games ARE COMING BACK. I mean you. You have to start getting used the idea that there's GonNa be a month of up before that can even happen. Right in practice facilities are shut down. This is a strange time. Nba teams can't really go in and check on players the same way I mean. Obviously they can do it. Virtually I think a lot of people don't understand how the League keeps going in the summer and coaches keep going in the summer and front office says keep going in the summer. And there's there's a lot of communication that's still happening and and a lot of that that's dried up. So what are people doing right now? I mean what? What can they do in this time period? Would a front office is doing? What our coaches doing. What our players doing in this uncertain hiatus of time obviously they're sheltering in place but what are they doing with their time. I mean team wide. I think everyone is trying to assemble these on the fly draft preparations the best bank. Can't you know they you know they didn't just lose the NCAA tournament? They lost the conference championship by and large. And you know you. You know this far better than I do that. There's a school of thought that says those tournaments can sometimes be just as vowed as valuable or maybe even more in the scouting cross us because they like to see players going up against the players that they're used to competing against more often as opposed to the more random nature of the NCAA TOURNAMENT. So they've lost all kinds of scouting opportunities that they've lost the two three four most important weeks of games. You can't meet draft candidates in person you can't do. You can't do all these things so teams I think are trying to. You know. Basically manufacturer a scouting cross the best. They can so at least I think for teen people for you know even coaches. There's there's stuff to do on that front. I I actually think much harder for the players. They you know again. Every you know it's a different individual you know individual to individual different set of circumstances depending on you know. Can you get a Peleton in your house? What kind of workout geared you have you know? How can your team's monitor you virtually but I mean I just think four players in his absolute culture shock. We'll be back with more mark Stein. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board on the locked on network to get fed in twenty twenty. 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E. L. O. N. FIT DOT COM slash Elo NBA Echelon v dot com slash. Elo In the following message is brought to you by Samuel Adams. We are in uncertain times across our globe. And we could use some positivity given the circumstances in our own country and Sam Adams wants to help bring some optimistic vibes to us and that is through the act of a simple to- Sam Adams is encouraging everyone to take a moment to recognize those people in each of our lives and let them know they are appreciated and that we are all grateful for one. Another Sam Adams wants to encourage everyone to toe someone for their efforts. Their hard work their friendship and support. It's time to let more people in our lives. Know that we care about them and that we appreciate them. We respect them. We love what they're doing and that we can all together work better. It is a simple easy realized. Act Accomplished perfectly through. Yes a toast so be sure to toast this year with Sam Adams in mind. The Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsibly. We are back the Chad Ford NBA. Big Board podcast with more Mark Stein. What's the League Sane? About wins the wind kind of like the drop dead date that they could have an NBA finals and then salvage together backwards playoffs and maybe maybe some semblance of of a season or a play in tournament or something. I know it's been tossed around that they can go. You know up to up to the header September tenth ish range when the NFL typically starts and then that's when that that's the supposed dropped a date but who's who's to say the NFL won't push their season right. I mean I think every sports league is looking at pushing things back so you know you asked me and I lost my train of thought there. You asked me why I'm pessimistic and for me. It's more of a just I you know I. I'm just personally worried that things are not going to become safe enough but like I. I'm very much in the minority. I think around the league. There is a quiet optimism. And look there's there's basically there's multiple factors here you know. The League wants to crown a champion badly. They don't WanNa have a season that that isn't resolved. This was already a very very expensive season for the NBA with a lot of financial loss. Because of the way things started with a Horrid Coal Daryl morey situation in China but there is and with each day this gets more momentum there. Is this behind the scenes. Kind of experimental fate. You saw Adam. Silver's say it when he sat and talked with Rachel Nichols on. Espn sometimes in situations of chaos. It does provide opportunity for change and and that that faction within the NBA wants to change the channel the calendar completely. This is the chance. This is the chance to Speier radically play games in June July and August and do the draft in September and then do some really and then take a short break and come back in December with the next training camp. This this this this could line up as that chance that something that would be incredibly hard for silver to push through in a vote but now it's forced upon everyone just because of situations you know circumstances out of everyone's control. There are a lot of people in the league who were interested in seeing that happen. So that's why even as I brand myself a pessimist probably shouldn't 'cause I think there are a lot more people who fall into that category. Who who want to make that that kind of schedule that's what I'm hearing as well and and I'm I'm doubtful. I'm extremely pessimistic. We're going to see an NBA finals in June or July or August Steven by something happening in September which then means I think alluding to your point that if there is an NBA finals in September. There isn't going to be an NBA sees a next NBA season. Starting in October. Everything at that point gets gets pushed back so that you can handle free agencies so that you can handle the draft. Every everything gets shifted back. I I think there's a lot of momentum in the league around doing something like this that that permanently shifts the and allows people really to think about all of this stuff because everything. Everything is in flux right now. It does give us the opportunity to be creative. One big difference here is there was so much talk all season about Adam. Silver want a play in tournament for the last four playoff spots in each each conference and he desperately wants the soccer style in season tournament. But there's resistance much more tangible resistance to those concepts than the December started the season. The December started the season does have much more support and I think again. There are a lot of people who would just like to give that a whirl and if if if these terrible circumstances forced the league to try it out well that's just the way it was and so yeah. I I I think we should all get ready for. It's GONNA be a huge shock for all of our systems and our metabolism who who've been the NBA calendar has worked the way it works now for forever. So it's GonNa it's GonNa be a big change to have you know summer league become a fall league but yeah I mean I think that it's it's a re- let's call it a reasonable expectation at this point to meet certain. Nobody can promise anything. But it's on the board and its high on and to your point with the NFL and a million other things that we mentioned right now. It's not like just the NBA is going to start doing things differently. Everything is going to change because of this everything is going to change and so I think that you're right. It gives Adam silver and the NBA more flexibility. That way a couple of quick questions here is the league going to open up arenas back for fans when they start playing again that I don't think so. I think the pessimism there is is more than justified. I mean no the thing that everybody's banding about now. Are we going to see not even a summer league style but more like a GE showcase style situation where it's thirty teams summoned to Vegas and you play handful of of regular season games and then and then start your playoffs? And you know our plant against so many questions. Are they going to create a first round? Are they going to breed create more than the first round? Can they really do? Best of seven for four rounds and they're going to have to think about it. You know how much time they have to try to squeeze all this but you know. A lot of people are spitballing. That we're going to. That's what we're going to see an empty arena in one venue and then all kinds of experimentation with more cameras than different TV angles than we've ever seen. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom again today as we approach April. I I mean we gotta keep mind that this is this is so fluid and fast changing but the notion of fans in a building. That is really. That's really hard to imagine even in in July at this point I mean look what's going on in China now. They thought they were starting up again. April fifteen and they've already had to push that back to me and every other league in Asia has basically thrown in the talent said. They're not gonNA play so It's I think I think everybody knows how complicated this is going to be. We're GONNA take another break and when we come back. Mark Stein is going to talk about free agency and the NBA draft. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board on the locked on network. Hi this is. David Locke the CEO of the lockdown. Podcast network. I'd like to take a moment to talk to our local business. Owners are tuned into this podcast. The lockdown podcast network. We want to see if we can do something to help you out in these difficult times. Here's what we'd like to do. We are going to drop all advertising rates on our local podcasts for local business owners half price and in addition we're going to take ten percent of all of that revenue and donate it to the charity. Frontline foods. Frontline foods takes money and sends it to local restaurants who are feeding frontline workers right now. Those are the hospital workers so again. Local businesses were offering half price advertising on our local podcasts. We'll donate ten percent of that revenue to frontline foods. If you are interested in this will help you out. Please text advertising two three three seven seven seven text advertising two three three seven seven seven or go to locked on podcast dot com slash advertising. Stay safe stay socially distance and thank you. Very much for tuning into the lockdown podcast network. Hey it's no Kozlov from rejecting the screen Shawn Marion a crucial member of that. Two Thousand Eleven Dallas Mavericks Championship Team joined us on the program to tell us a story of his team. Jason Terry pulling off the ultimate confidence move during that preseason we the shore views game and Orlando in arc through the team and He's over half eaten stopping and has tattoos docking aware and jet Gotcha His on his bicycle was like you. Don't like real like okay did tell you. Hey I'm going to get a tattoo with a trophy. Did you know as it was happening where it was called it was all kind of one seat was better? He's like we won the championship this year. I bought the trophy right now. For Better Net. Come out there for more stories like these. Make sure you join Adam Stanko and me on rejecting the screen. Download the program. Wherever you get your podcasts. We're back talking with Mark Stein about the NBA draft Nydia Free Agency on the Chad Ford's NBA big board podcast on the LOCKTON network. Okay we get through the season whenever that is free agency. What not. It's not just a question of win. Will Free Agency be? It's also a question of given the Massey financial hit that the NBA has taken. That owners have taken a bit because of this. What are the salary cap implications for these NBA teams? Because nothing again is going to be the same in the salary. Caps determined every year by the League revenue That's come into the League has cratered throughout the League. What what what happens with all of that well. And that's that's the thing we're going to have to see how much the cap drops you're seeing estimates where some people think it could drop ten to fifteen million. Is it really going to be that cheap? Can the players and the league come to some sort of agreement where they try to you know? Smooth it out move up you know we. We all remember how smoothing didn't didn't it didn't work in two thousand sixteen when we had the cap spike and the League tried to convince the Union for smoothing can can make some sort of reverse looting where the dip isn't so drastic a little more open for the reverse. Yeah my My math and great. So I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that I can do those calculations but yeah I mean it's it's funny though. I mean this draft class was just everyone was so down on it. There's nobody in this free. I'm not draft class free agent class. There's nobody in this free agent class. The only teams with taps faith. None of them are marquee teams. And you know now there's obviously great concern of what. Free Agency is GONNA look like when is free agency than a happen? When is the draft going to happen? Can the draft really happen? June? Twenty me personally. I don't think so. But they haven't made any decisions on that and you can imagine they're gonNA use every ounce of time they can before they have to but that's the thing. There's you know whenever you pose these questions to and I'm sure you do the same when you talk to teams. What are you hearing? What are you hearing on the draft? What are you hearing on Free Agency? I think there's such a focus at the league level to figure out games. I in the short term that it's hard for teams too hard for the League to really devote tons and tons of energy yet to matters like free agency and the draft. Because gotTA figure out step one for right and that that is the exact same feedback that I'm getting virtually from every team that I'm talking to is again. That's the draft especially is the least of the challenges right now and even as far as free agency goes some of that is going to be impacted on whether there's games again and what sort of revenue the League can can get from those games and that that obviously impacts free agency in a different way. I'm of the belief. Let's let's finish on the draft. I'm of the belief that they could have the draft. I'm not saying they will. I don't have any any knowledge that they will or won't have it in June. I think that they can. I mean we're you've lost workout. Perhaps you're GONNA lose the combine for sure you're GONNA lose you know those those interviews teams are doing at least in person they certainly could do those over zoom or skype. Or what have you? You're going to lose those team. Workouts lose the agent workouts. I know everybody's crushed about that but you have scouting staffs who have been out all scouting these players. You have all the purest in the league that have been telling me for the last twenty years that I've been doing this that all that other stuff is overrated. The you know the workout. Perhaps the combines the you know the only things that matter the mets and the medical is a really big issue I think what the draft and how they would get good medical information because I do think that every team will tell you that that that is critical but the rest of it. There's there's a lot of purist and scouts that say you know all that other stuff that the tournament the NCAA. Tournament all overblown. If you're good scout and you have a body of work to watch a player plan you should be able to project this player and in fact some of these other things actually what they do and John Hollinger and I were recently talking about. Some of the stuff happens with the Grizzlies. Is sometimes that stuff can actually throw you off from where you've been all year with a prospect and throw you off in a bad way and we were talking about. Clint Capella for example and where he was sort of ranked all season and then he came over and participated in Hoop Summit and did some individual workouts or whatever and he plummets to twenty-five and clearly he was one of the top five players in that draft. And so I wonder if this isn't a moment where the NBA can also break some bad. Maybe bad habits you know. Sometimes too much information can hurt you in either way and so. I wonder if there's an argument to be made that that you can have this draft in June and by the way nobody's been super excited about this draft and a lot of the top prospects in this draft either. Didn't play in college. They played overseas. They got injured. Some of their teams weren't GonNa make the NCAA tournament anyway. Here's the one thing I can say. I think with a reasonable degree of confidence. The sense I get is. There's no way we're going to see the draft happens. If the standings aren't finalized so if if there's a chance that there could be some regular season games in July my extrapolation from that line of thinking would be. They would rather wait and give themselves as much time to see. Can you play a few regular season games? I before starting this postseason because no as as we've heard our our good friend. Brian winters throwing this out there. You know there's if you play less than seventy game you owe money to the regional networks and so there is a motivation at league level and certainly among some teams. Can you come back? And get to that. Seventy game marker which most teams are be. The you know the the median is like sixty three to sixty seven sixty four point. Seven is the average that teams have played. So we're you know we're basically talking for most teams for five games can make get those four or five games in the regular season so they meet those you know those TV benchmarks before we get to the playoffs. So if if they can play regular season Games July. You can't have a draft on June twenty fifth. So I think that's going to be something for people to monitor going forward if the League has hopes of restarting July that will impact when the draft actually is now if if they come to the conclusion as we get closer that there's just no way the regular season can start up again and the standings are declared final. Then I think I think we will. Then you know we there. There's obviously a much better chance than that. The draft could happen at get and we're at about word about sixty five games right into the season. And so were if you're if you're talking about seventy you're not talking about a lot of games. Yeah I think there's so much financial motivation for teams to get to at least seventy that the league again. This is just as just my read. That the League's going to give itself every chance to try to do that. But that would that would be a reason. That would be a reason why they may want to explore delaying the draft. But going back all that doubting stuff. It's funny that everybody says that. And they I not disputing it. All I know teams are saying that you know what's going to happen. They're gonNA make their pick. And then the season's GonNa Start and and draft picks are going to start underperforming. All you're going to hear his private rumbles of May we didn't have we didn't have the tournament to study then we didn't have our faith. Faith meeting no wonder we got this pickerel and you don't hear that during the other seasons ever right like you don't you don't ever hear teams trying to explain why they're pixar playing playing well. I mean if there's one constant NBA draft is that myself and NBA. Scouts are going to consistently be wrong about things so. I'm not sure that this is just getting harder than ever and that it's harder than ever and you know obviously fans are GonNa have no sympathy but the reality I mean there's just there's it's harder to hit on traffic than it. Was you know when I was just a young fan love in this league and so much so many more? Nba ready players when the draft. So I mean I'm sure sure everybody's apprehensive about the draft because the pressure is going to be even tougher this time to get it right. Because of these these these new conditions will mark you've been illuminating as always really appreciate you coming on and and and helping helping me understand in our listeners. Understand what's going on in the League right now. I'm sure you're excited to come back and breakdown lamelo balls game on a different podcast at a different time But I'm sure that we'll be talking again as as more information and there's more movement in what's happening with the League and hit back when it's time to talk to any of okay. All right we will do. We will do a special Scouting Mark Stein. A True Blue Patriot for all Israeli players is got a got a favorite in this draft. All right mark stay safe I take care of yourself and your family and really appreciate you being my first guest on the podcast and just really awesome to be able to work with the again. I'm honored brother. Hope everybody out there safe and found be good all right. You've been listening to the Chad Ford. Nba Big Board podcast.

NBA League Chad Ford Mark Stein NCAA Chad Ford NBA basketball David Locke ESPN NFL China Ceo Chad New York New York Times Mark Samuel Adams
Ep 5: Ford v. Simmons on the NBA Draft

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:07:35 hr | 6 months ago

Ep 5: Ford v. Simmons on the NBA Draft

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network. It is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast. Network enjoy chat. You're listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. I'm your host Ted Ford. My guest today is the Boston sports guy thus sports guy. The Legend Bill Simmons Bill. We came to work at. Espn like weeks apart from from each other. A you from your website Boston Sports Guy me from sports dot com in NBA Talk Dot Com. Oh yeah yeah so. Let's let's let's look at our track records here for a second you went. Onto Create Revolutionary New sports page page two merging entertainment and sports together in ways never happened before you started your own website while at espn grant land discovered a whole new generation of young entertainment and sports. Writers produced an epic series of sports documentaries. Row Comedy for Jimmy. Kimmel then went on to found a multimillion dollar company. That was just bought by spotify. That's that's you me. Check notes here wrote about the NBA for a bit then moved to Hawai wrote about the draft for a decade spent two years in espn quarantine and just started a podcast from home. So I'm going to say like we're neck and neck. I you sold yourself with short. You've resolved conflict for the last decade or so so many conflicts have been resolved. You created in my opinion and perfected the mock draft which has been ripped off now for the last fifteen years. But you're the first one that really banged it home and you created the big board and two point zero and three point zero and four point now that I think the stuff you're doing with the NBA draft in a Lotta ways transformed how we thought about NBA NFL draft coverage in May making it year round. So you did great and I should mention. My Dad listened to the entire podcast. You did with KFC. And said I'm so glad Chad Ford is back. He really has full command. I missed having him around drafts. So that's huge that's huge. I want that endorsement on the on the PODCAST. Now that's amazing He's my dad's available to come on and complain about the Rick Pitino era. You ever really desperate for guest. He can come on and talk about how upset he is about how Joe Forte was such a bus and all that stuff. He's right yeah. I think he would be probably the perfect for that. So maybe we'll do the history of the Celtics and the draft and bring your dad on to To give us a long a long long history of that we I just did. The two thousand one draft was Zach Lowe and it was so funny to think about how we thought about the draft back then versus how we think about it now with especially like the first four guys in that draft did not go to college right and everybody and that was the first year you're at ESPN and I was at ESPN. Those are I kinda summer work for them and we felt like this was just going to be the future of the draft and it was just going to go this way forever and then. That's just not what happened. And now it's like we're in this weird. No Man's land as we have this. The high score thing is probably going to be back when in two years and the double draft and and now it's like Kinda starting up again with this great unknown but it's so many twists and turns last decades and even even this year. I mean if you look at this year a lot of the top high school prospects were going overseas now to play play in Australia. For example. Like Lamelo Ball. You had James. Wiseman decide you know what after the NCW suspension? I'm not really sure that you know that I wanNA play me. There's a whole trend anyway of top prospects not even wanting to play for college even if they had to wait a year and we're finding other opportunities for that and so before. Cova nineteen and not being able to to Scalp March Madness and conference tournaments. And and you know all of those things NBA. Scouts were already running up against some challenges. About what the new look what's going to be for the NBA. And so it's great to have you back and talk again. We did these if for those of you that remember. We did these. Mock draft debates in two thousand seven eight. We skipped a year in two thousand nine. I'm not sure why than we did into those. We skip tiptoe nine. We're back in two ten allowed Castano nine to ten. Then we skipped two thousand eleven. We're back on on grant land in two thousand twelve somehow somehow by the way you chose I in all four of those drafts you had the first pick in all four of those little mock draft of hates that we had. And that's why you own a house in Malibu or wherever it is that and then we did. We did some podcast. Our last one that I could find was in two thousand fourteen. So it's been I deserve the first pick just for the record. Deserved it you? Yes because you know more than I do. I I needed at least some sort of advantage but I I kinda came in waves with the draft like I feel like especially Oh seven Oh eight. I really was watching a lot of college basketball those years. 'cause those those those classes were so loaded. I became infatuated with durant and Oh eight they. Ucla team I used to love watching and It was just a really fun couple years and then it's kind of started to fade in eleven and twelve but then I ended up doing the draft and thirteen for ESPN thirteen and fourteen. So I I really got back into it and trying to study it and the first draft I did on. Tv was the famous Anthony Bennett draft where you had the most famous reaction to the entire. Everybody's GonNa remember more reaction to Anthony Bennett going number. One is the highlight of that. Well it was absurd we we were on the ground those two hours before and all the Intel was like he might fall out of the top eight nine or ten like this is the guy who could free fall and nobody knew what Cleveland was going to do but he was never really taken seriously is an option that traff though going into that trying to figure out who was going where and what was. GonNa Happen and there were some European guys nerlens Noel. It had torn his ACL. And I think that was probably the most fun draft from a suspense standpoint because it really felt like everything was on the table. We had no idea who the best guys were we. We had weird teams in the top five like Phoenix who easy? It was impossible to even predict what they're gonNA do and and it was really fun to be there and be on TV for it. I started doing the draft in nineteen ninety-six with sports talk and you know had a mock draft the the day of the draft. This is patty myself on the back. I think lots of people got this right. There was only one draft and all of those years where I got the number one. Pick in the draft wrong and that was two thousand thirteen. I didn't the Anthony Bennett coming as well. And and that that's not patting myself on the back. By that time it was generally known information team was going to take number one in the draft. That wasn't like that. I just knew it it. It was fairly predictable and teams began to signal. What they were going to do in part to start to shape the narrative about about the young calves in doing a lot of digging afterwards. They were wrestling on draft night. They still didn't know and part of it was because all of the guys that they were they were looking at. There was six players. I think that they were seriously considering. The number one pick they all had considerable warts. None of them were your traditional franchise. Change your type of player in and out of the six that they could have chose from they made. They picked the worst possible choice. I remember I. I made a big case. We did We did draft shows the night before. And then we were on live TV. Obviously and I really thought they should've taken all the depot because I just felt like he was the safest right. It was a draft where there is no superstar and he had the highest upside just to be good. You know where it was like all right. I know this guy is a very good athlete. Who gives a shit and he was good enough in college. I kinda know what he is as a pro. He's definitely two-guard. He's going to be athletic to defend people at least so why not. Just take the most obvious one they got in. What's crazy about the Bennett thing? They got really infatuated by his his ceiling. And even when we were talking about what he is at the draft. His ceiling was unclear because nobody knew a position he was. It was like is he power forward. I think Larry Johnson. I mean I think that's who they rank he was going to be. But then you think that's a bad luck basketball completely changes within the next year and a half all the sudden everyone starts going smaller in those six foot. Seven six foot eight tweeter guys become really hard to play. You Know I. It's you could just basically play those guys off the court if they can't play defense so it was bad timing but for for me that the thing that was never made sense to me is why not. You're not taking oil depot. Because you already have dion waiters and it's like well you're not winning a title of Dion waiters as one of your three best guys. Why not take a guy who's better than dion? Waiters make them the sixth man. But that's the thing with these drafts. So that's why we have so much fun talking about them talking about them after the fact even talk about them in the moment you might think you had the right answer any and then you look back two years later. And you're like look I mean I love the Joe Forte Pec when when the Celtics took him I was like this is great. Can't believe we got him and it was completely. It's pretty easy to read a lot of commentary that I wrote. I went back and read some of our draft debates together. It's a lot of its cringe-worthy because and this is this is really interesting because I love the draft and you loved the draft and I think you know obviously both of our careers have have that imprint honest that that we love the draft yet super excited about it and I always wonder why in part of it is because it's hope right it's hope for all thirty teams after the season's over especially for the twenty nine. That didn't win win a championship that year. Hope that this guy this mystery person. That's GONNA come in that we project all of our hopes and dreams onto is gonna be the person that's going to turn around the franchise if they get right and the hope is such a powerful motivator narrative and the other thing this gets to two thousand thirteen. I've been doing this a long time. I feel like I'm a fairly smart person I'm A. I'm a college professor I I've I. I've studied statistics. I studied all these different things. It's impossible to predict. I spent the last two years in quarantine thinking I am going to go back and look at everything that I've done in the draft and try to figure out how to do this better be because I'm just not happy with my own track record in all of this let alone teams and I came away two years later as confused as as before about that and so the hope combined with the unpredictability of what's going to actually happen with these players I. It's so potent to me. I think you let you left out one important. I agree with you and hope unpredictability. Comedy is the third piece of this. You know and this is why fell in love with the draft for those three things 'cause I love the NBA. I thought like the suits the interviews. All that stuff was great but then just team screwing up because most of the time the teams that are in the top six top seven. Are there for a reason. Because they're terrible or they're terribly run or both so you. Have you. Think about the clippers. The Ninety eight draft where they take all of a candy like trust me. That was crazy. As it was happening. He was twenty four years old. He went Pacific University There's it didn't really make sense in any conceivable way other than that. They needed a center and this was back in the Arrow and you know I think teams drafted based on need. Maybe a little bit more than they do now but that was a train wreck as it was happening has shaped the beat. Two thousand nine same thing that week leading up to it. It's like they're not really gonNA take him right and it's just getting closer and closer and it's like wait. They're they're really not going to take them right and then end up doing it. I that to me that piece of it is the third element that I just love. One of my jobs is to talk to NBA teams and scouts beforehand and they're actually prohibited by the NBA for a while and then by their teams of talking on the record about this stuff. And so everything's off the record before the draft right and while everything that I do everything that you do is on the record right. It's it's it's immortalized if you want to go back and see what we wrote in two thousand seven. I in our debate about guys. It's all there for you to look at it and make fun of us yet and how I take notes how quickly the narrative changes with these guys. That wasn't my guy you know that was the owner or there was a situation where the agent or we thought we had this creative place the creative and novel excuses that go into how we screwed up. This draft are infinite. And it's always interesting to hear this in the media and I know but I'm never going to give up a source. Now you'd love to that guy you were you. Were pushing for that guy for months and one of the things that it is that I did learn is I- with through all my old notebooks and everything else. The scouts that I'm talking to now I've went back and looked at fifteen years of notes of who actually was right about this stuff in February and in March and who is consistently has been wrong and I will say there's some general managers Right now in this league. There are some high profile scouts and assistant general managers that have at about two to five percent track record in the draft. But don't have that reputation at all because it's hidden right well and then the flip side of that is if somebody really pans out. The number of people start saying that they were the reason we took this guy or yeah when I was there. I was the one pushing for him. That's basically everybody takes credit for that. That even happen meet. Espn there's nine people saying. Oh yeah I found? I know exactly who founded it was John Walsh J. Leverage those those people and that was it anybody else's I like their full shit But I think the same thing happens with guys who pan out in the draft like e E. Everyone runs firm it if it didn't work out and if it did work out then there's seven. Oh you know there's the greatest example of this is Janta Takubo. Every every general manager every every scout. Has You WanNa hear story you know on? Right Wrath night. I almost quit begging begging my team to take onto the Kumho. I knew that this guy was going to be the. Mvp of the League checks. Note Chad's flipping back through his his notebook. Everybody Yana Santa. Kumbo could be great. Super intriguing. Have no idea. He's years away. That's why he was at fifteen. Even Danny Aines who scouted onto Toco and knew him well passed on him for Kelly Lennick on draft night right but has a story to tie. Did that draft well. I did that draft because he was six nine. You can't that can't be slept on. He grew three inches after the draft. So I I think if teams knew he was growing to seven feet he would have been a top six or seven pick. There was also concerns about. And it's funny. This has gotten lost the narrative about whether he could even come to America. Remember whether he could say he was gonNA come. People were nervous about that and then the competition was just brutal. I I've told the story my podcast but I really that first year I I was all in. I was researching everything watching Youtube until two in the morning. Shit like that and watching his quips. I don't know what I'm watching disguise. It seems like he's a foot taller than ever play against. It seems like he's in a you know a small high school gym. At as how could we know anything so when he went fifteen? I think in the draft. If you watch it I think I say something like oh I liked it. That's good value for where we're feels a tiny bit early but I like why not that. We're now in the upside of this draft like you're throwing darts but I think if he had gone even ten in that draft. I would've been crazy because there were real guys on like CJ mccollum when tenth. Why I remember I remember Schreuder. We all thought he was the best foreign guy in the draft. Like if you're going to take a risk on a young foreign guy. He's first Janas his second figuring that they would be in the probably like fourteen in one thousand nine range they were going to go in there and fram for shallow who we had worked in the draft that year and we would have the you know these four our meetings and you go through each guy and he. Janas like unbelievable athlete. I have no idea like is I don't know I don't even know if he can come over and time and all that stuff I would say the one thing I've learned with the draft and it's really hard to even know this if it's somebody like you or me like try to evaluate this but the recurring theme over and over again from the guys who really make it are there Jim. Rats totally give a shit In there all the time really driven competitive guys who just want to get better so that was like one of the reasons I really liked. Rj Barrett last year. And I and I still stand by him. I think he gives a shit and he can't really shoot yet in a consistent way but I also think he's the Kinda guy that three years from now we'll have we'll have a three point shot because I think he would work at it every single day until he has one out rather bet on a guy like that then the swift types that are just like great athlete. Not sure whereas heads at like Marcus Chris. One thing we've learned over the yeah. The went they learned over the years is those guys. Don't usually make it in. They could be incredibly talented. But don't have the motor. It's not going to happen. I think. Anthony Ben it's a really good example that he added a Lotta off the court Maturity stuff and couldn't even stay in shape as a nineteen year old kid. So what does what does that? Tell you tamale somebody like Barkley? Even though he had weighed issues with us at Auburn but he was still like a bad ass like he gave a shit about basketball. Those are the guys that I think. That's that's a great insight that Work Ethic Passion for the game and then the other thing that I've learned as much as I love linked athleticism all of that stuff. They have to be able to feel the game and see the game They they have to have some fundamental understanding of what it means to play five on five basketball because you can get away with that in high school and not have those things you can get away with it even in college if you're physically stronger than than other people or if you have superior athleticism but it becomes so much harder in the NBA to continue to kick Brad Right. I mean isn't he like the ultimate example that the guy was an amazing athlete? Had No idea how to play basketball. It was like he was an alien. There's many many examples of that mistake that I could see consistently making over. The years is falling in love with that athleticism. The body length missing out on this idea that they don't know how to play or the way that they play is not all the way that they're going to actually be able to play in the NBA and they're not going to be able to make bad adjustment because their heads not there in the work ethics not there and you know one of the things you can say about. All of the greats is the minute. The season's over there back working on their game again and improving their game polishing weaknesses. And if there's one thing that I want to sing the praise of Lebron James. He's he's had the ultimate work ethic of what he's done with his body what he does in offseason to prepare himself Michael Jordan did the same thing I mean Michael Jordan. Made it really in vogue to have your own trainer. Tim Grover and continue to work. Work Work Work Work even though even though you really good and and players. That aren't going to do that. Are going to are going to fall short. So I think that's. That's a great great insight. I think that's why the Celtics fell for tatum. In that draft versus faults. I think they spent two days with faults and at that point had enough experiences with different guys that the there he just seemed really immature and all these different ways and they looked tatum. And they're like that's a guy who's GonNa be like. Can I have the keys to the gym at six? Am I WANNA shoot jumpers for two hours and with those steaks with a top three pick? Jalen Brown and tatum are two guys. That are wired that way and they really valued that peace over really anything else even the athleticism the length all that and I missed a little bit on tatum and that was the signal that I missed because drew Hanlin. Who was who is training him. Kept telling me. This guy works as hard as anybody that I've ever had in the gym. He's relentless I'm telling you he's going to be great and And I thought it would be good bye but it'd be great but isn't that I mean one of the things that's happened this decade and KFC. And I talk about a lack because KFC is such a good guy. And I think people he talks to a lot of people and I think sometimes in the NBA people can take advantage of. Somebody's good nature. All these guys sell their own so they're dudes they talk them up. They pimp them they become the been Dini Brown of whoever they're working out and I think sometimes they can be full of shit and it's really hard to figure out. How genuine is this? It's not like they're going to tell you I'm working out this guy. I spent the last two months of them fucking sucks. Don't put them in your top ten like they're never gonNa do that so you must have to sift through the bullshit and figure out what's genuine and what's not genuine and that's really why it's why. I I always insisted going to these these draft workouts and people would say what are you really learn in a in two hours but you can actually learn a lot about a players make up. It's not the drills that they're taking through with how they how prepared they are how they fight through them. And you know watching Willie Cauley. Stein take fifteen breaks within. Espn reporter sitting on the sideline. Dig Off the talk to his girlfriend or to work on his phone or just to be tired or whatever you know was a really great omen of what will you were going to see from Willie Collie Stein in the NBA bill. Let's take a break. We're GONNA come back on the next segment and we're going to talk about our biggest mistakes you're listening to Chat Ford's Mba big board on the locked on podcast network. Let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead. It's hard to find the time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. 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Nba draft with a great bill. Simmons your worst call Bill. Which which guy did you get wrong? Out of out of all of the drafts. What what was the guy that you fell in love with that just turned out to be an absolute bust in the NBA. The one that I feel the worst about and I don't know of as one hundred percent my fault was Howard versus Okafor. Because I think most of the times when I've gone all in on top elite is I'd buy track record's been pretty good that one. I don't know what happened. Okafor I really thought OKAFOR was going to be a great pro. I liked his game. I thought he was good at UCONN. I thought he was going to be this mobile shop Walker. He did get hurt. And Howard thing as like the guy's a high school are like who knows it's a crapshoot and then Howard turned out to be the best center that generation so I tried to think like all right where I learned from this. Why did I get this around? The okafor thing he got hurt can't do much about that. But what I learned. It's like when you're talking about high-schoolers it's just a mistake to go all in either way because those guys are so young. You know you don't know like James. Wiseman who I is. Basically a high schooler. He barely played in college. I have no idea and you don't either like we have a sense. We can talk to people but we don't really know and we don't know what has make-up's like we've never really seen him tested in game situations things like that so I probably regret. There's a stretch where I think I was to to kind of certain on how high schoolers were turn out. So that's one another one. It's wasn't even a lottery. Pick but the James Young just because I was on TV. I really wanted him to drop to the Celtics. I really liked him and value the fact that at Kentucky and they made the finals eight year and he played big minutes for them and was in was good for them and he just seemed like he had shipped together and then he goes to the NBA. And not only did not ever Shit together. All the stuff completely knocked him out. He was done in two years. And so I look at that and I'm like I get that wrong or did did we. Did we underestimate the off court stuff? And that's where like we get situation when we talk about this stuff like you were all in Darko that year. The makeup of Darko was what kept him from being a great player because he had all the tools so the question is should we have known from the makeup before that draft that he wasn't GonNa make it or was there more than just the makeup because he also went to a terrible situation? He's a bench. Guy and Detroit is barely playing. I don't know that's what makes the draft so much fun. I don't know if there's an answer but this there's no maximum that totally holds true in the in in the draft. Either I saw Dwight Howard Workout Tim. Grover before the draft. Tim brought him in for me to check him out. This was one of the most lackadaisical non hard work ethic goofing around the whole time. And we actually know this about Dwight. Howard now right goofing around completely unserious and I'm watching this like this. Is the number one pick potentially in this in this in this draft right now and wanting to write off the immaturity of being in high school and again is very young in the draft process for me still trying to figure out how much that matters or whatever you ever but if you talk about one of the things you learn from the draft is that the guy that goes in and buses bud and has a great passion for the game and everything else is going to be the guy to bet on? Dwight Howard would not have been your guy a mecca. Okafor would have been your guy right. I actually fits that rule that you're talking about which is why you got it wrong and you didn't even get a seat at maybe his up close as I did with Dwight Howard. I mean the immaturity that was there was was stunning. Kwame Brown I mean you can. You can go on with with with some of these players. I am sometimes like there's been good ones where it was just. I almost feel like the. Gm's talk themselves out of the player because they had seen them too much in college. Like the Chris. Paul wins the ultimate example. He was clearly where he went in the draft verses how everyone who kind of followed him in college and then read anything about it was like that. Guy. Can't miss why are we. Why aren't we talking themselves at a at a Chris? Paul on the flipside. I really whiffed on Damian Lillard. I thought Austin River should've gone ahead of him. I have a draft. I already that year. Yeah and it was like Damian Lillard. Four year four year college player he's small. He can't defend anybody. Like what are we doing? Why We take Austin rivers is three years younger than I mean. That's a no brainer. He's the number one year ago. I would you take that guy and that was that was a whiff and a half but Lillard the guy that you think about. In retrospect go back and read this stuff. People wrote about him. Everybody was like this guy's an animal he will. He is in the gym all the time. Disguise obsessed with the single best workout. That I've seen in all of my draft ears was Damian Lillard in Oakland and it really reminded me you know in rocky. Three when Miss Jackie's working out there is a montage and then rockies working out in like a casino and people are kissing them and taking pictures. And then Mr Ts in the basement grunting and and and you know just working up this massive sweat Damian Lillard was Mr T. I ever seen a player. Go at this the way Damian. Lillard did they strap this thing around his waist and a huge bungee cord behind him his and his trainer was then had had the bungee cord wrapped around his waist and his Daimler was driving to the basket. He was yanking on this cord to keep Damian Lillard away from the basket in the LILLARD had to fight. Fight fight to dunk the basketball. And even when he jumped up in the air he was Yankee McCain and Lillard would fall down headed to ten of those I was standing next to Kevin O'Connor of the jazz and we were all looking at each other. Like we've never seen anything like this. I was sold that point when I walked away for that reason. Well let let me talk about if you guys that I was sold on that I shouldn't have been we. We all know about. Darko yeah you and I are going to do a redraft ables on the two thousand three NBA draft. So I will yeah. We'll go deep dark. Oh stories for that. Yeah Nikoloz Tskitishvili A. Yeah a player that I will completely hang Mike de Antoni out to dry off as well. He invites me up the Benetton. This is my first year really doing the international stuff. Dantonio was his head coach in Italy. I see Tony Putting through a workout. He wasn't even playing on Mike. Seen that should have been a red flag right with Mike. Dantonio Antoni Things. This guy so great. Why isn't getting any minutes on his team right? Mike the Antoni parlays all of that into getting a job back in the NBA inviting all these NBA scouts up mingling with all these NBA guys. Mike played me and many people in the NBA to get in in back in the NBA and he and he deserved to be. I think Mike Great coach. I loved him. Lesson lesson. Learned guys that only do workouts and don't play in basketball games and the only real evidence that you have is their head coach telling you how great they are going to be and he self interested about getting back into the NBA. Don't fall in love with players like that That was an early on tough. We know the other piece of that and this is another thing. That's led to a lot of draft. Mistakes is there was a trend thing happening at that point because by the time that draft happens dirk. Yeah you want to. And it's like. Wow this guy. This guy was the ninth pick and is now one of the top five assets in our league. So who's next? What International? Oh he kind of looks like Dirk and there is a couple like that that it was just kind of the fumes of Dirk lead to some really bad decisions. Michael Kidd Gilchrist. Yeah I miss him to love. Michael Kidd Gilchrist. I mean you think about again guys that work hard check athlete check fierce competitor check leader. John Calipari party went on and on about how he took. Leadership of the of this Kentucky Team Not Not Anthony Davis and was was the real leader of this team check. Couldn't shoot really. His offensive game was completely really in transition And that was the and that was it and when you watched his jump shot and you watch the hitch in it. You had those concerns. But here's a player that I just thought he was going to figure it out. I thought he was GONNA put in the effort and he was going to become an an elite player in the NBA. He was a winner at every level. Both in high school and college and he's been a massive disappointment he's been a good defender in the NBA. But his offense is so so poor that you really can't keep him on the floor so Russillo has a whole thing on this. Russillo didn't like him going into that draft and his case was he's actually not a good athlete. It seems like he's a good athlete. The GO-TO and I felt the same out. I was like. Oh it's GonNa be so athletic. He played it for positions and he's like like watch him carefully. He's actually not a great athlete. He's he's like a smart athlete. He's not an in. That turned out to be more right than anything because I do feel like if he was an incredible athlete even if he couldn't shoot. There's a way to use those guys but when I watch him on Charlotte I'm always like. Did he blow added the nobody told me? He has a lot of injuries as well. He he's been pretty injury prone but I don't think that's the problem. No yeah definitely not I was thinking the Oh six draft. I remember that one just feeling helpless even China. Guess I whatever I read by. Oh six draft arou- whatever might takes where I bet I was batting like twenty percent. Now 'cause like I really like that Morris was like the guy's going to score he knows that put the ball in the basket now he blew out his acl. He had some mental. How stuff and who knows. But I didn't know that at the time I I guess I could have researched it. Gonzaga was so careful about shielding him from everybody member. They they treated him like he was like a four year old kid. They protected him everywhere and that should have been a huge red flag. And now I would see that and go. Why are they hiding? This guy like what's disguise going to be a professional athlete and he and his college is afraid to even have him talk to a reporter so that that was a I think a red flag I was in on not trusting tyrus Thomas though because that one he had the momentum of like six College Games Reverend rivers like tires Thomas played well for like two weeks Were you right or wrong or Morrison? Okay I was. I was right on Morrison. I didn't love Morrison but I was wrong on tyrus Thomas I I I. I didn't love anybody in this draft but I think I'm just trying to remember right now. I actually think Thomas was number one on my board. It was a bad. It was a bad draft. I mean Andrea Bognar Lamarcus. Aldridge was clearly the guy and Brandon. Roy We all knew it was a good player but the knee stuff. We already knew that his career was going to going to really struggle with with injuries. I think that this is the other theme of when I get guys wrong is that I loved these long athletic players that can play multiple positions and I can fall in love with guys. That are true twitter's in that they don't have a position. I always want to project a positive that they're going to be able to play multiple positions but sometimes the answer is they can't play any position they can't guard any position in the NBA. They don't have the offensive skills to thrive at any position in the NBA. Tyrus Thomas was one of those examples for me. Melik pope a guy that I I went all in on. He was the top ten on on. My board wasn't even drafted. Is You know another guy that I fell in love on this potential but there was no actual evidence behind that potential that they were going to be able to do the things that I hope that they could do and I look. I've always been a believer. If if there's a weakness in how I evaluate drafts. Tell me what a guy can do. Don't tell me what he can't do. I hate all the pessimists and the draft always just nitpick every player apart and tell you what they can't do. I don't actually think that's the right way to draft but that irrational exuberance that I can get on times projecting what a player can do when they haven't proven they can do that has got me in trouble multiple times on the draft. Let me just ask you one other question about Mrs can have went that one. Yeah follow up on The one thing probably in the last I would say twelve years that I started to look at probably after the top top. Seventy eight when you start going. It's a little more crap. Schutte is really trying to focus on the guy one elite skill and and could I- if just look at the finals teams from the year before. Could this guy like at least come off the bench for one of those teams? And I've gotten pretty good at that with people. I really like Macho Sarah and it's just like I know what that guy is. A worst case scenario he's going to run the floor of the ton energy and get rebounds and you can play him fifteen minutes a game but then somebody like me mark where. I was like that guy. Oh yeah like lights out shooter. That's exactly who you want this day and age and he sucked so you can have your philosophy. I think the important later rivers. You're never GONNA bad one. Hundred hundred zero is going to be missing on guys left the right. I think last year there are a couple of guys that we all kind of. We all kind of said like Brandon. Clark I think all of us unanimously were like that guy's GonNa be pretty good worst case scenario. That's an eighth man. He knows where to go and what to do. And I think people are getting better kind of figuring out who those guys are Williams another one. I love fiber last year. I still do. I have so much thighbone stock. I just felt like incredible. Defensive Player gives a shit will learn how to shoot. I don't care that he can't shoot now. I just believe you'll be able to shoot three years from now But that one skill thing I think once you get past Picton if the guy doesn't have that one awesome skill than why am I drafted him? Oh this is why. I'm on Lamelo Ball with the number one pick. He has an elite elite skill is ability to handle the ball and see the floor is is already elite. Okay guys that we missed in that. We didn't see them coming. You know a player that turned out to be fantastic in the league that we just weren't super high on we didn't have to be down on them but we just weren't super high on him and and I have to. I'll start with two guys. Donovan Mitchell okay. I did not foresee Donovan Mitchell being an NBA. All Star and being the franchise cornerstone for the Utah Jazz. I I liked him. Okay in the draft. I thought he went kind of appropriately where he went on draft night. He's turned out to be way way better than I thought he would. Be and Devon Booker. You know when I watched him at Kentucky I did not see what he was going to become with Phoenix. And he's he's been fantastic for them. He's not played on a great basketball team. But it should have been more clear. A what he did. Well in Kentucky to that one skill type of question and his ability to do it well and what they now say about both these players. They had a bit of a chip on their shoulder. They had to chip on the shoulder about where they were drafted. They knew they were better than what people said. And they've they've really been out trying to prove that to the rest of the the rest of the league that that that they're great but those were guys that I just I. I should have been more excited about and just wasn't undrafted. Anybody that comes to mind for you. I think that's a key point though. Sometimes the slight on draft night can really help propel guy in the right direction. It definitely happened Devon Booker. It definitely happened with Paul Pierce. I think it unquestionably happened with Donovan Mitchell. And that was a guy that I had actually gotten good feedback on him. Just people like guarantee me. He was going to be good. He's a pro. He's got incredible work ethic and at that point. I was in the work ethic cited thing. I didn't expect him to turn out. You know what he became I was wrong kyrie irving I thought Derrick Williams should have been the first pick at draft. I guess that's another. Miss Small. Really liked their gleams in college. I thought I thought he could be a guy. He just seemed like a logical stretch forwarded me the league was shifting that way he was a guy who had a really good outside shot and delivered in College. It was like well. Why isn't this guy going to be awesome? I don't know what was going on with them. Off The court the Kyri thing it was like the Guy Played Ten games at Duke He's our number. Pick over this guy that I watch proof but I missed on Kyrie and the other one the I gotta say. The James Harden thing is stunning. And I think it's surprising now even people who were did that draft. What year was that? Oh that was nine I remember talking to Doug Collins about it when we were doing TV together and he knew he knew Hardin that in the college he went to and do the coach and stuff and it just seemed like his personality was he was just going to be like. I'm supporting guy who has never get never somebody that was one of the reasons okay took. He was somebody that didn't want to be a star. He just wanted to be a supporting guy and to watch what's happened with the last six years. I don't think anybody could have predicted. Definitely James hardie coming. I I was. I was high on him in the draft but not high on him. Like he's become Samer Steph Curry. I like Steph curry in the draft. I I would have laughed in your face if you told me Steph curry was going to be the. Mvp of the League Someday and it was a guy that I loved him as a shooter. I questioned all sorts of other things about his game his ability to defend in the NBA. What position he was gonNA play and while I liked him. I wouldn't have seen that coming from miles away and so that was another guy missed. Let's take I loved. I loved Rubio. Do you did. Do you feel like that's a mess. Or do you feel like he hurt his knee read as his career was really blossoming because that that T. Wolves team him in love. They were really doing well and then he tore his ACL. And I. I don't feel like he was ever quite the same. I still feel like if you played his career ten times. I think there's four or five versions where he's fucking and he's an NBA He. He also just leveled out in his progress. I mean he was. He was so good. So young and Andrew Project that that trajectory to keep going upward in in his lack of confidence on the offensive end other than passing the basketball shooting. The basketball even just really sort of attacking the basket with was has been an issue is entire career. And I I think Utah got it fixed for a little bit. But then they couldn't get completely fixed and he reverted back in many ways but go back or it's he goes to Minnesota the probably the worst franchise the last twenty years. All things considered I mean. Had they've had one great player and they've million coaches and just have screwed up left and right even if you put him on say Washington just kept that pick. And he's on the wizards and he doesn't get hurt. Just even doing that. I wonder if his career is different. I everything about going to Minnesota was wrong. He's got the Double Point Guard thing. You have con- GM then you have this weird team with Kevin Love and Al Jefferson together. That doesn't make sense for Ricky Rubio team like I wish he'd just gone on teamers. We're just running we're going we're try- score one hundred twenty points a game. We're building everything around you. Here's Mike Dantonio as coach. He's he's an all NBA guy. So I don't know that's a circumstance thing to me okay. We'll be back on the next segment talking about our favorite draft and our best draft calls with Bill Simmons. You're listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the locked on podcast network. Hey it's no Kozlov from rejecting the screen Shawn Marion a crucial member of that. Two Thousand Eleven Dallas Mavericks Championship Team joined us on the program to tell us the story of his teammate. Jason Terry pulling off the ultimate confidence move during that preseason we use the shores house game in Orlando in through the team. He's over eating stopping and his tattoos and Jet Gotcha Trophy his on his vassal. Like they'll do like real like okay. Did He tell you? Hey I'm going to get a tattoo trophy. Did you know as it was happening? It was called. It was all kind of once secret. He's like when the championship this year. I bought the trophy right now. Tori that come on out doesn't occur for more stories like these. Make sure you join Adam. Stanko and me on rejecting the screen. Download the program wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back you. Bill Simmons who talked about all mistakes. We got out of the way. Let's start with. What was your favorite draft? Oh seven because I really love college basketball that year the Drain Odin thing. We had so much fun with that. I felt like it took a life of its own like that. Became a real fun. Sports argument and people were on one side or the other. We're on the right side by side by the way what about Odin owed and also got hurt you know. I think when we came out of that championship game I picked a ramp but it wasn't I I had my thing was. I thought the rent was going to be a special player. I was convinced I watched him. I read everything about him. I was like this guy has a chance to be like top thirty all time guy and Odin I just. I'm afraid of his health risks but compare that championship game. I definitely wavered. Because he was the best part on the court against a pretty fairly iconic Florida team and I just loved everything about that draft. The Celtics had a top five pick. turnout unfortunately the fifth pick but they had a lottery pick that year we do is going to be a great one. I was watching everybody. Al Horford in there Mike Conley joke. Him Noah. Just you know everything about it was great and I really loved watching as my favorite college player. The last fifty too and that was one of the ironies. I'd love Durant and you kept calling me out on Chad you've been on the durant you and I have been leading the Durant bandwagon all year. You're you're first. And then and then I went with Odin and even tried to defend out in a year later at definitely a fine fund draft and that Florida team was just so fun to watch as well and and debating what Horford was going to be an NBA what Noah was going to be at the NBA. Just just fantastic. Mine was to my runner up. My runner up is Oh nine and why oh nine. And then I'd say ninety eight third. Oh nine because I liked the guys in the draft and then con with the back to back picks taking point guards back to back. I still is my favorite ten minute sequence in draft. It was unbelievable is happening if you go back and read by draft IRA. I'm having a stroke when it's I just Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio. Like what are you doing? How are you taking Steph? Curry was inconceivable. And I I'll never get over that one that Anthony Bannon I think are the two most shocking moments in David Kahn. The worst general manager I think to to ever be an NBA. My opinion yet pan for pound for pound the worst town for pound Everything he did was wrong. It's unbelievable my favorite draft two thousand and three yes. That was the draft that I fell in love with Darko but it also had Lebron James that had Carmelo Anthony. There was a really great debate that I think people forget at the time with a Carmelo Anthony. Camp that people fell in love with him in college. People thought he was going to be like magic. Johnson I mean there was this thing's about Carmelo that that people really loved and that argument and then Darko there was a massive increase. Boss was fourth and people really like Chris. Bosh as well. That was a draft where you were debating on all of these good choices and what was going to happen and then also Jerry West face on the draft lottery night when he standing there if he gets the number one pick. His entire franchises finally changed with the Grizzlies at falls. The number two for something to practice for a traitor predecessor had had made. And he's going to have to pass on that Jerry West. By the way gotta give him credit was the one executive that consistently warned me. That Darko was not who I thought he was was. Deeply concerned with dark owes makeup. Kept warning me before the draft. You're getting excited about this guy. You're wrong about Darko. And he was right and then guys like Dwayne Wade as well in this draft but that was the draft where I think that I became kind of draft guy and a lot of people and I actually traveled overseas. I had spent time with Darko. This was also when I met Pavel Podkolzine and he comes into the NBA Combine. Aval this seven. Six giant WHO's doing crossover dribbles and and blows people away in this little workout in the gym. Only to find out that he has no surprise a problem and actually is GonNa need surgery and drops out of the draft. There is just so much excitement for me being on TV with ESPN really. For the first time I I look at it fondly even with all the Darko stuff and I'll tell more stories on our on our redraft ables because I have a ton of stories about that draft. Well there's one other piece to that. There's one other piece though three. I feel like by that point. The Internet was really starting to become the Internet and ESPN DOT COM. When I joined no one even then was still trying to figure out what it was like. I remember in two thousand Gammons. Sign there to go full time and it was a you know a transcendent moment for sports journalism the Internet's like Wow Gammons. Is the most important baseball ready we have. I can only read the money. It's been dot com and I think and then I went there. No one and page two is really doing well and and just the website got better more people adapt to going in the Internet and by o-3 it felt like all that had kind of become what would eventually become I think. Espn DOT COM from. I would say oh. Three through nine was the first place any sports fan went. Maybe a little earlier in that I don't know but oh three felt like when we'd really figure out how to marry the draft and the Internet. It was really fun. Time to work there. I I have so much so many fond memories and so many great people that were working there. And and it really did feel like we're on the forefront of leading something on the Internet. That was that was really special. Remember member like six seven years ago like Wendy. Your site started in ninety six and I didn't even know about it probably into ninety eight. I was so starved for draft content. I don't even. I did draft Irish starting ninety seven. I don't even really remember where I got information. Other than sporting news would do a little like. Here's what the draft might look like Google stuff. Maybe stuff would come up but it. It was so disjointed and I told the story in the ninety eight redraft ables when Pierce started dropping just not understanding or knowing why. And there's no information and googling like Paul Pierce cocaine. That's just not not knowing what happened. Like think figuring out something was wrong with them but we just had no information and and especially you know. That was the draft. Where again I spent a lot of time. Overseas International Players. They in information was so scarce it was it was like an inner pull video or a photo of the player and you know one or two sentences about the player. And that's all that you really knew about them and for that part to come alive with with obviously with Dirk coming on the scene and Pau Gasol Really becoming a player as well that that was just another insight that you could go over there and actually scout these guys and learn about these guys and and and hold them in conversation with the college players in the draft is so much fun for me your well and there's the other piece with three. We actually had seen Lebron. He was on television. He was the first high schooler that I'd watched eight of his games. I had opinions on him. It was the first like that that was a problem with Dwight. Howard or your later. We hadn't actually seen him play. Lebron was on. Espn with a big spotlight on them. And you'd watch him and you're like Oh my God this guy's this. There's no way this guy is going to be great so yeah. That was a really fun. Draft thing was fun too because he was the old school Ben in college for a couple of years came through in the tournament. A few times. Mark Does Kinda big. Yeah yeah the old model but then you had like Weirdos like came in was in that draft. Marcus banks ahead It draft really cratered after the. I haven't looked at in a while but probably after the first thirteen pex. That's going to be fun for us to go over a lot of stories. They're your best call bill and you can't be like a number one pick but you know the guy that you were right about that. Maybe the consensus wasn't there yet with the NBA or other people. The Guy Bill. Bill Simmons discovered guy discovered interesting. I Don I I. I'm trying to think if I was all in. I was really really all in on curry. I really thought he was going to be special but acid. That is going to be really. I really thought Curry. I couldn't believe he fell to seven. I I I thought I didn't understand the the Knox against him. It just seemed like people had talk them so he had more he was hotter year earlier. I think I think really being adamant that thought durant had a chance to be one of the best thirty players of all time if he could stay healthy like I wrote that That's why I'm probably the most proud of how all in I was on durant. I know he's a topic but I was like this. This is like a special generational talent and I don't understand why people are acting like like he's just another scoring forward like this guy is a cross between Bob mcadoo and Tracy McGrady. And we're we're never going to see anyone like we might never see this. Guy Again. You were all in you were. I was all in on him. Also one that that you might be forgetting though somehow you messed it up in our in our Bach draft together you loved Russell Westbrook right. From the day that he went he went forth. So I don't I don't know if I can count that. I almost felt like that was shocking that he went that high but yeah. I loved him that whole year and he was another work Ethic Guy. He was like everything you read about him. He just was willing himself to be this important great player. I was bummed because I thought he was somebody that I thought you know. He's GonNa be a big sleeper and then he just started climbing and even February March remember. He was just getting better and better. And then it was like Oh. He's a top ten pick though and then when pressed he took him for. I think that's one of the great picks anyone's made because it seemed too high but he he saw the potential the ceiling of that guy and his work ethic. And all the things that we're talking about this whole podcast. He saw it the most that he was like. If I put this guy next a durant Amal set. I thought him going forward was in that draft ahead of Kevin. Love was insane. I mean they Kevin Love A had a chance to be like the second pick in the draft that year for him to fall behind Westbrook. It didn't seem like it's interesting a little bit like I pulled back from Durant at the end. You pulled back a little bit from West. Because I was reading. Are you selected Danilo Gallinari over Westbrook in our little mock draft together and then gave me a hard time when I had less? Brcko six to the Knicks and it seemed and it just felt high at the time and I do think people forget that when he went for that that was really higher than almost anyone had him projected to go but again. You're right just an amazing. Sam knows how to draft and now that was a great great example. Okay here's here's mine. Khalil Leonard and I loved Kawhi Leonard. He was very high draft forty slides to fourteen on draft night. I think by pick seven. I was going insane. That quite Leonard was slipping and this gets again to to your theme. He was working out in Vegas with Joel. Buna czar and I one of the things one of the habits that I have when I go to these workout gyms as I show up early way earlier than I say that. I'm going to be there because I want to see who's in the gym. Getting Ready prepping. Who's working hard? I get there at six thirty in the morning. There's Leonard there I leave at six thirty that night. Colli Leonard is still there getting shots. Everybody's come and gone a couple of times. He never leaves. He's always pulling a trainer over when I talked to quite Leonard. There's no B S in him. He wasn't trying to sell himself or anything he just wanted to play basketball. He loved basketball. That was his entire life and then I asked the Buna. Czar is this every day too. This is every day for this kid. That's that's that's all he does is eat sleep and drink basketball and even though there was wards to his game or whatever he was such a unique player had such a unique mindset. I really felt quite Leonard was going to be a star in the NBA and the any turned out to be. And I will give a lot of credit to the San Antonio Spurs he actually fell and this is something something I tell players. All the time fit. Matters and draft position doesn't matter falling the right team or being drafted by the right team is is huge for almost every player. Unless you're Kevin Durant or Lebron James and you're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA thrive wherever wherever you go. He landed on the perfect team for him and a team that appreciated what he gave. Because that's what the spurs were all about. And then he blossomed as a player into into a superstar and we had that one. I had that in the draft diary after Houston took. Marcus Morris. I wrote Colli. Leonard is officially are. How the hell did he signed to the middle of the draft guy which doesn't happen every year. But when it happens prints these Danny Granger pylos Roy Hibbert. You knows it's happening. He should have been a lottery. Pick that guys at natural and be a small forward. I think I liked mostly because you like them because you were all in on them that year but I another guy for me was Dana grave error. I was going I was going nuts. Ii your he fell nine picks lower than he should have gone and he was really good in college. And you know. He got hurt in the pros but he. He was twenty five game on year and and eat. I think that one had a chance if he didn't get hurt in. The pros is a potential like fringe hall of Famer. Because he could've played fifteen years. He was a three D. Guy. High Level He was first or second best guy and a good playoff teams and and that would have been one where we look back. And we're like like same way. You look like the. Rondo slide into twenty one and things like that like how did that happen? I also like Danny granger light. He in fairness to Danny. Granger there was also an injury concern with his knee. That is part of the reason that he slid on draft night. Actually quite Leonard. There were some injury issues there as well and Danny granger case. I think they panned out to be a little bit more predictive of what was going to happen a little bit later on in his his career without same knee and problems. That were the brand right. Thing was the the brainer. Right thing was the best example of that. 'cause I I remember when the Celtics traded that pick being so upset and I had connections at the Celtics and they were just like our team. Doctors just said he's not going to be a basketball player in five years but even with that said he should've went higher than he did in that draft because of what he gave you for five years in the same with Danny granger and this is where again teams can make a mistake. I'm GonNa give you one more. My best calls and this is a guy that I said was not going to be good and turned out to be right now. It's Austin rivers. I got so much crap over Austin rivers. I was on. I take with skip and Stephen Curry was going. Nuts was saying Chad. You've heard doc rivers feelings and you know the way that you're talking. This is an implication on his father. I mean my goodness the heat that I took on Austin rivers. I just didn't see it. I thought he was a selfish basketball player. Who was skilled but didn't have the athleticism and I didn't think had a team mentality to really fit what he needed to do in the NBA and and while he he's hung around the League there was a lot of people that were arguing. He should be the number one pick in the draft the number two pick in the draft. And you know falling in love with a player because of their parents pedigree is the dumbest of reasons to like to like a basketball player. I haven't seen any quarterly briny James. We're going to see it with Brian about three years four years. There's there's just no correlation I unfortunately in almost every every field that your kids are going to possess the same talent or skills that you are an and in fact off than their parents are famous the way that they are. They don't have to work for things the same way that that their parents did that. That sort of entitlement gets into it as well. Yeah it's tough I have to. I have to go okay. I'd I'd say longer actually have to leave k. Bill this was. This is good that but we're GONNA do more next week on online. We're doing the two thousand three draft. I'm looking forward. And Carving Out Caveat Ninety minutes ninety minutes to talk about Darko Milicic rich for at least now the other all the other stuff all the other stuff. Good stuff like why I still don't understand why Detroit didn't take Carmelo but we'll go into all that talk about all of that. Got A lot of stories looking forward to coming onto your pod. Thanks so much for coming on to my pod. It's great to have you back. I missed you. A misreading ibis tearing you so. I'm glad I'm glad you're glad you'RE GONNA go. I've missed this. It's been six years great to be with you again. You've been listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the locked on podcast network.

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Ep 16: NBA RE-DRAFT 2009

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:00:33 hr | 4 months ago

Ep 16: NBA RE-DRAFT 2009

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown. Podcast NETWORK. Enjoy chat. You're listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. Today's episode is brought to you by built bar. Bill bars a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. The built BAR DOT COM and use. Promo code locked on. And you'll get ten dollars off your first order. I'm your host Ted Ford my guest. Today is the athletic senior writer and hosted the Hollinger and Dunkin podcast on the lockdown. Podcast network John Hollinger. Welcome back John. Hello Hi Chad. It's redraft time. This is GonNa be fun one one thousand nine NBA draft lot lot of talent in the straffed. This was a good draft. We when I went back through this and was making my board for this again. That like there were good players at leave off good players that we had to leave off. There was a lot of excitement around this draft and this was a draft that was loaded with point guard prospects. I'm not sure that we've ever had a draft where there were so many choices among point guards and who is going to be great in some panned out some didn't buy a loaded draught on on that end. And as we pointed out in our last redraft to MVP's are gonNA come out of this. Draft was extraordinary. So if you haven't listened to our redrafts before John and I are going to do this in a mock draft ask format. We're going to be basing this on hindsight right. Not what people were thinking at the time of the draft but back on their careers who we think based off of their careers should have been drafted. Wear John I believe. Get the first pick in this draft. It goes to the Los Angeles Clippers. And let's just give a historical redraft before survey knows what what happened. The Clippers had the number one. Pick the draft they selected. Blake Griffin at Oklahoma. Who is the consensus number? One guy in that draft. There was no debate about who the number one guy in the draft should have been grizzly. We skipped a three the grizzlies on the advice of John Hollinger. No no I was not with the Grizzlies. When this happened. Select Ashim the beat out of Yukon. And we'll talk a little bit about Ashim a little bit later. The Oklahoma City Thunder on the board at number three James Harden out of Arizona State San prestigious third in a row. Mvp that he drafted Sacramento Kings. The fourth pick in the draft they selected. Who eventually became the rookie of the year in that draft? Interestingly enough tyreek Evans at a Memphis Minnesota Timberwolves had backed the back picks after that they picked fifth and sixth David. Kahn was on the clock. A selected Ricky Rubio out of Spain and number five which wasn't a big surprise reveal was in that range. But then they shocked the world. By taking point guard Johnny Flynn out of Syracuse at six win at number seven the Golden State Warriors. We're able to select steph curry out of Davidson one. Pick behind Johnny Flynn. Yes New York Knicks on the clock eight Jordan Hill out of Arizona. The Raptors at nine took the. Marta rose in out of USC. Milwaukee took high school prospect Brandon Jennings who did not play college basketball. It's one of the first players. Say Hey if I can't go straight from high school. I'm just GonNa Skip College basketball season. The Nets at eleven terrance Williams out of Louisville Charlotte at twelve Gerald him out of Duke. Indiana took like the most Indiana guy ever entitled. Yes out of North Carolina. Like you saw that one coming a mile away. That was back with Larry. Bird was running the front office. Tyler hands borough all the way and the Phoenix Suns at fourteen took Earl Clark out of Louisville to Louisville prospects and the lottery. That doesn't happen every day. Okay the Clippers are on the board. This is actually a tough call because you have the choice of two. Mvp's to select from here. Is this Steph. Curry is this. James Harden Hoodie. Take Yeah this is tough. This is tough but I'm GONNA take hurry. I just think his his peak fifteen sixteen seventeen was was the highest of any stretch. Any of these players hit from this draft. I mean seriously any players in NBA history practically. So I'M GONNA I'm GonNa crap that peak. I think he has to be the top pick. And you know it's it's so interesting. Obviously the history here teams weren't teams. Who are quite as locked into how much the three point line could still be weaponized and how much the game would still change which both curry and harden the top and James Harden really showed in the years following this draft but a as as an offensive force. I just don't think we've had anything quite like curry in terms of the mayhem. He causes when he doesn't have the ball as a screener as a cutter and then his ability to shoot from such distance when he has the ball and so for that for that reason. I think he has to be the top pick. I also would have selected curry at number one and such an interesting backstory. His Dad obviously famous NBA player Dell Curry. Who had a beautiful three point shot and was one of the first real like three-point shooters in the NBA? Yes plays at Davidson but makes a national name for himself with his scoring antics and his ability to let it fly anywhere on the court. Tons of questions about Steph Curry. Could he make the transition from really a primary scorer to a ball handler and distributaries started to do that towards the end of his college career? But there was a big question mark about that. Was He an elite athlete? His size his lack of strength. Was He going to get destroyed on the defensive end? I mean there was a lot of questions about steph curry and teams. Were all over the board on him. No one disputed the shooting ability When I think as you said teams weren't still recognizing exactly how to weaponize that and yeah and you know we've we've been talking about prospect. These are red flags right size for position. Strang who's going to be able to how he's going to be able to do defensively and in fairness curry wasn't curry his first few years in the League. I mean he was was. It was funny because he started slow the second half of his rookie year. He really started to pick things up. And you could see that. His ability to run pick and roll was going to was going to be at the very least good enough and ended up being far more than that but he really pick things up as a point guard and bald lead ball handler pretty quickly and I think that that was one thing that was really an accelerate that maybe teams did not anticipate and he despite being slight of frame is is strong and as more athletic than he looks and the other thing is continuing to work on his game and that release of shot getting quicker and quicker and quicker to adjust for a little bit for his lack of size and and other things in the NBA Steph. Curry is one of those prototypical guys that kept working and working and working on his game riven and he figured out what defenses were taking away how to adjust to that and. I think he's a great testament to doesn't have the Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant Lebron James Physical attributes by that work ethic and that drive. Was there for sure all the way and he figured out how to make it work and and he's been incredible. I've got a great steph curry story. It's actually one of my favorite pre-draft stories so we're in Chicago it's right before the NBA draft combine. And Tim. Grover ran that attack. Athletics building. Right where the pre-draft camp was happening combine was happening in Chicago and Steph. Curry comes in a day or two before the combine to get some shots up his dad. Dallas there and and Tim has guys like hanging around Tim. Grover by the way if you don't knowing that was Michael Jordan's trainer if you've been watching the last dance you seem tem talk and Tim has trained a lot of MBA prospects. And Tim has guys that are hanging around. That can help with certain things and he has this guy. I won't say his name but he was a shot doctor and in his role he would show up there from time to time to help with shot. Tim Grover. So so steph. Curry walks into the gym. Tim Grover goes. It goes over to him and tells him leave him alone. First of all dads there right and you know steps are just leaving them alone. Let him shoot. Let him get into work out or whatever I've standing next to the guy and he can't. He can't help himself. He's watching. Everything's going in for Steph curry right. Which is a problem for a shot? Dr Like everything's going into a workout to whatever and one of the things he did is he would take the bill out of a hat and put coat hangers in it and he was always trying to get your shot aligned right so you move your shot up through the middle of your face right to this coat hangers or whatever that was sort of his stick and he's waiting waiting waiting waiting. Finally Steph Curry Mrs. Like a couple of shots in a row. He can't help himself. Boom he's on Steph curry like white on rice boom. He's on them trying like show him his State or whatever it. We're just cracking up. It'd be here's the greatest shooter who has who has the greatest coach already and Dell Curry and he just couldn't help himself was going to show Steph curry how he should adjust his shot or differently in the draft that that was like we were just busting up. There's six of us on the sidelines. Busting up laughing watching this happen. I'm glad Steph didn't listen to him. Stephan listen to him. No one should tell Steph. Curry had a shoot okay franchise changing pick for the warriors. They are not years that we know today with off curry now. And they don't get Kevin durant either they don't get Kevin Durant. It's it changes everything. Yes the second pick in the draft goes to Memphis and and here's something that I think. Sometimes fans don't understand you can have a scouting force. You can have a front office. But at times owners get something stuck in their heads and they can override everybody in the draft. And I think this is widely regarded as Michael Highs Lee. Who was the owner of the Grizzlies? At the time pick he was still stuck in this. Mindset that if you've been watching the last dance you hear talk a lot about that. Look big guys. Are The way to a championship right. You don't you don't win with guards you take big guys at the top of the draft. And here's the beat. He's what seven seven three. He's a monster of a player and and he's he's had a good career at Yukon Yukon. But there there are question marks about to beat. Somebody asked me the other day on a podcast. What was the most polarizing prospect that I covered in the draft and I and immediately said to beat because it was either? He's going to be great and he's worthy of a top to pick or there was a number of teams that did not have them in his him in their lottery. That that's rare. I mean that's nearly rare divergence. That was happened and fortunately for grizzlies fans Michael Beasley loved. Aim fell lovely music very charismatic player. And I think that also a helped in interviews or whatever. He was funny very enjoyable to talk with. They take him number two. He plays a total of two hundred twenty four games averages ten minutes a game in the NBA. Two points per game. This is one of the all time bus bus and they had to trade a I just to get off the last year of his contract. It was a disaster. Meanwhile the Guy. Right below them was James Harden out of Arizona State who has big who has created to me almost like an entire new game. I'm like who else plays like James Harden or played like James Harden. Yeah nobody it. He's created something unique unto himself and I'm trying to think of the last guy that I think of. That was sort of like that. And he wasn't the same impact score the hardened was but like maybe Monica nobly in just that his style of play and everything about him was just incredibly unique and different and was just totally based off of athleticism. Yeah it was. It was a lot more skill based two two more stories about the beat. Pick First of all would so amazing. The Grizzlies already had Barca saw. You know they throw in in the trade yes yeah yeah yeah. So there's that but the other funny thing now I don't know if you've heard this story But James Harden worked out for the Grizzlies and tank the workout intentionally. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. Was it like shooting balls over the backboard and stuff like it was just did not want to get pick but he showed up for the workout because I guess the agent told him to go rob Pelinka and probably hatched that that strategy with hard there was if there was an agent that was always trying the engineer the draft and get his guys to where he wanted them to go. It was rob Pelinka Heart in I went down to watch hardened workout pre-draft the Pelinka was always a guy that carefully guarded his guys. Very careful about this and you know one of the things that really struck me about harden. Was You know the workout? The workout was okay. I mean he's a skills guy and sometimes it's more like athleticism or some other things that actually pop and those sorts of work outs. Yeah that was a plane with anybody but when we sat down and talk and I believe it was his mother that was there as well the intelligence that was there the feel for the game that he was a student of the game And I I was just really really struck by that. He gets drafted by o'casey. He doesn't really you know He. He's not GonNa get the traditional and the number three pick in the draft. I'm going to go in and get all the shots or whatever because at this point you've got Russell Westbrook and you have Kevin Durant on this. Basketball team was this. We know that Oklahoma City ended ends up trading him in part because of cap reasons and not wanting to pay the luxury tax. Was this like one of the biggest missteps ever because you imagine over time that Westbrook Harden and Durant win multiple championships possibly I think also the thing you have to ask is even if they were going to trade one of them would have been better off trading westbrook and keeping and durant together right because of that sometimes rocky relationship between Westbrook and Durant and Hardin being more facilitator minded. Yeah hard harden is probably easier to play with the than Westbrook So I mean. He wasn't perceived as being in the same as those guys because he was still coming off the bench but I think it was immediately apparent when he got to Houston that he was a big time player too so I think that I think the thunder should also wonder about that a little bit and then ironically they ended up paying tax last couple years to keep together teams at weren't nearly as good and Yeah I think they learned. They learned from the mistakes. What he five points per game for his career and that's under sell it that's underselling it a bit. Considering that his first couple of years at Oklahoma City he was not a product. Or exactly tops. Everybody in wind shares tops. Everybody in For I guess my question to you. Is You talked a little bit about peak curry beating. P. Carden and that being the reason that you select them above is there. Is there any other reason that that hardened goes to instead of one in your eyes I? That's basically it. I mean they're both really high level offensive players. You can build your whole team around. There's I mean it's a pretty close gap between these two guys. What about defense hearted? Yeah hardens heart has been knocked for it. I think I think he had a stretch where he was really bad. But I don't think that's been the defining thing over the course of his career either. I think he's actually low key. A pretty decent defender right now. He's very good switching onto bigs which is a huge part of their scheme. So that that's important. I think he loses focus and loses attention a lot and I think that happened a lot more especially that one year the year. They lost to Portland in the first round. I think that was a big problem but I don't think he's been nearly as bad in that. Respect the last few years as it was at that time should he get. I think if I can anticipate the argument that that hardened should go ahead eight hundred twenty six games. Six hundred ninety nine games over forty five hundred more minutes played steph. Curry's had some injury issues multiple times during his career harden has hasn't really. He's been much more durable as a player. At what point do those hundred and twenty seven games? Start to add up. I think he'd need at least one hundred. Twenty seven more flags fly forever right. I just I just think that Pete. Curry wins that okay. So James Harden goes number. Two TO MEMPHIS would've been a very very different team. That you would have joined in Memphis hard and Marc Gasol and Mike Conley and Zibo. Tony this could have been a championship team in Memphis That's how big a whiff that to beat thing was because it wasn't like hard and had to come in and do it alone in Memphis again with gasol and Conley yes. This would have been an amazing basketball team absolutely. Wow Wow okay. Hey sorry sorry grizzlies fans. That's tough all right. Okay City on the board number three. Who Do you got I will take one of the most hated opposing players and Memphis Grizzlies history but a great fit for Oklahoma City from the University of Oklahoma Blake Griffin town guy. Yeah who was? Who was the the number one pick and before the lottery? People are out obviously talking about the fact that if Oklahoma City won the lottery. This'll be perfect. Pairing Griffin was from Oklahoma. And all that the one thing I do want to say about Blake Griffin. Because we we talk about guys putting in the work and improving their games and whatnot His body is failed him a little bit. The last couple years but the development he's made as a shooter and a ball handler from when he came into the League is unbelievable and I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for it. Where by the time he got to Detroit he was basically operating as a pick and roll ball handler above the three point. Line shooting step back. Threes off the dribble for a guy who came into the League has basically a a dunking highlight reel lob city and all that just a profound change in his skill level deserves a lot of credit for it and I hope we'll see him on the court again. Yeah this is really I mean. I still think that curry and harden even if Griffin is healthy. His entire career probably. I'd still select both of them. Had of event but it becomes a much closer argument if you have Blake Griffin healthy throughout his career. Miss BELIEVE HE MISSED HIS ENTIRE ROOKIE SEASON MRS entire rookie season. Yeah obviously only played eighteen games. This year Miss Bits and pieces of other seasons. So it's just always it's always been in the background even when it hasn't been in the foreground. He had to the single craziest training regiment of anybody. That I've ever ever scouted Damian. Lillard is next. He was trained by this navy seal and it was up in San Francisco and the workout that he put Blake Griffin through. Was the most grueling thing that I mean Blake Griffin's beast. It was the most grueling thing that I've I've ever seen he was running sand dunes. There was all the stuff that he was doing. Throughout the bay area. It was unique. I'd never really seen anything like it. Before and his trainer the the entire time my Blake Griffin worked out was jumping rope the entire time. I mean he was the seal he was in really great shape but I wondered a little bit and again i. I have no way of knowing you know Tim. Grover talked a lot about this in the NBA building a basketball body training specifically for certain things and actually training as a way of preventing injury and that was a part of why. Jordan brought him in and wanted to make him durable and last and I wonder if this might be the case where Blake Griffin. Actually could have used. Maybe someone like a Tim Grover. Who was training his body to be more a basketball player than a seal. Yeah yeah was this. Was this frank a life changer. Yeah that's right. Yeah Yeah because he was he he. He was at a Memphis the University of Memphis for for a long time after that So Yeah I've I've heard other people in the league wonder that if he was if he was really training his body. The Right Way When he was doing all that stuff. Okay well this would have been also pick her Oklahoma City. I mean Russell Westbrook Blake Griffin. Kevin Durant I also would have liked to seen that. Yeah absolutely yeah. The made my felt less pressure to make a trade to and one hundred percent agree with you that Blake Griffin is one of those amazing stories of a guy that just continued continued. Continue TO ADAPT HIS GAME. Averaged four and a half assists per game as a as a power forward in the NBA. Yeah Yeah I mean he was the Pistons Lead Ball Handler In the that eighteen nineteen season. I mean it was incredible year that nobody saw because he was on the Pistons. All right it's the Sacramento Kings. It's that time where we we shake our heads a little bit at the kings and this one's a little bit harder because they drafted rookie of the year And a rookie of the year tyreek Evans who was the only the fourth player in NBA history to average at least twenty points five rebounds and five assists in the rookie season. His rookie year was amazing. I mean he was the clear cut rookie of the year with all the other town in this draft. The only other three players who are the other three Oscar Robertson Michael Jordan Lebron James. So that was one of these is not like the others and so you know everyone's high fiving in Sacramento. After that rookie year right Blake Griffin Nine Blake Griffin. Didn't play and so that's part of James Harden wasn't the MVP Steve Kerr McGee. The years of curry wasn't it was it was tyreek Evans and then just sort of watch his game every year. Start to drop off with a with a few exceptions. We'll we'll talk about him later when we when we get to him. Sure I have Demar Derozan here Dings and Y- Super Big Prep Star High School. Major major buzz with two rows and possibly being the top two three pick in the draft had questionable season at USC. The athleticism was there. The shot wasn't there. There's major questions about whether he was going to be able to score in the NBA. You know from from a shooting standpoint. Since had a really solid career had been a twenty point per game score in the league throughout his career improved as a shooter. They'll never became a great shooter. And as just spend one of those solid solid starters in the league if not never quite elite but I think there's a major cut off your after these three guys and Rosa Ted. The best career of the guys that are left. Yeah an really a- An eye test guy coming out of USC. His analytics weren't great but he turned into a really nice pick for the raptors and You know one of those guys that loved plane in Toronto which was often a problem for the raptors was deeply hurt when he was traded to San Antonio. We're really you don't hear about that as much anymore. But a player. That was really really devastated. I think wanted to place entire career at Toronto. Great pick for them you understand. Why Masai made the trade that he made a lead to a championship in Toronto. That I don't think was possible with the Marta Roseanne. Yes of course even if it was getting Kawai just on on one year. I think he's still look back at that. Trade and say the Goals Championship. It was worth it. But he's number four for me that leaves you with Minnesota's fifth the fifth. Pick in the draft. They they did need point. Guard legitimately They drafted Ricky Rubio. Who was a European sensation at the time and a guy that was playing at a very high level in Europe and had been for years is that you'd select the number five I think they can do a little better. So I'm GonNa go with drew holiday. Who had some injury questions but he definitely become a really good two way player. One of the best defensive players in the league and then a good score in his own right to and you know still has some good years left in him too and I I think after those after those guys we mentioned I mean. He's clearly the next guy here. Only one all star game just made the All star team in Philly the one time we probably should have made it in seventeen eighteen with the with the Pelicans he had a really tremendous year. But he's a pick here shat out to my former colleague Ed Stefanski who grabbed him in Philadelphia with the eighteenth pick seventeenth seventeenth year pick. Yeah interestingly he was ranked very high on my board for MOST OF THE YEAR. A top five pick and was a bit of a slide on draft night. Also a prep star didn't have the most dominating season for Ucla but there was just a lot a lot to his game. I really loved him in the workout that I saw him in. I I thought he actually should have been like a top five ish pick and I thought this was an absolute steel at seventeen in the draft. And so yeah I think going going five makes a Lotta Sense Minnesota. That could have done better. Speak speaking of picture. Minnesota could have done better. Stop you for a second. I'm going to have a built bar. Got A ton of options here. But I'm going to go. Yeah I'M GONNA go with the raspberry chocolate cream okay Sorry John a first of all. The bar tastes great. It's Creamy at soft. It essentially tastes like I'm eating a piece of candy but slow and sugar Scott High Protein. It's it's an energy bar. It's it's not a candy bar. John it just it just tastes like one. I've actually been using them for the past few weeks for a boost my energy and protein after like long runs but I also think they hit the spot after talking about the NBA draft. And there's no high sugar content or chalky bad taste left in my mouth and in other words. It's the opposite of David. Kahn draft. Well okay almost done. I'm tempted to do one more. That whole bar of deliciousness set me back a hundred ten calories. Now I'm buying Peanut Butter Browning okay. So the cool thing is that on their website. They let you mix and match the bars. You want John in any combination so everyone gets their favorite and all right. Look I know we need to get back to the twenty twenty. Nba Draft. So here's the deal. Go TO BILL BAR. Dot Com use. Promo code locked on use code locked on for ten dollars off at built bar dot Com locked on ten dollars off at built bar dot Com. Next time we can take a little break together and you can enjoy your bill bar while I enjoy mine. You're listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the Don podcast network brought to you by bill bar redrafting the two thousand nine NBA draft John Hollinger. John has just selected the first pick from Minnesota that back to back picks that year he also selected point guard to the Third Point Guard. Dow Minnesota Jrue. Holiday is off the board they took Johnny. Flynn every buddy. Who has anybody said? What on on draft night and Johnny. Flynn was one of those guys that parlayed. I think it was like a four five overtime game in the Big East Tournament. Six overtime ULA six. It was something insane that got him that intangible warrior quality he worked out really well in workouts he was a very positive upbeat guy who I think had you know those intangibles that you look for and in fairness to him injuries played a significant role and absolutely in in what happened to him in the NBA. He he looks worse today than he was a basketball player. But even then I don't think uniformly every that he was absolutely hammered for taking Johnny. Flynn with Ricky. Rubio almost didn't get Ricky Rubio to come to Minnesota because they select the Johnny. Ricky Rubio actually felt disrespected by Minnesota. Which is a classic sort of David? Kong? Ask move for them and it just made so much sense Ricky Rubio. What was the one thing? Ricky Rubio couldn't do John Shoot. He couldn't shoot. Who was on the Board Steph Curry? Yeah that guy. Yeah and and with a question at the time with Steph. Curry was even going to be a point. Guard to guard and Ricky Rubio being a toddler point guard. I think a Rubio curry backward would have been really really interesting. Oh man imagine all the transition threes they would have gotten from ricky pushing it up and staff. Just run into a spot up. Oh Yeah it. Just it made so much sense and instead he takes. Johnny Flan of Ricky Rubio. Does it come that that season Flynn turns out to be a bust just just in the long line of both David. Kahn Esq mistakes. But also just Minnesota Minnesota mistakes in general and I. It's a pretty pretty heavy one and I think as you said there was like this clear it's clear the top five guys are and then after that. I think it starts to get a little bit harder. There's sort of a bunch. There's a model here. There's kind of a bunch of guys muddled together that you could justify taking depending on you know what what you thought or whatever. I'm I'm may be going to be controversial here. And Give Minnesota Back Ricky Rubio okay. Yeah I I still trying to understand what went wrong with Ricky Rubio's career because the talent to me is undeniable on the cord and some of it was shooting for sure but he got in a funk I think in a in I'm not really sure why then he kind of worked himself out of it in Utah and then sort of fell back into it. Yeah yeah he was. He was really good for the sons though like He. I mean that's signing really helped them. It really was that confidence in his offensive game. As far as scoring the basketball he struggled at times. They even take shots not not just hearing pointers to shots in general and that seems to be the thing that held him back he ended up being thirty nine percent. Career field goal shooter. Which isn't which isn't great now. Yeah so the thing. It wasn't just the long range shooting with him. The finishing also wasn't great just making from anywhere on the on. The floor was always a problem for them. I think that's the thing that that held them back. The most because just a brilliant passer. You know confidence matters and you know we see this like with Markelle Foltz you know to certain extent psychology as part of the game. And if you start to convince yourself that you can't do something. It can snowball pretty quickly and create problems and for all the hype that Ricky Rubio had coming in as a sixteen year old playing professionally in Spain and and all the talent and clear basketball. Iq That was there. There was also a mental block around his offensive game that I think helping back but I still think just on his brilliance as a passer and and his ability to defend the defender lost defender for sure. Yeah I still think he's better the other point guards that are on the board as well as better than the other sort of role players that were probably going to be talking about now. I then he could have taken in this draft. So that's that's my guy from Minnesota. They didn't get it right. They did get it right when they drafted him. They just drafted him. They should have drafted Steph curry and I think the maybe his whole career would have been different. Had He played with Steph Curry Miss Backcourt? That leaves you with Golden State Warriors. Who are really bummed right now. Yes steph curry is off. The board their franchise is not gonNA take off now. No no no but Can can I interest you? A Danny Green. You can as as a replacement for steph curve. My pickier is Danny Green. He was the forty sixth pick in the draft by Cleveland. Cleveland LET HIM GO. San Antonio scooped up San Antonio cut him then San Antonio brought him back and the rest is history turned into a really high level role player forty percent career. Three point shooter very good defender especially ridiculously good in transition. Defense just a plus role player for a long time. Still doing it. Now for the Lakers I th. I think he's the pickier I think if you're trying to win he helps winning teams be good and I think that for the most part everybody else. We're going to be talking about now. Role player Esque SORTA player in the League of those guys to me. Danny Green has had the best career and like like you said it helps teams when and is still helping teams right now with the Lakers. Like he still has that ability to be a really great Toronto Championship yet. One in San Antonio. There's nothing sexy about Danny. Green's game other than he helps you on both ends of the court. Okay it's the Knicks eighth pick in the draft Jordan Hill. Not My choice now. Definitely not though you know. Jordan Hill went about where he was projected to go in the draft on draft night so it wasn't a massive massive a stretch for them. I'M GONNA go with a guy who got deemed in part in the draft because of his age coming in and that's Taj Gibson. Very good pick by the Bulls at twenty six huge part of those Typical teams and another guy. Who's still ironically with the Knicks? Now you know still still still take and still playing in the league. Even though he's got a dinosaur game with no three point shot but he's good enough defensively they can still still stay in the league. Yes but you know. Look his best year in the League. He averaged thirteen points a game. But he's a guy that has sometimes off the bed sometimes starting just come in and done done his thing and actually from some of the analytics numbers if you look at you know some of these things like warp or whatever. He's he's in the top five of the guys in in his draft class this year and that year and again we're talking about role players here and I think this was the case of a player. That was a little bit older when he went to USC that that knocked him a little bit and maybe why he falls to twenty Tisch Chicago when clearly the game was there at USC he he was really good at USC. And so that it wasn't it wasn't that wasn't the question mark. I do think it was more about his age and some background issues. That had kinda come up because of that. Yeah yeah definitely I mean the age. The age was a concern when he came out. And I think that's what pushed him down. I remember talking to somebody from Chicago right after the draft and like they felt like they stole something like the clearly. They were hot. You know they didn't just make the pick to make picks they were really high on him so they clearly they were right okay. That's the Knicks. The now we're going to go on to the Toronto. Raptors who selected Demar Rosen. Who turned out to be a great pick for them. We drafted him higher than that. Who Do you select for them at number nine? Well I'm going to get them a guy who can be a high score for them and won't shoot a lot of threes. So it'll it'll turn out a little bit the same but Tari Kevin's I know he He's out of the League now and he missed a lot of time with injuries. Five hundred ninety four career games but when he played he was good at he could score and he could set people up. Pretty good rebounder Definitely a little bit of a pounder not a great three point shooter but a really really effective ball in hand player especially you know when he got to New Orleans. It was playing sixth man role a lot. I thought he was really good at that Came to us in Memphis and had a really good year And then Kinda gone downhill from there. I just think is bodies knee. Especially just isn't isn't in great shape so I think that's that's the thing that That kind of stopped things early for him was just the physical side of it but really talented offensive player. Yeah Logitech but I think this is a point to also what they were doing at their peak levels natter and tyreek obviously that first year in Sacramento was a monster and it did go down down down down down down every year a little bit more which I you know. Obviously it was a little bit problematic and stay in until it went up again in that fourteen. Fifteen season with the PELICANS. Yeah exactly exactly. Yeah you just wonder if his His knees angles had held up better. What what that kind of trajectory would a look like? Oh and you talked a little bit about this but I forgot about that memphis season in seventeen eighteen where he went back up the nineteen points. A game yeah. Yeah yeah had a really good two thirds of a season for US then We kind of we had different priorities. The final third of the year. In a in a coincidence we ended up with the fourth. Pick in the draft aright. It's the tenth pick in the draft. The bucks are on the board. They select Brandon Jennings justifiable based off of his high school. Career had an amazing rookie. Year had had like a second week in the League at a fifty five point game right. Yeah another guy that that started and then went. Downhill right rookies. That doesn't go that way. But started high went downhill from there. I'm going to go with a guy that had a much longer career in the league with Atlanta and with Minnesota Jeff Teak. Yeah absolutely. Yeah there's kind of an kind of an underrated career when you look at me. And I saw a lot of his career in personnel sleep but didn't really play much as I two years and then got pressed into service and those twenty eleven playoffs against a really good bull's team and showed almost right away that he should have been playing the whole time and and was You know just just really quick slippery off the dribble very good making short range runners and floaters And really was able to use that to You know got the All Star game on that Atlanta team that wants sixteen two thousand fifteen Just had a really nice nice career at a really good year in Indiana. The one year And then you know he's kind of probably on the downslope now but put together a really nice career and one of the knocks on him. Coming into the League was that he couldn't shoot and and he on it. He was never like an elite three point shooter but for his career average thirty six points or thirty six percent from the field had a urine Atlanta where he shot forty percent from three. Yeah yeah the three. Yeah I mean you saw. The delivery was kind of a low line. Drive thing but he got it to work and again where teague was always kind of like maybe like middle of the pack starter in the NBA for like five eight years like he was top fifteen. Maybe top twenty point guard. Yeah and the League Starting Point Guards. But that's that's something and and he still playing right now Though I think he is definitely on the decline and he's back in Atlanta yes yes h be interesting to see where he ends up next year. Let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead. It's hard to find the time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. You can't read or work on personal development. There is an incredible APP that solves this problem and I highly recommend it. It's called blinking. Blinking is really unique and it works on your phone. Your tablet or your web browser blankets takes the best key takeaways. 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Check them out with blink you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condensed nonfiction books all the books you want and all for a low price right now for a limited time. Blinking has a special offer just for our audience. Go to blinking dot com slash. Nba Try it for free for seven days and save twenty five percent on your new subscription. That's blinking spelled. B L I N can I S. T. BLINKING DOT COM SLASH NBA to start your free seven-day trial and you'll save twenty five percent off but only when you sign up on blinks dot com slash NBA Chad Ford's NBA. Big Board of the lockdown. Podcast network brought to you by bill bar where redrafting the two thousand nine NBA draft. The Nets are on the clock. They selected Terrance Williams out of Louisville. That did not work did not work out for them. Major talent major red flags. Yeah and and everybody knew that coming in. And they gambled at eleven. The talent was going to work itself out over the red flags and they. They bet wrong yup well. I'm going to help them here with that. Bet going to give them a player who wasn't drafted at all. I knew this was coming from Marquette University. Wesley Matthews career. Thirty eight point three percent three point shooter very good. Defender could probably have even even better arches career if he hadn't torn his Achilles in two thousand fifteen But still good enough to start for the best in the league this year in Milwaukee at the age of thirty three Just put together a really nice career in started started a. I'm sorry I slowly started. Forty eight played all eighty two games as an UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT WITH UTAH's rookie year. It is why does he slip out of the draft is the question mark for him because it wasn't like he was a bad college player at far from it. Yeah Yeah and he was an unknown. I mean I guess there were there wasn't the you see like you didn't have a sexy game but my goodness. I the I mean the one thing I will say he never really shot well in college and turned out to be a much better shooters pro. You look at it as sophomore year. He Shot Twenty eight percent from three. Yes junior year. Shot thirty one percent from three. He did up up his shot. Total is senior year. Shot thirty six. Almost thirty seven percent from three his free throw shooting should have given us some indication. He was eighty three percent free. Throw shooter yet that time. But here's a senior at Marquette averaged eighteen points a game that season shot thirty seven percent from three goes undrafted. Wow this was actually. This is probably the moment. Maybe we're going to select another undrafted guy. I don't think yeah. But there's there was a lot of good undrafted players in the strategy yet. They're sure was Joe English Aron Baynes Garrett Temple Okay Charlotte Hornets on the clock. Bay selected elected Gerald Henderson. That will not be my pick. I'M GONNA go with Darren Collison. Yeah really solid career. In a L- he's flirted with coming back to the League like Multiple Times. 'cause it wasn't like he was bad You know all the sudden yeah. He started for the Pacers in eighteen. Nineteen there were playoff. Ta Seventy six games and then just retires and and one of the things about him. You'll look at that. Three point shooting ends up. Averaging thirty nine percent as a three point shooter his two thousand seventeen eighteen season he led the league in three point percentage at forty seven percent from three. Yeah yeah really good really good. Shooter nearly went fifty. Forty Ninety is last year at UCLA. Missed by a few percentage points on threes and free throw and was also an elite athlete. He was small and I think was the big the big question mark about his game but it was quick. Elite athlete could really shoot the basketball made. Great decisions was a low turnover guy his entire his entire career. Nothing like super sexy about his game but man I I had a hard time actually selecting between him and Jeff teague because similar trajectories right. There were just good good kind of second tier starters for a long time. Okay that is tyler or sorry. Drew Hot not neither. That is Darren Collison off the Board at twelve. There's a lot of point guards. This draft Indiana Pacers on the clock at thirteen. They selected tyler hands. Bro The most Indiana Pacer Guy. Ever the most irritating players to other players ever play the game. I agree with that. Yeah maybe Intel Grayson Allen came along jess tough nosed bowl and a China shop basketball player. I don't think he's going to be your pick parrot there now even though I feel bad depriving Indiana of the Tyler. Hanbro experience because I think they quite enjoyed it. Well except for the for the basketball playing part right Do you gotta sell at thirteen. I got a guy who went undrafted and did not come to the NBA until he was aged twenty seven. I'm going to take Joe. Ingles I think finding Starting threes. Who can handle the ball and make plays and shoot is one of the hardest things in the league and he can do all that and I think he's still got a lot of runway left on his career. Were a lot of these other guys are talking about. The book is pretty much closed so would be really interesting to see how his career would a turned out if you come to the NBA earlier agree with that as well and he's been an amazing success story for the jazz and I'm sure jazz fans everywhere. are are cheering right now that that you recognize them because I think he often kind of goes under recognized because of the way he plays the game in the role that he plays as a as a glue guy that that hold so much together but just a really phenomenal story at twenty seven near right might be a ticker to hire on our board. Had he come into the League earlier I'm also at fourteen now? The Sun's Gonna. Select the player that took a few years to get here but when he got here made an impact especially on the defensive end. Patrick Beverley yet out of Arkansas. I watched this young man workout pre-draft and was really deeply impressed with the tenacity. The work ethic he goes overseas gets shot in the league and really makes a mark for himself as as really an an elite defender and a starting point guard starting really a second season that he's in the League for Houston for a number of years and then has kept that going with the Los Angeles Clippers offensively. You know his game. It is what it is. He's not a major score but he actually shockingly turned out to be a really good three point shooter. Yeah I mean the offensive end. The ball was always going to be the question with him and he ended up being adequate enough at the point. Especially if he had another wing could handle the ball. And then a really almost a knockdown guy at this point. Thirty eight percent career from three So and that's enabled him to stay on the floor for his defense where he's obviously a huge test and has overcome or came at pretty serious knee injury in two thousand seventeen to still play that role for the Clippers cut by Miami and twenty eleven year. They lost to in the finals. And You wonder if the he could use him in that that that first year they had that team together. Okay well that's our that's our two thousand nine NBA redraft. Let's talk about a couple of players that we didn't select some good players we didn't take while starting Mills Patty Mills. We didn't select pylon. Yeah he's had a long NBA career. We didn't select Former Memphis Grizzlies. Great Demari Carol was not selected. The MARQUEL was selected. James Johnson's had a long career another Memphis grizzly Garrett temple. We're talking to emphasis grizzlies. Israeli legend Omri Caspi another grizzly which I will hear about nick. Nick Nick late this to a great great overseas career for him only two years in the NBA of guys here. This this was. This was a really really good draft ty ty Lawson Had A really great five year stretch and Denver Before the wheels kind of came off of that one. So let's let's talk about just a couple of people that what happened. We talked about to be enough. Is there anything you want to add to what happened why he didn't succeed in the NBA? I don't think he'd like basketball. I think I see I think this was that and that red flag was coming out really early on in the pre-draft process that this went he he was. He was playing basketball because he was seven. Three Yeah exactly. And and that means you're not gonNA put in the work and effort but I also think there was limitations to his game as well though he certainly had the size. Johnny Flynn. I think we talked about that. I mean th the hip was such a factor. I mean I I think I think he probably would have been something clear clearly. They botched the pick. He shouldn't have gone that highly but it wasn't crazy to take him in the first round like I think it would have been something in the League Jordan Hill. Yeah just never just never really took off from his initial position. Right is the skillset never really developed beyond just an interior guy yet. One season with the Lakers average double digits. Two Thousand Fourteen two thousand fifteen twelve point seven point nine points a game and then two years later he was out of the League Not Not like a bust bust. No but they didn't really they didn't really get anything out of it either though yeah it just. He wasn't. In our top fourteen a mistake Brandon Jennings started red hot. What happened to Brandon Jennings well tooth at one tours Achilles obviously but even so More of just a shoot. I point guard and wasn't a great shooter He was capable of getting really hot. But the the overall shooting package wasn't that threatening and so I think that that limited really what what his contribution was going to be is third year in the League average nineteen points a game and his fifth year in the League. Average almost eight assists the game and so again. There is game for sure Brandon Jennings had game but I think those shooting limitations hurt him and maybe a little bit of a me first attitude. Yeah for that was also difficult to rectify. What happened to Tyler Hands Bro? Why wasn't he the stars so many people you know the game game change too though? I mean you see that with a lot of bigs that were drafted in this time period. That the that the game changed to a point where they were excluded from it had a great nickname though psycho t. Yeah and it was it was it was apt to it was at all right. You've been listening to the two thousand nine. Nba Redraft with John Hollinger. We will be back next week. Redrafting the two thousand seventeen NBA draft. We're GONNA have a lot of debates here because a lot of talented players in this was young still a very young draft. Hope you tune in next week you've been listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board of locked on podcasts. That were off.

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Coronavirus in the NBA

The Crossover NBA Show with Chris Mannix

22:40 min | 6 months ago

Coronavirus in the NBA

"You know it is unfortunate piece. Sports illustrated's Kris Maddox podcast goal. And this is the crossover. Nba Show freaking go. Hey He's here to break down the league now he's inaccurate. That's probably true. That's fair but make a game of it. Just take a drink. Every time manic says I was dead wrong. I'm solving problems. Now here's your host. These guys are going to run into the ground. Chris Chris Welcome back to other episode of the Crossover. Nba podcast the first podcast. We have recorded in the new world where NBA basketball has come to a halt along with all the other sports going on in the world the NBA. Just this past week. Choosing to suspend its season in the aftermath of a positive corona virus tests for jazz senator Rudy Gobert the aftermath of that positive test. We found out that. Go bears teammate. Donovan Mitchell he tested positive corona virus in the aftermath of that we learned that Christian would the Ford for the Detroit Pistons. He tested positive as well. So three known cases of Corona virus in the NBA which has grinded the NBA to a halt sports world to a halt as well. And there's not a lot of information that we have right now. I'M GONNA try to get you some more information on how this virus pertains the NBA. Just a couple minutes. I'll be joined by Dr Salim Founder. Who's an expert in factious diseases? You've probably seen her on. Cnn in the last couple of weeks. She's a very bright person when it comes to this field and she'll try to enlighten us on everything kind of has to do with the NBA and the corona virus but this is a challenging time from a basketball perspective. I don't know where we go from here. I can tell you from talking to a variety of league sources in the last couple of days there is certainly hope that the NBA season can be salvaged the NBA certainly is bracing for the possibility of playing in the summertime that has emerged as the best case scenario starting the season sometime mid June ending the season sometime in August. But nobody really knows at this point. We're sort of in this area. Era Uncertainty when it comes to the NBA. We don't really know when the league will get started again. We know a little bit about the time line right. We know that over the next eight weeks. We are definitely not going to see. Nba Basketball the CDC has declared that no crowds greater than fifty can be convened that effectively takes all NBA basketball off the table. Even if you consider the possibility that they might play in empty arenas there's no way you can get to under fifty with everything that goes into the production of an NBA game. That's put on television. Which is the only reason you'd bring? Nba Basketball back into the mix. So we are at least at mid May and then I guess we're kind of in a wait and see period though there's a lot of people in the League office that would love to get early salvage some form of the regular season. I would imagine when the League does come back. They're going to need to have some form of a mini training camp. You can't just take these athletes who the NBA officially told can go home and away from their home markets. You can't take these athletes at bringing right back into a playoff race. You probably have to have some kind of training camp short regular season if nothing else you can have the teams that are competing for playoff seeding. Even the playoffs themselves. Start to go at it a little bit towards the very end. So that's something to keep your eye on as well now. One thing I am curious about and I'm gonNA write a little bit about this. I think towards the end of the week in some ways the NBA can come back. This is an opportunity. I think for the lead to collect some pretty valuable data. Steve Kuhnen. Who's an executive with the Atlanta Hawks? He has suggested the idea of starting the NBA season. Around Christmas time. Now that season starting then would extend the league all the way to June playoffs in the summertime and for years that was kind of viewed as a terrible idea largely because television networks wouldn't want. Nba Basketball played deep in the summertime. The thinking being well summer months people don't stay home as much. You're not gonNA get good ratings. They'll take a hit and networks clearly. Don't WanNa do that you. I've talked to a number of different television executives who really don't buy that theory who think that viewing habits have evolved so much in recent years that you will see people staying home and watching the ratings won't take a hit so if the NBA comes back and if the ratings don't take a hit that might be just kind of pushed the NBA needs to change their schedule radically to go full-time Christmas Day start June finish playoffs over the summertime because there's plenty of arguments for playing playoff games in the summertime right. There's no competition. All you have is baseball and regular season baseball. I don't know many of you have watched regular season baseball. It's pretty fucking boring is what it is so. I think that's a good opportunity for the NBA two to seize control of summer months when they're not competing with football when they're not competing with college basketball when they're not competing with the NHL they would have the summer to themselves with baseball serving as the only competition so I'd be very interested to see if the NBA can come back if they can. If the data shows that viewership is up and maybe opens the door for summer basketball to become a full-time thing. I'm actually all for it on a personal level. I know there's some people out there and I've talked many of you. That are not fans of playing basketball in the summer of being in the gym in the summer a lot of people want their summer vacation. I get all that but I think it's pretty cool to have NBA basketball. Be The only thing on the landscape and on a personal level. I really don't mind having like September and October off. I'm good with that. I'll go to football games if that's what it takes so I'm with the idea of starting the season around Christmas better for ratings and they'd be better for everybody involved. If that's the way you go a couple of basketball things you know. We're not at that point yet but if the NBA comes back. I'm very curious to see how it affects players right. You have say like The Philadelphia Seventy sixers. For example the seventy six to a struggled all season long it seemed like their entire year was headed down the drain with the injury to Ben Simmons. Joel embiid has been banged up. What happens if you give that team a month? Two months off injuries heal and they all come back and maybe the chemistry gets a little bit better with some little time to reflect. Is that a team. That could still put it together and make a run. How ABOUT IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE? The Lakers when this whole thing shut down they were playing their best basketball of the season they were coming off. Wins over the bucks over the clippers. They look like world-beater when the game came to a stop. Are they able to regain all that? Momentum can Lebron James at thirty five years old here. We go questioning. Lebron James Again can Lebron at thirty five years old. Rip Up that engine one more time for a playoff run. I think these are reasonable basketball questions that I'm sure going to ask the next couple of months. If this corona virus epidemic slowly starts to recede somewhat one of the things specific to the jazz and to really go bare at Donovan Mitchell. I reported on Friday that Mitchell was extremely frustrated with with go bear and with the situation. Utah feeling right this time but you know. Look if you're Donovan. Mitchell Gobert tests positive Gobert by his own admission reckless inside. That locker room careless with how he behaved. And how treated the whole notion of the corona virus out of the Mitchell went on Good Morning America and in response to a question of whether he's talked Rodrigo Bear. He said this now. Mitchell didn't say he was upset with Gobert. I interpreted that as basically confirmation for everything that I wrote about the relation between the two and one thing to watch moving forward. Is Ken that relationship be salvaged? These are two key players on one of the better young teams and basketball go bare Mitchell. Joe ingles these are. These are good players. The core members of this team by Conley's in that mix roy so neil a lot of good players jazz team. They have underachieved this year. A dealt with a variety of problems my colleagues chemistry my colleagues injuries. Whole lot stuff. That's to do with Mike Conley but what bears watching this season and beyond is just how upset Donovan Mitchell is I mean. He's a great guy people that no one. He's a terrific person trick teammate. I can certainly see him getting past this but as you heard him say needed some time to kind of cool the jets a little bit and get over some stuff and that's something that certainly bears watching for now though don't even think about the NBA coming back anytime soon. The NBA is in a holding pattern the NBA is only going to come back when medical experts tell them it is safe to comeback. They're not going to rush this thing back if for no other reason than they would take a huge hit if they ultimately tried to so the NBA is going to be on ice. Probably until June at the earliest. So Hunker Down Watch. Some old highlights watchable videos. I saw a lot of players out there on social media talking about how. They're watching youtube videos. I'm watching a lot of players right now. If you haven't seen the video of John Mirant doing a self introduction at home wearing full jersey. I recommend going to find it but these guys are going a little stir crazy little hay fever being at home this often. So they'll this is going to go on for the future where it's GonNa have to get used to life without sports and without NBA basketball when we come back. My conversation with Dr Salim. Ghandour an expert in this field. She'll enlighten us on what this disease means for the NBA. What means for sports her reaction to how the NBA in Sports Leagues handled this whole situation. We talked to Dr Selene. Ghandour when we come back Dr Salim Gander is an infectious disease specialist. You can see her on as a contributor host of the epidemic podcast and she's also become a friend of the podcast network as we try to navigate all the news coming out about the corona virus. And kind enough to join me on this podcast together. Thanks for joining me. Hey Chris I guess first off. I want to do a lot of basketball specific stuff. But we're recording this in the wake of the White House holding what I thought was one of the more. I guess. Ominous press conferences in recent weeks where it seemed like everyone including the president was taking the corona virus. Very seriously. Let me ask you first. What were you takeaways from the press conference? Well I think the tone was quite sober. But think it was right on point Tony vouches as usual has been able to be very level. Headed about how serious the situation is. But at the same time you know not Inducing panic and I think that's really important. I think another important message is that we yes. We have not been as proactive as we could have been. We could have moved more quickly but we still are at the tipping point right now where things could head the direction of South Korea or they can have the direction of Italy and what we do today. We did yesterday. What we do tomorrow will really determine the course of that so I would really caution against being overly cynical and overly pessimistic because that also leads to resignation and not trying as hard as we should. This is really our last chance and wait and we really need to be focused on that right now so the NBA was the first of the major sports leagues to suspend play based entirely on the fact that they had the first player in the four major sports leagues test positive in Rudy. Go Bear Just just watching from afar. What have you made of the NBA's response the response of Sports Leagues? In general. I think in general. They've done the right thing. I think that by saying you know what it's it's not safe to play even without fans in the stadium Is the right thing. Not just for their fans but for their own players and their families and I think really understanding that we all need to be part of this social distancing thing or won't work as long as you have an exception for this an exception for that. There are too many loopholes. There's too many holes in the system and it's just not gonNA function. You mentioned that. Use The word Proactiv early on and you fall. This outbreak from the very beginning should sports. Leagues have been more proactive. And I guess not waited for a positive test or one of the players to do what they did. You know that's hard to say And I think part of the problem is there's been a vacuum of leadership for others to follow. I don't think this is something that you can expect. Sports Leagues to figure out all on their own. And I think part of what's happened is they have been looking to others. You know what our colleagues doing. What are other is another You know fields of business doing and in the absence of really clear leadership from the top You know I think that that created some issues Donovan. Mitchell from the Utah Jazz. He was he was on. Good Morning America this week. He said he feels fine. The always feels fine. I mean He. He was ready to play the night the NBA kind of stood still and Mitchell's is a guy who plays a lot of minutes. You can play. You can play six degrees of separation with Mitchell's team. The Utah Jazz from teams that they played to playing teams that they played NBA players. They travel a lot of places. They stand a lot. Hotels they ride a lot of buses. Eat a lot of restaurants I know. Testing is limited but do you think all NBA players should be tested given what we know about the fact that three of them tested positive. I think we're really focusing our testing efforts on contacts so one degree of separation away from a case so somebody who's been directly in contact not contacts of context context. There you know I think at that point. You're you're really. You're not allocating the few tests that we have available still right now to the right people and you know the risk is still fairly low. So sort of like We sort of changed our perspective with the president's own exposure The original exposures at CPAC were a couple degrees of separation. Away did not warrant testing. And then later he was known to have direct contacts. And I'm not sure if that's what spurred the decision but he was tested at that point which was the right thing to do So especially in the absence of symptoms. You you really don't WanNa be testing people at least at this stage unless they have no contact there's been some criticism of NBA NBA players of getting so many tests. Right the Utah Jazz. They got fifty eight tests in a short period of time. And I there's been a lot of stuff on social media or elsewhere where people saying. How come they got all these tests? Why you know. Why are they first in line? What's your reaction to that? I do have some concerns. I don't know if you heard the conversation today about Access to ventilators and governors speaking with the president about you know what's going to be the system for that and essentially it sounds like it's something of a free for all. I think when you do not Again PROVIDE LEADERSHIP. When you don't say okay. Here are the criteria This is how we're going to prioritize these people for these reasons for you know and hopefully those of you scientifically based reasons. Then you do end up with these kinds of situations where the highest bidder. The person who can pay the most you know able to get into manage. What do you think I guess what from what I understand? The Oklahoma state health officials took the lead on on the jazz testing and their explanation was we had to find out how many players were infected with basic back trace their movements them being the first positive test case in Oklahoma City. What do you think of that response? Well I mean the normal thing would be to do contact tracing But then in terms of how to allocate the tests you know to really focus those tests on again the direct contact of the diagnosed cases. That would be the standard of care in the situation. So I know this is really hard to map out but the obvious question that NBA Fan. Sports fans get our. When can they play? When is it? Is it going to be safe? I know it's a broad question. But where do you think we're headed in the next two months? I think things as Dr Faustus himself has said will get worse before they get better and I think a lot depends on all of us as to how we rally in band together and do what we need to do. Not just to protect ourselves but to protect each other and that's really what will determine when players go back to play when the economy starts to pick up again. It's really about what we decided to do. You know the NBA. Before the Rudy Gobert test was leaning towards a situation where they would play an empty arenas and that was kind of the. Most favoured approach by a lot of the the NBA owners Under what circumstances would you see that as being acceptable? Well if you can guarantee that everybody on the team essentially functions as their own quarantine unit you could say their social distancing unit. You know today they were talking about Units of ten which I kind of think of as maybe a family and some extended relatives or some really close friends in that no one goes in or out of that bubble that circle of trust so to speak And if you can guarantee that you know then I think that would be feasible. The problem is you're going to have people who I don't know they're dating somebody new or they are going out to eat or getting takeout or the housekeeper who comes into their room to clean or there's GonNa there's just especially with a team that size earth too many opportunities for there to be a breach in that bubble. Yeah so I mean do you think that we're you know we look at Sports Leagues like the NBA Nhl? Which are suspending up. Until this point I mean as you look ahead. Do you think there's any chance they'll be able to resume seasons. Yeah I hesitate to prognosticate on that one because I think some of the decision making is not just going to be about Risk of transmission. I think some of it will be about you. Know economic decisions financial decisions pressure from fans and so on and you know time will tell and if that happens will all it'll also be interesting to see how that does play out. How TEAMS DECIDE TO CONTROL RISK? And if they do have any further cases depending on what they do. Yeah I mean I would imagine that I mean from an NBA perspective. Like the worst case. Scenario would probably be you come back after two and a half months and another player test positive which I would assume given the way it's trending is not wouldn't be a complete shock right. I mean that that's what I would expect what happened And then that would sort of reinforce that it's too soon. Do you feel like we're again. These are tough question to answer given what we don't know but large crowds gathering again. I know at this point. We're down to what fifty and even ten in with CD's recommending. But are we even though the two months that they recommended under fifty a we even well far off our would you think from being able to allow large crowds or be you'll save with arch browsing well? I think some of that depends inside versus outside for sure But even outside if you're close enough that you're having contact with other people directly if you're within six feet of each other if you're touching things in common. Maybe it's the bleachers. Maybe it's a you know water fountain whatever it is. You know the bathroom That still is a risk factor for for transmission. The last thing would ask you about is just a General Way. The best advice you would have for people that are listening to what they can do to slow the spread. This virus say keep calm number one This is not the end of the world. This is something that is manageable but we all have to really commit to doing that together. I think you know. Being forced to stay home with friends and family will hopefully. It's actually just your family but you know I think that's not a the worst thing to sort of reevaluate and other ways. How fortunate we are and I. I do recognize that that the the impact of staying home and so on when I can still work and my husband can still work despite. That is is very different. One but I think it's really important to also be looking out for those us who for whom that's harder In every way that we can this surprise you kind of given all the information that we have that we're still seeing large gatherings whether it's at beaches or even nightclubs in certain places it surprises me In it deeply concerns me Because it's not just again about protecting ourselves. It's about protecting all of us and if you contribute to transmission even if you don't get really sick you're still part of that chain and you're still part of that fire that's burning through everybody else and you know that that's going to be very harmful. I wonder too if NBA players could even be an inspiration to some people. Donovan Mitchell. Is You know he. I think he said this week. That could have played. He's ready to play at seven game basketball series right now so it kind of shows that You know symptoms are certainly not part of contracts disease. I think that's a great point. And it's a great way to show their caring for their own fans. you know whether you're a basketball player a politician. I think to sort of stand alongside. The rest of us who are doing. This is really important. And that's a great show of leadership question Dr Gandara. I really appreciate you taking the time to join me here as we we. Nba Fans got a search for answers as everybody's so anxious know what's next Sports World. Thank you very much for your time. My pleasure thank you Dr. I really appreciate it. Okay we'll send me a link when it's up edged okay.

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Ep 2: NBA RE-DRAFT 2014

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:00:04 hr | 6 months ago

Ep 2: NBA RE-DRAFT 2014

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast. Network enjoy chat. You are listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board on the lockdown network. I'm your host Chad Ford and I'm with John Hollinger senior writer for the athletic and Co host of Hollinger and Duncan on the locked on network. John and I used to collaborate on. Espn DOT COM and a number of projects including the future power rankings and a load of NBA draft analysis before he joined the Memphis Grizzlies as vice president of basketball operations. He's the winner of a lifetime. Achievement Award from the Sloan. Analytics comforts a pioneer in bringing advanced statistical analysis to the NBA including inventing his statistic P. E. R. Player efficiency ranking. John Brings not only a keen eye for evaluating talent and proven analytical approach to scouting the draft but his seven years in NBA front offices between two thousand twelve or two thousand nineteen. Give him a load of behind the scene stories to tell as well welcome aboard John. Thanks Chad I hope I can live up to that intro. It's great to be working together again after all these years though. Yeah I really missed it and you know one of the things that that I always loved about John was you. You took analytics basketball analytics in digestible for people like me. That really were scared of math. And you really entertaining. You're really fantastic rider to have you back riding again with the athletic as well. There was there was a lot of wit involved and I think we need more of when we're when we're diving into analytics and metrics as well thank you. Thank you well especially in these times right. Yeah and you know it's interesting to to start an NBA draft podcast win. It's not even clear that there's going to be an NBA draft or when it's going to be or how it's going to function and there's so much uncertainty in the air right now for NBA teams. And it's it's going to be a different world so much of the scouting process that NBA teams typically go through. It looks like it's GonNa be impossible this year to do it. Oh absolutely yeah. I mean all already lost basically the entire conference tournaments which is usually the first the first big kind of event in what you'd call scouting season you know as we go through and we go through the conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament and Portsmouth and the combine and the Hoop Summit and all those events Jordan clydes all that out so it's a brave new world not to mention that a number of the top prospects of this year's draft weren't playing college basketball or were injured or overseas or had a number of other other issues as well that this may be the most challenging NBA draft to ever Scout Young. You know the worst part Chad is going to lose those agent workouts because really when you watch these guys do poster. Dunks over five eight trainers. That's when you really find out who can play on and start killing agents right now. They're going to going to boycott the podcast right at the very beginning. Here we go. Wells are getting you in trouble already. John and I had this idea that while we're in limbo waiting for day. Nba draft process. Whatever it's going to be to to really kick-start we would look back look back at a number of NBA drafts. That have occurred over the last decade. Or so and and bring a twenty twenty hindsight view to this as well and so we thought. Look for the next few months. We're GONNA take a deep dive back in the past. Nba Drafts explore what the NBA got right. Also we got right. Both of us were working on those drives in one one function or the other what we got wrong. And we're going to do it. In the form of a mock draft so each of us is going to rotate making picks based on on hindsight what should have happened on draft night and will include with each pick analysis of Y. The current players should go there as well as why a player may have been over under ranked in the draft process. I'm hoping John and I can also bring some insider insight into what was actually going on in the draft process with some of these players both from my reporting and and for many years that we're going to tackle. John was working in the Front Office for the Grizzlies. And so he had access to two player interviews medical records. Just a number of other things that weren't necessarily public and we're going to start with the two thousand fourteen NBA draft. I mean we could've started in a lot of different places and we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA bounce around but wanted to start there because there was huge hype around this draft. This was as excited as I'd seen. Nba teams and scouts in a while. When you thought about before before the college basketball season started just sort of coming into the draft. There is Andrew wiggins there was Jabari Parker to super highly ranked high school basketball players. With a ton of hype. Joel embiid burst onto the scene at Kansas. And really from the get go. You could see that he was going to be a special in a dominant. Nba Big Man. There was players like Aaron Gordon Anzac Levin. Who even back. Then we knew we were going to be competing titles for NBA dunk championships. And just were exciting players. Julius randle was a big time high school Stud Marcus. Smart at Oklahoma state had incredible electric energetic passionate season and a lot of people fell in love with them and then there was even players like Dario sorry to overseas who had really become an international sensation and it was one of those international prospects. That was already actually getting significant. Playing time overseas. There was a lot to be excited about in this in this draft and it didn't really turn out to be the draft that we all thought it was going to be in fact after you move past the first couple of guys. Maybe you could even argue that. That was a bit of a disappointment. How are you looking at the two thousand fourteen draft John before it all started before we got all the scouting and everything else? Just the initial. Just just just the initial take on the draft. Yeah I mean so. This was my first full season with the grizzlies because I had started in December the year before we were really excited about the talent that was in the draft and we actually we we two point that we traded for an early second round. Pick not even knowing who we were GONNA take. We thought there was that much value in the draft that we knew it'd be able to get somebody so in the can't remember if we did it in the hours leading up to the draft while the first-round was going on we traded for the thirty and so usually make you like that when when number thirty five comes up we made it ahead of time just because we felt like we. There were so many guys that we like. We knew we were going to get someone we like. And I think everyone thought that way about this draft and even like right from the get-go one too. It's like well wiggins Parker. It's like what they would would value. We get from that and there was a weird draft though because there was actually a lot of good value late. Probably the deepest draft in my tenure with the grizzly certainly and maybe go back even further. I mean there was a lot of quality to be having this draft in the thirties and forties. And you'll see it as we go through our mom all right. I think that's a good good segue into the mock. I'm just going to give you a brief rundown if for for listeners. That can't remember what happened. We're only going to. We're only gonNA mock the lottery so let's just look at what actually happened on on draft night the Cleveland Cavaliers. Have the number one pick in the draft. They selected Andrew Wiggins. I think at the time everyone felt. That was a no brainer. He was the best best choice. Especially after Joel. Embiid was injured right during the draft process and there is deep concerns about his back. Milwaukee selected number two and they they selected Jabari Parker out of Duke Philadelphia. The seventy sixers had the third pick in the draft and for the third straight year. They selected a center. Joel embiid and a guy that was probably not going to play his his rookie year. The magic selected fourth and they took Aaron Gordon. The jazz selected fifth. Took Dante exum out of Australia. The Celtics six pick six pick in the draft and selected. Marcus smart out of Oklahoma State. The Lakers selected seventh. Julius randle out of Kentucky the Kings Oh the kings with the pick in the draft. Took KNICKS DOUSE? Carr's a player. Who THREATENED TO NOT PLAY? Didn't work out there and did not want to play with the Kings at eight the Charlotte Hornets at nine. Selected Noah von Lay. The seventy sixers had the tenth pick in the draft ended up trading it but they had offered Peyton at ten and traded him to the Orlando Magic for the twelfth. Pick in the draft. Dario Saric the eleventh pick in the draft was Doug McDermott. Who was traded to the Chicago? Bulls? Denver had that eleventh pick. The twelfth picked as we said was Dario Sarah to ended up with the seventy sixers the thirteenth pick in the draft was the Minnesota Timberwolves. Zach Levine and the fourteenth pick was the Phoenix Suns with TJ warring. So that's how it went on draft night. I don't think either of US think that's how it should have went on draft night all these years later. John you've got the first pick in the draft you're the Cleveland Cavaliers. You know that Lebron James. Maybe maybe flirting with returning from the Miami Heat to Cleveland. That was the sort of the buzz and the scenario around draft night right that Lebron was leaning and I think the cavs had a fairly good idea at that point that they might be getting him back. You have the first pick in the draft. Who Do you select the first pick in the draft? Let me let me Undo My biggest regret from my time in Memphis we had that thirty fifth pick and we could have gone for an international stash player. And if we had done that the international stash Larry would have taken was somewhat blubbery Serbian Center. Who liked to ride horses and people weren't totally sure if you like basketball or not. But he was seen pretty skilled and better and that definitely turned out to be the case. Oh you're coli yokich would be my choice. Choosing between him and like Joel is probably the other player you could discuss here in my opinion and Yoga just played nearly twice as many career gains. So you know this ability is availability like they say and his played a fairly similar level. You could argue. It's been the better player when he's been healthy but I think just the overall quantity production by Yokich really makes him the top choice here. He slides the forty one. Yeah the nuggets themselves had two picks maybe three. I think they have three Ashley. Had they traded Dermot to get two picks right so they had Gary Harris they selected Merkich. I can't remember if they had another one in the second round ahead and also it's not like the nuggets mailed this right like they passed on him themselves twice to get him. Why why wasn't Yokich rated higher? I mean it was clear really from day one when he got to the NBA. This was going to be a special. Nba Player. You talked about him being blubbery. I know there was a lot of concern about what position he could. He defend a position in the NBA. Was it pretty much this guy? That didn't look like he was in shape in really big question marks about where he was going to defender how he's going to defend in the NBA. Yeah they're adapted a lot of question marks about him it's ending and would you just pick pick them roam to pieces and you remember. He played the Hoop Summit that year. And he had some buzz coming in and didn't have a great week and I think that kind of push some people often him you know. It's funny though I I went to see him in Serbia after the hoop summit and I mean. He's just so skill that he took a boy. You don't have any kind of like. Lopes up the port with the ball doesn't look like he's going that fast. Or whenever he took a rebound just it was the end of a quarter and just shot a pull up from half court and and made the shot at the Buzzer. But you know what I mean. Shot it like almost like a regular shot which is like Lua expression doesn't change all the same stuff he does now and so yeah. I kick myself over that I mean that was the one move of that whole era that really could change things potentially borough us. I mean there's other stuff well we could have done x we could have done. Why would maybe change things at the margins but this is the one thing that could achieve things like a lot. We ended up with him. You know it's really interesting because all the prejudices of Scouts Working Against Yokich right now. Right like athleticism fast twitch ability to defend a position work ethic and we want to talk about work ethic you know you look at his body is. The Sky. Spent a minute in the gym conditioning. Does he really care about playing MBA? But there's always this these old time scouts who say the stain there either a baller. They're not either know how to play the game or they don't and that part was always clear. Yokich really really knew how to play the game basketball IQ off the charts as my co worker. Ethan Strauss sometimes says fat has potential in disguise K that is potential disguised. That's a nice a nice day if the cavs but you know the interesting thing about all this is the cavs drafted him and there's no way they would have. I mean anyone who took them in the water you would have been limited if they draft him number one. They're still trading him to get Lebron James. No it was it was to get to get Kevin love though right right. It was to get a player to pair with Lebron James that gave them a real shot at winning championship. And that wasn't going to be Yokich. Yeah and so you know this he probably would have ended up on the timber wolves. Interestingly interestingly enough okay number two Milwaukee Bucks had the chance to take Joel embiid number two they. They shied away from it. Pretty quickly. There was there was so much concern about health with Joel embiid. I think everybody knew the talent there and I and I think while it didn't really happen right away in the season. I think that you could argue by the by the draft the consensus among NBA teams and scouts was the NBA was the best prospect in the draft from a basketball standpoint. But there was concerns about the back and I remember getting the call after he got. You're right that's interesting. You mention that because everyone talks about the foot but there was also the the back at the time that was. That was yeah. They got people really really scared right. And Yeah and it was really interesting talking to him talking to his agent. I remember I was actually at a board meeting when I got the emergency call of that. He was injured. And you know as a reporter. You're walking the thin line you don't if there's anything you don't WANNA get wrong. It's a medical issue right like you don't want to put out something that's going to hurt a player at without it being confirmed and and it took a while to get his team his agent and his team to really sort of confirm what was going on and so there was this there. Was this big challenge. Do you draft the guy who may not play for you His rookie season. Who was a bit of a newcomer to the game? And so didn't have the same sort of pedigree that Jabari Parker did or Andrew Wiggins. I did as well do you. Draft where do you draft in? Where does the reward outweigh the risk and the and the bucks were not particularly at risk takers at the time though they took you on us onto Toco year before? But that was a very different scenario. I mean in all fairness to John Hammond. Who's one of my favorite people in the NBA. John Hammond had no idea that Yana Santa Tacoma was going to be the MVP of the NBA. A few years later and really their initial plan was they. They really didn't think he'd play it all his first year that he would be a D. League player. And so I think with that in two thousand thirteen. They ended up planum in new. They had something for sure. They knew that they had something special by the end of his rookie season. I really think they felt like they needed to pair him. With with another Sheriff Fire Star. They thought that was Jabbari. Parker that clearly wasn't right. Embiid's been amazing. He's been injured a lot but but when he's been healthy as you pointed out there's a really strong argument he was the best. He was the best player in the draft. Yeah Yeah Yeah absolutely because you get you get you get similar offensive prowess though. He's not he's not the passer and he doesn't do some of the things that you'll get does but then you get much superior defensive player than Yoga's yeah just a monstrous defender when he's when he's healthy. So yeah it's just you know it's GonNa be interesting going forward to see how many future games each of those guys has in their bodies. Because I think that's really gonNA that's GONNA end up determining who should have been number one and who shouldn't have been is just how many how many games each of these guys can play over the next five. Six years does affect turned for all at you that embiid has been historically sort of a difficult player to manage a difficult personality. If you will I mean some some people love it. It's clearly been a challenge for the seventy sixers at times integrating him from chemistry standpoint. Does that factor in at all in your decision to go Yokich. I can't say that was a big part of it. I mean the just being on the part of it was was the big deal for me. I'm talking about now I'm talking about in hindsight. Yeah you know I just think when with player that ability it's not. His issues aren't so huge. That could make it impossible for you to win or anytime. They were four ounces away from knocking. Out Toronto right right there. I just don't see him being such a big I to me. The biggest issue with that team has always been just the encore chemistry having multiple guys. Who CAN'T SHOOT IT. All and a dominant post player and trying to make that work. Well the other thing that that we have which is clear is that there's a pretty big drop off now after these two guys it it. There's there's some real players here and we're GonNa talk about some some some players that are having really Nice Mba Careers. But there's a there's a major major drop off now from this sort of franchise type of players that we've just talked about in your kitchen bead and what's coming next. So you're the seventy sixers you have the third pick in the draft embiid and you'll get your off the board. Who Do you go with this? This is actually interesting because this is where it gets a little hard because I've Gone I've gone a couple different ways on this. I actually think actually think the way might go on this even now this. This guy has not had the best career to date but I think of the players laughed. He will probably have the best career of any of these guys going forward. So I'M GONNA I'M GONNA go for Zakopane interesting okay. What's the rationale but behind me? He's still twenty. He had a really good offensive season this year. Honestly like he's a poor defender. He's on a bad team. He still makes mistakes. Takes bad shots and whatnot but offense really. He's just he's really good now shoots thirty eight percent on grade draw fouls now. He doesn't shy away from contact anymore. I mean he was he was a teenager in this draft coming off a freshman year at Ucla where he wasn't even really a good college basketball player. He was just so electrifying physically that you you saw he could become stark layer damn align league and. I think that's what happened the conversation. We had internally about him at that time was he's the guy you want to have on his second contract. Not as I one. Because he's not going to. He's going to take them a long time to become whatever he's going to be calm when he does that. Something could be pretty darn good and I think that's how it's played out. I think it has as well. I mean you know you're exactly right at UCLA. First of all he wasn't the blue chip high school prospect than there is. There's always obviously played in Seattle and Seattle doesn't Scott scouted exactly the same way and there are some prejudices going in there but he was. He was threes incredible dunks and some ball handling skills that that made him an interesting player bill. A lot of people were really thought he was going to be a bust in the draft. I I was. I was one person that liked him a lot coming into the draft. Cause you could see the potential there but it's a really great point. You had to live through some things with him before he was going to settle into being a player and obviously a question mark about whether he would settle in and but he seems to have done so and I think that's really defensible. Pick FOR THE SIXERS. And certainly if you kind of look at the personnel. That they had the time that might have been a nice fit for them as well. Though I can't imagine Brett Brown ever selecting him number three if he had any say in it you know at the time I see him screaming to High Heaven. About about Zack. Not being the guy that he would really want on his team from chemistry standpoint. Just just the sort of Culture. At least he was trying to build build their. I think Sam and others may have looked at differently. Okay it's it's the magic and I'm sort of in the same same boat as you. There's a number of players that I think that that that you could take here and I'm just not quite ready to let go of Andrew wiggins yet. Okay okay here we go. You'RE GONNA you're gonNA come after me hard right right now. I I had a bit further down my board like in the top ten you way down. I had six I. I hadn't I hadn't between Dwight Powell and both Dan Bogdonovich. Okay okay. Although I will say I will say given what I just said about. A Levine. Like wiggins leader the same age right so exactly so. Your point is defensible there. I just think wiggins hasn't really made any progress as an offense player. He's he's the same guy who was at twenty Levin has been on trajectory wiggins me. It's still the same guy just floats in and had a games ever and there's not really much shooter not really much of a playmaker could. Sorta you can get twenty points if he takes twenty shots but doesn't really do anything that kind of pushes you toward winning. Yeah get it. I get it and and I think the thing that is keeping him higher on my board is a hope that was Steve Kerr and the warriors. He's found a better home. A better fit the pressure on him to be the man and the guy the number one pick the superstar is team all of that sort of melts away now for him with a coach that I think can find a way to get the best out of him. I will say this every year you make fun of the agent workouts but every year I would go on a tour of of the top players in the draft and go down and see them working out in prepping for the draft and spending time with them and and and I walked away from my Andrew Wiggins Day with concern. I think I'm remembering right. Drew Hanlin pure sweat was was was training them at the time and drew just having to push and push and push an push and push. Andrew in the workouts and Andrew was always tired way and take breaks. Didn't want to do things wasn't a bad attitude or anything like that. It just didn't seem that that that fire that drive that hunger to get better was there and that was probably the first time I'm accused Kansas Fan. I I watched weekends I you know I really thought he was gonNA. I really thought he. He should have been the number-one pick in the draft. And I was clearly wrong about that but that was the first time that I walked away after watching that workout in wondered. Maybe this guy isn't going to put in the work that it takes to take his game to the next level and maybe that's just not not in him and certainly there's lots of anecdotal evidence. I haven't seen him workout. I have no idea what is some regiments like or anything else. Maybe he's working really really hard. But there's certainly a lot of anecdotal evidence that that that turned out to be true. It's going to be interesting to see if you can turn it around over there because now you can't just be like well. Let's the timber wolves you know. It's like in environment you know. With with Steve Kerr staff and clay and the dream on those guys around him. I mean okay. It's fifth pick. I left your guy on the board. Whoever it was I clearly clearly left him there for you and the jazz you left for me there is. I haven't good story about this one. My Swiss brother Click Cappella K. Clint Cappella. Yes by far the most career a war of any player left on the board. And he's still for young. Clint Cappella us. We we are. Actually we picked twenty third twenty second and so he was one of the players we were looking at. He went twenty fifth. Had about you talk about you. Talk sometimes about not doing workouts with guys are not doing any workouts and that might lead to better fix Liga Pella had a a train wreck of work out for us like it was so bad that I don't think anyone could possibly walked in the room and said we want to pick this guy and without being just mocked and kicked out of the room like that like it was that bad and but it was one day and I just I. That's the thing that really made me wonder about workouts. After the fact when he started to develop in Houston and start to show all the things that you know you could see in France and you could see it play to hoops. Summit that year too. I'm pretty sure he had my reckless played there. It wasn't great news. Okay wasn't great. He hurt himself there and and I think that was the theme right at. This is one of those things where you scout a player in France and and many many teams had him as a top ten pick. He comes over to the United States hoop summit workouts. He slides all the way to twenty five. I think you probably weren't the only team that had him in for a workout. That came away frustrated and questioning where they had him ranked earlier which we don't really have time to get into all this today but it's probably a subject of another podcast. You know individual workouts things like hoop summits are they do. They cause more problems than they help in scouting evaluations. And I think this is clearly an example and you know the jazz. This would be great for the jazz. Who can tell you all about rudy and having that same problem at the NBA combine and an a number of workouts and sliding from like a top five six. Pick all the way into the late twenties. There's a there's a track record especially sometimes with international players of coming over to the US in this sort of environment not showing particularly well international and team workouts and then turning out to be really good players absolutely k. Very defensible for the jazz will be back with pick six through ten on the next segment with John. Hollander you're listening to Chad. Ford's big board on the lockdown network. The following message is brought to you by Samuel Adams. We are in uncertain times across our globe. 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Stay safe stay socially distance and thank you very much for tuning into the locked podcast network. Okay we're back and we're now going we're redrafting the two thousand fourteen NBA draft. I'm here with John. Hollinger John Hollinger just selected with the fifth. Pick the Jazz Clint Capella who actually went. Twenty-fifth to the rockets. It's the six pick in the draft. This is again a bit of sentimentality. You're also going to sure you're going to walk before you pick Chad. The remaining players from the two thousand fourteen Kansas team that you can select Frank Mason Wayne Selden Andrew Wight Cherry Black and Ariel. It will not be a Kansas player. Though is very very fair to me that way. I'm going to let the Celtics. Keep the pick that they select Marcus smart from Oklahoma State. I understand that Marcus. Smart has been a very limited player especially when you think about about him from the offensive end but I still think that there's something special about smart that he brings to a team that he's brought to the Celtics over over the years that he continues to bring to the Celtics and as I look at the players that are available left to us. This is still the guy that that I would want. Want to go to war with and and I think this was a great pick by the Celtics at six and I still think it's a great pick for the Celtics Sex. Yeah that that was. That was the pick for me as well I he I mean he just makes winning. Plays all over the place and you see nine point nine career points for gang but he just does so many other things that help you win and I think to Lexin Kasama. You know you could have gone big here again. For instance with like somebody like Merkich but I do think like perimeter is worth more than frontcourt generally in today's NBA. And you have to calibrate for that a little bit and I think that's a really nice. Pick okay this will save us from Bill Simmons coming back into strain. I first podcast. So that's always that's always a plus as well. All publicity is good publicity. But I'm really really hoping that I don't get an angry angry tweet from from bill on our first one so okay. That leaves the Lakers at seven. They took Julius randle. I have a feeling you're not going to take Julius taking Julius randle. Yeah I'd say I'd say that is accurate. There's actually there's a couple of different ways I could go here. I think I think my choice here might be a little bit of a surprise and may be overrating his his last season a bit. But I think based on that he's going to be able to play this level for a few more years and that's a really highly valuable player. I'm taking TJ Warren Okay TJ Warren three point shooter who has become a good defensive player. I think Phoenix and the the environment. They're probably Hilton back quite a bit. I think he's still still. I mean even as a Collegian thing you right away as he could just get buckets one on one like it was. Nobody's fitness and just that that skilled score is is still there and score in sort of like in the flow without needing a ton of stuff run for him without needing to dominate. The ball words really added to that package is the catch and shoot three point game And then defensively. He's made so many strides in this last year in Indiana it's really impressive to see To the point where he's now a really good two way player at the three spot which is one of the hardest things to find an holy so to me that makes them more valuable than some of the other players who were four five or one to to have a good starting caliber three. That's something that everyone's looking for. They'll pay twenty million dollars in free agency so I think TJ warrants ought to be the choice here. It's a great choice It's had him slightly lower on my board but definitely within that range and and I think here's a here's a player that really has shown improvement in his game as well. You know coming in. I think the one thing we say. Tj WARREN WAS. He was he was a mid range. Mid Range guys like He. He really didn't have that three point. Shot yet and I think that was the big question mark about him as a score was he gonNA develop that three point range and why he slid a little bit further. I in the draft because of it. And He's put in the work and and he's improved dramatically and still just twenty six so he's still could be a little bit of an upper trajectory here okay. It's the Sacramento Kings. Pick in the draft. I feel like I should. I feel I feel like I should just tank pickup tank to pick on purpose. Just for like a shed at the spirit of things kings get things. I shouldn't say that because Darren Fox's has has clearly been a home run for them and in a in a really great pick but the king kings don't have the greatest track record in the draft. You know I'm torn between potential and production here a bit. It's interesting. They took nick style circus and I think they thought that maybe they were gonNA turn us into a point guard. There was a lot of a lot of a lot of teams that were hoping that. Maybe that's what he could become in the NBA. I think there's a lot of projection there. It didn't work out. I'm going to give him another point. Guard okay I got a guy that went in the second round Spencer dinwiddie Spencer Dinwiddie here. What thirty eight to the Pistons? He he's had a really nice career the last couple of years with the nets and and and I think that that while he's not a sexy player I think he's been really productive player and he's been a player that's been fine coming off the bench doing really whatever he's been asked to do for teams and I think that when you look at the players that were left here on the board I think dinwiddie would have been a really really nice choice. Would he have been the the top point guard off the board for you after Marcus? Smart BUT YEAH. Yeah a of the guys left the absolutely you know. There's another when we get to draft stories. I mean he tore his acl and it was like everyone just decided he was dead right like he moves so far off draft boards based on that because I think a lot of teams had him rated as a first rounder a Plana Colorado before he got hurt and I think teams overreacted to the injury. Well that's that's not uncommon in you understand why because a lot of times those players do struggle to bounce back from those but he certainly has had a really really Nice Korea since bouncing back from that. Okay so that's Dinwiddie to the Kings at eight nine. It's the Hornets there on the clock right so took. Novon lay okay. Let's find them a better. Big Mac Yousef Merkich took it a while. The game is footing in the League. And then obviously you had to devastating injury last year. Had One really awesome full season in Portland. Hopefully we'll add a few more to that. I really I was surprised. It took him so long to get going. I watched him play multiple times overseas and he was freaking awesome like he was. The guy just couldn't deal with that league and he had the lateral quickness to chase. Pick and roll sideline to sideline produce huge at different post. Moves like He. He had so much to him. It amazed me that it took them so long to get traction in his career Just based on how good he was and that Adriatic League that year okay really really great. Pick number nine to the Hornets Nurkic. It's the sixers they're back on the clock. They ended up doing a trade on draft night. Moved down a couple of spots to get to get Darius. Sarah was really the other besides Dante. Xm The other. Would I think a lot of people thought was the other International Star Potential Star? Yup from an international player. I'm not going to give them him actually again going to air on. Maybe they're still potential here and and and it's frustrating. Because I was more excited about him last year. I feel like there's been some some regression this year for sure but Aaron Gordon. So you're you're taking Orlando's player again you're GonNa get them to Give you a first to go from twelve to ten like they did with Peyton. Yeah I you know on paper. Aaron Gordon should be better than than than he has been and and you watch him and you see the pieces but they just don't all get put together. What what's going on with Aaron Gordon? And do you think that they're still potential for him to break into being a NBA player? He's been so far I so I think so I think so. I think two things have held them back one is. He's playing with with kind of a similar player. Jonathan Isaac like the roles aren't really define for. Who'S THE THEORY? Who's the four and is one of them is one of them really a stretch guy and is one of them. You know somebody who's going to be more independent slashing and whatnot. Because they're both kind of not that good shooters and just kind of off the dribble. I think he's maybe lost a little bit of athleticism. Seem making quite as many freakish places you used to but I also think if he was an assistant where it was more defined that he was the four and there was more shooting around that that he might be able to find more creases in spaces to play his game. That's been my thinking along that this is a this is a player. That's really system dependent needs the right supporting cast needs the right role. And that's just never really worked out in. Orlando and maybe a change of scenery would would do wonders for Aaron. Gordon's career I right. Now at ten but the potential the potential to be better than he is right. Now I think still exist for Aaron Gordon. Okay we'll be back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment with John Hollinger. You're listening to Chad. Ford's big board on the lockdown network for an early morning breakfast Burrito to Pepperoni while you watch the game. Sometimes you just need what you need delivered fast. And that's where post mates comes in if you're like me you're probably start thinking about what to eat for dinner while you're eating lunch. I love food. That's why I love using post mates. They deliver food from every restaurant. I can think of right to my door but post meets doesn't just deliver burgers and Sushi. They actually make life easier with grocery delivery and whatever. I can think of delivery to convenience stores Clothing Stores. A you name it so no more trips to the store no more late night. Fast food runs. I don't even have to worry about where to grab lunch anymore. Just download post meets on IOS or ANDROID. Find Your favorites and get anything you want. Delivered within an hour for a limited time posts giving our listeners. One hundred dollars of free delivery credit for your first seven days to start your free deliveries download the APP and use the code locked on. Nba that's code locked on NBA for one hundred dollars of free delivery credit with no minimum purchase for your first seven days win. You download the post mates APP ANYTHING. You need anytime you need. It post made it. Hey it's no Kozlov from rejecting the screen Shawn Marion a crucial member of that. Two Thousand Eleven Dallas Mavericks Championship team. Join US on the program to tell us a story of his teammate. Jason Terry pulling off the ultimate confidence move during that preseason we use the shores announcing a game in Orlando in through the team. He's over eating stopping. And his tattoos. Dot came over here and jet Trophy on his on his boscell like you do like real. I was like okay. Did He tell you? Hey I'm going to get a tattoo trophy. Did you know as it was happening where it was called? It was all kind of one sequence. He won the championship this year. I bought the trophy right now. A Internet come on out you. Don't get sick for more stories like these. Make sure you join Adam. Stanko and me on rejecting the screen. Download the program. Wherever you get your podcasts. And now we are back with our final picks in our two thousand fourteen. Nba Redraft Right now. I'm John Hollinger. The sixers had the tenth pick in the draft is selected. Aaron Gordon for them with the tenth pick in the draft where now at the Denver Nuggets with the eleventh pick in the draft. John Hoodie have well. This is convenient because I have Gary Harris go into the nuggets number eleven Gary Harris. Yeah I have to admit this guy wasn't in my lottery. Y So i Gary Harris for me I. I was trying to look at the whole body of work rather than just this season. I mean Gary Harris's third and fourth seasons he was a really good starting NBA shooting guard. And I still have some faith. They didn't get back to that because I I really don't know the hell happened to him. Like this season especially in terms of his shooting where he went from forty percent proposition from three to shoot in the low thirties and really hasn't made up for it anywhere else now. I don't know maybe he just lost. Athleticism is never going to get it back. I don't know but He's I mean he's still in his mid twenty s still pretty good defenders still a useful player even now. I just think he'd get back to that point where he's that layer that Denver. Denver signed to that contract thinking that he was going to be a top ten top fifteen starting shooting guard and there was no reason not to think that and I guess I'm still scratching my. He's he's Meyer. Aaron Gordon I guess where I'm still scratching my head over Kinda okay. What happened here but I know if I'm picking him I know. I know I'm getting a few good years. At least right. Reese GonNA play a really high level. I know I have that in my pocket. And then what what's He gonNA do between Twenty Six and thirty now? Can he get back to that level? I guess that's the part you'd you'd question you're exactly but but I think the really defensible pick there for all the reasons that you stated and when you look at also there's context here when you look at who's left on the board and you look at a player who ceiling might continue to be higher and to grow. There aren't really a lot of a lot of players left on the board that you could say that about and and I think that makes a Lotta Sense. The magic have the twelfth pick in the draft. I add them taking Andrew Wiggins at at at at four maybe you would have had them picking Andrew Wiggins at Twelve. Maybe would have been a better fit. I'M GONNA go with Jordan Clarkson okay here. Forty six pick in the draft with the Lakers has been a energetic score off the bench. Not a high efficiency scores. But but I I really like especially the role that that he's been able to play with the jazz this year being on a better team and having a more defined role. I think he's helped the jazz this year. I think that he's a back court player that can get you instant points off the bench and could even start in a pinch for a team and when we think about getting buckets that's that's an important role to play in the NBA. In in Clarkson especially given everybody else who's left on the board can get him in. Space really turned the corner as an offensive player. Air This year in terms of e could always score points but it serves being more than a volume guy in and do it more efficiently. He's he's really become much. It's I don't know if it slowdown for him. You'd say or. It's it's just been much less haphazard than it was in the past so a and. I think he's going to be able to that probably for several more years. He's another guy we talk about workouts. And here's the opposite example. He had awesome work out for us. And we may be didn't count that enough Maybe into low still yet because he didn't have a great year Missouri the year before he came out and he didn't and there was some mitigating factors behind ask but but he also is the type of guy that I could be skeptical about into workout. Because when he gets hot he's on fire and is a bit more of a streaky player. In the problem with it with a team workout is. He may just be having one of those days. Yeah absolutely okay Thirteenth Pick Minnesota Timberwolves. He picked for Minnesota Timberwolves Right. Well they took the product from Ucla. So I will stay consistent and take from. Ucla I'll take Kyle Anderson at thirteen or the Minnesota go at Jordan getting a stick Jordan. I honestly thought you were going to do that. A new go slow a good amazing thing for for me for him. When he came into the draft. The question was can defend any position. And he's actually turned out to the a really high level defender and that's where most of his value in the League has come and and it's held him back has been the shooting part of it especially because he can't play on the ball as much as he did at. Ucla mean here. Is this really funky college player. Who was like point center? Ucla it was? It was weird and and now he's in kind of a different role is like maybe a little four kind of hybrid guy in the Lee love. Slow Mo slow Mo. His game doesn't make any sense at all and it felt like it was not gonNa make any sense when he went to the NBA again. This is a guy who really really understands the game of basketball and it makes up for a lot of other deficiencies. That are out there. I think that's a great pick. I've got the last pick. It's the Phoenix Suns their fourteenth. This is like a great trivia question who has the third most wind shares of any player in the two thousand fourteen NBA draft and fourth-highest war. Would that be Jared Grant Dwight Powell Dwight? Oh I'm sorry dwight pound. Yeah Yeah. Dwight Powell goes to the Charlotte. Hornets with the forty fifth. Pick in the draft has been a staple for the Dallas Mavericks. He solid solid. Yeah but the guy. The Guy Helps Basketball teams win basketball games and Walnut. None of his numbers are ever ever sexy. When you really start to dive into the advance links this guy consistently every year is helping. His Team Win Basketball Games percent hundred percent. Yup Yup the the only reason I wouldn't had Powell higher is just like he's a big so I was. I was going for the perimeter players. A head him yeah. He's a good player. Absolutely what's crazy with this story? Is he gets drafted. And he's a throw in two different trades before he ever gets any traction. I mean a lot of money was like pure. Throw in both trades like Neither Boston Dallas doing those trays to get wipeout. It was just like oh he makes the money work. So let's talk about a few players that we didn't drop okay. The fifth pick in the draft Dante exum super exciting player for the the Utah Jazz. They waited and waited waited on him injury. After injury after injury really I think destroyed his development any thoughts on Dante exum. At this point he just never got. He just never progressed to anywhere beyond where he was. People saw almost this junior Scottie. Pippen type when he was playing in the in the hoop summit explain youth in Australia and just never really figured it out on the ball. Just never you know. His shot never came around really and even the decision making the turnovers. Like that. Just never got fixed. You think that was mostly the product of just been injured so much and missing all of that critical development time as a player. You wonder but I don't know I mean some guys just some guys just level off. You know it's hard to say. I mean he's still. He's still played a pretty significant number games. And just never just never clicked the number two pick in the draft Jabari Parker not in our top fourteen always able to score the basketball he. He's proven in the NBA. The he can score the basketball. Maybe one of the worst defenders that we've seen in a long time in the NBA Barrett has bounced bounced bounced around the NBA. Any hope for Jabari Parker hope to be a backup four who can play twenty minutes a game. Yeah he could probably do that. I just at this point. I think he just is what he is. I mean I think the knee injuries didn't help. Obviously with some of this but He's a non shooter who doesn't read the game that well. So what where? Where's the value proposition there? It's just hard. Knick Staus casse number eight th pick in the draft Sacramento King. Yeah yeah that one now I mean they was he in the deal a year later were they gave senator affiliates to Philly and gave up the future pick and the swap rights right. Yes to get rid of them. Yeah yeah that went downhill fast. Really went downhill fast disappointed. Julius randle not here even though he continues to put up kind of big numbers yeah wherever he's been he's an empty calories guy you know he was. I mean he was definitely in consideration for me with these late picks but again you know. He's a he's a big who's not really adding anything at the defensive. End doesn't really stretch the floor out for people. So you gotta you gotTa put up some pretty big counting stats to offset those two dates. Doug McDermott left. Pick in the draft and having a bit of a resurgence this year. Yeah but now fifteen nitrate Harrison Merkich to trade up for mcgirt. That did not work out. I'll Alfred Peyton. I loved Elfriede. Peyton just full disclosure. I loved Alfred. Peyton. I thought he clearly deserved to be tenth. Pick in draft. You were not hasn't panned out. A lot of people were were high on him. He was a a very young junior that correctly. Yeah Yeah yeah absolutely and yet I got to see him play bandbox Jim Against Rj. Hunter Down at Georgia state. That was fun but yeah shot never came around and I think the real the thing that really surprised people is that when he was drafted. People really talk about his defensive tools and he just never turned that into a good defender. Dario search twelve pick in the draft and in a guy who had an established track record overseas. This was not. You Know Nikoloz Schizo villa. Yeah who was? Just shooting jumpers. Jim He was the. Mvp of the Adriatic League finals. Yeah and that was a good league that year and you know we had a couple of good years in Philly and then he's really struggled since he left Philly In both Minnesota Phoenix. They've had them off the ball. I think he has to be able to play with the ball in his hands. Some to be effective and he just hasn't really been able to do that on the NBA side especially this last couple years and I think that's hurt him I still. There's some potential for resurgence. There was like a six man in an oddball role. We you know. We could do more stuff and his skill little more. I think there might be some more. They get out of him. The problem is once your team gets to a certain level. You probably don't. You probably have enough good players that you don't need darrow. Sars to be on the ball anymore and then it's like well. What do you do Jordan Adams? Twenty second pick in the draft to the to the Memphis Grizzlies. A little known little known fact. He ranks fourth in in the two thousand fourteen. Nba draft in box plus minus in his two hundred sixty three adults. I don't doubt that he was pretty good his rookie year. We just couldn't get him on the floor. 'cause we had an awesome team and a deep teen and but even in some important games where you had to play like our last game of the season that year we were playing for the four seed in the West. And WE'RE INDIANA. Who actually needed to win to make the playoffs that night and we had some injuries and Jordan played and played a lot and played really well We were able to win that game. And then he started having problems with his knee and just was never covered. Okay we have now thoroughly covered the two thousand fourteen. Nba Draft John. How do you feel about US diving? Into? Let's say two thousand sixteen. Yeah we can do that. We want to do. Some Ben Simmons Brandon Ingram. Yeah yeah next podcast we can. We can throw down about them to. That'll be fun. And and dry dragon vendor. Yeah you just want a number four Baldwin. I Know Yeah. Yeah there's a few okay. Thanks for listening to the Chad Ford's NBA big board with John. Hollinger will be back next week. Dishing on the two thousand sixteen. Nba Draft Aloha.

NBA Hollinger John Hollinger Andrew wiggins basketball Joel embiid Jabari Parker Chad Ford UCLA Hoop Summit US Aaron Gordon Lakers Julius randle SIXERS League Stud Marcus Hornets Lebron James Memphis Grizzlies David Locke
Coronavirus in the NBA

The Crossover NBA Show with Chris Mannix

22:58 min | 6 months ago

Coronavirus in the NBA

"You know it is unfortunate. He's sports illustrated's Kris Maddox podcast goal. And this is the crossover. Nba Show freaking go. Hey He's here to break down the league now he's inaccurate. That's probably true. That's fair but make a game of it. Just take a drink. Every time manic says I was done wrong. I'm solving problems. Now here's your host. These guys are going to run into the ground. Chris Chris Welcome back to other episode of the Crossover. Nba podcast the first podcast. We have recorded in the new world where NBA basketball has come to a halt along with all the other sports going on in the world the NBA. Just this past week. Choosing to suspend its season in the aftermath of a positive corona virus tests for jazz senator Rudy Gobert the aftermath of that positive test. We found out that. Go bears teammate. Donovan Mitchell he tested positive corona virus in the aftermath of that we learned that Christian would the Ford for the Detroit Pistons. He tested positive as well. So three known cases of Corona virus in the NBA which has grinded the NBA to a halt sports world to a halt as well. And there's not a lot of information that we have right now. I'M GONNA try to get you some more information on how this virus pertains the NBA. Just a couple minutes. I'll be joined by Dr Salim Founder. Who's an expert in infectious diseases? You probably seen her on CNN in the last couple of weeks. She's a very bright person when it comes to this field and she'll try to enlighten us on everything kind of has to do with the NBA and the corona virus but this is a challenging time from a basketball perspective. I don't know where we go from here. I can tell you from talking to a variety of league sources in the last couple of days there is certainly hope that the NBA season can be salvaged the NBA certainly is bracing for the possibility of playing in the summertime that has emerged as the best case scenario starting the season sometime mid June ending the season sometime in August. But nobody really knows at this point. We're sort of in this area. Era Uncertainty when it comes to the NBA. We don't really know when the league will get started again. We know a little bit about the time line right. We know that over the next eight weeks. We are definitely not going to see. Nba Basketball the CDC has declared that no crowds greater than fifty can be convened that effectively takes all NBA basketball off the table. Even if you consider the possibility that they might play in empty arenas there's no way you can get to under fifty with everything that goes into the production of an NBA game. That's put on television. Which is the only reason you'd bring? Nba Basketball back into the mix. So we are at least at mid May and then I guess we're kind of in a wait and see period though there's a lot of people in the League office that would love to get early salvage some form of the regular season. I would imagine when the League does come back. They're going to have some form of a mini training camp. You can't just take these athletes who the NBA officially told can go home and away from their home markets. You can't take these athletes at break right back into a playoff race. You probably have to have some kind of training camp short regular season if nothing else you can have the teams that are competing for playoff seeding. Even the playoffs themselves. Start to go at it a little bit towards the very end. So that's something to keep your eye on as well now. One thing I am curious about and I'm gonNA write a little bit about this. I think towards the end of the week in some ways if the NBA can come back. This is an opportunity. I think for the lead to collect some pretty valuable data. Steve Kuhnen. Who's an executive with the Atlanta Hawks? He has suggested the idea of starting the NBA season. Around Christmas time. Now that season starting then would extend the league all the way to June playoffs in the summertime and for years that was kind of viewed as a terrible idea largely because television networks wouldn't want. Nba Basketball played deep in the summertime. The thinking being well summer months people don't stay home as much. You're not gonNA get good ratings. They'll take a hit and networks clearly. Don't WanNa do that you. I've talked to a number of different television executives who really don't buy that theory who think that viewing habits have evolved so much in recent years that you will see people staying home and watching the ratings won't take a hit so if the NBA comes back and if the ratings don't take a hit that might be just kinda pushed the NBA needs to change their schedule radically to go full-time Christmas Day. Start June finish playoffs over the summertime. Because there's plenty of arguments for playing playoff games in the summertime right. There's no competition. All you have is baseball and regular season baseball. I don't know many of you have watched regular season baseball. It's pretty fucking boring is what it is so. I think that's a good opportunity for the NBA two to seize control of summer months when they're not competing with football when they're not competing with college basketball when they're not competing with the NHL they would have the summer to themselves with baseball serving as the only competition so I'd be very interested to see if the NBA can come back if they can. If the data shows that viewership is up and maybe opens the door for summer basketball to become a full-time thing. I'm actually all for it on a personal level. I know there's some people out there and I've talked many of you. That are not fans of playing basketball in the summer of being in the gym in the summer a lot of people want their summer vacation. I get all that but I think it's pretty cool to have NBA basketball. Be The only thing on the landscape and on a personal level. I really don't mind having like September and October off. I'm good with that. I'll go to football games if that's what it takes so I'm with the idea of starting the season around Christmas better for ratings and they'd be better for everybody involved. If that's the way you go a couple of basketball things you know. We're not at that point yet but if the NBA comes back. I'm very curious to see how it affects players right. You have say like The Philadelphia Seventy sixers. For example the seventy six to a struggled all season long it seemed like their entire year was headed down the drain with the injury to Ben Simmons. Joel embiid has been banged up. What happens if you give that team a month? Two months off injuries heal and they all come back and maybe the chemistry gets a little bit better with some little time to reflect. Is that a team. That could still put it together and make a run. How ABOUT IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE? The Lakers when this whole thing shut down they were playing their best basketball of the season they were coming off. Wins over the bucks over the clippers. They look like world-beater when the game came to a stop. Are they able to regain all that? Momentum can Lebron James at thirty five years old here. We go questioning. Lebron James Again can Lebron at thirty five years old. Rip Up that engine one more time for a playoff run. I think these are reasonable basketball questions that I'm sure going to ask the next couple of months. If this corona virus epidemic slowly starts to recede somewhat one of the things specific to the jazz and to really go bare at Donovan Mitchell. I reported on Friday that Mitchell was extremely frustrated with with go bear and with the situation. Utah feeling right this time but you know. Look if you're Donovan. Mitchell Gobert tests positive Gobert by his own admission reckless inside. That locker room careless with how he behaved. And how treated the whole notion of the corona virus out of the Mitchell went on Good Morning America and in response to a question of whether he's talked really go bear. He said this to be honest with you. Robin took a while for me to cool off. You know and I I read what he said and I already said so. I'm glad he's doing glad I'm glad I'm I'm doing well. I'm just really happy to be out robin that it's just you know. I hate to say this two of us but it wasn't the whole Party you know at the end of the day now. Mitchell didn't say he was upset with go bare butt. I interpreted that as basically confirmation for everything that I wrote about the relationship between the two and one thing to watch moving forward is Ken. That relationship be salvaged. These are two key players on one of the better young teams and basketball go bare Mitchell. Joe ingles these are hide. These are good players. The core members of this team by Conley's in that mix Roy Soni a lot of good players in that jazz team. They have underachieved. This year. At dealt with a variety of problems might connolly's chemistry my colleagues injuries whole lot stuff. That's do with Mike Conley but what bears watching this season beyond is just how upset. Donovan Mitchell is I mean. He's a great guy people that know him. He's a trick trick teammate. I can certainly see him getting past this but as you heard him say needed some time to kind of cool the jets a little bit and get over some stuff and that's something that certainly bears watching for now though don't even think about the NBA coming back anytime soon. The NBA is in a holding pattern the NBA is only going to come back when medical experts tell them it is safe to comeback. They're not going to rush this thing back if for no other reason than they would take a huge hit if they ultimately tried to so the NBA is going to be on ice. Probably until June at the earliest. So Hunker Down Watch. Some old highlights watchable videos. I saw a lot of players out there on social media talking about how. They're watching their old youtube videos. I'm watching a lot of players right now. If you haven't seen the video Giama rant doing a self introduction at his home wearing a full jersey. I recommend going to find it. But these guys are going a little stir-crazy Kevin Little Hay fever being at home this often. So they'll this is going to go on for the foreseeable future. What's going to get used to life without sports without NBA basketball? When we come back my conversation with Dr Selene Ghandour. Who is an expert in this field? She'll enlighten us on what this disease means for the NBA. What it means for sports her reaction to how the NBA and Sports Leagues handled. This whole situation we talked to Dr Salim Gander. When we come back you all right Dr Lene Gander is an infectious disease specialist you can sear on a CNN contributor host of the epidemic podcast and. She's also become a friend of the SL podcast network as we try to navigate all the news coming out about the corona virus. And she's kind enough to join me on. This podcast are together. Thanks for joining me so I guess first off. I want to get to a lot of basketball specific stuff. But we're recording this in the wake of the White House holding what I thought was one of the more ominous press conferences in recent weeks where it seemed like everyone including the president was taking the virus very seriously. Let me ask you first. What were your takeaways from the press conference? Well I think the tone was quite sober but I think it was right on point Tony Fao she is as usual has been able to be very level. Headed about how serious the situation is. But at the same time you know not Inducing panic and I think that's really important. I think another important message is that we yes. We have not been as proactive as we could have been. We could've moved more quickly but we still are at the tipping point right now where things could head the direction of South Korea or they can have the direction of Italy and what we do. Today we did yesterday. What we do tomorrow will really determine the course of that so I would really caution against being overly cynical an overly pessimistic because that also leads to resignation and not trying as hard as we should. This is really our last chance and we and we really need to be focused on that right now so the NBA was the first of the major sports. Leagues is suspend play based entirely on the fact that they had the first player in the four major sports leagues test positive in Rudy. Go bare just just watching from afar. What have you made of the NBA's response? And I guess the response of Sports Leagues in general. I think in general. They've done the right thing. I think that by saying you know what it's it's not safe to play even without fans in the stadium Is the right thing. Not just for their fans but for their own players and their families and I think really understanding that we all need to be part of this social distancing thing or it won't work as long as you have an exception for this an exception for that there too. Many loopholes too many holes in the system. And it's just not gonNA function. You mentioned that. Use The word Proactiv early on and you fall. This outbreak from the very beginning should sports. Leagues have been more proactive. And I guess not waited for a positive test or one of the players to do what they did. You know that's hard to say And I think part of the problem is there's been a vacuum of leadership For others to follow. I don't think this is something that you can expect. Sports Leagues to figure out all on their own. And I think part of what's happened is they have been looking to others. You know what our colleagues doing. What are other is another You know fields of business doing and in the absence of really clear leadership from the top That created some issues. Donovan Mitchell from the Utah Jazz. He was he was on. Good Morning America. This week where he said he feels fine and he always feels fine. I mean He. He was ready to play the night the NBA kind of stood still. And Mitchell is a guy who plays a lot of minutes. You can play. You can play six degrees of separation with Mitchell's team. The Utah Jazz from teams that they played to playing teams they played NBA players. They travel a lot of places they stay in a lot hotels. They ride a lot of buses. They eat a lot of restaurants. I know testing is limited but do you think that all NBA players should be tested given what we know about the fact that three of them have tested positive. I think we're really focusing our testing efforts on contacts so one degree of separation away from a case so somebody who's been directly in contact not contacts of context context. There you know I think at that point. You're you're really. You're not allocating the few tests that we have available still right now to the right people and you know the risk is still fairly low. So sort of like We have changed our perspective with the president's own exposure the original exposures at CPAC were a couple of degrees of separation. Away did not warrant testing and then later he was known to have direct contacts. And I'm not sure if that's what spurred the decision but he was tested at that point which was the right thing to do So especially in the absence of symptoms. You really don't WanNa be testing people at least at this stage unless they have a known contact there's been some criticism of NBA NBA players of getting so many tests. Right THE UTAH. Jazz fifty eight tests in a short period of time. And there's been a lot of stuff on whether it's social media or elsewhere or people saying how come they got all these tests. Why why are they first in line? What what's your reaction to that. I do have some concerns. I don't know if you heard the conversation today about Access to ventilators and governors speaking with the president about you know what's going to be the system for that and essentially it sounds like it's something of a free for all I think when you do not Again provide leadership. When you don't say okay. Here are the criteria. This is how we're going to prioritize these people for these reasons for you know and hopefully those would be scientifically based reasons. Then you do end up with these kinds of situations where the highest bidder that person who can pay the most Is able to get an advantage. What do you think I guess what from what I understand? The Oklahoma state health officials took the lead on on the jazz testing an explanation. We had to find out how many players were infected then. We basically had to back trace their movements that them being the first positive test case in Oklahoma City. What do you think of that response? Well you mean the normal thing would be to do contact tracing But then in terms of how to allocate the test you know to really focus those tests on again the direct contacts of the diagnosed cases. That would be the standard of care in the situation so I know this is really hard to map out but the obvious question that NBA Fan. Sports fans get or you know. When can they play? When is it going to be safe? I know it's a broad question. But where do you think we're headed in the next two months? I think things as DR CI himself has said Will Get worse before they get better and I think a lot depends on all of us as to how we rally and band together and do what we need to do. Not just to protect ourselves but to protect each other and that's really what will determine when players go back to play when the economy starts to pick up again. It's really about what we decided to do. You know the NBA before the Rudy Gobert test. Was you know leaning towards a situation where they would play in empty arenas and that was kind of the most favoured approached by a lot of the the NBA owners. Under what circumstances? Would you see that as being acceptable? Well if you can guarantee that everybody on the team essentially functions as their own quarantine unit you could say their social distancing unit. You know today. They were talking about Units ten which I kind of think of as maybe a family and some extended relatives or you know some really close friends in that. No one goes in or out of that bubble that circle of trust so to speak. And if you can guarantee that you know then I think that would be feasible. The problem is you're going to have people who are dating somebody new or they are going out to eat or getting takeout or the housekeeper who comes into their room to clean or you know there's GonNa there's just especially with a team that size. There's too many opportunities for there to be a breach in that bubble. Yeah so do you think that we're you know when you look at Sports Leagues like the NBA and the NHL. Which are suspending up. Until this point I mean as you look ahead. Do you think there's any chance they'll be able to resume seasons. Yeah I hesitate to prognosticate on that one because you know. I think some of the decision making is not just going to be about Risk of transmission. I think some of it will be about you. Know Economic Decisions Financial Decisions Pressure from fans and so on and you know time will tell and if that happens we'll it'll also be interesting to see how that does play out. How teams decide to control risk and if they do have any further cases depending on what they do. Yeah I mean I would imagine that I mean from an NBA perspective. The worst case scenario would probably be you come back after two and a half. Monson another player test positive which I would assume given the way it's trending is not wouldn't be a complete shock right. I mean that that's what I would expect what happened and then that would sort of reinforce that it's too soon. Do you feel like we're tough question to answer given what we don't know but large crowds gathering again. I know at this point. We're down to what fifty and even ten in what the CDC's recommending but are we even the two months that they recommended under fifty a we even how far off are. Would you think from being able to allow large crowds or b? Feel safe with large crowds again. Well I think some of that depends inside versus outside for sure but even outside if you're close enough that you're having contact with other people directly if you're within six feet of each other if you're touching things in common. Maybe it's the bleachers. Maybe it's You know water found whatever it is. You know the bathroom That still is a risk factor for for transmission The the last one ask you about is just a General Way. The best advice you would have for people that are listening to what they can do to slow the spread of this virus. Yeah let's say keep calm number one This is not the end of the world. This is something that is manageable but we all have to really commit to doing that together. and I think you know being forced to stay home with friends and family. Hopefully it's real actually just your family but you know I think the worst thing to sort of reevaluate and other ways how fortunate we are and I do recognize that that the the impact of staying home and so on when I can still work and my husband can still work despite. That is very different. One but I think it's really important to also be looking out for those of us who for whom that's harder in every way that we can kind of given all the information that we have that we're still seeing large gatherings whether it's at beaches or even nightclubs and certain blazes. It surprises me and it deeply concerns me Because it's not just again about protecting ourselves. It's about protecting all of us and if you contribute to transmission even if you don't get really sick you're still part of that chain and you're still part of that fire that's burning through everybody else and that's going to be very harmful. I wonder too if NBA players could even be an inspiration to some people. I mean Donovan Mitchell as you know he I think. He said this week that he could have played. He's ready to play a seven game basketball series right now so it. Kinda shows that You know symptoms are certainly not part of contracting this disease. I think that's a great point. And it's a great way to show their caring for their own fans. You know whether you're a basketball player politician. I think to sort of stand alongside. The rest of us who are doing this is is really important. And that's a great show of leadership. Dr Gowns. I really you taking the time to join me here as we as NBA fans kinda search for answers as everybody's so anxious to know what's next in the sports world. Thank you very much for your time my pleasure.

Nba Basketball Donovan Mitchell Rudy Gobert CNN Utah Dr Salim Founder CDC America Detroit Pistons Kris Maddox Chris Chris bears Donovan senator president NHL
Ep 14: NBA RE-DRAFT 2015

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:08:10 hr | 4 months ago

Ep 14: NBA RE-DRAFT 2015

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network. It is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy Chat Aloha. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA. Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. I've written a new book. It's called dangerous. Love transforming fear and conflict at home at work and in the world includes all the lessons. I've learned over the years as a conflict mediator a conflict professor and an NBA draft analyst working with some of the top minds in the NBA. For the next few days will be donating all profits to my new book. Dangerous love if you preordered the book at Dangerous Book Dotcom. Peace Players is a nonprofit that brings together young people in divided communities through the game of basketball they have programs of Baltimore Brooklyn Chicago Detroit. Los Angeles the Middle East Northern Ireland South Africa in Cyprus. They're an amazing organization so go to Dangerous Love Book Dotcom Imprio- The book dangerous love and help important world changing. 'cause today's show is brought to you by built bar. Built bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar go to built BAR DOT COM and use. Promo code locked on. And you'll get ten dollars off your first order. I'm your host Chad Ford. My guest today is the athletic senior writer and host of the Hollinger and Dunkin. Podcast on the lockdown podcast network. John Hollinger welcome back. Hello Hi Chad. Alright another redraft this time. Two Thousand Fifteen. If you don't know the drill by now John and I are going to redraft the lottery of the two thousand fifteen draft. We're going to do it in the form of a mock draft and we're going to be selecting based off of a player's totality of their career. Not just where. They should have been on draft night but in hindsight where we think now they have gone based off of their career. Were diving into two thousand and fifteen and I gotta say that. Maybe this draft didn't quite have the same amount of buzz. There was a clear number one guy in the strath and Karl Anthony towns. There was a lot of debate after that about who was going to be next. Actually the Consensus Guy. Coming out of high school was delillo. Kuffour Yup as the dominant prospect. Who if he had been born ten to fifteen years earlier probably would have been fine but the NBA was going to change so dramatically during this time. That was gonNA move right past him. So let's dive into the two thousand fifteen NBA draft your with the Grizzlies on this one right. Yes I was feeling. Good about your draft picks he. An accurate was your at twenty. Twenty-five a entering the draft was the only pick we had. We took giral Martin out of Lsu which was unfortunate because the way the draft broke a couple of guys. We like we really liked. Went right before us but we could have gotten more value than that pick and then we. We made a trade on draft night We traded Jon Lord of Phoenix for the forty fourth pick and selected Andrew Harrison. Who for a pick in the forties actually did okay? He played three seasons for us was important player for us in a playoff series So that one worked out Maybe okay per second twins. That's an interesting. We should talk about their sentences. Some of this podcast as well because before they began playing college basketball considered top five picks in the draft. Yeah okay well. Here's how it went on draft night and two thousand fifteen. The Minnesota Timberwolves had the number one. Pick the Karl Anthony. Towns out of Kentucky Good Job Lakers had number two pick in the draft. They fell in love with the Ngelo. Russell out of Ohio. State The Philadelphia. Seventy sixers in the midst of tanking and the REBUIL- take two little for out of Duke. Their third center drafted in a row at four. The Knicks Select Kristaps Porzingis. Best move at the Phil Jackson era out of Latvia love loved loved loved. Prisoners in the STRATH THEIR ORLANDO. Magic are fifth on the board. They take Mario Zonja out of Croatia. Athletic Super Energetic player didn't pan out at all. Nope Sacramento Kings at six. Will this be the year John This? I don't think this is the year. It's not the year Lilly. Kelly Stein out of Kentucky number seven Denver Nuggets Emmanuel Moody. Yeah very highly regarded prep player. We'll talk more about him. I'm sure eighth. Pick the Detroit Pistons Stanley Johnson out of Arizona another very very highly yup ranked prep player number nine Charlotte. Frank Kaminsky out of Wisconsin and turn a gold mine from Boston to take him. That is right. Let's make sure we talk about that. Let's note that in about that number ten. Miami Justice winslow Out of Duke. I believe he was the target for for Boston. Yes slow was the target number Eleven Indiana. Very Nice pick here at eleven miles turner at a Texas number twelve. The Utah Jazz. Trey lyles now one tukhy now and ended up working out. Okay oh it sure did not not for the reasons that you think but it sure did. Thirteen Phoenix Suns Devon Booker out of Kentucky. I liked this better than the drug and bender. Pick by the way this is the Fourth Kentucky player taken in the lottery and the strap and then fourteen Oklahoma City Cameron Payne out of Murray State. A rare misstep For samp rusty Yeah that's how it went on draft night. We are going to now dive into selecting this draft. I get the number one pick in the draft. I'm very excited to continue to reselected. This has actually been pretty rare for us that we keep the number one pick yet number one. Yeah this yeah something about all these teams. That are very excited to get the number one. Pick the number. One pick doesn't usually end up being the best player in the draft but in this case a clearly is and. I'm not sure anybody's catching him. Karl Anthony towns out of Kentucky. Yeah absolutely yeah and it's and it's really interesting because Karl Anthony towns showed up as a junior at the Nike Hoop Summit. You remember that yes I do. And he was playing because he. He had dual citizenship. So where was he playing? Play Dominican Republic right and then and John Calipari somehow became head coach of the Dominican Republic. National Team Yeah. And that the take on Karl Anthony towns at that first. Hoop summit was kind of you. Know Big Kid. Goofy kid like to hang out on the perimeter like to shoot threes was very skilled but soft. I think that was the take on. Karl Anthony towns. Yeah a kid that was going to be really soft. And and here's an example of why I really like John Kalahari as a college coach and i. I've said several times if I had a blue chip type SON BASKETBALL PROSPECT. I would send into Kentucky and having play with with John Calipari. John Kalahari does the unthinkable. The Karl Anthony towns. He tells him quit. She threes quit playing on the perimeter. Go learn how to play in the paint. Become tough and it's going to help your draft stock and there was all sorts of stuff throughout the season. They're playing in the wrong way. Lots of criticism. Karl Anthony Towns is only playing twenty minutes a game averages. Ten points a game. Six point seven rebounds a game not typically the numbers that you talk about when you have the number one pick. But here's the deal. Everybody all the scouts new. He could do all that other stuff. They already knew that about his game. Color Party helped him answer. The biggest question marks that he was going to have about defense about rebounding about toughness. Those were the question marks. That scouts had coming into the season. Calipari made him work on his game. Forced him to play that way. His parents supported and that was one thing the parents were like. Yep teach him making become that type of player and I think this was really the case where I coached showing a little bit of tough. Love to a blue chip prospect helped make him into the number one pick draft. Yeah it certainly cemented his status because by by the time that draft happened. You're right there was no question who is who the number one player was and I mean. He's shown the skill part right thirty nine point six percent career from three actually by far the best percentage of any player in this draft and but he's combined that with the interior play the rebound he such load on the offensive glass now You know still they. You still hear some the softness stuff about him but it's in a different light. I think it's it's at the standard of for an all star player. I wish he was a little meaner as opposed to he's too soft to be in the NBA or anything like that. He's a great great young man and just I got to spend some time with them before the draft had a really great conversation with them. We actually met up. Lax Airport later and continue. That conversation just really enjoyed him as a person. Unfortunately Karl Anthony towns mother passed away from Kovic Nineteen In this crisis which was very very very sad thing but he's been an awesome. Nba Player in five seasons for the wolves. The only sad thing is that the wolves just have not been able to build a team around him to really compete and there was a time that we thought with wiggins and that this was going to happen that Minnesota was really going to be one of those young up and coming teams and and really. They're kind of in the mode of starting all over again. Yeah it's It's it's really unfortunate and he's he's the centerpiece of it And it's you know along with another guy from this draught and in In Russell and it's really interesting to see which way it's going to go You know if he's going to be able to be a winner there he's going to have to go someplace else okay. I think he's the clear number one pick. I don't think anybody's GonNa fight us on this. One at all Lakers are on the board at number two they fell in love with Diangelo Russel. They were considering Ohka Four. They were considering presume. There was actually a big. There is a big movement actually for Okeafor in their camp at the time and then people say no. We need this dynamic guard. We need a guy like Russell. Russell had such a electric personality in some ways he was Chris. Matic Magic Johnson really liked Dangelo Russell. I mean it was really interesting. This conversation because when the Lakers get this high the Lakers aren't going for solid. The Lakers are swinging for the fences. Every time They really hope the Russell was going to be that guy for him. Is that WHO? You're going to select number to know as much as I love. Left-handed point guards from Ohio state. I'm not gonNA take Russell. I'm going to take kristaps PORZINGIS. Who even with the injuries I think? As by far the highest level of anyone left on the board in terms of being an all star caliber. Big Who can impact winning with the shooting with a shot blocking is in a really great fit now in Dallas where he's the second best player on a good team which I think is the ultimate role for him. Where he you know can can impact things defensively. Open the floor offensively. But he's not the guy who you're trying to go through fifty possessions again. I think that's tremendous for him and tremendous pick You know for for the Knicks. Actually which we don't say often Especially in the first round except kind of blow it with him. Yeah exactly because they let him you know he was so unhappy with the whole dynamic of the organization that he basically forced his way out of there and his left to the Knicks. Starting over again. Really interesting this was a player. I was very excited about he comes to the US and does work out in Las Vegas. We there at that workout John Yes Joel Buna. Ours place exactly yet yet. But I you know I I was familiar with already though like we had scouted him overseas. We actually we weren't the only ones like teams are trying to get him to come out the year before and you know in promise him right so right in the lottery he would have been a lottery. Pick THE OH. Absolutely yeah so. He was a known quantity. But I think for the Knicks like Phil maybe just taken the job or hadn't seen him yet so I think it was important for that from that perspective. He had a great workout by the way in Vegas showed his shooting. Ability showed his mobility. Dallas was a team. It's great that he ended up in Dallas because Dallas was a team that was tried to promise him the year before. It was very very high on him. They obviously have a greater national scouting regime there and now he lands on a team that really values him. What happened with the Knicks? Why did this fall apart? You know it's hard to say exactly where went wrong or if it was if it was one event or just the whole totality of the experience that that really pushed him away and I you know I still don't. I still don't really know kind of some of the details there. It's it just seemed like it started going sideways. And just never got back on track and just the Knicks being the Knicks. Just things just got progressively worse. There's a bit of A. He said she said here. Coming from the Knicks Perspective of what happened in Zingers. His perspective of what happened but again this speaks to me about organizational culture your end the biggest market or the second biggest market in the NBA. You don't leave the Knicks or WanNa leave the Knicks and less something has been really screwed up your agents not put you know. It's not like you're in Memphis in your agents like we can get all these endorsement deals and you're GONNA become such a bigger player if you go to Newark bigger market or whatever. He's at the Knicks and. I think that this is one of those moments. Even if it is hamlet pushing for the trade and it's totally on presents us that you have to look at yourself as a franchise and say how are we losing a guy like this and certainly. What they got in return was was pretty bad. Yeah and entering restricted free agency. I mean it wasn't even like they had had him for two contracts and he was about to hit his walk year as an unrestricted. Free agent. Right you is heading into restricted free agency hidden. They and they still lost him as the New York Knicks. Like that. That should never ever happened in one hundred million years. Okay just more good news for Knicks fans who have not been loving our redrafts. Kevin Knox three draft the Russell Westbrooks. That haven't been loving that just a little bit more to pile on okay. It's the third pick in the draft the Philadelphia. Seventy sixers are on the board and for all of the talk about the sixers and the process and the tanking. Is this the moment where we weaken acknowledge that the sixers weren't very good at drafting? This I think was the turning point for the For the process because this this pick was what set the wheels in motion for every everything that happened with Colangelo coming in and and Henke being replaced and all that because the oak things went sideways with the oak for pick. They drafted another traditional. Big which is odd for their revolutionary. Thinking that they. They're doing that. They would that they would make this pick and then his off. The court stuff quickly became a huge issue. In retrospect they obviously should've taken porzingus. So yeah this were kind of went sideways for because you can. You can argue okay. They got embiid which turned out to be a great pick but also kind of fell to them in a in a certain way they got. Ben Simmons pretend the number one pick in the raft and he was the consensus number one guy in the draft at the time after that when you look at some of the draft picks. I mean when you if this is your strategy. If you're going all in the draft you've gotta get these right And OKAFOR was such a head scratcher to me on draft night. For so many reasons his stock was was plummeting that you WanNa talk about Intel and some concerns about Intel with okafor their and You know one story that that that I can tell that he had a time guy that had been his trainer and really taught him his big skills. Let's give locavore credit. He was a very skilled old school. Big Man with soft hands. Great footwork around the basket. You know he was he skilled but he wouldn't let anybody else work with him to preparing for the draft and so he had a trainer that was working with him. That wasn't doing anything. I mean. Just even the drills and things that I was watching him go go through. Weren't anything like what you're seeing other trainers doing preparing players for the NBA draft. And you start to worry about. Who's in his ear and what sort of information? He's getting. What sort of work? He was going to put in and whether he was going to be able to adapt his game at all the NBA. And there's already questions physically about whether he was going to be able to adapt his game. But even when you're not working on it that way it was a pretty big red flag of of guys than I went out and visited pre-draft and spent some time with by the time I was done with. Okafor he was. I was pretty down on him as a prospect and presumed his sitting right there for a Philadelphia at the time and I thought would have actually been a good fit and Philadelphia's well so who do I take at three also. I'm going to say Devon Booker's pissed at you right now. That Devon Booker has got a bit of a chip his shoulder. We can talk about that again. And it's it's really interesting. I mean if you're looking at players in this draft his career average right now twenty two points a game right He's averaging almost five assists the game. He's had big big years for Phoenix. I was not that big a that high on booker in the draft. Certainly not number two number three number five pick on him and he actually confronted me about this at the NBA. Concubine he and you know at Kentucky. Here's another case. This is a very very stacked Kentucky team and so no one necessarily on the Kentucky team was necessarily having like the biggest season ever. He averaged ten points a game. I gotTA tacky that season. He did shoot forty one percent from three and we knew that he was going to be an an excellent shooter in the NBA. But I think there was questions about his athleticism. I think there was questions about his position a little bit in the League. There's this the number of things going where he win the draft. I don't think was any surprise that he slipped thirteen but he's draft. He's dramatically in. My opinion exceeded what we thought or what. I thought he would be coming into the draft and one of the things that I like about him. He does play with a bit of a chip on his shoulder. He's one of those players that felt insulted that he went this low in the draft and has worked his butt off the prove that he's much better than teams thought he was. Yeah what do you? What's your take on him because I know the analytics don't aren't as favourable Devon Booker. Well he as just the basic needs to feel more insulted when his man's scores certainly but that said I mean he's I think he's the number three guy in this draft. I did advocate for him to be on the All star team this year. I think he did make some steps defensively and then offensively to Israeli refined his game. The thing that shocking to me Was how much more he showed. He could do almost immediately when he got to Phoenix that you never saw him do it. Kentucky terms of run and pick and rolls and making reads shooting pull ups hit guys had a little more speed on the ball. I think people realized and you know he was a young freshman on that team to and you know we talk about age. Sometimes I think he kind of blossomed between between then and his his rookie year and Phoenix in. This kept that trajectory going. It's just shocking. To look back and see trey lyles got taken with the pick ahead of him. When they were both perimeter players on the same team Kind of been this in a somewhat similar role people. I think people thought the system was holding back. Trey lyles when actually was holding back Devon Booker Right. It may have been holding back everybody a little bit. But that's not calories fault. That's the point that he had very very stacked Kentucky team. That as we pointed out at the beginning had four lottery picks on this team. But it is interesting as you go to the advance stats as far as you know Box Plus minus he's thirteenth fourteenth. In the strath. Yeah some some. If you go to shares its night yeah and again. Some of that was because his first couple of years he was putting up numbers without really impacting. Winning you know on these team. Phoenix teams. Were GOING NOWHERE. And so there were some empty calories. There is first couple of years but I think he's still in his early. Twenties game has gone to another level in this in this past year so I think he's clearly the number three guy now. Okay no controversy there at number three. Then that's who the sixers of taken and would have been a really nice pick by the way for the seventy sixers now at four for the Knicks. Who Do got. This is an interesting You know I tend to value parameter more than I value bigs. And there's some good I could pick from here but I just think having a guy who can create on the ball is more valuable than that So despite his the rocky start he got off to an LA and some of the questions about his defense. I'm to go de Ngelo Russell here just a guy who can shoot create on the ball. Good Passer obviously made the All Star teams a twenty two year old. I don't know if you'd really call them like an all star player but a good player. I think he's going to be able to continue to be a good player for a number of years and at at this point. I mean there's still a lot of good players left but there aren't like twenty points scorers literate littering the board right here so if Russell hadn't been drafted to hadn't gone to the Lakers hadn't had the hype hadn't run into the locker room stuff with his teammates. That caused at least some of his Lakers. Teammates did not want him on the team anymore. We would probably be evaluating this game a little bit differently. Yeah and you know you're right at Golden State. This year had a really good season Brooklyn the year before really good season looked good and limited twelve games for MINNESOTA. Do you like this fit. I offense only. I love the fit. I think they're great. Pick and pop partnership They have to compete more at the defensive end to make it work. And the T. Wolves have to put the right players around them to make it work so the question is will they give you enough offensively to make up for their not being great defensively okay? The magic are at five. They take Mario his own. Yeah there's a lot of buzz about him coming out of Europe aggressive. Tough super can shoot the ball not a lot of evidence. Joe Alexander of Europe right and and this is one of those things where if international players are GONNA get ya. It's they're on a good team but they don't play a lot of minutes but there's all the talk about them competing in practice in and then they have a few bust out games where they look really good. You Fall in love with all the tools and the ability but don't really have a great feel for what they're going to be on the court and that's been has own you throughout his career. Just never put it together and it's funny because even like you talk to players in Spain and and they would say these really positive things about him that he always an NBA athlete. He's not like anyone in Europe and whatnot but he just lay in the Games. He just couldn't do it okay. I'm not going to select him there. I've been back and forth between two miles turner. Yeah mantras Cheryl. I think I'M GONNA go with Harrell. They actually have very Very similar numbers just across the board when you when you look at them both averaging twelve point seven points a game. Turner a better rebounder. You look the field goal percentage. This were herald really shines sixty one percent field goal percentage here. I just love the energy the way that he affects the game every time that he's on the floor and that's where you start to see some of his numbers pop a little bit a little bit more right in in the box. Score plus minus. What have you when Herald is on the floor? A guy that I really liked in Louisville. You know the questions about whether he was under sized questions about whether he had any sort of perimeter game or offensive game at all but the motor. They athleticism the toughness. I I think he's been fantastic. I I I can't argue. It's really close between Heroin Turner. You can argue that Turner's two years younger so we might have more runway ahead of him than Harold does a herald these last three seasons in La. I mean he's been really good and still saves to be on an upward trajectory there whereas numbers Keep getting a little better each year. it's funny. Because he's not really a floor space or not really rim-protector see think he wouldn't fit in today's game but he's so good out of roll into the basket And can make decisions on short roll to which I think is key. So he's not it's not just a catching dunk thing. tremendous chemistry. Lou Williams on the pick and roll which is an easy. 'cause you know Lou. Lou Is GonNa driven shoe most of the time you gotTA BE GOTTA BE READY. And he is and just never takes playoff all right herald to the magic number five. We'll be back with pick six through ten on the next segment with John. Hollinger you're listening to Ted Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. I WanNa talk to you about. Our new sponsor built bars. I'm a runner and I've been constantly looking for great tasting. Low sugar high protein energy bar really for the last decade. I've tried every brand but usually get turned off by the high sugar content or chalky bad taste. They leave him my mouth. 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Please text advertising two three three seven seven seven texts advertising three three seven. Seven seven or go to locked on podcasts dot com slash advertising. Stay safe stay socially distance and thank you very much for tuning into the lockdown podcast network and John and I are back redrafting the two thousand fifteen NBA draft. Carl towns is off the board. Porzingis's off the board Demo Booker's off the board Diangelo Russel off the board MANTRAS HAIR. A little bit of a surprise off the board five. You're the kings at six bully. Kelly Stein was the pick. I have a feeling Willie Cauley. Stein is not going to be the pick for you. Who Do you have six? I'M GONNA take a center for them but I'm not gonNA take that center. I'm going to take the guy you just discussed. Miles Turner still only twenty four years old. Good three point shooter. Good Shop Locker didn't have a great year for the Pacers this year Buck led the League in blocks two years ago and Just a good starting center that I think we'll have a nice. You know to fifteen year run here in the League as a as a as a plus player interesting player very highly ranked prospect out of high school. Scouts can get over the fact that he looked like he couldn't run. He had one of the strangest running. Gates that you've ever seen yeah and gigantic feet and just just it was it was it was odd and you did wonder about. It was the first thing I noticed about him the first time I saw him like you could. You couldn't help notice it and I think it distracted people from the fact that Okay but can we get back to how he plays basketball right because he actually had had a good season in Texas? But I think there was concerns about you know again with a running form. Was it going to be something that was going to affect injuries? And and there was just so many questions about people were obsessed with it. I remember at the Time Nan when the Pacers drafted him the first thing that they wanted to work on and was changing the way that he runs and he's improved. Oh definitely and I mean skilled skilled big like that. I mean it's one thing to just have a regular baseball big slide in the draft like a skilled big who is so highly touted out of high school and had a good year in college. I mean he slipped to far this draft. Clearly okay agree with you on that pick. The nuggets are on the board. They select Emmanuel Moody. Who I think for some people felt like he fell on draft night. They were surprised that he lasted all the way to seven. Interesting story was one of those pioneer players that was going to go to smu. I was GONNA play for Larry. Brown had some eligibility issues ends up going to China and that's becoming more and more trend for college basketball players and really really struggled in Denver. I'm not going to select him struggling a little bit here. I think there's another drop off my opinion of of WHO's next on the board. I'M GONNA go with a guy. He wasn't as good as I thought he was going to be this year. And maybe I shouldn't go with him because maybe now that he's on the the sixers. I should take that with a bit of. I should take that with a bit of caution but Josh Richardson Yeah I wish we had taken a wet forty at NFC. None totally clear given his career at Tennessee why he slipped this far in the draft. Why did you pass on him? He was he was twenty two and he couldn't shoot. Everyone loved the defense. Thought it could handle the ball. Just we're very sensitive. Certainly were very says of Memphis about adding another non shooting perimeter player to our team at that point and You Miami did a great job. I think getting his shot to the point where it's where it's a weapon where you thirty six percent career. Three point shooter eighty-one from the line. He's been able to shoot the ball. Well as a Perot and I think that was the swing skill for him. That's made the difference. Is everyone knew he could defend coming out? And was this a case. You know it's interesting like as a three point shooter. His senior year at Tennessee shot thirty six percent for three anti shot. Eighty percent from the line. You just The the eye test on the mechanics was not that he had a disappointing year for Philadelphia. I think that's fair to say His three point shooting drops off He shot thirty thirty two. Let's say thirty three percent from three this year where he's been you know the two years before he was shooting thirty eight and then thirty six is he a good fit in Philadelphia or was this a it. Was this a case where he was on the right team and now he's moved to a team. That's the wrong team. And it's Kim expose him a bit as a prospect. Well I think what exposes him as the fact that he has to be too much of a playmaker and shooter for for Philly because they don't have a lot of that in the half court so it puts him in kind of the number one role which I think is the right role for him. He's got a career high usage rate. Even though he's having a down year and I think that's part of it that that fit with Simmons and embiid being there is so weird the paints crowded. He's not he's more of a slash than a perimeter guy even though he can shoot. Okay so I just think I just think the overall fit. Their baby isn't great There's I mean there's some variance there too. I mean you know thirty. Two point seven from three. I think he's going to do better than that. But jet don't love the fit on that roster at the offensive end okay the Pistons at eight Stanley Johnson. Another very highly touted prep coming to Arizona but definitely some shades of Shabazz Muhammad where his body and his physical strength allowed him to dominate players in a way that just wasn't going to happen in the NBA. Who Do you select a date? Yeah well let me let me let me get a pissed. The Pistons a guy that I think they'd love to have anyway undrafted out of. Unlv you remember him sitting in the Inner sued after the draft disappointed Christian would Christian. Would I think he was a top ten center in the league this year? He was fantastic. The night the league shutdown he went fourteen for eighteen against Joel. Embiid y does he slide completely out of the draft. There was a lot of bad intel about him in that draft and mostly related to his his work ethic and his competitiveness and I think for the teams he worked out for. They saw that. He just didn't have that. That motor that competitiveness to insert. I mean certainly. It happened with us to be honest. And then there was There was another workout that was public. Think it was at Buna. Sars place were the present guesswork out where was kind of the same thing where people thought he'd just wasn't wasn't a guy who's who's really locked into being a pro and really because people people saw him earlier in the year they they were like this guy might be a first round pick and then the more people started calling and getting info about him. It was kind of like here. And he ended up in the in the wilderness for five years and then completely blows up what what happened because the Intel so important you know this is not a normal story. Yeah there was clearly basketball talent. I mean let's let's say that Christian would had first round pick talent for sure How did he turn it around? I don't I don't know exactly although I mean clearly. There was way more resilience in here than people thought because it took him five years of basically going through ten days in the G. League and whatnot and being cut a couple times to really find his home and once he did. He grabbed that opportunity with both hands to to his credit It was interesting because you interviewed him. Everyone I think the people interviewed him. Nobody thought he was a bad kid. There was just a lot of questions about how much he wanted it. And whether he would work and and those types of things and I I do think for whatever reason he plays a lot harder to us to and that's been a big change. He's learned something and now that he has it. He's gripping tightly and it's a great success story. He's bounced around Philadelphia Charlotte Milwaukee. Pelicans G. League. But wow what a season in Detroit that puts the Hornets on the board. At nine. I'm going to give him the guy that they paid a bunch of money for ask season Terry Rozier I tear part of this is like the Celtics I mean you know Celtics fans I think for a long time. We're like if he just unleashed heroes ear. Everything is going to be better and clearly frustration with his role in in Boston and to his credit he goes the Charlotte puts up really big numbers. Eighteen points a game. Four assist the game four rebounds. A game shoots forty percent forty forty one percent from three this season really good numbers for an point guard. He's twenty five years old. He's good it's like he's he's your third guard. I think you're super happy. I think he's a starter for you. You feel okay. Maybe like he's a good shooter. Like you say shock forty three this year. Not like a super playmaker You know defensively. He's okay could probably be a little better has has some probably some more chops there that he's shown but is funny looking back though because people thought the time this pick was a little bit of a reach. Most people had him in the twenties in that draft night. You remember at but he fit. He fit a player. That Danny Aines often goes for which someone who's tough and gritty you know. That's that's an athletic that's Danny ainge player. Yeah Yeah and certainly like especially his rookie and go so well but like by by his third season you know. He's out playing Eric. Bledsoe in the playoffs Which is really important for them. like they got they got a nice return from that pick Even though they had to surrender him to get Kemba Walker This off season so i. I think that worked out really well for Boston. Okay that's the ninth. Pick of the draft. You have the Tenth Pick John. It's the Miami Heat. They selected justice winslow. Will that be your pick? That would be a defensible pick. That's who I'm going to take for them. This guy went forty six in the draft after a fairly miserable senior season at UCLA. Norman Powell Norman Powell. Tell me why Norman Powell is the pick here over guys. Like winslow or Kelly oubre. I just think he's established a lot more who he is in the League. I mean WHO's a rotation player on a championship team? Came back this year. Pleurisy rating a seventeen for a wing player. Shot thirty nine point. Eight from three Certainly his development is the shooter. I think is as surprised a lot of people who saw him play. Ucla where he was really more of a athlete. Straight-line rim driver Kinda Guy The athleticism was always there. But I think just the all around gain has really developed a lot and that Toronto system to where he is a good wing player now and that is one of the. That's the hardest thing to find in. The League is is good. Two-way wing players. You can make a shot. He can create his own shot. Kind of checks. All the boxes You know I think he has still a pretty bright future ahead of him. We like a lot of the raptors picks Messiah Jerry good drafter. I think fines God done. Yeah they've done. They've done a good job. Drafting in union with the guys who go undrafted. They've done a good hand. You know what they say about pal too is he was patient. I was actually at in Israel for Basketball. Without Borders and he was one of the NBA players. That was there and just watching him put on the work. Whenever he wasn't doing this basketball without borders stuff was really really impressive. A guy that is just continuing to try to work on his game. Get better and better and I think we all know that one of the key attributes. If you're going to blow up is to keep working and working working at your game. And that's that's what norm Palestinian. Yeah Yeah really really good player. You could have an argument for him to go higher here. Okay we'll be back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment which on Hollinger you're listening to Chad. Nba Big Board on the lockdown. Podcast network let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead. It's hard to find the time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. You can't read or work on personal development. 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It's the Pacers there at eleven. I am going to select a guy that I really liked in the draft. I continue to hope that the glimmers of of goodness that we've seen from him at times the Miami will continue to pay off in that in Memphis he'll have an will continue to have a good career justice winslow. He was the hardest guy for me to put on this board because we don't know what he is yet. He's in the middle of his second contract that we don't know what he is yet. It's really is I. I don't know what he is either. But there's something there and I think it's going to be a bit of where he fits. And what sort of role he can play but I really liked him when he had the ball in his hands in Miami that was probably when I liked him the most as a player. I just think the work ethics there the athleticism there. There's enough there that I expect winslow to figure this out and be at this point with the eleventh. Pick the draft a really good player. They'd be for a long time. Maybe not never an all star. Maybe you know. Maybe he's the fourth third fourth starter on your team. He's twenty three years old. Yeah yeah still still really young hear great things about him in terms of his work ethic and off decor so you want to believe in that you hope the back situation is okay with him and you go to. Memphis is interesting though because the one thing that won't happen is he won't have the ball in his hands. Jami rant there so the that'll be interesting to see how that dynamic works okay. The Utah Jazz selected. Trey Lyles at twelve not the right pick yet but turned him into Donovan Mitchell. Which was a home run for the Utah Jazz? Yes yeah it worked out okay for him. But I'll tell you there was a guy sitting right there in their hometown You talk about Toronto drafting. Well here's another one Dhillon right they took with the twentieth. Pick who. I think it's become a really good Two Way to position guard sneaky play maker Pesky defender size enough to play twos but could play the point on offense. The knock was on a shooting coming out of the draft. But he's he's actually shot the ball. Okay thirty four point five operas career from three. We had him for Twenty six games in Memphis at the end of last year I wish you would have been able to stay. I think he's just a really high level. He's either a really high level backup point guard or like a a decent fourth or fifth starter on your team had like. I just think he's a good player. And there are some big taken here but again. I'm kind of biased. Toward good perimeter players over bigs just because they're harder to find so. I'm going to go to Lan right here and I definitely think got Utah. A BIG QUESTION. Mark was what position does he play and his shooting ability though he shot thirty five thirty six percent from three and it was it. Was that low push to that. I think people questioned now kind of understood why he went where he went in the draft. That felt okay at the time but I agree that he's over performed where he was drafted. That gives me the suns at thirteen. I feel Kansas player coming off Kelly. Bray all right. Well why are you laughing every time select the Kansas flare? Oh No I'm lacking because it's Kelly oubre because You know that's a Miss Chapter in Grizzlies history. He was the fifteenth pick in the draft. averaged eighteen point seven points per game this year at Phoenix. He can really see. He really worthy basketball. Six and a half rebounds a game not bad One point three steals a game not bad obviously had a reputation coming out of Kansas slides in the draft based off of a lot of that stuff in you know housing. Is he going to be coach? Abol lot of that stuff starts off very very slow as I. Two seasons in Washington where it looks like maybe this is a bust of a pick for them and then starts to come on in his third year at Washington and then I think he's been really really played well for Phoenix in his one and a half or so seasons there. Yeah I you know. He's interesting because even though he's Kinda skinny he's had some of his best moments when they play him as a four both in Washington and Phoenix. Good enough shooter like not a knockdown guy become a good enough that you're going to pay attention to him a good one on one player at both ends struggles a little more and kind of the five on five elements like doesn't really see the floor Especially when he puts it on. The floor is definitely shooting. Defensively kind of the same thing loses awareness and whatnot. But he's gotten better at those things as he gets more to his twenties and you could see I mean he still twenty four still on an upward trajectory. So you could see him. Still moving up a couple notches here. Potentially so one of the criticisms that I've seen some people on Twitter. Give about a redrafts. Is that we underestimate scoring so you selected dhillon right who averaged seven points a game for Dallas this season over a Guy. That's twenty four years old who averaged almost nineteen points a game in the NBA. Are we undervaluing? The fact that scoring the basketball is skill in the league and matters because we're looking at so many other factors. I just think if you look at the you know a lot of the advance stats that that some of the other things and of mattering more. It's it's not just scoring it's scoring in a way that that adds I mean if you give me a hundred shots I'll score but I won't help anybody win and so I I think I think it comes down to more than than just the scoring part of it and you're you're right. I mean escort scoring does matter. I don't WanNa diminish that but I think people if you Guam too much on that you can kind of lose the whole totality of what the players contribution is both. I think this was partly people frustrated with me and you picking trae young six when he is clearly dominant. Nba Scorer and him. You know several other players ahead of them because they do other things on the defensive end or the other things about their game that maybe a trae young or someone like Kelly oubre made a decided might be good to address it here of why because this was again. Glaring example of a guy just had nineteen points a game in the NBA The season and we selected a guy who averaged seven points a game head of him as an saint. He's a backup in the league. But you're right if you look at the advance stats the lawn. Right just shows better in almost every metric. Yeah Hey the thunder on the board a rare time when we are going to tell Sam Prestige yet. Here's how we're going to help them out. We're going to take a guy who was very old coming out of Wyoming and whose medical scared this shit of people and despite that turn out to be a great. Pick FOR THE LAKERS LARRY. Nance junior love. This pick Larry Nance his really even an L. A. When he was getting minutes he was he was helping helping them. It was this just clearly an example of K. injuries age plane at Wyoming. Maybe people feeling like he was getting a benefit of the doubt doubt because of his dad was and he slides as far as he does because he had a really good career in Wyoming and they're they're clearly was athletic skill and and some of the stuff that we've seen in the NBA. Was clearly there. Yeah he's a he's a classic geography guy for me which a bad geography guy is a guy who plays in the Inter Mountain West or the Pacific northwest and not for Arizona or Gonzaga. So scouts are automatically going to see these guys a lot less. Because it's such a pain in the ass to get to their places to see them. You know you've been to Laramie Wyoming to see a game. I've not okay that I I went there once. It's it's you you. You don't just end up in Laramie you know what I mean like. You're not have a layover in Laramie. I guess I'll go see Larry nance play so it inevitably everybody ends up seeing these guys less and I think that hurts them in the draft. But it's also an opportunity for teens To get to get these players like Larry Dancer. Pascal out of New Mexico state Or you know. There's there's a lot of examples of these guys where where they come from places that are that are a little harder to get to some. Sometimes they slip through the cracks a little bit and and either teams. Don't see them or the right guys on the team. Don't see them. You know if you're especially the general manager or the you know the vice president or whatever They have a much more limited scouting window. And they're just going to try to make it as efficient as possible to see as many players as possible usually Laramie Wyoming doesn't figure into that equation and that's why you know is really interesting watching again. The last dance with the Bulls Scottie. Pippen and you know the extent that some of these general managers had to go. Fine guys like Scottie. Pippin in this day and age with so much money spent on scouting. It's amazing that that you could still fall through the cracks at places like that but it happens and it's a it's a great point absolutely you know. This wasn't a bad draft John like we. We have Frank Kaminsky. Still thought drafted rashawn homes. Were shot this year like he was at Roy. They Rendezvous Hollis. Jefferson's going to be in the League along Time Bobby. Portis was doing some things before he landed on the Knicks with another eighteen. Power Forwards You know there's there's guys on this list that we we didn't even talk about. Let's talk about just a couple of players that we didn't select okafor goes number three in the draft. We didn't select him what happened. You know I think again background is important and find out what these guys are made of Certainly he was. He was drafted for the wrong era. And that hurt him too. But the the background to me is the bigger story there. He's been in New Orleans. The last couple of years you know puts up some numbers and limited minutes. You know when he's on the court but yeah it just you saw this one coming. Interestingly it wasn't even the first the season where he was having a big year for do it just as you got closer to the draft. That just started to become clear that OKAFOR was being drafted. T- Ten years too late. Let's talk about another guy. We talked about his own little bed and I think we've probably covered him. Willie Collie Stein goes six. Yeah always questions about him to how much you know how much he was really into basketball. You know here's the thing like it's not like he was a bad player like this ended up being a pretty good draft so it's hard for me to really kill him over that tick they could just as easily kept him as not as not at the end of last year he actually had a pretty good fourth season for them and but just wasn't quite like he's a pretty good rim runner but not not a rebounder and not quite skilled enough to really make you pay an offensive player so I think he probably tops out as a like a plus backup. Maybe because of that and I can't speak to him now but when I was doing my pre-draft tour and going around to gyms and watching guys work out. He was Mr Red Flag. Just an hat just the attitude that he was taking to the workout talking back to the trainers within ESPN reporter standing there on the sidelines. Filming things when so many of these prospects if nothing else they're gonNA fake it for two hours right with the SPN coming in. Yeah Yeah like at least I'm just put on and you could tell how difficult it was for them to get him going. Obviously the athleticism the coordination some of the plays that he made it. Kentucky were outstanding in his ability to move best dunk. I've ever seen in person against Florida is ability to defend multiple positions. Full court Because of his lateral speed I mean there was. You could see the talent but this was already coming out of Kentucky again. Background background background on him. The king's ignored it and I think that even even in the draft even though I think you're right the talents there and you can still see it on the court perhaps again. I don't know what he's like now but perhaps the work ethic is an issue Emmanuel Mounier. Yeah you know. It's interesting because I felt like he was a little bit of a mock draft. Guy Like he he he played in the hoop summit and like he was all right and then he went to China and he wasn't good over there and you just you just wonder. I mean he was big was fairly athletic so there was always that temptation but there was never a stretch where he put it together. Really what do you think about this season in Utah? Because I thought I thought that he was playing an important role for the jazz this year and maybe had come to grips with who he was as a basketball player is not a starter. He's not a star. Bet coming off the bench. Maybe you can do something. I would agree with that. I thought he was good enough to be like a decent backup this year. And if they hadn't traded for Jordan Clarkson he probably would've stayed in that role So for him going forward I think I think he's shown that he probably has some value with the NBA level still I think it's been really surprising On the defensive end that he's been as unimpeachable as he's been because I think that was one of the things people thought with his size being athletic and stuff that he could really be a menace on that and it just never happened. I'd ING Detroit on Draft Night. It's been one of the tweets that's come back at me. A number of times for passing on justice winslow to take Stanley Johnson. Here at eight while I can argue that justice winslow as turned into a star or an all star he certainly was ended up better than Stanley. Johnson what happened with him like you say I think First of all he couldn't shoot and that never really got fixed and then Definitely like a kind of a bully ball guy developed sooner wasn't actually super athletic though actually had some trouble finishing at the rim even at Arizona. That kind of gave you a little hint of what might be to come for him at the next level and then. I the background on him to ended up being really important. Because you definitely heard stuff there. Yeah and it's interesting. I mean He. He was so highly touted but I saw the same thing. I saw him in the Maui. The MAUI tournament and I'm like there's no pop there's no real explosion here. This was a guy and I think kind of like the Shabazz Muhammad of the world. That were just physically able to dominate in high school. And then you can do it less so in college and then when you get to the NBA. You can't do Trey Lyles yes. He actually had a decent year in San Antonio this year like know. He's still fairly young but I I think the idea people had in their head of him is not what what he really is like. He's not the super stretch big hybrid forward. He's just more like an okay. Backup BACKUP WHO? Who shoots the ball? Pretty well shot. Saddam was thirty nine percent from three in San Antonio this year and the other is just not a lot a lot else there and But there was a lot of lot of guys that were very high trey lyles and thought he actually slipped a bit on draft night but this was one of those cases. Where like you said. I think people thought he was being held back in Kentucky and went. Actually I think kind of he was what he was. Okay John Thanks for coming back for another redraft. Next week we will be back redrafting. The two thousand nine NBA draft Blake Griffin. Goes One ASHIM. The beat goes to an MVP goes three. You've been listening to Ted Ford's NBA Big Board podcast network.

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Ep 12: NBA RE-DRAFT 2008

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:00:42 hr | 5 months ago

Ep 12: NBA RE-DRAFT 2008

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network. It is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy Chat Lahar you and listening to Chad Ford's NBA. Big Board on the lockdown. Podcast network. Before I jump into the podcast I want to talk to you about a nonprofit that is dear to my heart and that. I think basketball fans will want to support. I've been peace players biggest fan over the past fifteen years. Peace players is the perfect combination of my biggest passions basketball and peacebuilding. 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I will be donating all of my prophets to my new book. Dangerous love over the next two weeks if you preordered the book now when you head over to. Www dangerous love book dot com. I have also just recorded an episode of my other podcasts. Dangerous love pod featuring some of my favourite piece player participants from the Middle East Doha and toot. They take us through. An incredible journey of how being a part of peace players and a championship team for the last. Several years has completely changed their lives. It is powerful to say the least can tune into the podcast and preordered the book at this Special Link. Go to www dangerous love book dot com. I will donate all of my prophets if you click on the link and by the book please consider supporting peace players doubted important world. Changing 'cause today's show is brought to you by built bar like a candy bar. Go TO BUILT BAR DOT COM and use. Promo Code locked on. And you'll get ten dollars off your first order. I'm your host Chad Ford. I guess today is the athletic senior writer and host of the Hollinger and Dunkin. Podcast on the lockdown podcast network. John Welcome back John Chad. All right I like the Aloha. That was an enthusiastic. Aloha appreciate that. It's important okay. We're back with another redraft. Two Thousand Eight and if you remember from our past redrafts we are going to do this in the form of a mock draft and in that mock draft. We are going to alternate taking picks. We're GONNA do it based off of hindsight and really looking at what the best pick would have been or should have been in the draft. Two Thousand Eight is an interesting draft. There was a lot of buzz strath. John Yeah and with reason is it turns out but probably turned out a little differently than than people thought at the end of the day. You know we talk about using analytics in the draft and we talk about the importance of doing background on players to and I mean the guy in this draft. I mean Michael Beasley. Who was the second overall pick is analytics? Blew up the machine. But obviously he didn't make it Long-term approach for other reasons that had nothing to do with animal ride. And you look at the top of the draft and Derrick Rose Michael Beasley O j Mayo. We'll talk about him. Russell Westbrook Kevin Love. There is a a lot of very highly touted preps in this draft guys. That gotten a lot of buzz or just a lot of excitement there. Let's recap what happened in the lottery. The two thousand eight draft the Chicago Bulls had the number one pick. They took local hometown. Hero Derrick rose was a freshman of Memphis. The heat had the number two pick draft. They took Michael Beasley at of Kansas State. Who had an awesome awesome freshman season for Kansas State? The Minnesota Timberwolves had the third pick in the draft. They selected OJ. Mayo out of USC but then traded him to Memphis for Kevin love they swap essentially swapped picks three through five and Oj. Mayo major major buzz on. Oj Mayo from high school on the fourth. Pick in the draft. The Seattle Supersonics took Russell Westbrook out of UCLA. A little bit of a surprise. Pick that Westbrook went. This early turned out to be really really great. Call FOR SAN PRESS T v pick in the draft was Kevin love who gets traded to Minnesota out of UCLA and other prep legend. Kevin Love was for years. The Knicks had the six pick in the draft. They took Danilo Gallinari out of Italy. The HOT EUROPEAN NAME AT THE TIME. Many many people very very high on him at the seventh pick in the draft. The Clippers took Eric Gordon. Freshman out of Indiana nother very highly touted prep star in highschool eighth pick in the draft. The Milwaukee Bucks. Oh Boy Joe Alexander out of West Virginia. I'll tell Joe Alexander story a little bit later in the podcast number Ninth Pick Charlotte Hornets. Dj Augustine at a Texas number ten New Jersey Nets Brook Lopez out of Stanford Loveth pick in the draft. Indiana Pacers Jared Bela's out of Arizona. Twelve picking the draft Sacramento Kings. Jason Thomson Out of Rider University. Don't get to say that every day. Thirteenth Picnic Draft Kansas City homer Kansas homer Portland Trailblazers. Select Brandon Rush. Rush brothers. Can't be taking not just Kansas. Kansas City that actually raised an elevated even higher and with the draft the Golden State Warriors Selected Anthony Randolph. Out of LSU won. The redraft isn't GonNa look anything like what happened on draft night for a lot of different and unusual reasons there in this particular case. I think this is going to be a fun. Redraft to tackle John. I'm GONNA give you the first pick draft or the Chicago Bulls Derrick. Rose is on the board. He's a hometown hero. He plays for Memphis has an incredible. Nc Double A. Tournament. Are you gonNA take him number one. You know what in hindsight I'm not we're GONNA pass by the way on the former. Mvp of the entire league. And never one and who's GonNa take? I will take an MVP of the entire league though will take Russell Westbrook number one. And obviously his his staying power at that level was much higher than Derrick. Rose's and that's the difference difference in their career arcs. But he he to me is the guy from this draft to is on the most clear hall of fame trajectory and capable of being the best player on a on a really good team so no-brainer number one. Pick for me and it's interesting when you look at Rose Beasley Mayo. Love Eric Gordon huge huge. Prep Stars guys. That had major buzz starting from like being a junior in high school. Oj Mayo was actually. Eighth grade was when the bus started for him. He landed on a cover of sports illustrated. Russell. Westbrook was the guy that wasn't that Guy. He kind of came out of nowhere but man was he one of the freaky EST athletes I've ever ever seen coming in the draft. I think the question was what else was going to have to his game. Besides that Freakish. Athleticism that competitiveness and motor and he's really developed as a basketball player. Yeah exactly and I think the fact that he was so athletic that you could get on the floor. Right away really helped his progression as a point guard. I think if he had just been you know ten minutes a game and twelve G. League games or whatever I I think it would have been a lot harder for him. But if you're athletic enough to get on the floor right away at a young age I think that really helps your development trajectory especially in from the guard spots a historic triple double producer in the league. Burke averaged a triple double in the NBA season. One is about his game. That makes him so special in your mind. I mean I think it's just it's the athleticism and the motor. I've I think it's just even at the NBA level. Those two things are overwhelming. And He. He's he so he so good What you know burst. His burst just getting getting pass guys getting elevation Getting getting to the rim just constantly constantly constantly putting pressure on the defense he just doesn't stop he's relentless as a player there's a knock against West brick. It seems like he's a hard player to build the team around and to play with. Kevin durant leaves Oklahoma City. They go play with the warriors. There was a time when we really thought the thunder were going to be that it team they were going to be. The Dynasty in the League is his game suited to being that that can lead a team championship or is he too selfish in the way that he plays the game. Well you know. They got to the finals with him. They could potentially have gotten another one if he hadn't gotten hurt. I mean my first year in Memphis right. He hurt his knee. They were the number one seed in the West and we beat them in the second round when Westbrook was injured. So you're correct that he hasn't won a championship. There've been a lot of great players who haven't won a championship and that doesn't exclude them from being a player who could win a championship on the right team. So I I think he is a difficult player to play with. No question you you. You need certain pieces around him that fit correctly because he's going to be so high usage and the guys around him. Arkansas maybe see the ball as much as they would like and that's just a fact alike and also they can't ever get a rebound off opponent. Miss Free throw so. There's got to be that but I mean just an awesome talent though. I love him. I think the criticisms against him have been fairly unwarranted in this particular case. As you point out it's very very you know one team a year wins and NBA Championship. There's a lot of factors that go into that. I think Russell Westbrook is just been an awesome awesome. Nba Player. I love him. I love the way he approaches. The game never takes a second off and watching the last dance and watching the Bulls and watching a young Michael Jordan. You see some of that competitiveness and tenacity in Westbrook that you saw Jordan. Yeah yeah probably I mean pro. Probably the one guy from this nation who comes closest to that in terms of of just having that drive and bringing it every single night and You know you can question. Sometimes exactly the way he channeled although some of it had to do with just where skill level was a player as a player too. I think but no question about how hot that motor. We talk about motor. Sometimes talk about Iraq is was just ridiculously hot okay. The number two pick in the draft. The Miami Heat selected Michael Beasley. I don't think they they would do that. And by the way the red flags were there this was one where the Intel was already out there about potential Michael Beasley Challenges. Right right from the get-go this was a very known factor in the NBA. But the talent looked so overwhelmingly good analytics. Everything about his game just looked so good. I think the heat turned the other way and hope that their culture was going to be able to make the difference for Miami and it would have been just fascinating to see if he had panned out. What would have happened without Miami Heat team? Yeah although I guess it ended up working out because they ended up with the CAP room to get Lebron right. Yeah okay. I don't think we should credit Michael Beasley with Jack. This is a genius. Pick Brilliant Plan. Six dimensional chess. Here I'm going to select Kevin Love great out of UCLA and player. That in my mind has been a bit unfairly maligned in his career in and he started with a stellar prep career. But there was concern about his weight. That was a really big issue coming into this. Was He going to be in shape? What was he going to be like when he got in the NBA? He was a super athletic player. That carried a lot of weight. Had some knee injury issues but from a skill standpoint his ability to pass the basketball has ability to do just about everything on the floor it was always super high. It was how he was going to dedicate himself the conditioning and focus on the game. And I give Kevin Love so much credit he. He looks incredible compared to where you see these pictures of him in high school and even at Ucla he got in shape. He worked on his game. He played on a really bad Minnesota Timberwolves team for a number of years where I think people felt like the points that he put up a bit hollow. He gets the chance to join Lebron. He's overshadowed in many ways by Lebron James but he's critical and Kyrie irving to a certain extent but he's critical to the cavs winning the title there and then he lebron leaves and he's left in this really miserable situation in Cleveland that came to a head this year. I think Kevin Love is a much better and more important player in the NBA. He's been given credit for all these years Author of one pretty significant. Move that you don't really see much guy catches on the elbow. Fakes a pass and takes dribble backward to the three point line and launches. He did that better than anyone when he was in Minnesota. You don't see him do it as much quite anymore It's a shame. His best seasons were kind of wasted on bad Minnesota team crime. Kevin Love was really good. I mean offensively. He was just such a problem deal with because he could play on the perimeter. But then if you put a small on him he would just mash the guy in the glass so just just a really talented overall. Look at this. Current numbers eighteen points a game. Eleven rebounds a game shot thirty seven percent from three for his career and and those imbalanced passes and credible his ability to log yet launched the basketball like a NFL quarterback. Forecourt are just incredible. Yeah Probably Nicola. Yoga's is probably the only guy who can match him in recent NBA on. That would've been a great pick for Miami again. I think he's underrated in many ways because of his career but he is an NBA champion. And I love Kevin Love and I hope he ends up being in a good spot for the rest of his career. It's the Minnesota Timberwolves. They made a smart trade trading. Oj For Kevin. Love but by far the best personnel. Move the Kevin McHale era great trade there. They selected O J Mayo. And this case for Memphis the Memphis Grizzlies. Your former team. You had nothing to do with this. We can't we can't we cannot Pinochet. This was four and a half years before I got there so thick. So here's where I'm going to go with the short short-term Supernova or the over the maybe longer overall career value and take derrick rose I think ultimately you know you're in this to win championships to have liked the elite level talent. Even as I short amount of time. Derrick rose's peak was far better than any of these other players that are left and he was the best player on a team with the best record in the NBA. Even though they didn't win the championship His those two seasons Chicago were were so good that I think the that alone just puts him ahead of the rest of the board so he's my pin number three and he looked like he was done like just done done because of the injuries and he's put together a really. Nice Second Act. Nice Nice little renaissance here like he was a really good six man for the Pistons. This year was pretty good Minnesota the year before like he's it's it's been surprising because I think everyone saw where the trajectory was heading like. When you use with the Knicks and stuff. It was like all right here. We go you know like and and he's kind of had a little renaissance here which has been really fun to see another freaky freaky athlete. That when you watched him play Memphis there was this times that he did things that your jaw just hit the floor. Great Work Ethic if it wasn't for the injuries and let's say the derrick rose stays healthy through the Levin Eleven years of his career twelve years of his career. Where does he land on this board? Does he beat Russell Westbrook? Yeah I'm still not sure he catches Westbrook. That's a tough one. I mean peak. Westbrook was really good. I mean average a triple double for the year. Obviously I think he probably lands second he he would beat out. Kevin Love Certainly I. I don't know if his career value be enough to catch westbrook even if he had stayed healthy. Russ Russell to a really high level. I mean rose one that MVP but it was a little bit about the story as much as it was the season and the level he was playing at which was still really high. Don't get me wrong but I think peak westbrook to a higher level. Yeah you take Russell Westbrook's MVP year over Derrick rose's MVP year absolutely. Yeah okay. That's number three fourth. Picking the draft Seattle Supersonics. The SAM press TV for an incredible run in the draft of taking Kevin Durant then taking Russell Westbrook and taking James Harden three MVP's and by the way he got Serge Ibaka Twenty four in this draft to surge balk at twenty four. Who I think is going to make it in the lottery. May even the highlighter. Make an appearance on this Joe. I am predicting brochure. Incredible drafting and fortunately those guys Russell Westbrook's on the board anymore. I'm going to go with a guy that for a time was sitting at like in the six to ten range on my big board plummets on draft night and proves everybody wrong Andre Jordan. Yeah Pretty Pretty Amazing story here. Yeah he had a bad year. Texas am right but I you know maybe maybe people over Played that a little. It's harder with college pigs. I've always felt to evaluate them because they're more system depended they need people to feed them. They can't just dribble up and shoot it and I think Andre Jordan is a great example. he he wasn't in a maybe a great environment. They're a Texas. A&m Shea. To his credit who is running the clippers at the time grabs him thirty five and turns into in an all star center for the clippers and always an elite rebounder. Good defender never quite anything really on the offensive end as dominant offensive player but has been so good defensively and certainly a guy that can rim run and and and take C. I actually think I actually think is offensive. Value was pretty good because his rim. Ron was so devastating. Because you could throw the ball to the moon and he could still go up and catch it and dunk it so you really had to tag him hard and that opened up a lot of other things on the core even though he was quote unquote just to Dunker. So I I actually think his his offense value was more than people perceived and his defensive value was maybe not white as what people perceive because a shop locking was awesome and stuff but some of the other subtle stuff he maybe wasn't great at but overall like a valuable player without a doubt and he's he's had a long NBA career he still doing stuff in the NBA. Yeah exactly so. He's still piling up value here. He's got. He's got three years left on his deal with Brooklyn so it helps to have import helps to have important friends right. Yeah totally pan out. Grady said thirty thirty one years old right now but I think as far as Bisco. He's really had a long and productive career fifth pick in the draft. You get a draft for the grizzlies. Nice well this is perfect. Because I spent seven years with the grizzlies trying to trade for this guy and I never could. He would have been. So good for US Danilo Ari just lights out shooter but even more than that kind of that playmaking three four. He could put the ball on his floor. Get his own shot. Drew a ton of fouls had some health issues. Missed a year in New York with the back Damage his career. Totals a little bit but really highly valuable player that I think the casual fan. Maybe didn't understand the value of him because of his floor spacing dimension and the fact that you couldn't hide bad defenders on him even the way you can was some other guys who were quote unquote justice shooter and so really brought a lot of value there and then was. I'm not gonNA say was like defensive player of the year or anything but he was competent enough at that and to the court that he didn't hurt you and what he brought you. Offense was so good that even though he was never an all star I just think the value he gave you positionally from those spots is worth more than anyone else on the board and it was an interesting pick for the Knicks. Obviously Knicks fans not loving national prospects. But not only was he could for the Knicks. He was the key piece in a trade that gets them Carmelo. Anthony Yeah and so key piece key piece for the nuggets certainly and yeah an an important part of the next history certainly and honestly I mean the Knicks had a couple of good years with Carmelo. We shouldn't we should knock that too much. I mean they certainly were repaid in that trade but I saw Gallinari play over in Italy. He comes from a basketball family. He's one of these guys that just like we were a little bit talking about with Lamelo Ball like he just knows how to play the game and the feel for the game the basketball IQ coming from that basketball family off the charts. And You wonder a little bit. The back injury some other things if he had stayed completely healthy his whole career whether that would have helped his game even more. Yeah could he had closer to like a pages? Soyinka Vich career if he if he had stayed fully healthy yeah. That's that's actually a really great comp of of where I think he could be okay. We will be back with pick six ten on the next segment with John. Hollinger you're listening to Chat Ford's Mba big board on the lock podcast network. I WanNa talk to you about. Our new sponsor built bars. I'm a runner and I've been constantly looking for a great tasting. Low sugar high protein energy bar really for the last decade. I've tried every brand but usually get turned off by the high sugar content or Chaki bad taste. They leave in my mouth. Then I found built bars in. I'm crazy about them. They taste better than any energy bar. I've ever tried. They're soft their shoe. We have sixteen amazing flavors and they are loaded with protein and contain a few grams of sugar and Net carbs. They are the equivalent of a healthy candy bar for someone who tries to stay away from both sugar and carbs their incredible my go-to bar after a run his coconut almond it tastes like an almond joy without all the sugar and carbs and with an incredible eighteen grams of protein. I'm also crazy about the Brownie. The orange chocolate cream and the salted caramel chocolate. I'd probably be crazy about the peanut butter flavors but my wife and daughter snatched them every time. I get a box before I can get a bite. The cool thing is that on their website. They let you mix and match the bars. You want in any combination so everyone gets their favorite so go to bill BAR DOT COM use. Promo code locked on and you'll get ten dollars off your first order. Use Promo Code locked on for ten dollars off at built Bar Dot Com. This is the home of the number one fantasy basketball show. Hello and welcome to the looked on fantasy vase full caused. This is the home of the smartest basketball podcast around the hall injure and Duncan NBA show. I'm Nate Duncan joined by John Hollinger. This is the home of the fastest growing. Nba podcast rejecting the screen though Kozlov on the East Coast and the West Coast Adam Stink. Oh this is the home of the number one daily basketball network. This is the locked on podcast network your team every day and we're back redrafting the two thousand eight NBA draft Russell Westbrook's off. The board loves off the board. Derrick rose is off the board. The Andre Jordan's off the Board Danilo Gallinari off the board. The Knicks are next with the sixth. Pick in the draft. And to me there was a bit of a drop off here and and a number of guys that I think have had somewhat similar careers that you could think about here drafting. I'm not sure that there's a clear guy necessarily than I. Yeah that that I would take over over someone else right here. I'M GONNA go with Serge. Ibaka the twenty four th pick in the draft as we pointed out a Sam Prestige really really nailing this here and an a player that was interesting because as an international prospect. There was a lot of buzz around the Baka that people just weren't really sure where he was going to end up becoming as an offensive player. I think defensively people saw that potential. That was there. The question was on offense. What was he going to become and he became a really nice offensive player ends up shooting thirty six percent from three throughout his career yet. His evolution is a shooter was a really important story here. Because that was the part that you couldn't really you couldn't really pencil in at the time he was drafted and that's why he was taken twenty fourth which seems ridiculous now but big time shop locker rebounder important part of Oak City teams and then obviously WanNa Championship in. Toronto is past season and just been an all around great. Great Guy to have on your team. If he did anything that messed up anybody. It was the Orlando Magic trading for him and trading. I think it was all the depot. Yeah and Democracy Bonus for him and then him being a major disappointment in Orlando but then coming back and being a critical piece in the Toronto Raptors run. I've I've just always really admired a baca. Who He is and how. He's played the game and again there's nothing flashy about his game but he helped the teams that he played on win a really high level and still continues to do it. I mean he had one of his best seasons this year. So he's still. He's still writing chapters in his book. And it's really interesting because when he was at Orlando. I think the feeling that concern was that he had already been questions about his age and how old he really was. And I think there was some concern at when he was at Orlando that maybe he was older than people thought. And he was he was just tailing off in his career. But as you as you pointed out in a really really nice season okay. You are on the board with the clippers. Yeah see here's where it gets fascinating because this is so interesting to me because these guys are we get into now. The Arcs of their careers are all so different. And so- irregular and they kind of defy this. We have in this ad that there will be cleaned projection. Yeah He's twenty and then he improved till he's twenty seven and then he starts going down a little like all. These guys are kind of left that we're looking at are all over the place right in the course of their careers. here's a good example. Brook Lopez who Brook Lopez's. It's going to be my pick here so I'll get to that part. I write made the All Star team twenty thirteen a couple years later. He signed with the Lakers for peanuts. Then all of a sudden he's back in Milwaukee as a major part is one of the best teams in the League and getting all defense consideration. Which I don't think anyone possible ever and then the other evolution is game which is really interesting is he turned to a three point shooter at the age of. Twenty eight basically in Brooklyn and you wonder if he had done that earlier in his career if he could have added more value to his name so really interesting career trajectory here. That's still ongoing and another guy who's always been you know pretty. Well regarded by teammates. Good guy to have around It's weird. He's basically been durable except he missed most of two different seasons and otherwise has been Like a seventy games guy every year and the Super Goofy Guy who has a twin brother who also has had a pretty solid career in the NBA When do you get twin centers that are actually going to both still be playing in the League? Yeah and and one of them actually plays offense so they got the collins. Brothers beat right there. In my opinion Lopez way outperformed where I thought he would actually be as a basketball player. I thought ten was actually a little bit of a stretch for him and he as you pointed out. He's made himself into all sorts of things that I just didn't see coming in. His career turned to making the player that he was for plotting. Slow Post player which is basically what he was when he was drafted right to be the guy. He is in two thousand twenty at age. Thirty one I think is pretty fascinating. I don't know who to take next. It's the bucks there at eight. I know not to take Joe Alexander Okay. You're you're already ahead of the game here who was an explosive athlete and a workout. Wonder and one of those guys that when you talk about is it okay that the NBA isn't going to be able to do individual workouts. This is a guy that teams fell in love with an individual workouts because of the athleticism because of the freaky things. I can't remember what it was but I think it. I think he hurt his Chin on the rim in one of the workouts like he actually cut his chin on the rim doing a workout for a team. And then you know that just goes I mean he could really really jump out of the Joe Alexander. Good and that became the excitement that got got everybody. You know too excited important player in Grizzlies Lore to you know the grizzlies this is. This is way before I got there. But they were looking at Trading Mike. Conley for Joe. Alexander knob Ramon sessions. You remember that I'm GonNa go at eight for the bucks with Nick Batum. Yeah that's a nice pick you know you look at the totality of these guys career rather than just what they've done lately and when you look at that but tomb really starts to rise because early in his career. He was as good as anybody on this list. Practically outside the top three guys he really was and the blazers especially those years with the Blazers. And you're talking about a really fantastic basketball player in interesting than international player as well. That had a lot of buzz early on that you could see it in the workout. He slides all the way to twenty fifth the Houston on draft night and never could quite understand why Batumi because view like watched him at like the Nike Hoop Summit for example. He he was good. I mean it was. It was clear at least in my mind that between was going to be really good basketball player. I think this was still in the era where there were still some skepticism about international players. Maybe the same with the Baka where teams just weren't GonNa Gamble really high on him. Even though in this particular case he he really was in my mind stud even even before he was drafted. Yeah he showed. I mean he was able to start almost immediately. I think it was in his his second season with the Blazers. He's able to start as a twenty year old for them right on team that was really good and and play an important role. He started seventy six games as a rookie. Okay I take I take it back. I'm going from memory here yeah. Eighteen minutes a game only average five point four points per game and so you know his role obviously inoffensive and was limited but doubles that in this next season in Portland and then just increases from there. What what happened so I you know. I think he clearly lost a step as he got older and it got really hard for him to both to create separation on the offensive end and then he didn't have quite as much defensive value is he had had he has his career high in points in. Charlotte and two thousand sixteen seventeen. But he's only shooting forty percent from the field and so he's putting a lot of shots but they're not going in at the same rate anymore and then it just starts to drop off a cliff after that. Unfortunately you know. That's summer of twenty sixteen. I mean that was just when every bad contract was signed. And he's he's the last one standing because he got a five year deal in the other guys all got four is he's he's the final The final salvo of that that summer twenty sixteen. So if we were drafting today Batumi would not be pick but again impart were looking at the totality of their careers. Yeah exactly not not just to win a game tomorrow Charlotte Hornets on the board at number nine yeah so they took Dj Augustine. I think I can get him a guard. Who's a little bit better than that We're going to go with George Hill. Good she'd surprise. Some people George Hill over Gord rog edge over. Gordon's Oh yeah a George. Halen Gordon Drag. It was really the the debate here. George Hill his peak season Was probably with the Pacers. Probably about as good as dragages. Best Season in Phoenix. And I think over the course of his career. He got started sooner. Retained more of his value even to date than drug. Chaz Mike is probably a better right now than dragages and I just think his overall career value just a little higher more of a two way player not as good on the ball but just such a good outside shooter. Good defender long arms multiple multi-positional been apart a couple of really important. Good Teams in San Antonio in Indiana and now in Milwaukee We won't talk about the Sacramento and Cleveland Year and I just has had a tremendous career and is still ticking. Kind of an interesting backstory with him. He he plays at a small school comes out of Indiana Classic Spurs pick. They immediately develop him into an interesting play. Actually starts forty three games for the spurs during the second season in part because of some injuries to Tony Parker and it's the two thousand eleven NBA draft. The Pacers are looking for a starting guard. They want to get to the next level. Coli Leonard is on the board. The Spurs. Don't WanNa Trade George Hill. They they love him. He's a big part of their culture but Kawhi Leonard is falling on draft night and the Pacers make the infamous trade with the fourteenth pick who ended up being quite Leonard who believe it or not fell all the way to fourteenth because of some injury concerns about his knee. Four George Hill. This was George Hill was a really great. Get for the Pacers. But they'll also forever be known of trading quite Leonard for him. Yeah such an interesting draft night. What if and I mean the balls took for the spurs for all the kind of consistency and people talk about them being kind of boring monotonous whatever to dive in at that exact moment and and make a really risky in some ways. Trade right to get this player. And what that really extended their dynasty it another five years and it could have been another dozen years if things worked out there with them and it was a really big risk for the for the Spurs and they did love George Hill and this was very very tough trade for them to make and I think if it had been any other player other than quite Leonard. They don't make the trade. An Indiana doesn't get doesn't get George Hill it was. It was Colli Leonard. And how they felt like he was going to fit into the Spurs and and his work ethic and everything else that that pushed them over the top. Just an interesting side note about things that happened on draft night I was privy to some of that information kind of coming back and forth and draft night. I mean it was touching. Go kind of right up into right up until the time that the pick was made whether they were going to do it. But again that's why the spurs the Spurs and they. They made a really really smart smart move in and George Hill. As you pointed out is had a really nice career. He just hasn't had a quiet Leonard. Type exactly okay. We are on the board now with ten pick in the draft. That's the New Jersey Nets. They took Brook Lopez. You've already selected Brook Lopez. I'm not gonNA take Brook Lopez's brother in response. Unfortunately and this is where I'm going to go ahead and draft guy who ended up going forty fifth in the strath Gordon dragging men what was up with the international players following the way that they fell in the draft rugged falls to forty five a Bacha falls the twenty four but tomb falls the twenty five and they all end up being in my mind top ten players in this draft and it wasn't like drag. It was some sort of mystery international player. He was having a very good career in Europe. He was very well regarded as a point guard. And someone who could play both positions on the floor and his peak years were really really good and he's like like you said he's dropped off a little bit and that's that's unfortunate but when you look at the best years of Gordon Drag. He was very exciting. Point Guard halley absolutely and very good pick and roll point guard really developed his shooting ability which I think was the key swing skill for him his rookie year. He couldn't shoot it all then. He came out his second year in east as in threes and and that just changed the whole gain for him and you know interesting trajectory because again a lot of these guys. It wasn't linear drag. It's went to went to Houston. Had A good year. Then had a not so great year ended up back in Phoenix and then re really kind of had his best years. Then out of the blue there That second tour in Phoenix and then went to Miami and was able to keep it going for a couple years before we started maybe tail off the last year or two good good career and a Guy. I would describe as like an Eastern Conference. All Star. Right wasn't quite good enough to evercrack that list and in the western conference but Was able to make it in the east two years where he averages twenty points a game one in Phoenix. When in Miami and this is one where I'll just slightly disagree with you. I would've had him ahead of George Hill. I feel like his peak years that year in Phoenix. That two thousand sixteen seventeen year in Miami were better than the best George Failures. It's time for another break. John will be back with picks eleven to fourteen on the next segment John. Hollander you're listening to Ted Ford's Mba big board on the lockdown podcast network. And we're back redrafting two thousand eight. Nba Draft Pick Eleven Union. A Pacers were on the board. They took jared Bela's and traded him to Portland. Well let me do something from Indiana here then Since we're fighting about mid-decade Pacers. I'm going to go ahead and take Roy Hibbert right here. The alright you forget about it. He only played nine years in the League but he was the defensive player of the year. You know we talk about in the draft. You're trying to get high and outcomes and I think for for a few years there. He was a really valuable player on an important team. That you know couldn't quite get through Miami in the Eastern Conference finals. But they were really good and Roy. Hibbert was really central to what they did made two all star teams somehow. Only one all defense team was second team but he was. I mean you talk about verticality. This was the guy who sort of reinvented verticality in the NBA. He had about six really good seasons. Yeah yet league but when they were good they were really good and interestingly in a different age does Roy Hibbert do anything in the NBA. I think it's harder for them. Because once team's figured out they could drag him out to the perimeter. The game immediately got very hard for him and it was sudden that said I think teams have also gotten smarter about playing zone and screams switching and doing some other stuff to protect bigs who aren't super mobile so I think it would have helped them that way but you know offensively. It'd never had a huge role head a little bit of touched around the basket and stuff and he was big. He could do some stuff you know I is it as prominent as it was in twenty fourteen probably not But I I mean. Is there a role for him? Like God I have to think. They're still role for him in the League. Yeah Okay it's the twelfth. Pick in the draft the Sacramento Kings Jason Thompson. Was there pick out of rider university? One of these redrafts. We're GONNA like the Kings pick. It'll be the deer and Fox draft but one of these. We're going to be like the key. 'cause they made a really great pick. I think I know I certainly narrowed it down. It wasn't this one. I'm going with Erik Gordon here. And to me Erik Gordon. High Level Score Average. Sixteen points a game for his career has a couple of seasons re averages twenty points a game has season in. Houston where he averaged eighteen points a game. Most of that coming off the bench for them turned into a pretty good thirty seven percent. Three point shooter very highly regarded as a prep and I think some injuries hurt him a bit both in college and then later on in the pros but to me a guy who as you talk about someone who has become a classic six-man score off the bench can play multiple positions on the floor and is still going strong. Averaged Average fifteen points a game for Houston. This year dropped off pretty dramatically in his three point shooting this year but is still plays a pivotal role on a really really good basketball needs. Sixteen points a game career Had some injury issues like you said interesting. Because he's kind of a road not taking guy for us to Two Thousand Sixteen when everyone shot money out of firehose Use Our backup plan if we didn't get him Parsons so that probably would have worked out. Better yeah and it's really interesting though right like people were taking chandler. Parsons over. Eric Gordon. There was a there was he. Kinda got reality definitely at the time there. The health concerns about him. No question. I mean those four years in New Orleans or I'm sorry. Five years in New Orleans played nine forty to sixty four sixty one in forty five games so I mean there were there. Were some injury concerns. They're definitely But unfortunate you know he he he also you know grew up playing with Mike Conley. There's just that whole connection there so that that's one that I think about a lot. Just in terms of rose not taken in Memphis will. He landed on a on a great fit team for HIM WITH HOUSTON. The Way Houston plays. It was really a no brainer for him and I actually think that also his career may have turned out a little differently in Memphis than it ended up turning out in. Houston where I think. He was playing in the perfect system for him. F definitely would have been different in Memphis. Yeah without a doubt ad. You just wonder like we still had rebuild the team. So He'd be He'd be somewhere else right now. Okay Portland Trailblazers on the board. They ended up trading for jury bailiffs and Brandon. Rush ENDS UP GOING TO INDIANA. Who Do you take it thirteen not Kansas guy? No I'M GONNA take the most underrated player the grit and grind era and the one people forget about accordingly. Good outside shooter. Good defender knew how to play Always kept herself in. Great shape always stayed on the floor. just a tremendous pro and a good two way player. Who LIKE IN? A in a playoff situation really helped you could. You could always have him on the court. David Thorpe things. Jay This is David David. Thorpe's Guy Courtney Lee and again a guy that I think coming out. A Western Kentucky probably underrated as a player because of that career thirty nine percent. Yeah yeah point shooter. Yeah and beyond that because he was never like a super high volume three point shooter tremendous pull up shooter in an era where pull up jump? Shooting was probably more valued than it is today. All right at least me with the fourteenth pick the draft the warriors. They took a guy. Anthony Randolph that. I actually really liked her so much potential there. It didn't work out for him. And so I've got a couple of options. Here Got Ryan Anderson. Out of California. Who for a number of seasons was the these stretch stretch for guy in the League? I HAVE DJ Augustine. Who has had a remarkably long career in the NBA? At a Texas to Vail McGee then option Mario chalmers at a Kansas tempted. Robin Lopez Stanford. I'm going to go this very safe here with. Dj Okay so Barrio. Chalmers made one of the most important shots in Kansas basketball history. And you're not drafting college players. Turn your back on him. He's a good Perot to he was a good pro and and I love Mary. Chalmers and I will always love Mary chalmers when he hit that shot. I'm as as everybody knows. I'm a big Kansas Fan. I I'll never forget it. I was I was at home. My kids were kind of milling around and leapt off the couch. In over the coffee table was the greatest of my life screaming and all of my kids started simultaneously crying. They thought like something horrible had happened because the the well that was let out at that moment. That was a great great moment for me. But if I'm talking about longevity in the League at impact in the League talking about minutes played and just overall what's happened? Dj Augustine I think has had the better career than counts. Well I'll tell a funny charmer story anyway. Grizzlies fans because of that shot. Were pissed when we traded for him twenty sixteen and but he He quickly won them over. He was probably the best backup point. Guard in the League. your rehab him until he unfortunately tore his. Achilles and missed out on what would have been A. I'm sure a hilarious. Pay That twenty sixteen market so always felt bad about that but it was interesting because the the crowd turns so quickly from like. Oh Man Mariel charmer so like. Hey I love this guy it. It doesn't take all right. Let's talk about a few guys that we didn't draft sure Michael Beasley wet number two and I know we wanna talk about off-court stuff and that was that was clearly you know part of it. But that wasn't the total picture for why Beasley didn't become as good as we thought it could become an MBA little bit inbetween. Positions actually wasn't quite a great shooter but wasn't was a little undersized as a four so there's definitely some of that going on too. I think and some of that fool this a little bit of Kansas State. He had he had put up huge rebounding numbers at Kansas State but averaged four point seven rebounds a game for his career in the NBA. If I'm remembering that correctly and never was quite the shooter that he looked like he was to twelve and a half rebounds a game at Kansas State. Which is Pretty incredible was thirty. Eight percent. Three three point shooter at Kansas State. Thirty five percent. Not Bad defensively. I think that was another major red flag for Michael Beasley. And you just you know I think a lot of people a lot of times you see the ability and figure guys will get it because usually that's what happens but sometimes they just never get it. He still plays eleven years league phase. Six hundred nine games has played more games than Derrick rose or or OJ males in most games. The top three picks was Michalis and that may surprise some people but yeah just a massive disappointment got multiple chances to turn it around. Never did O J Mayo a little bit of the Jabari Parker Syndrome to when you get labeled in eighth grade or ninth grade as a star fully Lopez like. There's nowhere to go down right. And it's impossible for a scout to know in eighth grade or ninth grade. Really what a guy is gonna be and lived with those burdens and those expectations really his whole career. What happened out. I think he could really shoot but he actually wasn't a super athlete and So that that hurt him at the pro level and then I I think because all those accolades he didn't totally know who he was a player and what he was supposed to be and was trying to be the guy which he's not the only guy to get caught up in that And and I don't think he ever quite figured it out and then the other thing that happened once he even went to Milwaukee just got heavy and it a little bit of a surprise that by the age of twenty eight. He's out of the League completely. Oh absolutely yeah because even even his you remember. I mean the beginning of his rookie year. He was still really good and you but he to me like he started out where he was on. More of like a Reggie Miller trajectory where if was gonna make it it was going to be as lights out shooter. I think in his mind he was going to make it. As the Guy who took twenty three dribbles and then chuck the poll up. You know at the shot clock. Buzzer and that was never. The Guy should have been an you know interesting that rookie year shot thirty eight percent from three average eighteen and a half points. A game next year Memphis was essentially the same season seventeen and a half points a game and then he has that little run in Dallas. Right fifteen point game shot forty percent from three averaged four and a half assists a game and I think that was another thing that we thought Mayo was going to be a higher assist guy. Maybe a little bit more of a facilitator than he earned out to be still scratch my head just a little bit on. Oj Mayo. And why he wasn't able to carve a niche in the League. I get why he wasn't a star in the League but I'm a little bit surprised given the shooting ability and some of the other things that were there that he couldn't have done. I'd completely forgotten about that Dallas season. Let's talk about Joe Alexander. What happened here. Two Years in the league sixty seven games played seven hundred and forty five minutes. I mean this is. This is pretty crazy for a number eight pick in the draft. Yeah I you know. I think it was obvious from the word go. I mean. They didn't pick up his option. You know at the beginning of the second season so they I mean. They knew pretty quickly that they blew the pick which is good. I mean some teams. Just keep around for four years just to save face. I mean. At least they didn't do that but now while they had one season in Milwaukee that was Eddie averaged twelve minutes. A game plays an eight games for the Chicago Bulls is career is over. Yeah one of the cautionary tales to me again about falling in love with workout guys with amazing athleticism and say this. You wonder if there had been a G. League if they've been able to salvage that pick a little better. Do you WanNa talk about Anthony Randolph? You talk about the guys in this draft with interesting career trajectories right because his rookie year looked mouth-watering right. You'd see the sky with all the length and he's able to handle the ball block shots Never Really Kinda put it all together though into a great package and oddly though he's had this whole second chapter overseas where he gained Slovenian citizenship in one European Championship and Is One of the most important players on a Real Madrid rate and his is really carved out a really nice career for himself over. There is probably now good enough to play in the NBA real. But he's doing well enough over there that there's really not much point in it. He's yeah he's thirty years old and it is really interesting that some people do find a second life in Europe and when they do it's rare that NBA teams actually. Give them another look to bring them back to the NBA and even if they do come back. It's pretty rare that then that transition turns them from really good European player into. Yeah and sometimes that could be a financial thing to where they have to go from making three million with all their taxes paid overseas to get in a minimum in the NBA. So it can be hard that way too. Well you've been listening to our two thousand eight NBA redraft. I been with John Hollander. We will come back and we will tackle the two thousand fifteen NBA draft. Were Carl towns. What number one you've been listening to Ted Ford's NBA Big Board on the lock. Don podcast network.

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Emergency NBA Draft Lottery Pod | The Ringer NBA Show

The NBA Show

52:28 min | 1 year ago

Emergency NBA Draft Lottery Pod | The Ringer NBA Show

"Hey, it's list. Kelly and welcome to the ringer podcast network before you get to the show. Make sure you check out the ringer dot com. For our extensive NBA playoff coverage leading up to the NBA finals. Also look out for a twenty nineteen NBA draft guide which now features fifty Kevin O'Connor scouting reports. The draft guide has a first-round mock draft big board rankings from our draft experts like Jonathan sharks, Danny Chow and much more to come leading up to the draft itself on June. Twentieth. Once again, check out the ringers twenty nineteen NBA draft guide and all of our NBA coverage over on the ringer dot com. Hello and welcome to a special emergency edition of the ringer NBA show. My name is Chris Ryan, I am joined by two very special guests New Orleans own on of jazz. Justin, various, no and our buddy in morning. Jason Concepcion, actually fine. I feel fine. You felt fine before because you knew you were going to get them. Yeah. And now you didn't get him. That's fine Zion. Williamson we'll be going to the New Orleans pelicans at a six percent chance of winning the NBA draft lottery. The New York Knicks at a fourteen percent chance they were in the final four. They wind up with the third pick. So enjoy cameras Jason the floor is yours. Tell me how you're feeling well when the fifth and fourth picks dropped and I didn't see a Knicks card. My bloodstream turned into cocaine, and I had the taste of blood in my mouth and that point. And I believe I began climbing the side of the studio I said don't do that need you. Then I saw them come out. Two three. And that's fine. We're getting K D. I feel good. That's honestly, it's a fine. Katie probably would have been like trade that pick. Anyway, because I wanna get eighty or whatever. And that brings me to what I want to say, which is this is the most rigged outcome of a all six percent and everybody knows eighties leaving. He's leaves the franchise will just sink into the littoral ground. It will fill with swamp by you water, and it will be a home for crocodiles and fearful boa constrictors. Vero? And that will be it that will be for the New Orleans pelicans. And Adam silver saw this and heard the pleas of the ownership group. And was like, oh, yeah. We'll get up. We'll get his eye on. And then in eighty goes, this will soften the blow. I'm not saying. That's what happened. But I've saying that's what happened people are saying, maybe people are saying that I believe it. It's rigged. That's it. That's all it. Okay. I mean, like listen again, we're getting K D. I feel good. What happens if you don't get Katie? Well, that's tough. Extremely really tough at that point. I will I will feel betrayed by many many people I'd start with rich Kleinman, and I moved down. I'd just go several rungs down until I'm at like, literally, my parents and stuff, but there would still be a silver lining in that they'd have financial flexibility some legitimately, okay pieces and Mitch and Kevin Knox's a great piece. Everybody out there who hasn't watched the NBA in a little bit. You might flip him for a couple of picks rookies picks solid rookie season. If you read Shamas tweet from today, so so they'd have flexibility, and you know, you could spin up on as your smart about it at a decent clip. From that position. It's not the worse. It least you don't have capped out with like terrible guy. I love your up to visit. And thank you very much. It's good that they ended up at three and not to brand probably wouldn't wanna play with Kyrie. So now you have RJ on the wing instead. And now you don't have to deal with the Lakers getting it too. That's the other silver lining that was that was the fun thing is Bill. Absolutely losing his shit as in appeared that the Lakers were in it. I thought to have a stroke. I honestly he was like shuffling through papers. I don't even know what Stati was looking through our live Twitter show Bill and Ryan russillo. And Bill when the Lakers vaulted into the top four I thought Bill was going to have a harder time. Yeah, it's insane. But it is particularly cruel that they ended up at four. Yes. In a free player believable. Because I was asking you guys before who even for. Even before he is able to come up with two guys one of whom we didn't we weren't. Sure. His last day. Right. Exactly. Get really we'll become draft experts over the next month. Everybody's gonna be like there's this Georgian guy. So I'm glad like five would have been horrible. Like, that's like, I don't even know what bowl bowl like who. Is who is out there? You know? So I feel good. I feel fine. Like, it was it was intended almost a relief to have this debut over. Yes. Because I've been through this. Yeah. You know what? I mean. Yes. I know what this is like there's been so many Sixers lotteries, I can't even count them. We've won some we've lost some we've won someone. We've lost them. Yeah. You know? I just think it's it's an exit nerve wracking experience, and my body can't take this much energy. I there is a lot of nitro there before the lottery. All right. Jason. Thank you so much for joining us man, you need to take off you wanted to sit in on the New Orleans celebration. Thanks for having me. I can't even say the word New Orleans. Okay. Thank you. This your funeral procession. Thank you so much Jason Concepcion. The rigors biggest Knicks fan for joining us here on the ringer NBA show. All right. Let's kind of set the table here a little bit. So we've got our draft order for the two thousand nineteen NBA draft the New Orleans pelicans get the number one pick. They had a six percent chance going into this draft lottery landing that pick David Griffin their new executive vice president of basketball czar over there new newly-installed taking over for the long-serving del Dem's. They've got the Anthony Davis situation to deal with now they come at this from a position of so much increase leverage. It's the most the most leverage they could possibly hope to come out of tonight with and not for nothing. They get the most sought after coveted hyped draft prospect since Anthony Davis who's also still on the New Orleans pelicans, pretty good. You've covered the New Orleans pelicans. You've lived in New Orleans, you know, the fan base, you know, the. The organization I'm wearing a defendant Orleans shirt talk to me a little bit about what landing this pick means for this franchise right now. Well, you say perhaps they have leverage I would counter and say perhaps they have the next dynasty in NBA. I think this is on the table. Now, what we talked about for months was how Anthony Davis is such an impressionable guy. He will go with whichever way the wind is blowing who is in his ear last. And now perhaps he's looking around. And he seemed drew holiday quietly asserting himself as one of the best guards in the NBA. And as you just mentioned the best prospect he could possibly hope for since himself and the one thing constantly standing in his way throughout his tenure was he did not want to play true center. Even at his best. He had a guy like Nikola miratec who would guard bigger guy playoffs guys use of nurse. Well, Zion is a big boy, he's a thick guy. And so you have almost like the perfect versatile. Front court mate to go with you. So if they can get over whatever toxic relationship they had throughout the end of the season and David Griffin a guy who's worked with Rich Paul pretty closely before in Cleveland, I think they have the potential to flip this around keep him. And all of a sudden they are the team in the captured seat just from a roster standpoint not from a trade field. Tell me a little bit about what they're going into this season in terms of their books, and in terms of their cap, and in terms of who they could hope because now all of a sudden also one thing that we've never really said about New Orleans is they become a free agent destination if they can fortify Davis if they can say, okay. Like, this is obviously what we're going to be for the next eight to ten years. Come do this here, you'll be a legend forever? If you do that. So what are they looking at cap wise? And then also if they need to or feel like they want to trade Davis. What could this team be here? So my back of the envelope. Calculation to have twenty four million available if they renounce everybody. That means Julius Randle who has an option for this next season. I think it's I think it's a player option. The so that becomes a little bit complicated, you'd presume considering how successful he was on a statistical level, and he's twenty four he would want cash that in for something long-term instead of just like going for that free money and asked just so much money available the summer that is the complication the one good thing that they did last year was they didn't panic and trade Solomon hill as a negative asset. Now, they have an expiring contract. Person on the planet who said that's gradually. I mean, he is he is hurt them in so many ways since they signed that contract since they'll Dem's convinced himself that is pre draft analysis of Solomon hill was way better than anybody else. He was gonna bring him into the system, and he was going to be the wing that they needed. Now, he is an asset where you could maybe dump a future pick and get that money back. So all of a sudden it's possible that they can get max space. Okay. And now you're looking at like, we talked before the show maybe Tobias Harris guy I wanted to especially wanted to discuss here. What the lottery results due for not necessarily the draft, which I think is confusing draft that I think outside of number one. There's a possibility for a lot of movement. But what it means for this free agency class, and what it means for navy, not your Durant's and Kalis, but possibly that Tobias Middleton Horford Casale level of a free agent. Well, I mean a guy. That they kicked around New Orleans bright before he got traded to Philadelphia was Jimmy Butler. And I think he would make a lot of sense on that roster really depends on what the time line looks like I'm not as convinced that Zion will be just a transcendent player from the jump especially if he's playing with guys like Davis, Andrew holiday. He's more third to eat. And if they get a guy like Jimmy he's fourth in line. So I do wonder about that like how much you can count on him for next season, but Jimmy fits right there withdrew and you just get like a pass first point guard, and that's your five. Yeah. That's pretty good. Find it hard to believe that Jimmy would leave Philly for anywhere, but New York, Los Angeles that seems to be the one consistent piece of the rumor mill around him was that it's either going to be stay for the money in the years or go to the biggest market possible. Yeah. But I do think somebody like to buy his Harris. And I think that this puts if they're able to keep Davis this volts New Orleans past Denver as a destination past Utah's a destination past. Minnesota as a destination in terms of Western Conference teams outside of that either. The major market L A teams, Golden State a couple of other Houston, whatever other places you have to consider New Orleans is one of your prime options. Joe, I think it makes a lot of sense. And I think outside of New Orleans a lot of the free agent pieces to stay the same. I think what it did. Is it probably warped the trade market a little bit? If Davis is intent on getting out of there. He is played his last game. He wore the t shirt that was laid out for him. And that's his last statement. He's going to make their the Lakers, obviously, got way more interesting now that they have the fourth big in the draft. So before we were wondering if they had the assets given Brandon Ingram's questions going into next season. Because of this blood clot issue. Whether or not Lonzo ball could ever stay healthy whether or not Kouzmin was a good enough prospect whether or not someone was other guys were together a good enough package to get Davis. When all of a sudden, they have a number four picnic and throw in there. And that makes it a lot more interesting. So you also have to worry. For the same reasons. Whether or not the Knicks all of a sudden if that's interesting enough. So having that third pick can they turn the third pick knocks some of these other guys keen, whoever whomever, the the pelicans might want all of a sudden, would you be willing to trade Davis there? Right. So let's start talking about possible permutations of this. Right. So you you obviously had Justin's dynasty in the making with. Drew's ion AD and a fourth guy be Tobias Harris via free agency be whoever you wanna say Boston didn't have the the lottery they were hoping to have so immediately. We're going to start talking about them because I don't think they're going to run back that team that they had last year if your New Orleans, and you don't get a guarantee from Davis. Would you rather do a year of uncertainty with Davis or get Tatum and smart and player x and some picks may be from Boston and start over and have everything sort of timed around zion's acceleration? I think if Davis is willing to sign an extension the summer, which will be eligible to do. Right. You still has the supermax on the table meth another big factor that we need to put in here. I think anyone who would say if the situations is good enough. I would like just an absurd amount of money. The only this team can give you right? If he. Declines I think one of the things we should talk about just like they could drag this out into the trade deadline now because they are in a position where they don't need to make this move immediately. Right. I do wonder is the Celtics package still the best. I think that the Celtics postseason didn't do wonders for the value of that package, but you can make an argument about this is the whole thing that the Knicks guys were talking about Oliver Knicks friends like Jason and Shawn everybody at the company when that Shawn's report came out that Zion. Could be foot fray d they were like no having Zion for seven years under relatively manageable money is like having Patrick Mahomes a quarterback or having a Williams a quarterback like you can't possibly do that unless you think K D kyri AD calm, and we're in the finals next year, unless you are sure that that's what you're gonna have going into August. I don't know. I think it's a fascinating conversation. I'm pretty impressed with the combination of work and luck that's gone into New Orleans. Few weeks of the off seasons of four landing the head of Phoenix's med staff. Getting somebody like Griffin now getting the number one pick. There's a feeling of stability that hasn't been there in awhile. Yeah. If we're looking around the landscape, I think the way to do this is to say what's the best blue shipper that each team can throw and then are any of the draft picks that the Knicks or the Lakers got here better than Jason Tatum. Right. I the more than I'm thinking here because we're just processing own in the aftermath of this. All I do wonder would you rather RJ it over Tatum? I don't know. I'm still in the camp where I think Tatum has has become underrated. We've focused so much on all of his flaws. And he does have many of them. I still think he can be a frontline score. Maybe he isn't an MVP candidate. But I think he's starting to prove that like he can get a shot off against a lot of different opponents. And I think if you feed him rather than play him off of Kyrie I do feel like. You could thrive particularly in Alvin gentry system was going to get up and down and get shot. You think Alvin gentry is gonna be back. Sure is seems like old signs are pointing to try would have done something about it. By now, the one thing is Elvin before like any of this happened got really close with gale Benson. Like, I remember in the playoff series, noting how much time Alvin gentry was spending in photos talking to him it. Yeah. And I will say this. He's a very shrewd political maneuver. Yeah. Like he knows what he's doing. And so there was a point where he even like made a big show of things at a post game press conference to say that this is until the end of the regular season this regular. Yeah. Just when everything was kind of going off the rails that like you shouldn't throw New Orleans under the boss. This ownership is Fine Gael because everything that we need right. I mean was that a shot at Dell or was that just like sometimes stuff like this happened? It was probably a little bit of a shot of dope because they've clashed at times. But I also think it was a message to ownership like, I believe in you. You can use you believe in him forward. That's the cynical perspective. But at the same time like I can't imagine he didn't think about that. I want to talk a little bit about the coaching carousel a little bit later. Why don't we go through some of the other lottery results tonight because it was a testament to the NBA's ability to create interest in an event is something that's like essentially, an algebraic equation, they flatten the odds this year. So the bottom three teams out of fourteen percent chance each correct? This was the results of that. Obviously, we've talked about the pelicans we've talked about the Knicks. The order of the draft in June will be New Orleans pelicans picking one obviously picking Zion. Williamson number two is the Memphis grizzlies number three is the New York. Knicks number four is the LA Lakers, which I think all of us were seeing our life flash in front of her is without happening. But that's also very interesting atop for pick for LA possibly puts them back into the into the trade conversation. I think that we were all sort of talking about LA has depreciated a bunch of the assets around loss LeBron because of the way that those guys played after the day. Davis trade talks fell apart and not really knowing what in groomer Kuzina or ball or hard or any of these guys are worth on the open market. Now, you've got a number four pick to sweeten the deal. If you wanna make a trade move in there, whether they will or won't it's really unclear because we don't really know who's calling the shots in Los Angeles right now. Anyway, number five pick was the Cleveland. Cavaliers Phoenix Suns number six Chicago Bulls, number seven hawks eight wizards nine hawks again at ten so some interesting stuff in there. And right now, what we've got let's just be candidly like Justin, and I are more pro basketball fans. So we're looking at this, basically more reading the tea leaves and candy reading charts, and Danny and Kevin O'Connor and seeing what they're saying by all accounts. It's a one player draft in terms of like this will change your franchise. I've heard some people say that the top three guys may have a profound effect on a franchise, but Kevin's got it Zion RJ jaw. Okay. So RJ Barrett from do John ramp from Murray state have you watched enough of these guys here? To to feel like someone in this top five one of these teams can count themselves lucky. Do you think it's a three player draft? You think with the fourth pick? The Lakers are actually more screwed that were letting on the maybe. Yeah. I mean, I think Moran is just the interesting guy for me in you think that the grizzlies who have Mike Conley waiting at least another year Mark said on Twitter. He was basically like I wouldn't count on my kindly being on the grizzlies next year. And I wonder if there's just pushed him out the door, or if they're going to say to themselves like she's the perfect veteran maneuvered for giada. Like, learn under-, right? I'm sure watching Marcus all in the Eastern Conference finals won't increase my colleagues desire to put somewhere else at all. I mean, I watched a little about little of him in the tournament. He just seemed like the classic over achieving small conference word. I am superintendent by him, especially I mean as we're recording. This the blazers are playing they had success with Lillard and then CJ. Columbia seems to be in that type whereas just like this dynamic athlete and somehow came up in a system where she just ended up at a small school. And I don't know how that happened. But it just seems like he transcended that a lot of his advanced numbers are good which is always a good sign, especially when you're trying to weigh whether or not the competition versus his actual abilities. I don't know he just seems like he's so dynamic, and he seems like a fun player. And I feel like the grizzlies were going through some front office changes and are kind of pivoting to that next era post grit and grind, I think he makes a lot of sense. And I think it would be fun to watch him in particular play with triple j it's really interesting to think about this because grizzlies I assume we're going to stay where they are. I don't think the Knicks necessarily are gonna stay at three because now they have a top three pick. I don't think Atlanta needs three picks in the top ten, but I'm just saying that like the Knicks now have an asset. It's not as good of an asset as if it was I am. But in some ways, they can now guilt free trade away if they want to and if they think that this class of free agents is coming in. They seem to all signals seem to be pointing towards the possibility of Durant Irving union in New York at the garden at number three pick can do you a lot of good because those guys are aren't there for rebuilding project? They're there to make a run at Eastern Conference finals at the very least in the first year. Right. Yeah. And as I do think if liens is looking at the board here, they have to consider RJ Barrett. Let's say he goes three or he is the third guy and all these other young prospects that the Knicks have kind of accumulated, plus the Dallas Mavericks future picks. Like, they have a really good as a package for days. Davis interesting. But I will say this is something I was talking about before when her next fans were already just like preparing for the worse. Durant is already on a super team. Does he really want the same setup in New York because it seems like part of what's driving his motivations, which are completely unknowable? Just considering what we know about Durant seems like he sways one way or another depending on the week if he's following. The savior narrative does he want Anthony Davis to be joining him like how good of a team. Does he want in order for him to be the guy? That's really interesting. I mean that you talk about player power. You're not even talking about. Oh, well, these guys dictate players dictating where they get to go or maybe expressing dissatisfaction while under contract all Colli, Allah, Anthony Davis. We're talking about Kevin Durant might need to or be a might benefit him to make that clear man may might benefit him to be like, hey, I'm thirty. There was a five second chance there in two thousand and nineteen where I thought him at a pop. My achilles. Life's short. NBA lives are short. Let's get as many good guys that were ready to go right now because you know, you can go from the basements of the ceiling really fast in this league. Or is he like I'm gonna be here for the rest of my career. I'm going to sign a four-year deal. And let's build over the next two or three years and I won't play. I'll play seventy games a year and just kind of like. Be there when we need me. But there's a way to build this up over a three year cycle rather than tomorrow. We need to have Fidel coaching in the Eastern Conference finals. I mean, that's the same thing that the Lakers went through this. Yeah. Exactly. I don't know he's younger than LeBron just seems like now would be his window. I do feel like he has things to prove in a way that LeBron didn't I think before LeBron even made this move. Everyone had pretty much given him legacy armor. He just did not have to worry about anything else. He was already in the conversation. I feel like our opinions of Katie you're so much more muddled. And I do think perhaps if he doesn't play in this Western Conference finals and the warriors just blow out the blazers all of a sudden there's that added tension of well, the warriors are actually fine. And it seems like they're having more fun. And it seems like Steph curry and Klay Thompson or enjoying this more and Draymond green. All of a sudden is playing as well as it used to in looking twenty pounds lighter. And I don't know. I think there's a lot going on here that we're still going to figure out. Yeah. It's gonna. Be a really really fascinating summer. Let's keep going through these top picks. So we talked about the grizzlies and they're uncertain for an office situation. And what it means for maybe keeping or losing my Conley. They have a really interesting player Jerry Jackson junior. They have some okay pieces around that. I feel like that team is is very much in the rebuilding. Phase. The Knicks we discussed the Lakers. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen with this team. We talked a little bit last week about the Tyler new coaching situation in him wanting five years they giving him three. Now, they have Vogel. They've installed Jason Kidd as it essentially the shadow head coach next to him. And we know that LeBron just by sheer math is in the least the late stages of his prime. If not the beginning of twilight. So it would seem that the Lakers are operating on a three year plan. So that would mean that they either have to think the number four pick is incredible. Or they're going to treat it in a package to get somebody to pair. Lebron really depends on this guy. And who it is? I don't know as far as I'm concerned, it's three players raft. Right. And I don't know where it covers it. No. That's the thing is that covert or I like Deandra Andrea hunter like I'm always adduced by like Mikhail bridges de'andre hundred kind of guy was a two way player in his also ready to go right now. But that's not going to change anything for the Lakers having another two way wing to play around. Lebron is knocking to particularly like change the game. I mean, they should still is weird as it is to say like just an hour after they had this miracle lottery. It does feel like the plan is still the same. Just just the names are a little bit different. Does seem like they are on a time line. And if anything I would just be talking up how great these foreign five and six like level prospects are and leaking Halpern Ingram rice, gray. And there's nothing wrong with his medicals. Right. Because I think you should be trying to package us if not for a D somebody else. I don't know who that would be maybe my Conley all of a sudden, maybe like the grizzlies want less for him. If they know that they. Can get a job rant. It's weird. Because there isn't a clear cut next guy, especially after Christmas present I got traded to Dallas. You would think that they would focus their attention on packaging, these guys and going elsewhere. Maybe they'll just trade LeBron for Ben Simmons, apparently something that someone is called someone about. Okay. The rest of the lottery. Cavs new coach, this is a tough spot for them. They're in a very much a rebuild. I would expect love to get moved. Although I would think who wants that contract. Right. Many little Braun does the thing. I mean, Lakers could just have a Cavs reunion out out in Los Angeles. If they want to John Beland joins the Cleveland Cavaliers as their new head coach, I think on a five year deal. He leaves the university of Michigan. He's by all accounts, an offensive genius and is an incredible development guy. So it'll be exciting to see some of the Cavs younger players and see how they grow and see what the Cavs do with number five, which could be Culver hunter garland. It could be Cam reddish could slip down there. So. There's a lot of guys who could be interesting for Cleveland. And that's why is kinda neat about the draft. It's like depending on the year. You're almost in like a higher value situation around six or seven than you are at three or four depending on what's going on here. Yeah. These these next teams are the teams that all lost the less. And that's that's one thing. I want to ask you about is essentially like this was the first year of the odds getting flattened a team with a six percent chance won the lottery. The Lakers got into the top four and the Phoenix Atlanta and Chicago stories with weren't were. So a how do you feel about the first quote unquote, fair lottery and be wasn't fair. I was thinking as the Lakers jumped in to the lottery, and you saw the look on guys like the Andrea and knowing that he would drop out of the top five he wouldn't be getting this transformer into prospect to play next to Nick Gilbert, a guy who's who had been like a couple of. So he's as is almost like a parent showing their kid like a baby. And being like, this is why you only practice absent. And. This is why you don't do what you were doing. As scared me that you spend an entire year. If you're the Sohn's if you're the Cavs just throwing these games away. And all of a sudden all you get the six in the fist pick. I think it's like the appropriate comeuppance for what they did for tanking tanking. But on the other hand it vaulted to one other big market franchise into the top four. So I do wonder if people are gonna look at that and say, well, the playing field isn't level the way that small markets can kind of combat their stars all wanting to flee to the coast, right? As we have the lottery Rican tanked, we know we can get these costs controlled star players onto contracts, essentially. Yeah. And I mean, this is come up a couple of times this week. I know Ryan and Bill we're talking about on their pod. This whole idea that the CBI was constructed as it was because they figured no one will ever turn down an extra year and extra money and leave their smaller market team until LeBron did and we. Start getting into a world in which maybe some creative accounting, and maybe some thoughtful branding can get you the same amount of money. You would get for staying that extra. You're on a team. That's never going to get past the second round. And I personally even worry about someone never happened where somebody's turned down their rookie extension. Like, Ben Simmons that I worry about somebody like Ben Simmons who seems like exactly the kind of guy. Who's like, I believe in my potential to make up whatever money, I wouldn't get here somewhere else. And that'll be a really interesting day the day, a rookie turns on a rookie extension. I mean, we've already got Dave is basically saying he doesn't want to sign the supermax deal. Be interesting to see what happens with Bradley Beal. When that comes up, right? He's up for a supermax censure pretty soon, isn't he if he gets all NBA? Yeah. That's right. So couple really interesting off season questions to consider. Is there anything about this lottery that felt especially cruelty you well? I mean, the hawks dropping to eight this is a team that we talked about the entire season is doing everything, right? Even trae young approach. Prospect that I don't think a lot of us were high on had completely turn around in the second half of the season. All of a sudden was pushing Luke dodge for rookie of the year. He's still might get a lot of rookie of the year. Love we have. We don't know because the awards are in July next season in lake Dow checking I will be here. Thank you. But they end up at tenth with I believe that's the Mavericks pick that got from the Luca Danni trade. That's not the return. They want that doesn't make up for the gap between Luga prospect and trays a prospect because his much as I love trae, the better, you get in the more high level high stakes games, you're playing he's going to be exposed especially on the defensive end. And then their own pick ends up at eight. So they have eight and ten in while they have shown the ability to draft lower. I heard her Collins. I think they were drafted in the same spot is just not great for a team is all their their eggs in the draft. I'm going the other way, I think they're okay now. Okay. I don't necessarily think that the hawks two picks tempts, Memphis or New York or LA or anybody is not the NFL. I don't know if these bundling picks, really work. I think they're in a great position. The hawks are two years away from being two years away. Like, I think that they can continue to be lovable. Continue to be entertaining. They can continue to grow homegrown stars. And they can be in eastern the lower rung of the Eastern Conference playoffs, and maybe a year or two, you know, like, I have it. That's a better path for them for them to have a de'andre Andre hunter. Who's like a proven winner a little bit older is like right ready to go into the starting lineup. I love that for them. Like, if you're not gonna get Zion better having hunter and someone else then going, okay, we got camera tish, and it turns out he's a bust. And so we're really back at nothing, right. Yeah. They definitely helped. They're like league pass Kip stir belt like bona fide is here. But I do wonder how they voted into the top three. If they'd gotten a guy, maybe not Mirant. But if they had a bear, it all of a sudden, they have this cap space, and maybe the process is a lot quicker than we thought. Yeah. I think about this team for like two years in advance by as we saw with the Sixers like the window happens. And you just gotta take advantage of absolutely. And the Sixers I think also basically destroyed the road roster to get. Chance if Harris walks they're gonna look at that clipper straight is one of the low key worst trades made in a long time because they gave up that pick and they gave up Shamet who would have been a cheap imitation. Klay Thompson in a time when they're gonna either have to pay through the nose JJ or lose him. I just think that the amount of freezing destinations are drinking and more and more you guide trade for what you want or draft what you want. And I think that there's more likely that guy's either stay where they are or go to one of the five big teams that they want to go to LA LA, New York. Brooklyn state Portland's not gonna get a free agent. Oklahoma City is not gonna have Frisian mostly because they only money, but those kinds of places. No one's moving there. Yeah. They might stay there. But they're not moving there. Well, it is interesting because the one like dormant huge market that also loss in this draft was the Chicago Bulls. Yes, a team that has done everything, right? In terms of being tanking team. Perhaps they didn't go as hard as they needed to. And here they end up seven. And they're kind of committed to this middle of the road. Now where it's Zach LeVine. It's Otto porter. It's Wendel Carter. All these players are fine. Yeah. And they're almost like Orlando Magic heavy, right? You know, just that version of we tanked, but we only ended up getting good players. Good version of this is like a forty one team or a thirty five win team. Yeah. And I like a lot of those guys. Sure. In a bubble. Yes. Not together. And not with that. Coach your feeling is probably like a top four seed. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the wizards because according to Bengal her. This is a tweet from bed after the first three of four lottery numbers were drawn. The pelicans had the most winning combinations followed by the wizards in there was in the room. Washington's Tommy Sheppard track numbers and knew exactly how close the franchise came to winning design draft. So that is Knicks fans can be heartbroken the teams that super tanked like the Cavs or the. Hawks or the sons of the bulls can be heartbroken that literally would have saved that franchise. I mean, not that they're going anywhere. But as Bill and Ryan talked about on their show that wall contract has the potential to be the heaviest and the worst deal in the NBA. Well, this is the essential question of the draft. Which is should you be rewarded for incompetence? The wizards did that to themselves. Yeah, in so I am of the belief that the entire like incentive structures completely flawed. Which is why Sam hinkie did what he did was more to like take advantage of right this flawed system. Right. Like teams like the wizards should not be benefiting from giving John wall that contract. Sure. And so that's what I'm wondering. Here is there's a version of John wall contract, that's bad. But is like Blake Griffin. Russell Westbrook bad versus John wall is going to likely miss a significant amount of next year. I would imagine a release is gonna come back somewhat depleted. He had the achilles injury. And then he reinjured something, right? As of April. Ninth. John wall is not sure if he was going to return next season. So that's where that is. And that's when his huge deal kicks in that would have been a can't even comprehend. How amazing that would have been Zion? Got of the wizards. They would have screwed it up. Okay. So here's the question. Is this fun is what we just witnessed fun. I don't know. I don't really know what the solution is for this other than shortening the season because the NFL you don't have to sit through fifty games of it. You know, like if a team is bad, and they lose they might get the number one pick. But it doesn't feel like this miserable March and also the NFL it just feels like sure you can draft a quarterback with the first five picks. Like what you really need is always like left tackle. And that doesn't really happen in the NBA you ever drafting like the quiet seal that will keep you from drowning in the NBA drafter always drafting for talent you're always drafting for best player available now. So I don't know what the solution is for the NBA unless they want to radically change their products. We get the same argument about the playoffs that we've been watching and whether or not the playoffs are as entertaining as they could be, you know, if they should be is entertainment, the thing that we're looking for what do you think? There's not the draft itself any there's a lot of ripple effects from the sort of decisions that they're making on the one hand I often feel like the NBA thinks that tanking like anybody cares about taking. I think the owners care about tanking. I think when one gets something that someone else doesn't, and they view it as an injustice, Adam silver, ultimately has to answer to the ownership. And that's why he's making some of the decisions that he's doing on the other hand, I feel like it almost promotes fans like us to be less regional to be less. Like baseball fans, the fans of one team and to be more national fans, which I think is an interesting occurrence that I don't know necessarily has any downside. But I do wonder looking forward if that is a good idea considering where like streaming rights are going what I'm saying. Are you saying that you think it's bad for like people with no real, quote, unquote, vested interest to care whether or not Zion goes to New Orleans or Memphis is that what you're saying? Yeah. I just think like. Going forward. I wonder how are we going to consume basketball? Does it matter that like tanking team is just completely off the board because we view the MBA as totality if we're just gravitating towards stars? Or is that money at the gate going to be increasingly important when nobody is going to their TV and paying as much for caveat. Here's you're saying, that's like a entirely other American. We're going really really almost an existential question about the league because I think for despite its popularity I just feel like this season more than the last few. I've I've felt like not only where people like, yeah, I'm going to get really involved people who I know who are not like NBA league pass diehards or professionally obligated to be involved with the NBA tonight tonight basis, we're like a check into the playoffs and even during the playoffs for like, I'll check it on game three, right? I mean, we've talked about this in the past that the viewership is down slightly and a lot of it seems to. Stem back to LeBron like, I remember earlier in the season that the east coast national games, the viewership was down a little bit because they no longer had LeBron there. I think there there's going to be sort of reckoning where LeBron passes the baton, and I do wonder if whether it's Jaanus whether it's some of these other guys they are players who are comparable in terms of just like dominance on the court yet. But they are not celebrities in the same way that LeBron is. So I do wonder what the next step is. How do you fill that? Void in that. There is no answer. Yeah. If none of them will ever be LeBron. Then do the each local team. Do they matter MO to drawing people at the gate getting local cable package? Does that still matter is that still viable in an era where people of our age our only streaming I do not have cable. Yeah. You're not obligated to watch an eighty two game bull season. If they've checked out halfway through the season if not a quarter of the way through the season, and Adam silver has been talking about this pretty openly. Yeah. So it's it's something that the league is is very aware of and it's interesting to see going down. And it's afflicting. I think baseball too. I think it doesn't happen in soccer as much because of relegation, but they do see teams who were playing very safe to get like a bare minimum amount of points to stay up in leaks. So it's a fascinating conversation to to to go forward with. So now, we're going to be joined by our buddy, Kevin O'Connor who was lucky enough to be in the room where it happens to borrow a lyric from Hamilton. See that Justin. No now, do I feel like a theater going? Why don't you try to check Hamilton out after free agency? I'm gonna go to Lake Tahoe. Okay. Kevin. What was it like in the room? So you put us in the scene you're in a room. You can't have your phone. What's happening? Well, I would say it was pretty much utter silence. As soon as KiKi Vandeweghe started talking about the possible lottery and everything and then the lottery ball rattling around and the numbers come out and all get announcer number one pick it then Alvin drank SRI green. Any any structures as armed boat. Like, are you not entertained, and he quietly sorry goes back to the state and everybody in the room laughing and cheering the whole time. Because I thought it was the most genuine reaction to the possibly have a team getting the number one pick in the chance of franchise changing player in Dino Hinson, four the team that could be losing another for instance, changing player, Anthony Davis. But now with eighty that was I on chance the bay could try to keep avian. That's my main pick away from the night. And like there's so much motion bottled up in that scream from Alvin gentry the whole room definitely wasn't supportive it and David Griffin after we all got out room, certainly had a positive reaction. Tune of as well as it was pretty specialty in gentry reactor was the Knicks vibe outer filings. No reaction from Houston who represented the next on the road. They're not much of a reaction there at all. I think it was probably offensive disappointment knowing that it'll be hard for them to get Anthony Davis trade, and I think that's true for for most any team that had interest Anthony Davis. But I have the number one changes everything. Yes, Sean is still reporting the doesn't change Davis's wishes to be traded. And I mean, there's always already some up research happening where I saw Twee I think from our experience that Zion was whisked away because he'd been hoping to go to New York, but is now New Orleans player or whatever. I mean, we're gonna get this. This. I know the feeling buddy. Kevin. I I guess one thing I wanted to hear from you is after witnessing the actual process of this happening. The lottery process, do you think it's fair? There's always hurried off. And this is going to be one of the things I write about in reaction to this. I think the change they made was to give certainly more variants in what can happen on Lauder night. And that that's the trade off in. And meaning that teams don't have to totally bottom out and be totally garbage in order to get the best odds. So yes, while it's true that the quote unquote, worst teams, then get the best highest pigs. Well, that's the trade off the league made. And this is looking happen. Whether it's good or bad. Well, I think that remains to be seen. There's still good players that can be found anywhere throat, the trout, and then all depends on the pick that you actually make. But ultimately, the spill was a one player drought. I personally don't think outside of I on number one John rant RJ Barrett of two or three in my mind. But they're not so far moved from the guys at four or five six or seven that makes a drastic difference. It's really just that number one pick spot not just this year. But most years that. Actually makes the difference in. Oh, by the way. Like, even when it was twenty five percent odd the number one pick. It's not very often that actually ended up getting a number one pick. So I think overall the good thing and moved in the right direction, but they're certainly off. So and and for the worst teams and not get the best pigs. I'm sure those fan bases aren't happy about it. But I think it's for the best overall. Personally. Do you think there was a winner of the loser? Sonate somebody outside of the pelicans who would be able to say, hey, we really like where we landed not even because of the odds, but because you think that they're going to get a good player with where they are. We were just debating the just our debating whether or not Atlanta should be kicking themselves for having eight and ten or whether they have like they have a nice little spot there. Well, I mean, Memphis is the obvious first team, you know, winning the second pick and the amount of options they'll have to Perry young player with my calmly or whether they move on from him at some point. And also with Jaren Jackson, obviously is there the cornerstone there. I still think even though expel down to slots. They're still an unbelievable pitfall out and tirelessly and number three. They can still use that picking a trade, and they can still use that picking a quality prospects there any team at dang Zai on it's gonna be disappointed, but still think for the Lakers a mixed with their market five and the way they can draw three Jim can draw beaten up players and trust in the being traded. They have a lot of drought capital still winning three or four especially the Lakers moving up seven spots. Yes. Okay. Mock draft actually just went live as we are on this call here. So you've kind of sketched out the first round. Can you walk us through maybe some of the first few picks? Yeah, that's going to these teams can kind of like plan on getting I have not seen our mock yet. Presumably, you you loaded the PECS. I can I can read them to you. Okay. I just pulled it up. I this is like a group mock that we did. Okay. I'm looking at right now for the first time. Cameras falling falling to the fix for the great for them. And I think that speaks to the nature of the strap you look at this draft someone like cameras entered college if a top prospect and he struggled at Duke as the third wheel behind Vineland thin and RJ barrack. But because of those struggles gonna be a guy like eight Justice winds, lower mile Turner who falls in the draft. And depending on who you talk to depending on your own evaluation of reddish, either love him or eight in prospect. But if Atlanta at that eight spot or even Kaga with seven or one of those teams in the mid I you might be happy with a guy who came shoot from the permanent who can generate is own shot. Like, everybody's gonna stay distract. It's crap. And no doubt that this draft has a lot of guys question Mark up and down the board, and including a second and third spot right behind ion guys question there, there are very few things in the. Strat. And that's why this year class. It's things to be things that didn't move up. But they're still to be had just defensive flat out. I would say the one thing that's on my mind with those teams in that two three four range. Yeah. I look at it a lot like the folks strap where I think this is any irradiation book. Name. This fuck fast. But I mean, I remember that year. Like one of the first things I wrote up a lottery was this is the year can train down. And I feel exactly the same with issues class because you know, if you're Memphis and that second spot, and you don't love RJ Barrett. But you don't love John rant. But you really liked Jericho over, and you know, you can get him at the fifth pick and Cleveland or Phoenix love him, and they're and loves drama, and they wanna move out. Well, I think moving from to thick makes a lot of fence with the extra draft capital or assets or players that you can get like that's what winning a cop pick. Meaning that gives you more flexibility more than I think necessarily a pick of the best players because every team in every executive within it wasn't as team is going to have these guys right draft differently. John Moran was number two everywhere. Roger Barrett about number three everywhere. There will be teams that have Culver or dairy of garland or even a camera tish ranked high on a lot of variants from team two teams bid board. That's interesting. We haven't had a draft like. That I don't know. Maybe even since the Embiid draft where I felt like there was a lot of like. Ooh, I just have no idea what what happened next. And it doesn't even matter. What the big boards are because you can get some bullshit. Like what happened between Dallas? And Atlanta last year that just throws everything for a loop rate. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And like be drafted is interesting because and beat with Ford of dot com. Doc in December one but close the consensus number one until that injury the back injury right before the draft knocked down behind Wiggins. And parker. There's always variables that can happen with injuries before the draft the next by six weeks. Well, okay. So let's talk about the grizzlies just really quickly because that's pretty much the big inflection point of this draft. Right. We know designs going one, you are the GM of the Memphis grizzlies. Kevin. Honestly, he might be Jim rent-seekers again just from that. If you see John Hollander, and you could find him in the bowels of that arena, just home we said, Hello. And everything is going to be okay. John. Which guy would you go with you're going to keep the picket to who? Would you go with Barrett or Moran? Our climbing to the decision maker for the grisly. I would look for trade. I, but I'm keeping that pick in largely would depend on what the plan is what my options are Mike Conley. If if there's a trade out there, that's a strong as what was rumored to be Utah's offer from comedy, which involves fi first round draft picks. I'm probably gonna open at taking that deal for Conley. And I would probably lean towards Jaama rant case. But I think personally with my own evaluation of Djalmir, and I would wanna see him shoot and pre draft workouts. I do wanna see how real his shot is off the dribble. I'd wanna see if he has improved shooting mechanics off the dribble, especially for those questions. I would want answered but I would want to draft on the rack he's the guy would want draft. But I would need to have those questions answered before actually making that choice. But would be my guy. Ideally, kept my last question is as as we all are gonna join you overnight. In becoming draft experts and going up to our friends, and sailing know, like always been a big, John. Tell me who is my SGI this year who is the guy who's maybe right now projected fifteen twenty in terms of maybe somewhere in the ten to twenty who's gonna start you. You just have a feeling he might start rising a little bit that people are going to really like what they see once they start seeing workouts or the combine or what have you? I'll give you guys. I think one of the guys that is ranked most places in the thirties or forties. Jalen mcdaniels a big man from candy state. He the guy hit the first on both ends of the floor space before his ability to to dribble the ball, his personality and twitching strain by think in workout the six ten with blank and feed. I think he's somebody who's going to have the ability to move up into the middle first round. But the guy who's already in the middle. First round. I could easily move up on the top ten isn't a little North Carolina. Another guy similar camera shoe struggled during his freshman year. And North Carolina. But ultimately is an insanely talented player on wingspan, a great strong body explosive athlete, and he has the skills that he fast in high school, and then in college to be versatile player curiosity where do you have little where does our mock draft happened to little and in Kef? Can you guess Boston been really, okay interesting? We'll have any other like observations you wanna share from the night there or the vibe there or anything you want to drop on us. Yeah. I would just say like one of the best part when we're watching it live. Everybody's in the room. Just kinda standing around watching for the reactions on the screen like seeing coups get all excited at someone in the room said not so fast. My friend. Yeah. I it was just really nice. Everybody's standing around watching it. It was great the Kumala. I am glad you got to check it out. Look for Kevin's look from inside of the draft lottery. Experienced tomorrow on the ringer, and you can go to the ringer also to see Kevin and everybody's mock draft that's up there. The ringer NBA draft guide is a work of art. So you guys should all be checking it out. Kevin. Thank you so much for calling in, man. Thank you guys. Have a good night. All right, guys. Thank you so much to Kevin O'Connor that you so much to Jason Concepcion. And of course, thank you so much to the Dizzy Gillespie of this podcast. Justin barrier. We're going to be here in a lot more from Justin about the New Orleans. Pelicans dynasty to be. I'm sure in the coming weeks. But for your listening pleasure. We've got challenge sharks tomorrow that would be Wednesday talking both Golden State Portland game one. And obviously some first reactions for them for the draft lottery. Justin, and I will be back with you tomorrow night Wednesday night after the first game of the Eastern Conference finals. Yeah. And then you can hear gones and Haley on Thursday night reacting to game two of blazers warriors. So we've got quite a few pods. Billing russillo, also be pumping them out. And of course, if you're bored of the NBA there's always game with runs. So we have a ton of that stuff. And you can check us out on the thrones. This Sunday on Twitter for the series finale game of thrones, thanks to everybody for listening. We will be back with multiple times this week.

NBA New York Knicks LA Lakers Anthony Davis New Orleans LeBron Zion New York Los Angeles Bill Justin Cleveland grizzlies Cleveland Cavaliers Zion Roger Barrett Chicago Bulls David Griffin Kevin O'Connor Jason
NBA All-Star Reserves, Lakers Back on the Court. Plus: Matisse Thybulle, Snubbed? | The Mismatch

The NBA Show

49:41 min | 8 months ago

NBA All-Star Reserves, Lakers Back on the Court. Plus: Matisse Thybulle, Snubbed? | The Mismatch

"Today's episode of the ring. NBA show is brought to you by Microsoft team. Hey NBA show fans. We all know meetings struggling to pay attention. File all seem impossible to find. We're secretly streaming the game on her laptop while nervously tapping our foot below the conference room table. And if you're not in a room you're not in the know. Luckily there's is a solution for all the meeting related issues that we constantly complain about. Welcome to the slam dunk to work together. Microsoft teams using Microsoft teams is one unplayed. It's guaranteed to work every time where you could contribute to meetings from anywhere even on the court chat with CO worker. So you're never out of the loop find all your files even edit them in real time in one convenient place the greatest NBA teams have mastered the art of Communication and organization. When you're ready to unleash the power of your team open open teams because meetings of the past or for rookies right? There is nothing worse than having to go to a meeting at a time that you don't have to be there anyway so like you have to go to some kind of early meeting when you wouldn't normally be there that early and then you've gone to a meeting probably wasn't even about you. And then he got a sit around for a long time time. I'd give anything Microsoft team. 'cause then I could just pull up my computer and now I'm part of the meeting and I don't have to be down down at the Office for the meeting. That wasn't about me anyway. Learn more about how to improve your work. Efficiency at Microsoft Dot com slash teams. That's Microsoft dot com slash teams. Today's episode of the mismatch brought to you by brilliant earth. Create your own one of a kind engagement ring with brilliant earth global leader and ethically sourced fine jewelry brilliant earth exclusive unique designs are brought to life by master jewellers and they offer free shipping and returns on all orders for a limited time. You can earn toward a future purchase when you buy now order today for delivery by Valentine's Day and receive complimentary diamond earrings rings with any engagement ring. Purchase see terms for this special offer and received brilliant earth credit with your purchase. A brilliant earth dot com slash ringer. NBA Welcome to the NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon Jordan as he does every Friday from the ringer dot com. It's Kevin O'Connor Aka Kevin Obamacare. Kevin Concert Kevin. Oh candy land. Kevin Opinionated Kevin O.. Climber Climber Aka Kevin O.. Conflict One VERNA. What's going on this morning? Well before we get to anything too quick notes number one and I wanted to send a heartfelt thank you to all of you that have Reached out to Kevin and I after the podcast on Tuesday. It's a podcast that Shirley we did did not want to have to do considering the subject to And we did get rather personal talking about a lot of different things and there were so many people people that reached out over the course of the past three days. I was rather overwhelmed and so a gigantic. Thank you to all of you. That listen and you uh-huh said such nice things because it's something that I think everybody. That is a sports fan. has been kind of coming to terms with Since the tragic passing of Kobe Bryant and his daughter on Sunday and so I just wanted to say that you know I'm not great about responding to as many people as I'd like to and so I wanted to at least Let everybody know that we read all of those and that Certainly appreciate those listening and the kind words. Absolutely thank you everybody so much I still have to get through corresponding to some emails and messages. But they thank you so much. It means the world that that in some way Made a positive impact the Harris talk about it because it just means as much to us to get that positive feedback and positive thoughts and vibes in return. So thank you and second thing is the super bowl is coming up this weekend and we have have many times taken over for Kevin Clarkin Robert mays no though no one has ever asked us to On this particular show by the way their pod has been great this week from the Super Bowl. The if if you're a nerd the one with Warren Sharp is just unbelievable. I Lord Sharp one of the smartest humans. All in an era I is he actually human he sought and he mustache. We talk facial hair. He has a great moustache. Kevin that dude all right listen to this. You're ready for this now. This dude wrote a forty five page preview to the Super Bowl never written forty five pages of anything. Maybe I was started when I was doing like double spacing you change size twelve point five times new Roman. The unbelievable dude wrote a forty five. I mean you got to really you gotTa love the Damn Super Bowl pull that off. Anyway anyways. The pod with awards great i. There is a sports book that has opened eight minutes from my studio. Kevin WHO and Just this week and I think I'm GonNa race over after everything's done today. Go check it out and see what they've got up For the game this weekend. What Kevin O'connor told me to put money down on forty niners? Oh really your. You'RE A- Kyle. Shanahan offense Meena kinds put out a great stat last week. About how the chiefs at Remember thought my head. I've been busy with basketball but chiefs don't do well against offenses that have a lot of motion. pre-snap wrap for San Francisco uses more emotion than anybody by far Asia's dropping. I haven't you say they struggle against it yes. Kansas City's defense struggles against. Aw that's and that's San Francisco does more than anybody else. It's just an interesting little tidbit to keep in mind when you sit down on Sunday and with your buddies and your with your family Wayne. You're watching the game just watching out for that. How Kansas City's defense prepared and adapts over the course of the game against San Francisco's pre-established? Maybe if San Francisco has any new wrinkles and what they do mahomes just feels like one of those that like if I bet against them. I'd be like what am I doing. Why why am I betting on I get? It's a team board but it's Jimmy Garoppolo and Patrick Mahomes of the two guys like you've got to trust one of them right in in the big spot. Yeah and I'm I'll tell you this just just real quick as an aside. I'm always the guy that like. A typically takes the defenses in these spots right like whether it is Seattle You know or it was New England or was that Denver team or I'll typically take the the much superior defense which is clearly the forty niners in this right but Dan and and the same thing goes in college and then Clemson got absolutely blown out by LSU and remember the eagles obviously you remember. The Eagles beat the Patriots. And I've just been thinking over the last couple of years and this is true across sports is like aright. Are we now just in this offense of age where this feeling I had for so long like the defense is can really win. The defense wins championships. As we've said forever forever right that that maybe that's not the case anymore. I don't know well and that's why you know the just the Thai NBA real quickly with the Patriots losing that Super Bowl all against the eagles. This is why you can't use Super Bowl or finals losses against a Lebron or Tom. Because Tom Brady in that game against Eagles had one of the courageous quarterback performances in history period and he lost just like Lebron has had had magnificent performances in the finals. And he's lost as well. Well it's it's unfair to use their record big games. I think this is GonNa be way high scoring. I do think I do hope so. I hope it's good. It's Great Super Bowl Sunday. I don't have some kind of like massive rooting interest. So I love this. It's too awesome teams and it's Great Super Bowl anyways. Let's what's happened to the NBA and the biggest news from yesterday was was the NBA. And it's all star game and changing the format It is in Chicago this year and the teams are going to compete to win. And each of the first three quarters all of which start with a score of zero zero and we'll be twelve minutes long at the start of the fourth quarter. The game clock will be turned off and the final target store score will be set. The final target score will be determined by taking the leading teams total number three quarters and adding twenty four points to twenty four of course representing the late Kobe. Bryant's uniform number. Look people complain about the All Star game every single year and and they're like art exhibition and who cares and whatever else away. I couldn't care less about them trying to change it and make it more interesting and I'm fascinated to see if this does actually make it a lot more competitive and more interesting also each quarter. The team that wins donates to charities as well right right right one hundred thousand even after the first for each of the first three quarters and then the whoever wins the Game Ed donuts. Three hundred thousand or something like that right. That's great. That's cool I ah sort of. I'm cool with it. I think. Adding the the wrinkle at the end of the game which is effectively. The leedle amending That we see in other variations of basketball with playing playing to a number two twenty four points in the fourth quarter. That's Kinda cool. I think it'll it'll be nice to see NBA players playing within this type of system to see how it goes. Listen it's confusing at first when you read all that out it Kinda goes over your head but if you sit down for twenty seconds inherit explained. It's it's it's not too bad it's just the the score resets but it's still matters in entering the fourth quarter. Well and do they care about the quarters. Now you know to me like it stands chance to reason they might actually care if they win the corner or not you know they're create therefore creating more competition like I don't have a problem with any of this like you've seen in the NHL Hse they'll do the three on three thing during the All star. Why not I mean people complain about all of these all star Games all the time right if they if they like and I know the most tradition-laden is baseball but if they said next year the All Star game strikeouts at work and home runs or worked to runs? Like I'd be I don't care care you know what I mean like anything to make it more fun. No and I think it's going to be a fun experiment to see it because obviously doing it as a tribute to Kobe's great it's all but also for the NBA is a way to test. How the e lamenting works because it has had significant success in the basketball all tournament and is something that has high approval ratings? It's been fun to watch for for basketball. Fans people seem to like it and Nikki Lem himself the guy who created this he. He is super excited to see something like this a variation of it in the NBA. All Star game. It's a step forward to maybe this becoming something in this more mainstream. Maybe it's something that down the line become something that people are interested in seeing happening the G. League to see how it works there are and then maybe someday it happens in the NBA or not. Maybe not. But it's just fun to see these type of experiments happen in exhibition games or G. League Games because then eventually maybe something is something that's incorporated at certain points of the season like in a tournament or something like that who knows you never go to G. League Games do you. I've never been to a Julia. The game okay. I I I've been I go to him because it's not that far from where I live And it's the Memphis Hustle. But I've gone down there and they've got different rules now like I don't know many people the know this but they try different stuff out there all the time they use it as a lab and this year one of the crazy ones was If a guy goes up for like a like if a guy goes up for a shot right right and he gets fouled time to go to the free throw line and they all get one one shot for two. That's it I mean. If you make get you get two points. If you're missing you get zero does it. There is no one point. You know as a as a means to speed things up I I don't think that'll ever get adopted honestly in the in the e learning. But why don't I don't either. I don't see it ending however no new to maybe like if you if you have a mid season tournament for example I could see a world in which the NBA midseason tournament has the lamenting. which is there's effectively? What you said where you're playing to a number two and that's what ended ends the game? A shot always ends the game. The time doesn't run out. It removes the possibility or limits. The possibility of free throws in the final minutes intentional following and all that it can be super super exciting of anybody who's watched the t t the basketball basketball tournament. It's because if you made the number and let's just say just for the sake of an example I dunno it's low but let's say you made the number one hundred and a team was up. You know ninety eight to eighty but then the other team you know next thing you know. It's ninety eight ninety eight right now all of a sudden I mean how much more dramas that right because the team you've gone on an eighteen run and you've stopped this team every time when they've had a chance to win the game. Ah I love it I love it. It's more drama all-stars were named last night the all star reserves Were named last night and this is this. This is commonplace when this announcement takes place Immediately what I saw so I Wasn't right by my computer or or my phone own when the announcement was made and then when I picked up my phone the first name I saw like trending was Devon Booker and I was like And obviously I click on it. And it's like Devon booker not named the all-star Dave the negative always sells more than the positive. It's not like a lot of people were saying. Wow Jason Tatum. Data made it or Paul Burke. Training things are like booker. Beal bledsoe trending things so I click on it and I'm like Oh they must have just announced them. Ed So then I go and I see that they have announced them and with those announcements. We already had three first time all stars that were announced last week in in Luca Danni trae young and Pascal. C Hass cousy Arkham. That's right now. As of last night we add six more to that list list of the newer. Sorry for Manse flaming you there. Yeah the new ones are so bonus tatum outta bio and then in the West last Donovan Mitchell Rudy Gobert bear and Brandon Ingram And then you have some you know regular Jimmy Butler Ben Simmons Kyle Lowry owlry. Khris Middleton SA- bonus tatum at a bio in the east. were any of those surprising to you in the east reserves. No not really really. I think I was a little surprised to bonus got named in all star. I am happy. He did But I would have expected one of scorers to get named it over him like Bradley beal or like even Malcolm Brogdon who is running the show without victory depot there. But I'm happy that a guy got rewarded. Awarded likes the bonus who who is putting up numbers. Eighteen points thirteen rebounds five assists big time numbers for a big man but he's also doing things beyond the the box score with great positional defense boxing out setting strong screens doing things that matter beyond the box score. It's cool to see that get rewarded but but I am a little bit surprised a score it and get it as is Bradley Beal's agent and Bradley Beal's girlfriend. Well I thought that maybe simply because you know he's missed. You know a good portion of games. He's played well not that many thirty seven games. I thought maybe lowry might not not get it. But yes they've over performed as compared to what everybody thought. Everybody thought that they lost Kawhi and that they'll be a pretty good team but thirty four and fourteen Kevin. They're not pretty thumbing. Their record is truly unbelievable. What I think is bill deal with bill? I'm sure the coaches looked at him and they're like yeah. The offensive production is ridiculous. Twenty nine six but he's one of the worst offenders in basketball the season on the the worst defense and basketball So that I think that was probably the reason why coaches went for a guy like lowry. Who is very important to Toronto's offense? He doesn't have the numbers but he's integral to their offensive success and he's a top tier defensive player. Yeah it's pretty wild because where there are two players number six the number eight in the top ten leading scorers in the NBA. And those are Bradley. Beal as you mentioned a twenty eight point seven Devon Booker at twenty seven point one and neither of them made it to top ten scorers in the league. That did not make the all star team this year and clearly you know if you want to say defense. I mean it's team record was was held against them and that the teams lawyer right. Because it's like okay it's nice to have stats but what do your stats. Add Up to. What do they mean right? Because it's it's a different world if you're on a winning team when those stats contribute to winning they should be viewed differently. I'm sorry they just should. Once upon a time Michael Carter Williams getting triple doubles all the time they lost every damn I'm night. ICU cares so what in. That's why in the Western Conference. I'm a little bit more surprise with somebody. Like Devon Booker Not may granted Phoenix right now. Oh is only twenty and twenty. Seven booker is easily one of the best scores and basketball by the numbers but also just from watching him play with his ability ability to get to the basket and score efficiently and draw fouls with his ability to hit floaters in the paint with his ability to pull up and generate offense at the end of the clock against great the defenses from mid-range with his ability to hit threes off the dribble with his ability to hit threes off the catch and cut into all these things on the offensive end of the floor and on top of that he he can pass. I'm surprised he didn't make it for his offense and contributions and the fact that he has been much much better on the defensive end of the floor of the season that he he has been in the past and those are the things he got knocked for for being a ball hog for being a poor defender and a lot of that was because of his role as you and I have talked about before. But I'm surprised that wasn't rewarded with that. Said though who you take it off in the West I mean you you could make an argument for him over over Ingram or Paul or go bear or Lillard. But I'm not sure. The argument is so strong or over Westbrook. But I'm not sure it's such a strong argument that anybody's winning adding that to me. I look at these teams of twelve players in each conference. And I'm thinking to myself A. Why do we care about the conferences but be more so than that hat? Why only twelve players so many great players in the game? I feel like maybe it should just be more than twelve. Yeah I mean it's been twelve forever and and yet the League is banded ended. I'm with you on the sense that you gotta tell me. Somebody's undeserving right. Do I look at this and say any of these guys are undeserving being announced. No of course I don't right so I think two three weeks ago you could have said Russell Westbrook but today with the way he's performed as of late now he's been awesome well and here's the other thing would talk about Roe rewarding. Winning there is only one team that is five hundred or above. That doesn't have a player on these teams. That is the Memphis Grizzlies. John Moran Joshua the over on the team over booker for though I mean all I'm all I'm saying. Is You take John Randolph. Ajami they are three wins away from surpassing their Vegas win total. Oh I'm not kidding. Believable and this kid he is in the top four in the NBA and fourth quarter scoring. And how many games do you watch it. Come down to the fourth quarter. Like ninety percent of them rampant awesome. And so when it's time to go he goes and if you want somebody not that like truly affects winning and losing every single night. I mean again. His time will come and he'll make ten in a row. Probably we're barring injury. But he is. It is fascinating the only team that has a five hundred or above record that is not represented is them and I believe. Leave the only guys that are on losing teams are Lillard and Ingram right. Those are the only teams that have. Yeah they're losing trae young. Of course right here right. Who by the way went the absolute hell off last night? He had what is is a twenty five and ten in the first half or something like that in for the game to trae young last night. Thirty nine points eighteen assists only four four guys in NBA. History have ever had thirty nine and Eighteen Oscar. Robertson Lenny Wilkins tiny archibald in Tim Hardaway Oscar Robertson. Did it four times the other three guys that at once and as the youngest of those guys to do it. It's remarkable what he's done and I'm happy that we talked about this last week. I'm happy that he got rewarded with being all star. I mean I know the defenses bad for him but what he does for that Atlanta offense and what he's doing it as an individual players truly really truly special. What we've seen? Yeah obviously Bradley. Beal was the maddest of this or at least he was the most honest about his feelings towards his agent and girlfriends threads. What else statements about it and his trainer drew cannon? Is that true handling for. Yeah I mean put Out what you see the thing. No please read them to me. I didn't see this. Put out a statement about him not making the all all star team. I mean he said last night that it was You know I saw where he said. It was disrespectful. He said I'm a little pissed off about it. I know how I am so I was was kind of expecting it. Honestly it's disrespectful but the real ones. No I'll just keep competing. I'm going to try to get my team to the playoffs for sure one. Do they play again. Because God I wouldn't WanNa be facing him guy. Go for seventy five points in this next because he's for real busy about this whole thing More Bartlestein Elstein Bradley. Beal's agents put out a long to paragraph statement about Bradley Beal. Not Being on the team and I'm just GONNA skim through. It said quote quote. It's unprecedented for player to have the type of season that Brad is having to not be in the All Star game The Eastern Conference coaches have become robotic and thinking they just after roared players that are on the winning teams The players know in these coaches. If they're being honest there's nobody in the Eastern Conference other than Janas Game Plan for hotter than the game plan for Brad. That's the reality of it. Oh my God yes because they only play on his team who else you've got to plan for Ishmael. I admiral you gotta you gotTa Game Plan from my guy. Mo- Wagner bertone's. They play it for him because he well. She's been missing time MOS- out so yes they got a game plan for three guys would have said if I'm ever Mar Bartlestein agent anybody right. This is what I say as I look we call it Elias. This guy average is twenty eight. Point seven points per game and the only to ever average that many points entering an all-star break again not be an all star was world B free in nineteen seventy eight like what the hell is going on here in in the last forty years if you average twenty eight point seven boys per game you're on the damn all star team and he's third in the eastern conference at scoring like come on man like I I would actually if you told me that then I'd be like Fares Fair coming for if we have to. We're going back to work be free. This is pretty eft up. You know here. Here's a simple solution. Make the All star team fifteen guys for each conference or thirty total total in the league. The top thirty guys make the game or make it the top twenty five whatever number you want to do but add a couple of spots. It's simple as that and then you remove the possibility of there being egregious snubs like this and yes there might be years where a guy makes it with a that. They shouldn't but whatever man so I do think Bradley Bradley beal deserves to be an all-star does deserve to be an all star but there's other guys don't cry about it because his team's socks and sorry but they do and I don't WanNa hear that he be there you know these paying for staying because then that that bothers there's me because then it's like right then like oh we'll see what happened to Brad. Beal he stayed with his own team. East they You know he stayed loyal oil. Whatever you WANNA say instead of just jumping ship and joining the super team and whatever and look what happened to him? It's like you know man like he knew he was coming back to a losing team though it's not like they made some kind of grand commitment when Brad. Beal made his decision for him to know to believe that they were going to compete this year. Like he knew that he knew that dot like the dog the organization has done him wrong in this year. He knew this was a rebuild and he decided to sign up and be a part of it. You know and I do. I don't like that. It costs them but I don't know a couple of spots they that's my proposed solution. The couple spots. That's fine We are going to have For the first time in a long time five five days after the death of Kobe Bryant. We will see the Lakers back in action is going to be an ESPN game. They're playing against the Portland Trailblazers tonight and this is going to be. I mean I can't fathom something being more emotionally charged than this and what takes place tonight. It will be like no other game that we have seen and certainly no other laker game that anyone has ever seen and they will have tributes inevitably That go on tonight and then right like that's all you know that's going to be part of the the game tonight and it's a hard game to play right. That is a hard game to play and I would imagine that there will not be a dry I for anybody in that entire arena and for most people that are watching on television. It's going to be an amazing night and I think for any basketball fan. Particularly Larry Lakers fans. I mean any photo or video. You've seen from outside staple center right now. It's it's just beautiful rarely I it. It's beautiful to you. See All the flowers that were brought out there the the you know the bobbleheads of Kobe Bryant balloons. You know everything. That's out there remembering Kobe. Bryant's life life and the eight others including his daughter that passed away that that on that Sunday It's a beautiful scene outside a staple center and I can't imagine what it's GonNa it'd be like inside that building tonight there we have Two guys also that are both a part of the Laker organization and the two biggest guys that are part of that organization. Right now. Lebron James Nathan Davis. Did you see both got Kobe Tattoos. I did not. Yeah wow both both both of them dot. Kobe Bryant Tattoos heading into tonight's game and in this time off that they've had the last a couple of days and so this is going to be rather unbelievable that organization has really been through it. They've been talking to you. Know there's been the stories about people that have been when you know that somebody that was like a CO worker for them for over twenty years and grief counseling going on etc etc over the course of the past a l. a. over the course of the past week just honestly Catholic. Nothing we have ever seen mom and I'll be. I'll be interested interesting to watch it tonight to say the least for sure Is Kawhi Leonard Hurt. Oh he was supposed to play last night until not long before the game when he had got pulled out with lower back tightness very interesting for the first time in a while. It seemed like the clippers. We're going to be healthy. And then they go out and have one of their worst losses of the season without Kawhi Leonard playing losing to the Kings. ooh And you see like you always Ed than the neat thing right and so you never again. I don't I don't Wanna I don't WanNa make any assumptions on this but I mean he's had his knee problem they they've obviously been taking it easy with him over the course of this year But then when he's supposed to play and then he doesn't last night because an and it's a back thing you just what you obviously look with him. I never know what to think a lot of guys. I don't even think twice about it. I'm like Oh oh yeah he'll be fine. You know tomato rest up and come back but I mean everything was sold bizarre during a season that the guy missed you know and even this year doc rivers has gotten find for saying that the guy felt great you know and so I never know what to take it face value with right. Do so with the clippers right Thurgood team a very good team for sure and they. They have a chance to be a sensational team in the playoffs playoffs. And do something special and you make finals run. That goes without saying however. How weird is it that last year when Colli Mrs Games with Toronto? Oh they still perform at an elite level but without Kawhi this year anytime he doesn't play. They have struggled the clippers. Have and one of the big reasons. Why why is that? Lou Williams mantras herald pick and roll. Duo has not been as deadly as it was last season. Those guys were awesome. Awesome last year. One of the Best Duos in the League Llewellyn Herald coming off the bench and or burnishing games for that matter was amazing combination but this year just doesn't have the same potency that seems like their offense has a bit less dynamic actions off ball as well there just seems to be. We've hit this before with the chemistry aspect but something is just off with them and they haven't been able to reform in a high level and Co is out in the haven't even been able to be what you you expect them to be with the Louisville Herald pick and roll even when those guys are healthy. It's just something seems wrong with the way. These guys are mixing together whether it's chemistry a your coaching or whatever or all of it. I don't know but something's wrong here. I would just tell you that. The amount of minutes the the lack back of the amount of minutes that they have played together as a unit is just astonishing. The sonning considering you know there's not any MENSA amount of time missed for an injury like a block of time where a guy was out for like you know thirty games or something right like the even. They're just haven't been that many games that they have played together. There's not that many minutes that they have logged on the court you member. It was just a week ago that we they were That we were talking about this and I and I said that there was the that Brian windhorst article that had mentioned that at that point and and this is you know less than a week ago. Kawai Leonard and Paul. George have played in the same game eighteen times. It's insane I mean that's so I mean. Of course they have chemistry. Th You know how are you supposed to get here. They've never played together. It's not like this is like a returning team right. It'd be different. Ben Simmons and Joylin beat have only been in the starting lineup together. Eighteen Times right. We've got a long track record of them logging Games and and then even playoff games together but in this case these guys were thrown together for this season. And we're talking about you know they've played forty the high forty s amounts of games at this point and they got what maybe twenty. Maybe have ever that they've been on the same court court and that's both a reason for optimism but also a reason for concern optimism in the sense that like. Yeah these guys of course. They're not clicking because they they haven't had games together they haven't had enough practices together and that matters but the negative aspect is just that that. Come April how much experience or they're gonNA have have to have an. How healthy can these guys actually? Because there's not been much reason for optimism that co I will be able to stay healthy through a law thing about about these. These duos Trios whatever you WANNA call all coming together because some of these teams as we talked about they've got the advantage of bringing back the majority of their guys right. You've seen that the two teams in the East brought back there guys the bucks and the Raptors and another raptors lost y but those other guys that are logging the minutes By by and large are used to playing with each other And then you see these other teams it took a little bit for the Pacers you know to to find their stride and it took a little bit For Miami defined their stride in. It's taking you know taking a little bit longer I think. The clipper thing is is extending longer than and it will just extend longer because a lot of those teams. They played their first twenty games together as a unit. You're still see in this Houston thing. Try to figure it out. I mean James Harden was amazing and Russell Westbrook sucked and now Russell Westbrook has been amazing and James Oranges at his worst month in three years. So right how can we get them. Both at the same time is something that teams trying to figure out. And they've played forty-seven Games. You know. I mean it just. It takes a little while to say all that and the clippers are in you know third-place place tied with the nuggets and are four games back from the Lakers. Yeah as I am so despite but we both know you watch watch them and I think we thought and they're certainly been moment where they are absolutely devastating but on a regular basis if you flip them on you don't go. Jeez man that team is. I mean I wouldn't want to play them. You Know Yep There are nights they do and they look devastating. But there's a lot of nights where Yo- you wonder and so I think that's why we're forty seven games into the season. Forty eight in their case and you watch it and especially if you watch an away game. I mean they're fourteen and ten away from home which is not a great record. Taken for instance you know. The the Lakers are twenty and five. So it doesn't matter where you're watching them they pretty well always look good Zairian Williamson versus Jaama rant. Gets to take place to mass In New Orleans Neither of them are represented on the All star team. I would assume that both of them are going to be in the rising stars challenge. I guess we'll find out Regarding what happens with with the Rising Stars Rosters which are going to be announced Here very shortly. But where you're gonNA find. Is these two two guys who are going to be one and two and rookie of the year. Probably I on plays the rest of the season out and has these crazy. Numbers have not been on the same court with each other. They are fellow South Carolinians once upon a time played on the same. AAU team imagine that It sucks because because of the Knicks Quasi I. I don't want to say brawl like the this shouting match through this Weenie. Melee that takes place. The Malay of the weenies It takes place and Jaren Jackson and Marco Marco Goodrich for the grizzlies have been suspended for the game tonight. And you know Jackson would've gotten time on Zairean when's I'll get down on the block And so oh that stinks right that you don't get the full experience But I'm sure that there are a lot of people that are hardcore. NBA Fans that are GonNa WanNa flip that one on because is this two rookies have absolutely delivered on being nightly highlights. So this is a question. I like asking myself before I watch each. PELICANS game who who stops like. WHO's the Guy Defending Zaylon? So Jared Jackson's out who is it that you're putting on Zion crowder crowder IDA batter okay. All right crowd what is GonNa get just destroyed. It's GonNa be fun to watch it by the way NBA With this suspension. I mean it's absolute bullshit and I'm not saying this is a homer look l. for pain went and shoved Jae crowder into a row of empty seats at Madison Square Garden. By the way the front row seats were completely empty. Empty so as easy shove so he shoves him. And then you have Marcus Morris Shoving Jama rant and you have less whatever and Jaren Jackson who is like not even not even close to where this melee goes as you know. He's down the abide. The goal like about celebrate the JAE crowder three. And that's why so far far down He ends up getting suspended at the same amount as Alfred. Peyton like. If you're if you're doing this whole like the bench thing and don't leave the bench or whatever like what is the spirit of the rule here because you're getting you're you're living out these fines but for Jaren Jackson to get the same penalty as has elfriede. Payton is just bananas. And and like and Jae crowder was like involved in the thing and he's not suspended or anything anything but I just. I don't know I know they have this hard fast rule about leaving the bench but like I do think involvement should matter and I also also think what are you trying to deter here. Because those guys weren't GonNa leave the bench to go fight. They were GonNa leave the bench to break it up. You know to try to stop things from happening. And that's the shame of it. All the guys that instigate the actual fractious get off the same as the guys. That didn't do anything any day you know and I don't know what your behavior your deterring there you know if the penalties are the same. That's why that's that's why it's bothersome and also I want to see Jackson play against Ion You know instead. We'll see how Brennan Clark does who short and I and should be on our on the rising stars team in my opinion. But we'll see about that Brady Clark will be on the rising stars team because they know look you remember how they do it with the world thing. Oh yeah that's right yes. So he's GonNa he'll be Canada he doesn't really. He's a weird one because he doesn't give. He was born in Canada but he doesn't really he kinda he tells everybody's from Arizona. You never tell you would never tell you each from Canada interests right. Yeah well I mean. He doesn't have any memories from Canada. You know what I'm saying. He doesn't have any kind of like some of these guys like Rj. Baird or Tristan Thompson. Whatever I mean? They grew up in Canada. They've got Canadian. Pride as it were. I don't I don't sense that speaking of the rising stars. I have to mention this curse. Hanes from Yahoo tweeted out Philadelphia. Seventy sixers Matisse. He's liable was not voted by an assistant coach by the assistant coaches to participate in the rising stars game. Here's Kevin O'Connor from the ringer makes no sense sense. Matisse Stibal is already one of the NBA's best defenders and coaches didn't put him into freaking rising stars game. Come on not to mention. He's thirty six percent from three. In place team. Basketball thighbone should be rewarded exclamation mark. It's just the rising stars but this is dumb. It is dumb. You already got a thousand likes on this tweet. This overreacted. Chid no houses and overreact. You put an exclamation point and I was listening to house this over exclamation point the rising stars as as we speak were just announced the US team miles bridges. Wendel Carter devante Graham Tyler Hero. Jaren Jackson Jaama rant. Kendrick Andric Non Eric Paschal PJ Washington Zion Williamson. trae young. We'll look are will carter ain't going to play. He's heard Israeli trae young song. Don't play so. Why do you put the band team puts? Well they're put him on t I the minute I hope somebody besides viable for that spot. And then the World Team Mikhael Alexander Walker De'andre in RJ Barrett Brand Clark Luca the dodgers Alexander Ryuhachi more fee Mikhail. Luke Josh Cody. Move Wagner. Baby Yeah Yeah. Mogo how. Mo- Wagner wait. Who is the guy you said from Detroit? Spe- Mikhail Luke. He's been awesome awesome for the Pistons. It's not even a name. It's just letters no yet is letters come ask V. VI just respond to hold on. I need the response. You're not allowed to do that. It's initials initial or there are a lot of people named speed that I'm aware of or something and now that's that's short for his full name. which is what I don't no no? I just feed dairy. I dare you to you. Read me for my pronunciation. US Glow by the Asians I mispronounced words for a long time I mispronounced advantageous as advantages. And I saw say disadvantages instead of disadvantageous advantageous. I get it right now. I pronounce words to the is pronounced. Names everybody mispronounces Luca. Danni churches look at. Don't church. That's the way it should be pronounced you don't I look. Here's what I'm GONNA do. I'M GONNA one up you on a rising stars tweet okay. That's what I need to do it. No not abouts fee this. What I'm GonNa do you so I'm going to say? Are you ready. I'm going to have a more controversial one than yours. Should I do this. I'm going to put up this but you you don't you can do it. You can do it. You're right it might be more controversial. Fear feel free but it doesn't change the fact that it's bull that Thiab alternate make okay mine. Now you're mine out. I'm look I'm more shopping. This right now right okay. De'andre Aden on the rising stars team. That's awesome great message to send. NBA Do drugs and come out ahead. Oh my God come on. I know it's just the rising stars game but this is dumb. He did do drugs. He's the masking agents gray crane message to send to the kid. NBA find somebody else. That doesn't bend the rules exclamation mark. Sure I would not percent on that. Yeah I mean it's should. He should be on the team. I mean I look I guess I'm just GonNa have a conversation with my son as he's take my son says why did he was. He injured. Why does he only played twenty games? I say sunset down and then I have to explain to him much like I had to about You know Mark Maguire when he asked me. Oh come on the home run record. Sad Day. Said said Kevin Ayob have a great weekend. Enjoy all the games this weekend and I will talk to you. On Tuesday. Matisse tidal should be on the around the same way you stop look we gotta stop with this stuff. I am the king of defending the defenders. Okay where you're fighting for Tony Allen. Also I used to root for Tony Allen I did you ever as he was on some of my favorite Celtics teams growing up. All of a sudden is that we're GONNA Tonio. I also love Tony Allen. Even though he spent the latter half of his career Memphis he came from Boston and four I want to. I watched him grow by. We're using all tier his ACL and come back and still be a stellar young player. A stellar defensive player and I was sad when he left all USA Lovisa. All I'm sayin kid is where you sit in there fighting for the guy to be an all star because he was the best defender in the Lee no it. This isn't an also. This is a rising. I understand difference. But he's also a rising star that thirty eight percent from the field and averages five points a game on come on man come on. It's five points a game down. He's one of the best defenders and basketball initiates thirty seven percent from three. He plays his role and make smart decisions. We just talked about how it's nice to see some bonus get rewarded. Granted these putting a much bigger numbers numbers. But you're just doing that because you've shit so much. Yeah you need the fans back our your side before the season. You're like what I'm tired of these philly Fan just constantly shit on me all the time I'm Gonna I'm GonNa Cape for a guy. The average is four game before the season before the season I said title is GonNa immediately one of the best defenders of basketball and I was right the fact is is that title is getting screwed here and yes it's just the rising stars game. Who Cares? He'll get votes for all defensive team and he might not make it because he's only playing twenty minutes but the fact is is that he is widely respected as one of the best defenders game as a rookie. And that's great to see because it's rare to your point to see guys like Tony Allen to to see guys like Matisse Bible be rewarded and be recognized for their elite defense so it's cool that in my opinion to have a guy in the league. This it's great. I'm excited about five to see how he develops overtime. I'm stoked pumped a Jack About Fish. I Love Them. You agree very weekend. Enjoy the Super Bowl Calf Kevin's on the forty niners. He did not convince me though. What everybody all right? Thank you to Bobby Wagner for producing another episode. If you dig what you're hearing go gives a rating on review on itunes starts by stars. It really helps. We will talk to you next week they.

NBA basketball Bradley Bradley beal Kobe Bryant Kevin O'connor Kevin Concert Kevin League Devon Booker Two guys Jaren Jackson Microsoft clippers Paul Burke Brandon Ingram Lakers Kawhi Leonard Brad Bradley
Ep 4: NBA RE-DRAFT 2016

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

53:15 min | 6 months ago

Ep 4: NBA RE-DRAFT 2016

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast. Network enjoy chat. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA. Big Board on the lockdown network. I'm joined again with my co host. John Hollinger senior writer for the athletic and Co host of Hollinger and Dunkin on the lockdown. Podcast network we are doing a series of redrafts. This is our second one. We did two thousand fourteen last week. Now we're going to dive into the two thousand sixteen NBA draft. We're going to do it. In the form of a mock draft each of us will rotate making picks based on hindsight what should have happened on draft night John. It's great to have you aboard. Hey great to be back thank you. We didn't cause too much of a controversy in our two thousand fourteen podcast though I did do a twitter. Poll the consensus. I think fifty one percent felt that Joel embiid should have been the number one pick and interestingly around six percent sought thought somebody else should be. I really don't have any idea who other than Yokich. Who would that someone else that someone else would have been I. I really didn't think there was a contender for that spot. That wasn't a Yokich or embiid. I think things are going to get more interesting now as we get into the two thousand sixteen NBA draft just to go back in time a little bit and think about what happened in the two thousand sixteen NBA draft. Here was the lottery. In Two Thousand Sixteen The Philadelphia. Seventy sixers had the first pick in the draft. They selected Ben Simmons. The Lakers had the number two picnic draft. They selected Brandon Ingram. The Celtics had the third pick in the draft. They selected Jalen Brown. The sons had the fourth pick in the draft and they took dragging bender the timber. Wolves took Chris done at number five but he healed. I went six to the to the PELICANS. Jamal Murray number seven to the Denver Nuggets Markey's Chris drafted by the Sacramento Kings but ultimately Went to the Phoenix Suns at eight. Yucca. Purtill number nine the Toronto Raptors thon maker big surprise. Pick at ten to the Milwaukee Bucks Democracy Bonus Eleven to the Orlando Magic Torian. Waller Prince went to the Hawks at number twelve. The jazz traded out of that. That position Georgia's Papagiannis what to the Kings at thirteen. Another major major surprise in draft that night and the Bulls had a Denzel Valentine at fourteen and John. This was perceived at the start as a two person draft between Ben. Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram. I think the overwhelming consensus among NBA. Scouts that I was speaking to at the time. Had Been Simmons one but there was there was definitely a Brandon Ingram for number one movement. There were definitely some draft analyst in the media that thought he was going to be the better pick and the research some NBA teams. That I think may have leaned Ingram as opposed to Ben Simmons and the these were the two big prizes in the strath though. I think there was some excitement about some other players as well coming into the draft. What were you thinking as far as these these prospector or did you have somebody else that you guys loved from the Grizzlies? Not Not at that level. No now keep in mind. We came into strap with the seventeenth. Pick so we didn't spend a lot of time on one too but joe just for me personally. I was actually in Ingram Fan more than a simmons. Fan that year It's easy to forget. Now Simmons had a very lethargic year at Lsu and. I think that that probably hurt his stock a little too much with some people that they were evaluating just that not the whole body of work and all the potential that he had. Yeah and I think there were. There was also big question marks about what position he was going to play in the NBA. He was a point guard but he was six ten and he had to be in the right team to flourish. I think the way that people saw but there was also big questions about Ingraham. I mean he was one of the skinniest players that I've that I've ever seen coming into the draft visit physically. We knew that that was going to be a big challenge for him. He really burst onto the scene at the Nike Hoop Summit. Where I think team started to get really excited about him. Coming in will the seventy sixers who were in the midst of Tanka Palooza the process as it was referred and hadn't landed the number one pick finally get the number one pick. They go with Ben. Simmons I'm going to be on the clock this time I and and make the first selection for the seventy sixers and I'm still select. Ben Simmons I think that if you look at the overall body of work I still think he's been the best player in this draft. I still think that Ben Simmons is a player that helps a his team on the court with his ability to pass the basketball with his ability to really play floor general for the team and he's turned out to be. I think a much better defender. Then we thought he would be coming into the draft. Yes he's world world class defender. Yeah Yeah and he's become a world class defender which actually I don't think was really part of the major scouting consensus at the time. Considering that people were concerned about. He was lethargic or that he didn't he didn't show enough passion on the court or he didn't show enough motion which I thought was bs at the time. I there's all sorts of different personalities. I mean we could have deigned. Tim Duncan for the same vein. I mean there's just some personalities that aren't going to show that that way on the court there's also major issues. With Ben Simmons and obviously shooting is right at the forefront. He shoots with the wrong hand while he's developed a little bit on that end. I think people are generally pretty disappointed with how he's developed as a shooter. But as I look at the rest of the board and I know Brandon. Ingram had a had a great year. Paschal see a cab is an all star. Now there's other other players to look at. I still think that the seventy sixers made the right call with Ben Simmons. I think he went with the right coach. Brett Brown who decided he was going to play him at point guard and that's that's what he was in the NBA. I think the problem is that the seventy sixers just have never really had the right personnel around him. I agree with you. I think With I think Simmons Embiid Ken work but the other three players have to be able to shoot and they haven't quite gotten to that point yet and I think that's what's made the partnership harder to maximize is there anybody that you would've selected ahead of sevens if you'd have the seventy sixers pick. I thought he was the clear number one and you still do. Yeah Yeah I mean Ingram. Ingram has the one year of work. I mean we have to see if those shooting numbers in particular. Hold up because that's kind of the foundation for the whole thing for for his breakout your this year And even I mean defensively. There's just no comparison between the two players. So I I still think the call there is between Symington and then the other guy you have to throw in there as Pascal We have to remember. He's several years older than these other guys. Kind of further along in his career process. And I think when we look back on their entire bodies of work you know when they're you know ten years from now whatever. I think we're GONNA see that the that the that the peak age twenty seven type years from Ingram and Simmons Will exceed those a crm. And I think this is really interesting because this became very hot topic this year when Ingram started to really flourish. I with the Pelicans this year and he had. He had an excellent excellent season by. Everybody looks at the data that confirms their pre existing feelings about things so people that have hated. Ben Simmons who argued against Ben Simmons being taken number one when Ingram starts to play. Well they they're cherry picking data that says okay this. This proves that he was actually better than Ben Simmons. Every night that Ingram had a huge game you would see tweets or people shouting out. Look at this amazing Great Game Brandon. Ingram had but they're not also tweeting that when Ben Simmons had an incredible triple double for the night. Or what have you and then every time. Ben Simmons would struggle with something you you pick out those flaws and so some of this is is just bias and I may have it too because I was. I was in the Ben Simmons Camp. I thought he was the best. The best prospect coming into the draft. And so I've also looking for evidence that he's there but but statistically when you look at all the numbers and look at all the advance stats. It's it's far and away Ben Simmons and it's not even close. Yeah I think the anger would have to jump up another couple levels to really have a case to catch him now. He is almost two years younger than Simmons but still I mean even twenty two year old diggers twenty two year old Simmons. I still think it's Advani sentence so I still think Simmons is the right pick here. Okay so the seventy sixers. We believe both of us believe got it right. The Lakers are on the clock at number two. Who should they have selected the number two pick in the draft right so interesting choice here between Ingram and I would still you know you can't be clear. Wait and say I knew we were going to get Lebron James Three years from now. I I think you have to take ingram here. I think he clearly had the highest ceiling at the time and still does of any of the players left on this Ford and his at his age. I mean the sky's the limit for him. So I thought to be the choice here right and Siaka has the best body of work of any of anybody less on this board. I mean compared to take even Ingram. It is calm but when you look at age and you look at at at ceiling and you look at the way. That Ingraham is improving as a basketball player. I I agree with you. I think Ingram was still the correct choice at number two. Yeah did nearly four years younger than Siachen. So you try to envision where where is going to be in four years. And what's his body of work look like compared to? I think that's where the real difference comes in. It's the third. Pick the draft. It's the Celtics I know. They're happy with Jaylen Brown but I don't think he was the best prospect left on the board and I don't think any of US could have seen Paseo com coming as the third best pick in this draft and he's just continued to improve and improve and improve and and and I think that if you go back and look at this now. I think he's a no brainer number. Three pick in this draft and as you pointed out he might even be in the conversation for the number two pick. Yeah absolutely yeah yeah. I think there's a clear to me. There's a clear break point right after number three here where you're getting your top three or really like all star caliber players and then you're Kinda the next level down when you get to this next group. Okay so John. You had the nineteenth pick in the draft that year with the Grizzlies Seventeenth pick in the draft with Siaca on your radar screen. And if he was why why did you pass on him and take way Baldwin instead? Yeah Siaka him I think was under scouted by a Lotta the league and I think I would throw ourselves in that at the same time. I don't think anyone could have seen the improvement of skill level in particular that he may happening so quickly is analytics. Were really good And we probably should pay more attention than we did but at the same time that would have been not been a hard nut in in terms of like off quarter injury stuff no Which is interesting. Because there's a lot of their cases in this draft in particular people outsmarted themselves with injuries stuff and we'll get into that but in case it was just you know people kind of saw him as as energy for And were sure if he'd ever shoot or able to. You know to do a lot of things especially like on a team like ours. A plate so slowly. So we're there were some worries about where exactly he would fit in on a team that played the way we played. Okay well under scouting can can be part of this. He played at New Mexico state. He played at New Mexico. I mean and you look you look I mean I I actually wrote about this for the athletic awhile back. I've always felt like the Inter Mountain West and the Pacific northwest get systematically under scouted especially by the high level executives who ended up going to make the decision because they have a little limited time to go and see these guys and so they're not going to get on a plane and take two flights out to LAS cruces New Mexico in two flights back to see you know whatever an older player can't shoot Like that's that's not going to be the priority and I just think there's the guys who are located in sort of scouting convenient us either leagues or locations to ten tend to get seen a lot more and some some of these guys. In geographically favorable locations can can fall through the cracks. It's not the rank and file. Scouts haven't seen them except the high level decision makers had made that trip to where they fall in love with the guy. Okay fourth pick in the draft Phoenix Suns. You're on the clock. John this is made pick it for Phoenix. Well I think no matter what I'm going to do better than they did. They had two shots at this and the lottery and blew them both. Yes yes ironically. The second one glue the pick and still won the trading because they ended up with Bogdonovich out of it when they went from thirty eight but the the fourth pick. It's interesting because there's they're about five or six players. I think you could take here and make a case for it but in terms of that so this is still a draft. You know we've had four seasons work on these guys now. We're still going mostly on what they're going to do rather than what they've done and I think what Jalen Brown is going to do is going to be better than what any of these other guys is going to do. And so I'm going to go with Jaylen Brown. I think he's kind of that. Multi Positional Guy. Who can who can take advantage of mismatches? Can defend multiple spots shoots well enough from the perimeter that you have to guard him but can also attack is off the dribble. If he hasn't mismatched adjust think he's really designed for the modern NBA game and is going to be a high level starter for a long time and could be could still get to a point significantly beyond that. It's interesting with him he was. He was a difficult prospect on a number fronts. And what are they weird things that through some teams off? Jaylen Brown was how intellectual an intelligent he was. It was. It was really interesting to hear feedback from scouts that they were worried that he didn't love the game that he wasn't obsessed with the NBA. Because he had all of these other interest because he really loved school and he really loved learning and you could have really complex intellectual discussions with him. It's interesting how interviews matter but sometimes what you think would be a plus I mean. Here's a very very highly intelligent individual that somehow that was working against him for some teams in the drafted. It certainly didn't for the Celtics but there was a number of teams that were really concerned about this. Yeah and then I think that was magnified. Because he actually didn't have a great freshman year either at cal. And so that I think that tied into if you were if you were looking at those wards already and you didn't like the guy. This was an easy thing to tie into that guys. Too Intelligent too smart. We should pass on him. I definitely definitely think that that was Mr issued to well. You know it's really interesting too because I think there's a prospect that sort of reminds me a little bit of him in this year's draft someone that's in the conversation for the number one pick and Anthony Edwards. There's some definite similarities to their game. That is interesting. Yeah I've seen a lot of the a lot of Edwards this year. I that's that's an interesting comparison that that is because John Grad. You could tell even like right from that. First Summer League he played in Daddy. Daddy had the athleticism. The guys could stay in front of him And I wonder if we're going to see the same thing. We see Edwards playing against froze right. Streaky shooter not always making great basketball decisions on the court. You know you know some of the some of the things that are the same knocks against Edwards by Edwards is built. You know even more than Jaylen Brown like a linebacker and clearly has that NBA Athleticism. And it'll be interesting to see where that that all that all pans out and. I'm sure soon enough will be talking about the twenty twenty draft Together as well. So it's the fifth pick. It's the timber wolves. They're on the clock. They wanted a point guard. They thought Chris done was there guy. I I think point guard was a good place to go. I just think they got the wrong one. And I've been a little bit torn between two guys here. Murray and Malcolm Brogden but I'm I I'M GONNA GO. I'M GONNA go to mall. Murray here again. Age Age is factoring into this to to a certain extent. He's he's had some injuries and some things that that have. Maybe held him back a little bit. But I still see a very very bright future for Jamal. Murray as a as a very good maybe not elite but as a very good starting point guard in the NBA. And I and I think this is who should have gone number five. You know it's interesting. I mean this. This pick ended up being traded for Jimmy Butler regardless. I think probably would have been saying how come either way people were excited about Kris done. Remember that like people were fired up about him and I think it's been a surprise. How little he's been able to accomplish the offensive end as a pro. I think people thought it'd be better than this offensively and I think part of the excitement was the the energy in the aggression with which he played he was a bit of a workout. Wonder as well I think he was extremely competitive and workouts. He shut down anybody that he really worked out against. And I think that that that helped this sort of makeup of Chris done sort of had that competitive makeup that was going to allow him to continue to progress and become a better and better basketball player going forward and and for whatever reason it just really has not has not panned out for him and and I have to say. I'm a little bit surprised I I. I was Chris done fan at the time you know him and Murray were the two guys that I was debating back and forth about. Who the best? Point Guard prospect. Wasn't this draft. And it's clear now that that he wasn't the Guy. Yeah absolutely. Yeah just to you know. Sometimes it happens you know you're trying to predict project. What twenty year olds will be like when they're twenty five? I mean it's not an exact science and sometimes you can do all the all the all the steps of it right and still the outcome is in what you expected for reasons that you might not have anticipated. We'll be back with pick six through ten on the next segment with John Hollinger. You're listening to Chad. Ford's board on the locked on podcast network sports have come to a screeching halt with basketball benched. Him and pitchers off the mound. But our friends at my bookie aren't going to let it get you down. 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Their hard work their friendship and support. It's time to let more people in our lives. Know that we care about them and that we appreciate them. We respect them. We love what they're doing and that we can all together work better. It is a simple easy realized. Act Accomplished perfectly through. Yes a toast so be sure to toast this year with Sam Adams in mind. The Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsibly. And we're back doing. Pick six to ten in the two thousand sixteen NBA Redraft. I'm here John Hollinger. He's on the clock would pick six. It's the New Orleans. Pelicans they took buddy heeled they make the right choice. Put it this way. They didn't make the wrong choice. Right like buddy heald's indefensible. Pick here I do think. In retrospect there was another senior guard. They could've taken. That's been a little bit better He definitely has the best education of any player in the strath because he went to the nation's Finest University University of Virginia and I think this is another case. There were several as you go down the second half of our lottery here were teams outsmarted themselves on the medical side Malcolm. Brogdon had a screw in his foot that was put in college and and a lot of people in the medical from the From the combine were were concerned about that. Thought the foot would re breaks out. It'd be a problem. And he was knocked down or out of a lot of drag hordes. Because of that now there are some other things holding back. He didn't have crazy stats. You know the way Virginia plays I think was part of that. He was an older player. didn't have crazy athleticism and I think there were a little bit of position concern. He was very right handed even though he always seem to get where he wanted to go and at the end of the day people completely outsmart themselves. He went with the thirty six and one rookie of the year award and has been you know. Obviously an elite cleared a good team Milwaukee and this year Indiana moved over to point guard with With the injuries they had and just kept on going and just really a high level guard. Probably not quite an all star caliber player in the normal year but one of the better players at two different positions at in the league. And that's Malcolm Brogdon an injury bias senior bias playing on a team like Virginia. Where you'RE NOT GONNA put up great stats age. You know. There's a lot of factors that worked against him. Which which makes you understand why he slipped in the draft. Certainly thirty six seems too far. But you can certainly understand. Why team would take Chris done or Jamal? Murray for example ahead of Brogden given given all those red flags that were there but he's certainly turned out to be a a really terrific P- pick and player. Yeah absolutely what I mean. He's definitely regard. I mean there are some other players you could have taken here. But he's definitely one of the ten best players in this draft and to get that in the second round absolute steal from Milwaukee. Okay the Nuggets at seven. They got Jamal. Murray Great. Pick for them He's off the board here and so I'm going to have them take Bunny Hill. You know one thing about the modern NBA is that that shooting matters. And you have buddy healed shooting forty one percent with a high volume of threes. I right now for his career. He's also a great culture guy. He's a guy that I think plays the right way. He certainly has weaknesses especially on the defensive end but but his ability to score the basketball and shoot the basketball to me make him such valuable. Pick I think that he would have been a great fit for the nuggets at seven and while I certainly think there's several other players that you could look at in that spot to me the the the shooting trumps everything else here. And he's my pick number seven. I think that's defensible. Pick right there especially on this team. And what their needs are and were but buddies. Bit a good player. I think he's had some friction with the cage organization but hasn't stopped him from from. Lighten it up from the perimeter and I think even though he's he's already been older player twenty seven. I think shootings inability that that stays with the player into his thirties and a lot. Most of the guys his ilk have been able to kind of hold up their value in hold their primes for fairly extended run. So I think he's GonNa end up as you look back delivering good value on that spot. And it's really interesting you. I said he's a good locker room guy and then you say okay. He's had friction with the kings but I place much much of that at the feet of a of a fairly dysfunctional kings organization. Oh yeah yeah no I mean all the all the background on the draft was really strong. So I I I think your point is accurate. Okay it's the Sacramento Kings. Their number eight okay. So number eight. I will neither draft marquees Chris nor trade down to select Papillon US instead. I will take a completely different big. Who's the guy that probably taken and illustrates a point that the team you end up at really matters and can help determine outcomes Players Democracy Bonus He was selected. Oklahoma City wasted a year of his life standing at the three point. Line watching Russell. Westbrook had horrible numbers look like a total boss was thrown into the trade for Paul George and then when they started use them as a roll man in Indiana he instantly blossom and became an all star this year in the Eastern Conference Asterisk but is has clearly become one of the better bigs in the league at either four or five and he's only twenty three this year. I mean he's going to be one of the better bigs for awhile. I think this was a player that from an analytical standpoint prior to the draft he he really popped in numbers really good. It was just a question of you. Know the the teams they played in that league. You know there was a lot of questions about is. He's just getting his point against six seven guys from the University of San Francisco and is that not going to replicate when he plays against better competition and there were more questions about that. I remember in particular scouting him in game at SMU. Who had Ben Moore who is a really good defensively? Who couldn't play offense and that's why he's not in the League but And more to shut him down. I I mean there are other scouts sitting there with and everyone's kind of look at each other like but the things that stuck out about him yet. Like awesome hands Really good rebound or really strong lower body. Even though he didn't look strong wasn't that wide and those are the things that really carried him in the pros okay. I think we're going to see another fairly big drop off now at least on my board of of where you're getting what you're getting next from Fr- from players. Now I think that this this draft again has about another tier that drops off At at eight and what? We're really talking about now with the rest of these. These prospects at least in my mind are good role players You know for teams in the NBA draft produced this draft at least so far looks like it produced eight really good starters and and we go from there I I. I have a love affair with this next prospect and I'm going to mit where some irrational bias comes in. I loved him at the University of Washington as a freshman. I loved him working out. I he'd slides in the draft or maybe doesn't slide depending on the teams that he was ranked all over the board on draft night. I'm still a believer into John. Murray he went twenty. Eight and to the Spurs. I still think you look at the players that are left on the board and you look at ceiling and you look at what the player can become. Even though he hasn't yet become that player in and some nights he looks. Looks like he can be a great starting point guard in the NBA and other nights. He looks like he shouldn't be earning minutes at all for his team. I still believed John. Murray has the most upside of any of these players left in the draft. And and there's some defense for that on the way that he's played so far for the San Antonio Spurs Yeah. I think that's very defensible. You want to hear a little story. Yeah loved one So we If Wade Baldwin was gone when we picked which was expected to happen he was supposed to go much higher. Actually the guy we were looking at Murray and why we we just felt like he had he had that Ability to make plays on the ball you know it was really smooth dribbling. Penetrating couldn't shoot per se like actually in a workout for us. He Miss Ten straight mid range jump. Shots was like. Wow what like. You really can't shoot what he could like. Get to floaters and do other stuff. So what select. It wasn't hopeless. The big thing that they got him San Antonio and I don't think anyone expected was that when he played at Washington he did not give a shit about defense and they turned him into a monster added to a San Antonio does and you know one of the things I said on draft night was that he landed in the best possible situation for him. As far as player development goes as as far as what they were going to do the discipline that he needed that he didn't necessarily show at Washington. I just really felt like this was a great place for him to develop as a basketball player. I still believe that's true. He's had some injury issues. Obviously and like I said he's been up and down but I still thought he was one of the youngest players in the draft and I still think that he has that potential to become a player sometimes becoming a point guard in the NBA is a bit of a longer process for players. As well. I think that I think the number nine picking the draft. I actually had him as a top ten prospect coming into draft night and I still believe that he is another thing. I'll tell you this year. Okay didn't take many of them. Thirty seven point eight percent from three seventy nine point eight percent from the line is he's shots a lot better and if he continues to do that then then this feature is even much much brighter. Okay it's the Milwaukee Bucks shocking on draft night that they that they take thon maker. And if you don't know the backstory on maker he was sort of an Internet sensation. He was one of these people that based off of workout videos that were being posted online. There was this sort of legend around thon maker and what he was going to be. There was a lot of skepticism. A ton of skepticism from NBA SCOUTS NBA teams about whether he was an actual basketball player. Or not I got a call. Here's a little little story. I'm on the floor of Barclays. It's draft night. It's about ten fifteen minutes before the draft begins and I get a call from the bucks at telling me that they're going to take maker and I. I was really surprised. Why tell me why tip your hand and and part of it got? I don't think anybody was taking him. One through nine and so in. This isn't a case where you're tipping your hand teams going to trade up and get above him. There was a reason. It was very deliberate. That they called me they to explain the pick before the commentary was coming out and I was going to be on. Espn it was going to live. I I think most mock drafts and things had him in the you know in the twenties if if not some some teams in the second round people ask all the time why do teams leak things to reporters or why did why did they sometimes give information. There's always that skepticism. About anonymous sources and and one of the reasons as they want to control the narrative and they want they want a narrative out there That is going to be more favorable to them. I didn't totally buy it with the bucks You know if you look at my at my commentary I I don't think they would. They loved necessarily what I had to say about that pick. I can also look back now in time and say that it did affect how I reacted to the pick. And I think that my reaction would have been harsher had they not called an advanced and explained at least their position in their point of view of why they took maker a thon maker at ten. And so so there. There's a lot of reasons and interesting relationships between reporters and front offices of why why we talk to each other and why there's a relationship there. I doubt you're going to take on maker at ten no I I am not the interesting thing us at the time was if he was there why they didn't try to trade down I Because I think they got him at fifteen pretty easily. Well there was. There was a theory at the time to and maybe I shouldn't give wild Internet theories that are out there but this is definitely a theory that that existed within NBA circles as well. It had a lot to do with their agent on makers agent and their head coach. Who is Jason Kidd? Who also had the same? The same agent definitely one trend that you saw with the bucks during that time with Jason Kidd as the head coach was that excel management players. Were finding their ways onto the under the bucks. Rosters sometimes unique ways. That bad ones too. Yeah yeah definitely. Every everyone in the league was well aware that yes. Yeah okay who? Who would you have taken a ten at number ten? This did not get drafted from Wichita state a small bowling ball point card by the name of Fred Vanfleet. Why did Fred Vanfleet not get drafted? He had an incredible career at Wichita state. Why wasn't he drafted okay? So I was actually able to see him play in person a few times and he worked out for US. I think again. The Raptors had done incredible job in player development improving guys skill level. Fred Vanfleet could could shoot with range. But he couldn't necessarily shoot well he. The shot had aside spin on. It was a little line drive. He you can see now. I mean he's a much better shooter. Now could shoot. Would you know still all kinds of range? But now he makes a forty percents clip basically for his career. Thirty nine point two. I'm looking here. And the other thing. That hurt him obviously his his size profile and he couldn't really blow by People's there were questions about that he then. This is the thing that is state with him. Pretty much the whole way through the league he struggled to finish at the rim. Like even you know against the teams Wichita State was was playing that. That wasn't really a thing he he showed he could do. And he said trouble with that in his pro career to he's just so strong and so many other areas that has held it back and I think I think You know his his analytics were strong not not mind blowing but they were good but I think the other thing with him. I think people underestimated kind of the character work ethic IQ like E. Add all those arrows pointing so strongly in his direction that I think that that should superseded some of the other concerns couldn't agree with you more. We'll be back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment with John Hollander. You're listening to Chad. Ford's big board on the locked on podcast network. Hi this is. David Locke the CEO of the locked on podcast network. I'd like to take a moment to talk to our local business owners. That are tuned into this podcast. The lockdown podcast network. We want to see if we can do something to help you out in these difficult times. Here's what we'd like to do. We are going to drop all of our advertising rates on our local podcast for local business owners half price and in addition we're going to take ten percent of all of that revenue and donate it to the charity. Frontline foods frontline foods takes money and sent to local restaurants who are feeding frontline workers right now. Those are the hospital workers so again. Local businesses were offering half price advertising on our local. Podcast will donate ten percent of that revenue to front line foods. If you are interested in this will help you out. Please text advertising two three three seven seven seven text advertising two three three seven seven seven or go to locked on podcasts dot com slash advertising. Stay safe stay socially distance and thank you. Very much for tuning into the lockdown podcast network. Hey it's no Kozlov from rejecting the screen Sean. Marian a crucial member of that two thousand Eleven Dallas Mavericks Championship Team joined us on the program to tell us a story of his teammate. Jason Terry pulling off the ultimate confidence move during that preseason we use the shores game and Orlando in our through the team and over eating stopping and Tattoo docking over there and Jet Guy Tattoo on his on his bicycle was like do do not like real like okay did he tell you. Hey I'm GonNa get attached to the trophy. Did you know as it was happening where it was called? It was all wants to win the championship this year. Trophy right now. Better net. Come on out. You don't does it better there for more stories like these. Make sure you join Adam. Stanko and me on rejecting the screen. Download the program wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back the redraft of the two thousand fourteen. Mba draft. John Hollander. I'm on the board. It's pick eleven the Orlando Magic Word. A role player territory now in this draft it didn't really produce ten great NBA starters. I'm going to go with a player that that also was hurt because of injury concerns. He hasn't been great but but I think he's been a very productive role player. That's Charissa Vert who was drafted twentieth by the Brooklyn Nets L- avert at the time. There was a lot of questions about his foot injuries that that he had experienced at Michigan how he was going to hold up. Everybody saw the talent his ability to play multiple positions to defend multiple positions at to handle the basketball to shoot the basketball. There was a a school of thought that if he got really healthy and didn't have issues in the future he was going to be really really good player in the NBA. And I think that he's turned out to be a solid NBA Player. A solid role player. L- avert to me maybe miss too much development in Michigan to really turned the corner. But I still think he's had a nice career for the nets. Yeah I agree with that and this is another one where teams probably outsmarted themselves on the medical side so he had multiple broken feet which is concerned because a lot of times if you re break the foot the second time it. It doesn't go as well so that that was definitely he was Red Flag. Medically buy lots because of that. Which is a shame. I mean we'd had raided as a first rounder since his sophomore year. And we were not the only ones like. This wasn't being ahead of the curve this would would everyone fell and then it just the medical was was just a thing that. I think knocked him out of that consideration in most people's minds and Brooklyn took a chance knowing that there wasn't early morning there you go back and look aren't while you're twenty six and the strategy basically a wasteland almost ask it got by far the best player in that stretch Because they were willing to take that that chance on the medical rather than just draft somebody else who might not be as good and so can credit credit to Brooklyn. I mean they did a great job and they rehabilitated him physically now he's still had some other injury issues but he's he's a good productive player and a position of value to which. I think is important. You know those guys were twos and threes and can get their own shot and you have to defend on the perimeter. I think there's a lot of value with those guys beyond maybe the designation of starter backup and everybody's looking for them. And so I think at the very least Brooklyn where they hang onto him or not. He's not allowed trade value if they decide not to. And you know that's a factor too. You're building building a team. Who can you draft that? Maybe if they don't fit exactly we'll have trade value for you going forward. You can keep assembling pleases for your team. I thought that was great. Pick by GROPER okay. Pick twelve the jazz. Had this pick. They traded it to the hawks. Who Do you got? Yeah -nother guy were teams. Probably outsmart themselves. This guy had back and foot issues. Hadn't played a ton in Croatia and Serbia the year before and didn't have particularly great season but he had a really good worker. Of course I'm talking about in visas. Zoo bots Who is really coming on had a career this year at the age of twenty two? I think he can still get better. You can shoot outs amid rage. He's huge. He has good hands They don't really run a lot of stuff warm right now but I think he could take a bigger role if he was on a lesser team. I think he's a good player. And as long as he stays healthy he could be really good. Let's go to thirteen The kings get this pick as part of that trade with the sons. They pick probably the worst player that was available in the draft that thirteen which is kind of hard to do. I'm going to go with a with a young player that I hope now. Given the fact that he's been traded is going to start to see more opportunity and and I think can be a really productive player in the NBA. And that's Maliki Beasley. Another medical other medical guy shoots for his career thirty nine percent from three and really had a had situation in Denver where he struggled to get minutes coming off the bench. I think he's got a better opportunity now to show and and to and to shine as a basketball player and I still think there's a pretty good ceiling for him. If nothing else has just a player that can consistently stretch the floor. Yeah absolutely and you know. He's still pretty young. He missed a lot of his first season. He had issues with stress fractures. In in the one leg in and Potentially in the other leg that doctors were concerned about and then there was one other issue with him on the medical too so a lot of teams moved way down because of that people liked him coming out of Florida state body could shoot be able to defend well enough to play in the league. And that's really how it's four now and I think the the injury case I mean. Denver is a team. That's definitely been willing to take chances on Lebanese injury guys. It's worked out really well for most big beasley. I thought was a good example of that And he's I think he's GonNa turn out to be whether he's like whether he turns out to be a starter or a high level backup like he's definitely something and again at a position of NEAT teams are always looking for wings. Who could shoot okay? John You had the last pick fourteen. Let me finish the cockles boring. Finish US off in the most boring way possible for the Bulls This guy was projected to be a nice decent solid center. And he's become a nice decent solid center. I'm GONNA take Yacob pertile exactly. He is exactly what we thought he would be. He went a little bit high at nine to the raptors but but he's solid all right. Let's talk about a few players that didn't make the cut that made the cut on draft night drag a bender number four the Phoenix Suns. Here's a little story. I spent a lot of time in Israel in the Middle East. I went to several practices with drug and bender who wasn't getting a lot of minutes for mcabe and there was massive confusion among Israelis to why I was there scouting drug and bender. And how is he an MBA prospect and even further? There is like bulging out of their heads when I said Yeah. He's going to be a lottery. Pick he's going to be You know a top ten pick which was the consensus coming coming into the draft. The the number of arguments that I got into in Israel about drug and bender. And how there's no way he is going to be an NBA player or anything special. They turned out to be right and in the NBA turned out to be wrong. My life was miserable for that entire year. Everywhere I went. Everybody was like why in the world are you. Are you here scouting drug and bender? I got I saw him play at the euro camp the year so almost exactly one calendar year before he was drafted so who would have been like seventeen and a half basically and I remember talking to our international scout and talk to our front office. That just being like guys like I. I don't get it. What am I missing here like? Was He sick? Who was he injured like? What what's the deal was a seven footer? Who is who is supposed to be able to stretch the floor. Bright and was fairly athletic. I mean that's that was the thinking on it but there was a there was a lot of hype and and you know this was a Nicole. Lists gets really sort of situation where most of that hype was not him playing at a high level where you could really see how he was going to going to really adapt to playing with with other players of of his of his calibre and a bit of a workout wonder that even. I was surprised he moved all the way up to four in fairness to the sons. I think the general consensus among the NBA was that this was a top ten pick in the draft. Yes I pretty much. Yeah we're about as down on him as a team could be an. I mean like we still had him. I don't remember where exactly we had him but it was. You know it wasn't like forty two. We had them like I dunno ninth or twelve percent and I can't remember you know what I mean like. Everyone had him up there somewhere. Okay we talked about Kris done and I think we can move on from him mark. He's Chris also at Washington Super Athletic. I just I just don't think he was ever really a basketball. You know he was just like you seem even in warm ups before games and only doing practicing his dunks like I just the the this the cut it there has to be like some level of skill that goes along with that and it just it just wasn't there within. I was a bit excited about him. I get excited about these type of players. We don't have to talk about me. Pope and and my irrational exuberance over him one of the players. I completely forgot one of the players. I will forever be tied to someone who I got really excited about. These long athletic players that can jump out of the gym and stretch the floor that I get excited about except you know Chris. He's a career twenty nine percent three point shooter but he saw himself completely in that role. I know when I was there. Pre-draft watching him work out. All he wanted to do was play on the perimeter. That's how he saw himself and and I think some of that was his inability as well to to take. Coaching take instruction He saw himself a particular way. I don't think he actually had the skill set to be that type of player and those players tend to burn out pretty quickly in the NBA yet. Absolute Thon maker. We talked a little bit about He's turned into a at least the kind of serviceable role player. Ish Yeah we'll see. I mean his contract runs out. We'll see if he's in the NBA or Europe next year. You're high fiving on draft night because you got way Baldwin. He was supposed to go higher. He slipped to the Memphis grizzlies at seventeen. What happened with Baldwin? He had the tools. Obviously were so enticing. When you see a six four point guard was seven. Wingspan could do some of the things he could do. Is Shooting numbers at Vanderbilt? I think we're deceptive. In retrospect he really struggled to shoot. But I think I think even even beyond that Some of the some of that there were things that were hard to see until you got him in your in your own gym. Just the ability to The kind of emotional resilience to come back from From setbacks or or just poor stretches like you could just see like when things started to go bad they just kept going bad with him get never never quite get the train. Back on the rails. Those things happen. I mean he said he said NBA record in his first regular season game with us. I don't know if you remember. He had three steals three blocks five assists or like he was. He was the first player ever to do that in his first game. And but once once he hit tough stretches you the ability overcome those that adversity Wasn't there for whatever reason it was. It was really bizarre. All right. That's our look back at the two thousand sixteen NBA draft. Thanks John for all of your inside and those anecdotes and stories and we will be back next week. Redrafting the two thousand thirteen. Nba draft a draft. That everyone thought was going to be horrible but produced a league. Mvp You've been listening to Chad. Ford's big board on the locked on podcast network aloha.

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Ep 3: Who's No. 1 in the 2020 NBA Draft?

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

46:00 min | 6 months ago

Ep 3: Who's No. 1 in the 2020 NBA Draft?

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy chat. You're listening to Jeffords. Nba Big Board on the locked on podcast network. I'm your host had Ford and my guest. Today is the ringers. Nba Writer and draft Guru. Kevin O'Connor welcome to the show. Kevin Shad so good joining today. How you doing over in Hawaii? I'm doing really good and really excited to get you on the show. We've known each other for a long time had a lot of great conversations at the NBA draft combine over the years. I've been following your career at the ringer. Your draft guide and for the two year hiatus where. I wasn't really doing anything from the draft. You were my Go-to Guy. Thanks for coming on the show. An and helping us get started on the twenty twenty draft than normal little late to the game but given that we don't even know when the two thousand twenty draft is actually going to be. I think we have some time to figure it out. We've got a lot more time. I think that than we expected. I heard your pod earlier in the week with Mark Stein about when the draft will be in. I mean still could be June if there's no games but who knew who really knows and thank you for having me onto. Yeah love what you're doing. Love the draft guide for my listeners. Who Haven't checked out Kevin and his draft guide. It's amazing I want to start with. There's an irony. It's I'm two years off last year. Was Design Williamson Job mirant draft and awesome draft. Some really great prospects at the top. This year looks Kinda shaky talking to NBA teams and scouts. Over the last few weeks as I've been trying to build a big board based off of an MBA consensus. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus and and that's usually a sign that there's concerns for every player that there might not be your traditional franchise changing superstar at the top of this draft. You know there's a lot of talk about how the draft is weak and it's certainly week in terms of clear superstar talents and I'm talking about last year. You're thinking about Zion thinking about Luca the year before granted. He didn't go number one. That's different conversation but these are these top tier prospects that you could feel confident. Have a clear path to stardom. There's not that Guy. This year and a lot of the people that are talked about amongst scouts and executives who are the top prospects. Anthony Edwards James Wiseman Lamelo ball all of them are talented but they have significant flaws too. And that's true through you. Know the the five to ten range in the draft to but with that said though I think it is a draft. That's going to have a lot of good role players so in that sense it's not week it's just week with top tier talent and it seems to be one of these drafts and John Hollinger and I just we've been doing some redrafting. We just recorded two thousand thirteen draft which obviously had an MVP in the draft. He just went fifteen and another all star Rudy. Who went twenty seven but the guy at the top of the draft was it was a complete bust. This draft seems like that. There's going to be some of that right all of the top players. There's some pretty high ceilings with some of these players but there's also a lot of bus potential with a lot of these players because many of them have serious Achilles heels that if they don't get fixed if they don't work out they could struggle and less of the surefire players in there might be other drafts. I mean to me with everything I agree with and that kind of brings to mind. So what are you GONNA do? If you get a top pick and you're GONNA stay with that guy you're confident with or maybe the logical thing to do might be trade down or even a trade out if there's a team that's willing to overpay which there undoubtedly could be teams always fall in love with prospects. Every year it happens every team does get number one number two or three pick. Maybe it logically make some sense the trade down into the quote unquote safer range. Where you're spending less on the rookie scale contract to get a a a player. You feel more confident than has a higher floor as a really good role player. Who can help you right away rather than some of these sort are quote unquote boomer. Bust prospects up top when we talked about. Wiseman Ball Hayes Weisenthal Edwards. You know it's really interesting as I was looking back at two thousand thirteen and and what went wrong with the cavs Anthony Bennett? They brought in about six six players that I think they seriously considered with the number one pick. It was one of those years that there wasn't a lot of consensus and some of those players players like Otto Porter or victory depot. Who you could really project this having really solid NBA careers. But you knew. They weren't going to be franchised changing types of players and then there was guys like Anthony Bennett who were massive boom or bust type prospects. Maybe if Anthony Bennett hits his peak. He's a star but there was also tons of red flags about him. Orlands NOEL medical red flags and other red flags about them as well and it seems like ultimately the cavs decided we need a number one pick who could potentially be a franchise changer. And so we're going to take the risk. The risk obviously blew up in their face. The guy that went number two Victor Oladipo. Who didn't maybe have the the ceiling certainly turned into a really really terrific player. And you know that risk and reward is going to be very interesting because there's a lot of pressure on teams when you have the number one. Picking the draft to deliver a franchise type of player which means that there might be safer players on this board players. That can help you right away. Players that you're pretty confident have have a pretty high floor. But if they're not gonNA turn around your franchise will you have the guts with the number-one pick in the draft to take a look at the teams that potentially could have the number one pick and you look at their offices and you look how stable people's jobs are the pressures that different front offices feel it's going to be Y and we'll talk about this a little bit? It's GonNa be wildly different. I think depending on which team GETS THE NUMBER ONE PICK. I mean yeah exactly. It's the type of thing where James Wiseman is a different prospect center from from Memphis Than Anthony. Bennett was in that twenty thirteen draft but considering how raw he is as a player when you compare it to his potential upside. You know seven foot. Run the floor. He has flashes eighty like flashes. But he's not that player That is the player fans are likely going to become obsessed with that fans are going to want. That's the player. The owners are probably going to be like. We need that guy is the highest upside player. But you're GonNa have your front offices that are like wait a minute here. There's a lot of risk for me and my job in my future when they're safer bets. So you're going to see all these philosophical arguments within for offices never mind between different. Different teams would the way to go in this year's draft to me even though there's not that Zaylon there's not that Luca. I like that because that makes it fun for us as well when it comes to debating and talking about who are the guys should go not just one but who. The guy should go five or top ten for that matter. Okay we're we're just GonNa talk about prospects that could be potential number one picks in the draft. Today we'll come back in another pot and get to some of the other lottery type prospects. I'm GonNa put you on the spot here. Kevin all the games have been played. There's not going to be a combine. I'm not sure there's going to be really much in the way of workout. So in many ways the scouting part of this is done. Obviously there's some medical issues and teams. I'm sure we'll continue to gather intel and do you know player interviews and things like that but from from scouting standpoint. I think we're unusually sort of done right for this for this year's draft so I think it's time to debut the number one pick on your big board Kevin. We are going to do it right after the break. You are listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board. Podcast on the lockdown network sports have come to a screeching halt with basketball benched. 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I have killing Hayes number one Eighteen year old guard who played overseas in Germany. This year. Look this year. It's still fluid. Even though the scouting processes over there still so much more to do with gathering Intel and figuring out who these guys are as people and how they will continue to mature over time and personality is so integral to success for players. But would that said with that process still ongoing Hayes to me the progress. He made this season from. Last year is massive. There are shades of James Harden with him in terms of that he is integrated double setbacks. Sidra threes quick pull ups and I'm not saying that he's hard and of course harden is one of the greatest scores in NBA history. All I'm really saying is that in one year he went from not using these moves to utilizing them quite effectively in pro league. You've we've seen his handle improve over time. I would bet on that continuing to improve which was only going to activate his shot making ability and in today's league. Those are the most valuable players guys who can create an generate shots for you and Hayes has shown the ability to create for himself as well as some really nice playmaking vision for an eighteen year old guard to develop into a guy that can be one or two of your lead ball handlers. On a really good team. I think that your choice is going to surprise a lot of people both outside the NBA and inside the NBA. I in in just my cursory talks with NBA teams. I'm not sure that I've had a team. Mention has the number one prospect but there are a lot of really intriguing things about Hayes and you mentioned you mentioned all of them and especially the progress that he's made this year but there are obviously with him. This is partly again what we're talking about. No sure fire picks in the draft. There's some things that that Hayes doesn't do. That could really hurt his his overall development right like. He's not the elite athlete that can blow by people based off of sheer athleticism turnover. St Seem Pretty High. He's got that reputation as a shooter but in League play. He shot twenty nine percent from three this year anti seems to be a little bit left. Hand dominant to me are. Are you concerned at all about some of those things with Hayes and especially projecting him as the top prospect in the draft? Yeah for sure and I have concerns about all these top guys and I think with Hayes. Look. I entered the season the college season with Anthony Edwards as my number one player. And Right now. He's my two in reality. These guys are in the same group the same tier and things need to shake themselves out same with Lamelo ball for that matter to right now just to put out there as one Anthony Edwards to Lamelo Ball. Three those guys could be interchanged as until comes in on them but as you mentioned is twenty nine percent from three and that is true that is a concern but I do look at the fact that he's an eighty six percent free throw shooter on nearly three hundred attempts the last three years and that he has very very good touch on floaters pull ups for mid range from the paint as well as on some real crafty layups so if shooting is the most important skill in the NBA Today for guards and wings and fords and with Hayes. I feel more confident with his shot. Moving forward than I do with Anthony Edwards. Who doesn't have that same touch who also shoots a low. Three point percentage but as a worst free throw shooter I feel more confident with Hayes. Ninety with Lamelo Ball Lamelo. I also have some confidence for the same reason that I knew with Hayes. He has very good touch from mid range on his floaters. He is a much better free. Throw shooter and he also somebody that. It's more mechanical with his form and and his consistency with his foot work. That needs the chains as shooter so. Lamelo there's hesitations but I feel some confidence with Anthony Edwards the shot. I'm a little bit more concerned about and with Hayes to get bring it back to him. I think I just look at the fact that he is so such good touch and that free throw percentage is historically a better predictor future success actual three-point percentage. And I feel some level of confidence with him that I may not with other prospects in this draft. And he's done. He's done so much off the dribble to. I mean like it's not like he's just catch and shoot you know nine percent a lot of lot one. Big reason for the lower numbers is shooting off the dribble which has been part of his role and responsibility to okay. Here's my number one guy. And and even this morning I was bouncing back and forth between between two guys Lamelo ball or James Wiseman and I'm GonNa go with the ball but let me say a word about wise men and why I'm still considering him as a potential number one prospect. Sometimes I think we can over think these things and you look at the production that that he had in high school. He didn't get really have a college career. And I think that's very very frustrating for for a lot of teams because you're not able to scouting and sometimes that can go either way right. If you don't have a lot of tape to watch a player on you can either project all of the positives onto a player and romanticize about what they can be. I call Nicole is skit syndrome. I the one that I fell for falling in love with the player in in an empty Jim. It doesn't really work out in five on five but I also think that you can obsess over weaknesses of a player and not allow for maturity or growth. Because you're not getting to see that growth happened on the court in Weisman's case being ruled ineligible by the NC Double A. Was a big part of that and and I wonder when you look at all the tools whether he can continue to develop and grow and there are so many tools. There that scream. Nba Player. That I think you'd be really defensible. Number one pick in the draft. But but I'm going with ball because I love super high basketball. Iq Great feel for the game players that can play multiple positions and just watching ball in Australia this year. And I know he has warts and probably his biggest ward is that he carries the ball baggage with him talking to the NBA. Gm's especially who are sick everything associated with the name? It actually is hurting him right. They don't want to deal with his father. They don't want to deal with the hype. They saw all the things. That sort of happened with the Lakers and Lamelo seems to have a maturity about him that he's putting a lot of that aside that he's stepping away from a lot of that. I'm not sure it's necessarily fair to project on him. What happened with his brother? What's going on with his dad especially given some of the maturity. I think that we saw in Australia this year. If one of your beliefs of mine is that if you really really know how to play the game you're going to figure things out in the NBA. Unless you have just some massive massive disabilities as as far as a basketball player go. I think ball's GONNA figure it out. I don't WanNA compare him to Luca Danni but there was a reason that don chats foul a little bit in the draft when pt Donncha which was a basketball genius athletic enough or explosive enough and there was little things here there that overshadowed the fact that that don was a basketball genius. I WanNa bat on ball. I realized that there are reasons to be concerned. That shooting form when you sort of look at maybe some of the things that didn't translate with his brother coming from Ucla to to the NBA. I think he's gotTa be better for most of the teams. That could be drafting number one. I think he's he's my guy you know. It's natural to compare lamelo ball to Lonzo ball brothers after all and there are similarities But the one big difference between those two is that Lamelo is a much better ball handler. He has much better burst and shifting off the dribble and to me that gives him an edge as a prospect. If you're comparing just those two and Lamelo I mean how lucky are we? Luca trae Joh- just the past two years. These dynamic ball handlers with excellent vision as as teenagers and now Lamelo ball coming in with his ability to just pass in every direction the court with per with great vision and great accuracy off either hand with either hand has a passer. I mean he's he's magnificent. He still needs to improve his decision making but that's the he already has improved and the can projecting forward that will continue to get better for him. You mentioned some of the concerns with him. That really does come down to like does for many players though. His jump shot right. I mean you mentioned how Hayes shot only twenty nine percent from three Lamelo shot only twenty eight percent from three he all and he was only seventy percent from the line to so with. Lamelo that is also a concern because without the jumper. You're GONNA have defenders going under screens rather than fighting over picks which is going to eliminate limit his playmaking upside in the half court. So that's the area. Where if you take him number one or you take him two or three for that matter. You're betting big shot gets better like it has for his brother and as I said earlier I think that's a fair bet. He's solid free. Throw shooter is good. Touch lay ups and he has some craft to him around the rim. I think it's projectable that that shot improves Do you do you feel confidence in it as well Chad. The one of the things that he has over his brothers. He's bigger and don't want to make this comparison because it's not an apples to apples comparison. But you know Ben. Simmons can't shoot to save his life. I still really think he was still the best player in that draft. If Ben Simmons could shoot the basketball he's an MVP candidate given how great a defensive players and how great he is in initiating an offense and what have you. But even. If that doesn't develop. I think Paul has that potential because everything else really speaks to being a really good player even an all star in the league even if he is just a thirty percent three point shooter in the NBA. I I of course hope that it's much better than that but even thirty one thirty two percent three point shooter in the NBA. That really is much better than Ben Simmons. Now of course Ben. Simmons is an elite athlete. And one thing we could probably pick out on ball. Is that as far as defensively goes. He's a massive work in progress. Big Time big time and that would lamelo. It's more than just a shooting a offensively. It's also the fact that he's pretty versed contact around the RIM to. He does have touch on those floaters and crafty layouts but he doesn't really initiate contact or handle contact well around the rim either. And that's what often separates good and great. Scores is the ability to draw and get to contact and get through the line and finish through contacts so never mind the defensive weaknesses with fundamentals disciplined focus. I mean up and down the board. This concerns there. There's potentially I mean he's. He's agile theoretically with his length his size he could comfortably defend guards and wings too. He's he shows that he's an act of rebounder as well. But there's definitely concerns beyond that you know. I guess you mentioned wise. Men was the other guy that you thought about. What is it that gives volley edges that really just the playmaking ability of the fact that you can carry a team over wise? When who's just more of a guy who's going to play off of others with wise men. I WANNA see again and we just didn't get to see this year you can fall in love with his jump shot and I'm not sure that his jump shot is anything that you should fall in love with. Let alone that. He should fall in love with a given is talented. He's GonNa be terrific rim writer. I think we know that you know seen him on on on a golden state team for example where he could be really special down the road. he's undisciplined and we didn't see things like in his inconsistent motor that we saw throughout high school. We didn't really get a C. Enough at Memphis to see you know. Was that just being disinterested. Because he's playing against you know guys that he's clearly better than was he going to step that up when he got to college. I mean there are so many questions that we didn't quite get answered with him you get back to Iq and basketball IQ and feel for the game. And if I'm going to bet between two players I'm going to bet on that that's just that's just me. I am within. I mean ultimate. We have different guys up top. You know but I think we're sort of thinking along the same lines of Matt. I Have Hayes Edwards Ball. Three larger ball handlers. Who can potentially help carrier off? It's I prefer you know ball handlers with size in today's NBA. Which is the position Lewis? And we're in. It's the small guards attending pick pick taught on the defensive end of the floor. Or it's the big guys who can't shoot that are liabilities to your offense or the big men who can't defend the perimeter of their liabilities to your defense and so I think those bigger guards or bigger wings that can handle the ball that that's what I'd be seeking out at the top of this year's draft class and whether it's ball or as or or Anthony Edwards who we didn't get into any of those three guys to me have some appeal as the topic. Let's take a break and we'll get back to Anthony Edwards We'll be back looking at other potential number one candidates on the next segment with Kevin O'Connor you're listening to Chad Ford's big board. Let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead. It's hard to find the time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. You can't read or work on personal development. There is an incredible APP that solves this problem and I highly recommend it. It's called blinking. 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Kevin O'Connor about the potential number one prospects in the two thousand twenty NBA draft. We talked about Lamelo Ball. We talked about Kevin Surprise Number One. Pick Killian Hayes and we've talked a bit about James. Wiseman who kind of came into the season. Many people sort of projecting as the top prospect in the draft. Now we're GonNa talk about some other players teams and Kevin and I project as potential. Number one picks. They're not number one on our board but they could end up having their name called first on draft night. Let's start with Anthony Edwards out of Georgia. He's number two on your boys little bit lower on my board. Why is he the number two prospect on your board Kevin Edwards ranked first before the year and he very well might may end up back. I he I haven't second. He's a bruising score he reminds me a bit of a Victor Oladipo or Eric Gordon. In the way that he uses his size to create space off the dribble. And I don't have one at the moment though I'm big on decision. Making you mentioned the athleticism aspects with with him. It's it's really impressive. But the decision making is not and for me. That's the area that we I WANNA see moving forward in the NBA. The most striking that he makes he shows flashes as a passer especially when on the open floor and in his transition but some of the decision makings as a shooter is worrisome. I I would love to see him attack more. I mean he is so big. He can overpower anybody especially in the college level but oftentimes he fell in love with his jumper a bit too much. And he's a he's an average shooter. Maybe can become a good shooter but I don't see him becoming a great shooter and it doesn't have to be to be a really good player But his decision making is just an area that I I wanNA see him improve quite a bit. This kid is special. He's built like a tank. He is a bruiser. He's an amazing athlete. You know all the physical tools are there. It's the basketball. Iq Thin and you know watching him. Play Georgia watching the inconsistency and just trying to get my arms around feel right for the game and what's happening on the floor and I think you and I both know that whatever's happening on the floor at Georgia. It's GonNa get extremely more complicated when it gets to the NBA. And what he's going to have to to read and how he's GonNa have to read defenses and what he's going to have to do at the NBA level. It's GONNA get harder. I'm not saying that. He can't develop because obviously he can. And we've seen a number of prospects that that didn't look like they had great basketball IQ and as as a freshman in college and have turned out to be really terrific players. But but I'm worried and number of NBA teams that. I've been talking to over the last couple of weeks. It's it's a pretty big red flag for them. The physical part a hundred percent. They're they're in and what he can do on the Basketball Court ultimately. How is he going to feel the game? I think that that is a question mark and as you said the other thing about his shooting. I agree with you. He doesn't have to be a great shooter in the NBA to be successful in the NBA. But he has to know that he's not a great shooter and not fall in love with his jump. Shot and that become the primary weapon in his offense if he's not going to develop as a as a shooter. I feel like with Edwards. I mean look at him. Six foot five six nine six ten wingspan. He's built like a tank like you said and his body's probably only going to improve with NBA strength conditioning programs. Like check check check check with the athletism aspects with his game. And you think about somebody like that. You're like ooh could be a really really versatile defender with the quickness against guards and size defend bigger players and yet the effort is not always there. There's Times where he sitting in. His stance locking down crashed into the boards. But then there's times where he just sorta checks out and and it really is frustrating with guys like that. You know we see this. Every year with a certain prospects were hot and cold and Edwards fits into that as well because he doesn't focus off ball as a defender when you think about how much he could wreak havoc on in in the passing lanes as a help defender around the ram you think about its fundamentals on the ball. He's able to really just stain his stance and be focused. He could be a great on ball defender and maybe he will be some day but the effort and the consistency with its focus has not always been there on defense. Just add on offense. There's those same questions reading the floor and I have him second. I I feel pretty good with him. There if you're betting on a prospect this high in the draft but there is certainly some downside with those type of fundamental high IQ vision types of flaws with him Sort of similar to what you said with James Wiseman right I mean he's sort of the guard wing version in the Strand of as wise is big when you're talking about feel yeah unsexy physicality I mean when you look at all the physical tools. It's so sexy and it makes a lot of sense that when you look at if you just look at that profile. They fit the profile of the number one prospect because of their their size athleticism explosiveness whatever that does fit the profile of the number one prospect. It's does the head and unfortunately in the you need both if I had air an only choose one or the other average athleticism high basketball. Iq elite athleticism low basketball IQ. I think this is why Lamelo ball is is number one on my board interesting. I mean I think that's also why you know Lamelo gets over wise for you comparing against positions with a one thing. That's on my mind this year. Is THAT ROOKIE SCALE CONTRACT? That number one. Pick GONNA get paid forty eight million over four seasons twelve million dollars annually and so the big question that I have on my mind this year in regards to these prospects. That don't have feel at this time is do. I want to spend that type of money on a big like Wiseman who may not make a positive impact over the duration of the deal when we have in the league. Proven bigs like Clint's Capella who make fourteen million. Or You have bargains like Daniel Thais who make five million or Javale McGee who makes four million. I mean when I think about Wiseman I I feel like that. Opportunity Costs Pretty significant and that. That's why I would rather sort of bet on some of these guys that have feel who have a higher basketball like you. I mean we didn't mention on. Uk Okon grew the center from USC. But I prefer him over James Wise but I think he's ready to come in right away in play any still has high upside long-term too and I worry I worry with Weisman that of all the things you just mentioned. You mentioned the fundamentals. You mentioned the ability to read the floor. I there's a Lotta Andrew wiggins and him as he's a big man but in terms of intangible qualities he has the athleticism he can put up the numbers but I worry if I a team with that number one pick. Is that the guy. I want to invest twelve million dollars annually in or would I rather go with a guy who I feel more confident in the can help me. Through the first four years of that contract and beyond maybe invest in a cheaper center on the market who can probably perform in a higher level than wise men can early in their careers because of the his inability at the time at this time with fundamentals with reading the floor with discipline. That's sort of the way I'm thinking about. My rankings. To this year is sort of beyond just the player themselves but how they fit into the whole sort of team building structure. Well that's a really interesting point with the Congo Wu. And what what you mentioned with him at USC and you have him ahead of Wiseman if you look at ceiling wiseman surpasses him. But then if you look at floor. Weisman's floor is lower. Wise Weisman as Wiseman has a basement congress. Doesn't you know the call right away? It's going to be able to be an impact playoffs. Smart he is on the court both ends already a good perimeter defender. He can switch Watson's not there yet. You're right Wiseman has a higher ceiling theoretically but theoretically I I worry about his probability of actually reaching it and this is again where things get difficult because we're basing almost all of this off a high school basketball career. Yeah and again. He didn't play Enough Memphis and didn't play against the talent we needed to see him. Play against to really see whether he improved on some of those things whether there's a maturity level there and something else is that sort of player that is going to hit the gym and keep working on his game. Keep keep refining his weaknesses in the NBA. And O'Connor who? I agree with you a lot of those things I like but then again you know you're talking about a player. That's not a stretch threat. Who's a bit undersized? Plays like a five. But he's kind of in the body of a four lowest cyst raid even though it looks like there's some some real basketball. Iq there any chance he goes number. One probably not probably he should be in the conversation in my opinion. If we're talking bigs I wouldn't take them number one but I think he's I think he's a top big in the draft and I. I mean look wise. Men's upside is undeniable. When you talk about the fact that he he has shown that he could maybe be a perimeter threat. That can do a lot off. The dribble is a big man. There's re rare qualities there but with all the weaknesses. I just look back at. Oh congruous and I look at the sky and I'm like yeah. Maybe he doesn't have the ceiling but already at eighteen years old. He is GonNa be a guy that I feel confident. We'll be great screener and a great finish around the rim. He's can be a law threat or he can finish with touch using either hand. He can handle a little bit for you as well. I mean you can put down the ball one or two times on a roll to the rim and he. He needs to get better at passing but he has shown vision of making some slick passes either as an outlet. Passer or sometimes. I'm a short roll. Making some quick reads. I don't I don't think. His vision is necessary reflective of his negative assist turnover ratio. I I think watching the film with him a little bit misleading and on the offensive end. I look at a guy that can fit into a role and make a positive impact impact for you. Then when you look at the defense he already has a good. I Q a good awareness of where to be in pick and roll defence. You can drop. He can hedge. He can switch. He is good defender he can. He can switch as I said onto quicker perimeter players and play with good fundamentals sliding his feet laterally to keep in front. He's a smart player on both ends of the court and I think about who does he remind me of. I look at someone like Bam at a bio a guy who has a rising star all story this year. He's not a traditional superstar necessarily but he's a foundational piece on a team that will soon have championship aspirations. If they're able to add one more star in the near future and I. I don't know if if if Wiseman is the road I WANNA go down. I mentioned the ROOKIE SCALE CONTRACT NUMBER PICK. But also you know if he's that guy who shows flashes he's GonNa get paid twenty five million dollars plus whenever that deal is up and I don't I in today's league. I don't feel good about investing that amount of money in a center who isn't a Joel. Embiid nickel Yokich type of big man. Who can really be the face of my franchise I just. I don't I just don't feel good about going down that path. I'd rather take the guy that I feel I can help me more now. Instill more easily fits into a role even in in his second contract and beyond I. I don't know maybe I'm leaning too much on the weaknesses with Wiseman but I I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad thing to obsess. Over everything I mean you can't obsess over just the positives or obsess over just the negatives that's when you get yourself into trouble big time but the negatives are real and they should be looked at under a microscope and I just worry about what he's going to be when he Max's is considering his fundamental IQ flaws when it comes to reading the floor and all that on both ends. I HAVE REAL CONCERNS THERE. Which is why. I have fifth right now and honestly had like he might end up lower he might I mean. There's there's a handful of guys that I feel like fit into that. Okon route category. That can fit in for you still retain some upside. They just have much higher floors than than wiseman does great stuff Kevin. We're GONNA quick hit on two other names that I'm hearing a few teams have have mentioned two other names One that I think college basketball fans will be very familiar with. Ob topping is. Is this a case? Where he's penalized. Because he's a little bit older because he plays Dayton and were missing Agai who could come in and make an impact right away in the NBA with athleticism with Pretty Polished Offensive Game. And yes there's warts with ob topping as well but we might be missing a little bit by by trying to project sexiness and then tyrod. Halliburton high basketball IQ. Good shooter size for position. Awesome at the floater game. Oh actually carries many of the attributes that that we like a little bit in some of those other big guards but struggles to take off the dribble not an elite elite athletes. Lack slack. Strength doesn't get to the line enough where those guys out on your big board right now with ob topping. I mean he's a clear top. Ten Guide put him in that same category that I just mentioned someone who could end up fifth on my board. I think I have a maybe seven or eight right now. He's in that conversation with. Ob I mean you did the STOTTLEMYRE draft. How much does he remind you of Stottlemyre? Granted Amari was much younger when he came in but in terms of player contracts on the offensive end. There's a lot of similarities I- opinion there. I I see it as well and it's one of those ones where I'm like are we are. We may be missing something. That's right in front of our face here in the draft and we we saw that a little bit with the two thousand thirteen draft as well because again we're trying to project sexiness and one of the things. That sexy is young and a little more unknown. Yeah I see him. I think he's in my top five already into Haliburton. Where do you got him? Halliburton another top. Ten Guy. Same same ranges top and right now I mean how can you not like Halliburton as a player? You mentioned all the good things about Lamelo Ball with his high high passing ability. Halliburton all the same can be said. I. I love him as a prospect. I to me him and top in our xactly. That's in Congress to or the Zach type of guys that I'm talking about with this year. It's week in terms of clear star talent but it is quite good in my opinion when it comes to guys that can come in and make a positive impact for you in the right role. Halliburton with his. Iq always in control with his ability to create with some real knack for for creativity for his teammates and for himself. I mean he can deliver any type of pass on the court for you and then you factor in the fact. He's improved a lot as a spot up shooter and he looks better off the dribble as well. The defense is concerning with him. Which is why it's on the top guy not not a top number one. Pick right now but on the offense of he's going to help your team for sure Kevin. Thanks for coming on and talking about those top prospects in the draft and really excited that you've got Killian Hayes killing as it can be trending on twitter now That you've got him number one on your big board really appreciate all your insights all your work. All your passion. We're GONNA have you back if that's okay Talking about the lottery teams and what they might do with number one pick in the draft. Now I really appreciate it. Chad Means a lot for you to look forward to doing and get it next week. So thank you. I'm looking forward to it. You have been listening to Ted Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. I've been with Kevin O'Connor.

NBA James Wiseman basketball Kevin O'Connor Lamelo Ball Killian Hayes Weisenthal Edwards Kevin Chad Ford Times Memphis Weisman David Locke intel Lamelo Ball Lamelo Anthony Edwards Victor Oladipo Lamelo Lamelo
As NBA Players Protest Police Brutality Around the Country, the League Is Locking in Its Return Plan | The Mismatch

The NBA Show

40:45 min | 4 months ago

As NBA Players Protest Police Brutality Around the Country, the League Is Locking in Its Return Plan | The Mismatch

"Welcome to the Ringer NBA show I'm Chris Vernon and typically Georgia on Tuesdays, but yesterday we did not have a show given everything that is taking place in the world today. You may have seen a lot of your favorite shows takeout. Take off and be part of blackout. Tuesday as were we but today we have NBA news. WE HAVE BEEN SPENDING A. An incredible amount of time waiting to see if the NBA was to be coming back now given the circumstances of the world today. Kev while we do have news to talk about today. You know. You saw Patrick Beverley tweeting earlier today when this news broke that. Basketball, that's not it right now, and there are a lot bigger things going on in the world than when the NBA is coming back, but we do do the NBA. Show here and so we did want to fill people in on the news, and also what we think about the season returning, but clearly this is secondary on everybody's mind including those within the League. Since we last spoke on Friday. It's been. It's been incredibly inspiring. Seeing guys like Jaylen Brown and Malcolm, Brogdon and Matisse Fiber, and just an Anderson and Ben Simmons out there on the streets or using their platforms on social media to speak out against police brutality racial inequality in the murder of George Floyd You Know I. I don't I don't know. Why Basketball's coming back? I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about doing my job with all. That's going on right now. I, just I don't know and I feel like a lot of players feel the same way you see Patrick Beverley tweeting out today after the report. About the game coming back and how it might look, he said you know basketball is not important right now, just not and I feel that, too. But I can't help but feel inspired seeing D. Mato players out there using their platforms. To try and make a positive difference in this world. You know we've talked for the past couple of months. Chris with the coronavirus pandemic about how basketball returning would be sort of like a signal that society is made some progress moving forward, and you know in some sense of normalcy and that's still stands true with the pandemic happening, but right now I'm sort of feeling like I hope basketball. Coming back can be something that. Serves an and puts a spotlight on players, tabby, and even louder voice, and to be something that helps spread more good and to help make more positive change because there's so much that needs to change, but in order for things to change there needs to be leaders, and we're seeing guys like Jaylen Brown and Malcolm Brogdon step up and speak in a way that p people listen people listen, and and I only can hope that when basketball does return if it can return safely because of the pandemic I hope a lot of people out there, listening with open hearts and open ears and I hope the NBA can be something more than any of us could have ever expected for making change in the world. Maybe that's just an optimist in me because there's so many issues that are complicated to talk about complicated to solve, and many of them have never been solved for decades and hundreds of years But I just hope basketball can be something that is more than just around ball going into a hoop. with does come come back in July, but as you said with so many, and we've talked so many times about when you walk into NBA Locker rooms. How many good guys there are throughout the league and how many thoughtful guys that there are. Are Throughout the league in you have seen so many of them. In fact, a majority use their platform and use their voice for good throughout this time, and and I've talked about this many times. Everybody that listens knows I have a young son who is ten years old, and guess what his biggest heroes outside of his dad. I hope you know our. Our our our our NBA players and former NBA players, and I think that when when these guys I. I I think even when you when are growing up Somebody speaking out on social issues. It wasn't it was not necessarily rare but everybody did know that that was the guy that is speaking out on something. And now it's almost as if who is the guy not speaking up about something? Because now given social media given the platforms that all of these guys have and and that how much they loved their teammates that they all in solidarity then use their voice and I cannot it becomes immensely powerful towards there are some people that you cannot change, but there's there's a whole generation of people that look up to these guys so much and the idea that then they hear that message, and they take that message very seriously because those are the people that they look up to. These athletes, and so when they they have this power to really alter people's thinking and make it real to people and I I think that there has been I i. think I think that history is going to look back on this time where it's not like just that guy or by was the guy brave enough to to speak out that now you're seeing a sea change where athletes are using their platforms and NBA players specifically as we talk about on. On this show you see them out marching with by saw Dirk Nowitzki was helping clean up the city of Dallas yesterday, and on and on it is ingrained. Societal issues have never been hard for the NBA tackle in the first place. They have clearly been bolder than many of their peers shore whether it's an I can't breathe shirt A. it's a trayvon. Martin who devoto recall so powerful when the heat put it out when the Brandon delayed were there. And now you have seen it almost becomes overwhelming. How many are willing to speak up? And how much how much that can change? People's thought processes because these are guys that they love, and they root for and the idea that they feel some kind of way almost in unison should make everybody incredibly disappointed and understand that that can't be so if I don't care what your politics are care what you believe in that cannot be so. We can't have people in this country. When they see the lights in their rear view mirror being terrified, that cannot be. And so I I've been you know the there obviously has been. Disappointment that has taken place when you see people, businesses are ruined or whatever else, but I am heartened by the fact of how many of these people that my son has their Jersey and looks up to that. The message that they spread and their ability to use their platform I I will tell you that is extremely profound. Yet I mean and and I think you know that that's where like I think about it for like especially the youth you know if there's a young basketball fan out there, and he sees some of his favorite players, or she sees some of her favorite players. You know speaking out about the issues that matter and the issues that can make this world in this country. A better place for everybody that, even if they. They have surrounding influences Baker Up, and like ninety nine percent white town. You know own if their parents alike are racist or even a little prejudice, you know I'm doing quotation marks when I say that the if they had their if their favorite players are talking about these things that, maybe that kid, regardless of the people around them, and their life is going to grow up to be accepting and inclusive and to. Truly truly always practice equality, and whatever wherever their life takes them You know there's a lot that needs to change immediately with the current people that are in power, but there's also a lot that needs to change over time with the youth that are eventually going to become young adults, and that are eventually going to become people who are actually in the workforce and actually have a vote so I, I can only hope the basketball whether it's with older people or whether it was with the youth like you. You know you mentioned. Young kids I I. To me like it feels less important than ever. That basketball comes back. But in some ways I retain you know. Maybe this is the optimism you like I said but I retain some hope that it can also become more important than ever. in a in ways that we don't expect or didn't expect because of the way these players. Are already doing so much good in already have done so much good in past years when we've had situations with protests. Like Ferguson you know they met. You mentioned the I can't breathe shirts Yeah I, I. Hope this turns into something that is A. Powerful and impactful in the world, and you know who knows. Maybe it just turns out just to be basketball, and that's all it is, but and maybe like there's some good that can come from just basketball, too, but I don't think it's going to be I I. Don't think I don't think these players you know. Would the PAT platforms that they have when the power that they wield influence change are going to pass on an opportunity to do that, and and I think ask comes back. We're going to see something very very powerful in the world, and I I just hope that makes a lasting impact for things that need to change in society. Very well, said there has been news about a return to a basketball court and that it was going. It is going to happen It's still got a long ways off until we're watching a basketball game jeff. July thirty first long ways away, that is a long way away, but they're talking about team starting to work out, and then having camps at the beginning of July, and then there would be the resumption of play at the end of July. When you see the tentative calendar, 'cause. This is clearly who knows what the future of what's going to happen with football. You know what I mean. That's obviously a topic here and you wonder you know what the overlap is going to be. Football is going to be starting on time what we don't know about their plans to, but clearly it is a different point in the calendar than. What is typical for the NBA and they're talking about the end of July to you know the first part of October sometime in October Dan determined October but like the one thing I. Just WanNa hit those with the potential proposal that Adam silver supposed to deliver to the Board of Governors meeting on Thursday it's the twenty two teams. which is the Portland Trailblazers New Orleans? Pelicans San Antonio Spurs Sacramento Kings Washington. Wizards and Phoenix. Suns would be the additional six teams in addition to the Eight karn playoff teams in each conference, and with the way the plan tournament would work is that if the nine seed is within four games? After the eight games played, then a plan tournament would be played. It would be single elimination so if let's say for example, the Grizzlies, the eight seed face the Pelicans the nine seed. If the grizzlies went once they're in there the eighth seed, if the Pelicans when once they have to win again. In order to get in to the eight seed and playing typical seven game series, so bad is potential proposal that silver. We'll, deliver. On Thursday at the Board of Governors meeting. Okay, well, obviously I was going to be. Everybody listening to this podcast knows I care deeply about what happens with that particular grizzlies team and you know we've talked about all they want Diane. Bryant went on, ESPN, saying the NBA he's trying to find a way to get zeile. Williams and into this thing, and it was like a the when the season ended, the grizzlies had the three and a half game lead on everyone and I will tell you coming from that perspective I I. I don't think they were screwed in the least honestly like I. Think this is. What's Fair's fair. Yeah, everybody's going to have eight games If you can't you, you have the opportunity to extend that lead, so if you are good enough, extend the lead, and then you're not. You don't even have to play in a play in and. Honestly the only opportunity for them not to be in a play in is if if they go, say three and five in those games, which is crappy record, write to other teams would have to go seven and one in order for them to not be in a play in you know, and so you've got that opportunity to you every opportunity to make the playoffs, and then even if it comes down to that and and the team. Go seven to one and you go three and five, and they will take well. Look now. You GotTa play your way in. You've got a chance to go. You've got a chance to make it I don't. I. Don't particularly have any issue with I. think that's fair. Especially with the double elimination thing that's that is fair to a team that had built up a three and a half game lead I was surprised. You know with all twenty two. Phoenix needs to send an entire gift box to Washington. Because doesn't this feel like? How how do we get another West team? Or how do we get another team in? WILL WE'RE GONNA? Get an another team in then. We've got to add because I mean that's. What he's GonNa go eight. No. You know what I'm saying like I mean, and then the other teams are all going to be their opportunity to make it to. Even a pliant game is just. Infinitesimal but it feels like they didn't WanNa have just west teams involved and so phoenix gets the benefit of them adding Washington into this I've heard I've heard that that the original proposal, but the NBA plan on going with last week was twenty teams. That this car puzzle wouldn't have included Washington and Phoenix met within twenty four hours before that meeting last week that they changed at the twenty two to include Washington and Phoenix both of whom did to play moving forward because they feel like they have shot. You know rightfully so or not, you know because they want more games played for financial reasons and so on. On so forth you know I. It's been reported by roads and low that these other teams that won't play or won't be invited. to Disneyworld want to have some sort of way to play this summer whether it's a fall camper, whatever That's another issue for another day, but that was one of the reasons. I think for the NBA that these two teams. Look Phoenix was a half game back from the other teams that are in it with Phoenix I can understand why they would wanna opportunity, despite the fact that the odds are against them, because if you get hot if you get really hot here, maybe you do play away into that ninth seed as unlikely as it might be, but I. Don't have I mean. My preference was a group stage. You and I talked about back and forth I don't have many issues with this I. Don't get like super stoked about it I'm stoked. Basketball could be back, but the format itself. It's great you know cool. They get to experiment with the plane tournament and with the group stage that we outlined last week show. Hopefully you know for the NBA that with the positive reaction to it with the interest that there was from teams that they would potentially use that as a format for an NCAA tournament in the future, the backup be the type of thing and format and structure that they use for an Ncaa Tournament and the play tournament could be used this summer as a way to see how it works out for potential season, so in that sense. I'm I'm glad the NBA and Teams are willing to experiment with this type of format, and it is fair in the sense that. With every team, only playing eight more games. They'RE GONNA get. You know to like seventy two to seventy five games total. This format for the plan sort of can simulate the end season playoff race that would have occurred if Memphis is up only two games on new, Orleans or Orlando's only up three games on Washington. At the end of the Games. If there had been ten more games remaining in the in the season. The plan sort of gives you an idea of you know early in a fair way simulates. What might have have well perfect, but it's it's. It's solid fighting for me. to me I. Don't think you'll find because they gave you the opportunity. It is double elimination. If you're the one in the lead, and so that to me, look, who are you win? You GotTa Win One game. You got to win one game. There's nobody to complain to. You know to mean you and you can lose twice and you just have to win one game so I. Mean you've got built in advantages in order to be, you're given all manner of opportunity to keep your slot. You know and it's up to you I. mean you compete for this stuff now? What's going to be fascinating is? How the eight games lay out vincent good will from Yahu, reported that the initial plan is for. Whatever your next eight games were when the season ended? then. That's what you going to play and if you do play somebody that's not there if you are going against in Atlanta or Chicago or a knicks, or whatever it may be that you would just move on to the next game now. Clearly everybody's going to be doing a deep dive debts. Let's give an example of that. Let's let's give one quick example just so people understand so so for Memphis. For example bear schedule would be straight through as planned Portland. Utah San Antonio Oklahoma City Milwaukee New Orleans New Orleans. Boston Correct Kris. Schedule right you if you pull up, New Orleans this is not good for New Orleans because new. Orleans dare schedule next eight is not nearly. They had just gone on road trip. When this thing ended the it was the very end of their schedule. That was absolute cake the last it was. Team for them right? Yeah, yeah, and so this portion of the schedule. This is not an easy does not replicate the fact that they had a very easy schedule. The rest of the way right because you know you do wonder if you're especially if you're going to be a conspiracy theorist. This. New, Orleans GonNa have to easy as eight games ever. Will Truth be told no matter what combination of these teams? There's no crappy crappy teams there. There's no crappy teams they're like. You can't play the worst of the worst because you've got the top twenty two teams there, so you're. You've got a really high percentage of your games being against over five hundred teams at the very least. In Fort Worth worth this stuff right now is what is currently. What's going to happen? It's not final right right right this stuff. This stuff can still change even after the Board of Governors Meeting Tomorrow, that you know maybe teams come back and they hear this plan like you know what why you know why. WHY WOULD NEW ORLEANS? Go in there tomorrow and be like. Yeah, we're cool with US right. Why would they do that? Because if this is the scheduled for them? IT WOULD BE SACRAMENTO UTAH Clippers. They would skip the Hawks San Antonio Memphis Sacramento. MEMPHIS. They would skip the Knicks and then face Orlando. And for them, they might go in there tomorrow. Like why aren't the schedules waited to rep? Best represent the remaining strength. The season's schedule is there's no way there's no way, too. Though when you've got the best twenty two I mean these schedule makers are magicians. They can make something work they can make what are they can make. They can make whatever you need to work. Hey, then then what they're gonNA do is they're gonNA say that. And then Nambia has got to say you know what we'd love to have as I on in the playoffs. Anyway, you play the wizards eight times. I mean he's there's nobody. There's nobody else shitty to play Cav. Seriously all these these are pretty good, and everybody's going to be healthy. By the time this comes around. There is a limit to how easy your schedule can possibly be when you're throwing the eight worst teams out of the mix, you know you know what would be fascinating was if the NBA does go at this as planned? and. The first game back is jazz funder. If that's the first game Oh, wow, if that could be the first one and then Pelicans, kings, which was also postponed that night but if that were the case, you would have jazz, Thunder, and then Pelicans kings. You would also have Celtics, bucks, which we're GONNA play. Thursday, March Twelfth Bat night. You Would Have Grizzlies Blazers you'd have and. And then rockets Lakers. That'd be a pretty loaded. I, schedule. Yeah, no I'm just saying like if he do resume the schedule. Those the handful of games among others and will be a and I'll be I'd be into watching that that day. For sure Kev, we have focused on the playoff spots, but the truth is those eight games also give tremendous amount of opportunity for jockeying for seeding. In this thing, and it's not clearly homecourt advantage. is not the not the advantage that you would have any other year, but. It certainly matters greatly if you are. Philly. Would you rather play Indiana? Rather Miami right who could drop down? You got these teams that are bunched up and certainly in the West I think there's only from Denver down to you know. Dallas it's like what two and a half games or something so I mean. A lot of stuff could be moved around seating. Wise even in the course of a game especially if they're all playing each other. Yeah exactly and you mentioned Dallas for example in a bay have games against a mob bond. BUNCH OF POTENTIAL PLAYOFF TEAMS PHOENIX CLIPPERS. Kings, Blazers Phoenix again rockets jazz for them I. Mean there could be a lot of shuffling that happens right now. They're the seven seed, Brennan seven seed right now, but over those next eight games there are only two and a half games back from Utah at the four spot, right? That's not a lot of time to move up three spots, but you know. If you get a hot streak here, going into the postseason you could get better seating, but. But. The thing is though is like how much seating really matter in the West okay. I it matters in terms of what side of the bracket you're on if you're on the the Lakers side of the clippers side, but you're still going to get a tough opponent regardless in the first round, and for them like yes, you'd rather not face the clippers in the first round you'd rather be the sixth seed and faced Denver and that's where things get really really interesting from a seating standpoint but we're Gaza where you are. This is still going to be damned tough in the West. But look, it'll also be tough in the east. Let me tell you I brought up hypothetical of like if Miami played against Philli. Guess who doesn't want that happening. Milwaukee because wherever wins that series is feeding into right. They'd much rather have philly playing against. And I'm saying in Philly moved up to five. They'd much rather have Boston in Philly and whoever wins that then go into playing against Toronto right then having a Miami Miami Philly and having to face you know a team that both those teams theoretically could be very good playoff teams like they're built for that kind of and they're certainly built for playing against Jaanus. Jaanus and being able to throw all manner of players at Jaanus You know that's what they bloated up for, and you've got that size with seventy sixers, and so in that sense, it does matter because you know you. You'd much rather have a four five situation that is not going to feed you. Who could possibly be you know the most dangerous team to you? We don't know I mean we don't know we'll see how the matchups play out but certainly some of those teams are pretty equipped to be able to give them a hard time i. don't know the you know. I think that in the West honestly Kev. I feel like those to La. Teams are just such prohibitive favorites. The idea of either of them getting knocked off seems. Per at extreme long shot to me. It's all silly Chris. I'm not I'm not a fan of these goofy proposals from teams I thought it was a joke to read. I thought it was. I mean danger. Reporting is awesome, but but like come on man. This is like onion quality proposals from the teams you did. They should be given any type of advantage for being. Here on court is here's the one that I'm into only one of them. Finally the goofiest one was them saying they get to choose their hotel where they stay at before any other teams like the you a draft, your hotels or like bring your home court to Orlando and have been stalled before every game i. mean it's just those goofy, but the one that I'm into is the I want to mention. Higher seeded team is awarded the first possession of the second third and fourth quarters, following the traditional jump ball to begin the game. I say out one. Isn't that that one's cool with me if If the lower seeded team gets it in games, three four and six, so the highest team could get it for their original home games, but the lower seeded team would get it for their three games in concert additional seven game series. That one's cool me I. Guess I guess there is doing here. I guess there is like you know the whole wanting to start a game with a jump ball. I would be fine with them, saying they just throw it in under the basket to start the game. They get it all four. They get all four quarters. That's fine by me I. Think and I do think that that is A. A A lot of these games that can be especially in playoff. Games could be decided by possession. So I, do think that's valuable. Yeah, the coach's challenge thing and the bring your home court down i. mean that is outrageous. They'll give in one. You can designate one player, so you're telling me like with this proposal. The Lakers could have Lebron go to seven thousand instead of the sixth stupid. That by but. One is intriguing for what would have been home games for each respective team. That won I'm cool. Only, take the other ones now. The the only thing that I did like about the seven foul thing that I thought would be humorous is if you got to designate that it would be funny to see how many are not used on who you would think they would be used on like. You're the best player because. Lebron does a foul out of games. Kevin, like he just doesn't fell out of games right, so do you give the seven thousand two Dwight Howard, or if you're you, know Houston. Do you not give it to Westbrook and hardened, but give it a p PJ Tucker. So he can you know so? He can rough or pat bath. Get it for the clippers. Get in foul trouble. I mean it's fascinating to think about how that would be used if you did give them a player that could get a seventh foul, but I do I do think that there should be some kind of advantage given that you're having to play this on neutrals with no fans, I. I don't have great answers. I don't. The Best of which we agree on. Give them more possess chance right. The possession was fair, but like I said not for all the game's not for games, one through seven. For Games one two five and seven bestows would have been there for home games, so you give them the the Cleveland, or near near Cleveland of the statistical advantage that teams historically have at their home, arenas and playoffs that to me is fair, and I'd be cool with that, but all the other ones. I mean like Dave like did a great job reporting this 'cause I read. Read those last night and my reaction was like. Are you serious and my second reaction was sort of what we opened up the show way in the sense that like this is so unimportant and just so many more important things right now. I'M GONNA, go back to watching the protests in my home city of Brockton mass right now. Mendota Ben, but Yeah we'll see. What! Walk there's a lot that can change. It is tremendous reporting I will say Kevin I laughed out loud at the. Transport your home court down there. I mean. Who even like? Brings that, up. Who even says like you know, we could just bring our whole court down there. I mean. People. Are Involved. In evidence ship it down there like your own. Pro. Swap out a decal in the middle of the court rite aid swap out a decal in the middle of the court. I found her ridiculous. Because you know our city talk about all the time about player safety. Yeah, and then you're adding more people have to ship and install a new basketball court I mean that's just stupid man, and like by the way today today there's been no talk really about you know the importance of player, safety and testing protocols. We've hit that a bunch of the pass. Mother reported. Reported that store a couple of weeks ago, but a little bit surprise how little that has been a discussion when it comes to specifically about the NBA Today with like the pandemic, still happening right now and for the NBA, that is the most important thing when it comes to having games played safely. There's a lot of time between now and July thirty first and players will test positive. It's just a matter of how many do. And for the NBA, getting those protocols, right is the most important thing for getting these players. These coaches, these executives. Whoever's there? Whatever personality of media's allowed whoever it is? That is the number one thing to make sure ashore safety for the players, and their families and everybody else connected with what's happening at Disneyworld, July, and August September, however long the Games happen so I've been a little bit surprised about the lack of conversation around that, but then again for the NBA. NBA that is not finalized either. They're still figuring out before July you know whenever players go to Disneyworld mid July the best way to do that so there's there's still time to go for those plans to be finalized I. Guess I'm just a little personally surprised at the lack of conversation about it today. Yeah, also I. Mean I couldn't but think about that. Regarding how long somebody's going to be there. Let's say let's say you think. The Lakers are the favourite. That's a long time to. That is a longtime. To disneyworld I kinda. With like with a pandemic happening with so many more important things happening in the world right now. Didn't you I figured that they would be that. This would happen. It would be condensed more and happen. Quicker than. The way. It's GonNa. End Up playing out the amount of cheer time that is a that is a long time to have a Li a you know at least two teams. At least two of them are going to be down there for three months Sean. And that that's where like I go back to what I said at the beginning of the show, but like I hope basketball can be you know something that inspires positive change around the world, but part of me is like you're telling me if you know if let let's say, let's just say the Celtics. Lakers final Jaylen Brown, who has been one of the leaders and speaking about racial inequality and police brutality, and all these issues that matter right now and then you. You Have Lebron James always used his platform and many different ways across the years. You're telling me like for Jaylen Brown and Lebron James, and all the other players on those teams that WanNa make a difference, the best place for them to be would be at Disneyworld. I'm not so sure that's necessarily the case. and I'm sure they don't necessarily think so either. so in some ways I hope basketball can be a great overall thing and other ways unlike Jesus. To Be Stuck Disneyworld for three months when an all likelihood. A lot of the stuff isn't gonNA. Go away anytime soon with the protests, and with the pandemic yet, but I I. You know in one in one way, though the amount the amount of people that are going to be watching this and the amount of attention that they will have from literally all over the World Kevin when they get in front of microphones at podiums and they have the opportunity. Day, it's one thing if you. If you you and I are caught in the bubble right You know where we're. We see everything that these guys are doing, but if you don't follow my social media, you're not on social media. All the time does does some Guy you know in? Some guy in Kansas City. Know how active Jaylen Brown's been, and how passionate he's been if he's not if he just doesn't, he's not a big. You know what I'm saying if he's if he's not sure that I'm not. I'm not sure that is going to get that anyway. Though, because, now see on the news. I I. Know what I'm saying like. You're right that. He higher percent. Chance of that person gets that message if O'Brien James has the platform that basalt provide, but also you could say that some of these mainstream news stations are showing videos of looters rather than some of the peaceful protests that they're spending majority of their time talking about some of the negative, that has happened rather than some of the positive. They're spending par most not all of them, but a lot of the time they're spending in putting attention on the reaction. Rather than what people reacting the first place and I do wonder though. That that platform people have we're going to hear it, you know people on twitter are going to hear it. People that want to hear it are going to hear it, but is someone that you know watching certain news stations. You know that wouldn't put that side out there. Put that out there. Just because Bass goals being played. I'm not so sure. I hope that would happen and I hope that message would be received, but like if if players start kneeling before the national anthem. Let's just say that happens. Everybody in the League in solidarity is doing what Colin Kaepernick did years ago. That is not going to be portrayed as you know, they're doing this to raise awareness against blues, brutality of racial inequality, and all these other issues that people are talking about protesting about right now for some of these new station. That's GonNa be it's GonNa? Be Portrayed as look at these disrespectful NBA players in how disrespecting the flag, we even at drew brees, today drew brees today said like he will never support anybody that neal's during the national anthem. Even though yesterday he posted the the Black Square on Instagram in support of a blackout Tuesday. that. That would happen. You know, and and for that guy that you're talking about who otherwise wouldn't have seen it, and that's where I still have some concerns in hesitations about. Will the message be received? I don't know all I know. Is the optimist in me? Says that players overall, there's GonNa be a large amount of people who don't care or don't notice or disagree with it, but there's GonNa be a lot of people and I hope that is going to be a lot of people that otherwise wouldn't have received the message. especially with the youth will receive that message, and that's where like I, overall site on the optimistic side with basketball returning, but there is part of me. That's like. I don't know if even with that. The best use of players time on a personal level would be like live streaming on instagram. Live from Disneyworld our speaking at the podium. Rather than being out there. With people actually doing hands on work, especially with three months away starting in mid-july until sometime in October I, don't I mean I I don't know we don't know what's going to happen moving forward. We don't know what this is going to look like two weeks from now. We don't know what it's going to look like two days from now. We just don't know with the pandemic or the protests. We have no idea but. There's just spend something on my mind when it comes to basketball returning feeling less important than ever, but also more potentially more important than ever to. Think so too Kev. We are going to see what the Board of Governors does with all this tomorrow. They're going to vote on this and so we'd discuss with. What at least has been reported as somewhat specifics, but we don't know yet, and obviously you and I will reconvene after the vote is made, and we have some finality to how this is all going to look and how this is all going to play out. Assuming that. These NBA season is going to get played and it will get played starting at the end of July, which is a I mean. It's a longtime away math. It's still. It's still a long time away. outdoorsman, but look look. Here's what we know. The world's in a different place every. Forty eight to seventy two hours, it seems I swear twenty twenty can go to hell. Just the worst. I. Hope that I hope that you know. You're always. You're always optimistic about things, is I? Am I and I'm hoping better? Days are ahead. To say the least I. Don't know I mean you? You say I'm an optimist, but I I've always fancied myself. Marie List's. You know it's impossible to know where things will go but but I can only hope like despite all the bad. That has happened in twenty twenty. I still see images of you know hundreds and thousands of people across the country and across the world. For that matter, you're seeing protests in other countries to people standing up for George Floyd people protesting against police brutality protesting against racial inequality. Around the world and I can only hope that. Entering mentioned bad twenty twenty. It's been I can only hope like by twenty twenty one that the world overall can be a better place. I I don't know if it will be. But I can only hope that that a lot of people are going to connect. Through all everything that's happening. To us as a world with the pandemic with the protests that can only help that that. Things become better and we just don't know though but we don't know, but it's inspiring to see the amount of people out there who are uniting over this and I are speaking out about it and then and are. Truly feeling empowered on an individual level and a collective level. That their voices matter because they do. They do matter, and you know we're seeing that change. On, local levels as well with somebody elections that happened yesterday. With the charges against the COPS in Minneapolis. That went down today against the three other cops. There's your voices. Matter so I I can't help but feel a bit inspire that some people are failing that sense of empowerment from everything happening so at the two thousand twenty six like you said for many many reasons But I I can only hope that some good comes out of it. You May to We'll talk again on Friday, we'll. Hopefully we'll have some specifics that we can let everybody know about, but we agreed almost entirely today again, yeah! That's to. The world's changing. You and me if you and me or fired it up, and then just agreeing on these podcasts, right? To the match. that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to another episode of the Ringer NBA show and we will talk to you on Friday.

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Ep 6: NBA RE-DRAFT 2013

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

51:10 min | 5 months ago

Ep 6: NBA RE-DRAFT 2013

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast. Network enjoy chat. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA big board on the locked on podcast network. I'm your host Chad Ford and my guest. Today is John Hollinger senior writer for the athletic and Co host of Hollander Dunkin on the lockdown network. John and I have been redrafting. Famous drafts the last couple of weeks. We've done two thousand fourteen and two thousand sixteen this year. We're going back to the two thousand thirteen. Nba Draft. Were going to do this. In the form of a mock draft each of us will rotate making picks based on hindsight what should have happened on draft night. And it's interesting to pick two thousand thirteen because at the time of the draft and really all that year everyone was talking about. How terrible a draft this was. There was no consensus number one pick. I believe at the time that the Cleveland Cavaliers who had the number one pick in the draft were considering up to six six players in the draft That that year guys that they worked out with Guys that they worked out and were deeply considering. Here's how the draft went on draft night the cavs selected first. They took Anthony Bennett out of. Unlv complete shock will always remember. Bill Simmons Reaction on TV to this at the time no one knew this was coming it was a it was a very very big surprise. We knew he was in the mix but he was very much a dark horse to be the number one. Pick in the draft. The second pick in the draft went to the Orlando Magic They took Victor Oladipo. The third pick went to the Washington Wizards. They took Otto Porter. The Charlotte Hornets had the fourth pick draft. And they took cody Zeller. Out OF INDIANA. The fifth pick went to the Phoenix Suns. Who TOOK ALEX LEN out of Maryland? The six pick went to the New Orleans Hornets. Who TOOK NERLENS NOEL? Out of Kentucky. The king selected seventh and took Ben mclemore of Kansas. The Pistons selected eighth contagious caldwell-pope out of Georgia. Minnesota TRADED THEIR PICK to the Utah Jazz. Who traded up to pick number nine select. Trey Burke out of Michigan. The typic- went to the Portland. Trailblazers took CJ mccollum the eleventh. Pick with the Philadelphia Seventy sixers. This guy actually ended up being rookie of the year. That year Michael Carter Williams twelve pick went to the Oklahoma City. Thunder Stephen Adams to pit the thirteenth pick traded to the Boston Celtics Kelly Olympic out of Gonzaga and fourteen. Pick in the draft. This is where Minnesota selected in that trade with Utah Shabazz Muhammad out of Ucla Guy. That started the season ranked as one of the one or two top players prospects in in the draft. This was a wild draft. John Yeah especially I mean this is. This is my first year in the League and so this is my first draft on the team side and that I pick I don't they I. Seven years of the Grizzlies was ever more shocked than that. I won the analysis which I think I was trying to put the redrafted. Rather might have been actually T- true. This was not a very good draft. It wasn't a very deep draft. There was a lot of concerns about really all the players in the draft. Early on Nerlens. Noel was a favorite to be the number one pick in the draft but he had a catastrophic injury just very early into his college career. Which meant that? You know teams were very very nervous about him and whether he was going to be able to play. He ended up not plane for his his rookie year. There was guys like Shabazz Muhammad. Who from a high school basketball standpoint was an elite blue chip prospect but it became clear kind of early on in his career. Ucla that maybe a lot of those things that allowed him to be such a great prospect in highschool weren't going to translate into the NBA teams. Were all over the place about who should be the number one pick in the draft and and as it turns out the best player in the draft was a guy that was playing second division third division basketball in in Greece who wasn't really even on an NBA radar screen until January. John. You have the first pick in the draft. I don't think there's going to be any surprise of who it's going to be who you select number one. Well obviously it's Jaanus and I mean this is a great pick by Milwaukee at number fifteen the thing with the honest in his draft year so I actually saw him play for. Greece's U eighteen team that year shortly before the draft. You could tell he had a feel for the game. He wasn't just a random guy with long arms that even though he didn't have experienced he did kind of know how to play so that was interesting. Skill level wasn't super high. The other thing I mean he was four too. Short of any is now I don. I don't say that I mean that's the one thing that nobody could have predicted. Just hit not just that he was gonNA fill out physically which I think people could imagine that he was gonna keep growing so much and I think that's obviously been a huge factor in hin becoming the level of player that he's become I think. Even if he had stayed six seven he would have been one of the best picks in the draft problem But I think that was the the ice cream Sundae or however you want to put it. It was really interesting trying to scout him and for NBA teams to scouting because again the competition level. That he was playing against was poor. He clearly had a physical advantage over the players that he was playing against. He really wasn't a shooter. Couldn't shoot the basketball. He had really amazing. Feel for the game ball handling abilities things like that but again you know this two thousand thirteen not every team comfortable saying hey. We're going to bring this kid over and make him a point guard and allow him just initiate the offense. You know what position he played. There was just so many question marks about Yoenis. I don't think I talked to an NBA team or Scout. They didn't like him. I think everybody liked him. I thought everybody saw the potential there but I also don't think I talked to an NBA Scout. That wasn't concerned or really that this was a wild card draft pick could be super high ceiling could be great also could be a bust and whoever was taking him was was rolling. The dice was take with the grizzlies as well that that was definitely the take. And I think in retrospect you have to ask well. What did you have to lose in this draft? How much of a risk of retaken balance go? No I'M GONNA miss out on the next Trey Burke. I Take Janas here that that that that is a great point and one of the really interesting things is is post draft obviously talking to all these teams in and scouts. They almost all have a story of how they almost selected right. They almost selected ious but then at the last second it was owner. It's always the owners of why or you know our team just really wasn't utilizing the D. League. I'm going to now quote my famous tweet. That has been tweeted back to me thousands of times and this is what. I tweeted on draft night off. The TAKUBO is one to two years away from plane minutes on an NBA team. That's a very expensive D. League player. Clearly I was I was I was wrong about it. Am I defense. That tweet was verbatim. What the Bucks told me after? They drafted him. He was one to two years away of playing on an NBA team and the original plan of the bucks was that he was going to go down to the D. League before other things happened over the summer. They turned out to really shift that team over the summer. They lost some free agents. And what have you and they decided. Okay we're just GONNA now we're going to be in more of a rebuilding mode and we're going to expedite this. Bhai bringing Janas in and play anymore. I think it's fair to say they'll maybe they'll come back and say this isn't true. They were shocked as anybody at how good he was a right away and so while my tweet was clearly wrong as an MBA reporter. I really was also passing along even the view at the time of the team. That drafted him that he's one to two years away from plane minutes on an NBA team. Yeah and give Milwaukee Credit because I think a lot of teams saw him as a stash so his guy that they were draft and keep overseas for a year or two and then bring over. Let them play in a high level of European League first before he comes to the NBA. From the you know from playing against dudes like you and me in the Greek second or third division in so agreed to take was wrong but I challenge to find anybody that was in the League at the time that was saying no Jaanus is GonNa come in and play right away and by year. Two know that you're going to have a superstar in the league. If those people were out there I didn't meet them or talk to them ahead of time. He he surprised everybody in any part of it that I think the bucks learned and some of the really cool anecdotes about onto co CO author. Toco which just what a great human being. He was and how much they loved him. But also how much of a like a kid he was David Moore? Way was the assistant general manager to the bucks at the time and Yoenis used to come to his house to play video games with his teenage sons. That's that's what he wanted to do in his off time and how he was how quickly he was going to adapt because there was major. There's a major leap from second league in in Greece to come to the United States and playing on NBA team which some international players really struggle with. Everything went right for Jaanus on that on that end and much of it is the credit jaanus and much of its decrepit. The the box and the way that they handled him in and developed him. I think the talent was so clearly there that he would have been okay wherever but he did end up. Interestingly landing in a good spot for him absolutely. It's it's worked out unbelievably well. Obviously he is the most unique unique player that I've seen or scouted in all my years with the NBA. Truly it's hard to imagine that there will ever be another player like him or another story. Lincoln. The interesting thing for the cavs is you know what could cause they selected. Anthony Bennett number. One Who I imagine is not going to be in our top fourteen. Even though our top fourteen gets really weak. Really fast it's the second pick in the draft. It's the Orlando Magic Rudy. Gobert out of France when you have to do clearly. An elite elite defender of not the best defender in the NBA. Much better offensively than thought he would be. He's a beast and this is a really interesting. He slid at twenty seven on draft night so our top. Two picks went fifteenth twenty seventh. There was a time when Rudy was ranked as a top-five prospect coming into distract the initial. Take at the start of the draft scouting season about who he could be and the talent level a disappointing season and France where he didn't develop quite the way that people thought then he comes to the NBA combine and struggles in combine then. He starts to struggle in workouts and his draft stock. Just just plummets in the last few months before the draft where he slides all the way to twenty seven but interestingly he has an incredible workout for the Utah Jazz. They're blown away with his. Competitiveness has toughness all the things that people were questioning about rudy and they roll the dice at twenty seven and ended up with a franchise center one of the great draft day trades in history. Two million dollars cash to move up from forty six to twenty seven select Rudy Gobert and that was the Denver Nuggets. Who sold that? Who SOLD THAT PICK? Who have been kicking themselves ever since and just a play or two that has continued to develop as a basketball player. So my from this draught we. We only had a second round picks. We couldn't get him into work out for us but we did at the draft and we really liked him Forty forty You know some guys. Who are that tall. They play because they're tall. And we never got that impression with with Rudy. We always thought he loved the game and thought that was you know but that was important. Like burs prospects that that he fell category and then. I lost my train on my other story here. I had another. I had another go bare story here in a lost. We're we're doing a lot of filler at the start of this one because we don't have a lot to say about many other players draft dragging this went out. You're you're absolutely right What I mean I know so you see him at the combine. He did struggle and the thing was his running. Motion was really awkward. Like you would kick knees really high on ran. People were killing him. Some Sun how. Utah fixed that. And when they did that he became much. More fluid end to end is a mover and I think that just opened up everything else about his game the scouts and GM's that were just outright mocking rudy. And whether he actually knew how to run and making making comments like a baby horse when it comes out of the womb and how it's You know how it's Lisa balanced metaphor. That was exactly what I thought. Yeah I'm not sure that there was anybody that did more to like. Destroy their draft stock than Rudy did at the at the at the combine. It wasn't his fault it just and there was a lot of factors to he just got out. The plane for France really truly wasn't prepared for what he was stepping into with me. There's so many factors that went into this and again. This is a a cautionary tale about your scouting during the season. And then letting sort of all the stuff that happens. Postseason in fact you're scouting view of a player and it's so hard because that's the last thing you saw and so it shouldn't even if you tell yourself it shouldn't have the same weight as the Games during the season. It's so hard when that's the last thing and and that's really the danger of these things like the workout in the combine and even the interview even though you gather more information you have to wait a new formation properly and there's too many times we're becomes too much of a weight on that and it and it distorts. You're bored too much okay. It's the third pick in the draft. John you're drafting Washington Wizards on the board. Yeah I mean. I don't porter was a defensible. Pick here but I actually now that now that the first two picks have gone the way they've gone there were three all stars from this draft to gone. The third one is Victor Oladipo. So He'd be my pick and why depot over another player that I think you could have selected here which is CJ mccollum. Yeah I just think the the high end on depot so much higher for him for him to make multiple all star teams. Be The best player on a good team Be really more of a two way player than than mccollum has been I just think there's there's a higher ceiling and that I mean the draft is really about ceiling at the end of the day. And we'll see obviously with this injury. depot can get back to that. Claire but I just think especially like his eighteen nineteen seasons like we're better than anything mccombs ever GonNa give you. He's on his third. Nba team. What happened in Orlando and then in Oklahoma City? I mean I can understand training for Paul George and I. I think that that makes a lot of sense What would happen in Orlando was really interesting? That Baca trade right. They traded Ola Depot and the twelfth pick to get which was a bonus. Yeah Yeah and I think that was driven by short-term pressures there to to get into the postseason and they thought they thought could shore up a particular weakness they had and get there and obviously that didn't end up working out that way. I think some of it too was a you know throwing Ola depot like the magic did into the Point Guard position. The learning curve the growing pains that were there. Maybe a little lack of patience last. Yeah Yeah I think so and and some frustration when you project what do you project onto pick that high that he's going to be your saver savior you know after the Dwight mayor and everything they went through and then when he's just good but not a savior. I think the becomes a magnet for criticism. Even though it's unfair right and you're out you're out there searching for that savior so he becomes a chip and trying to find it as opposed to continuing to develop him okay. It's the fourth pick in the draft. That's the Hornets. They took cody. Zeller think that was a mistake. There was lots of mistakes in this draft. Cj mccollum to me is in my mind the fourth picking in this draft if not the third pick and You know a guy at a Li. Hi Put up some Hugh talk about a tournament Don Darlene and NCW tournament Darlene. We're really having an incredible game against Duke. Really really helped his draft stock and prove that he could put up those incredible scoring numbers a against a a high level team. Also one of the more entertaining players I to interview and talked with undrafted. He really wanted to study journalism. And get into the media business and was one of those guys that nailed every interview that he could possibly go into. It was hard to not fall in love with. Cj mccollum yeah definitely the best podcasters available in this draft. But more than that right. I mean he's a. He's a terrific basketball player in score. Yeah yeah you know he can? He can get his own shot. He could shoot off the catch defensively. He's been able to basically hold his own at the two even though he's a little undersized Actually has a little bit of for for a small guy walks a lot of shots. Oddly enough now like a freak athlete but just so under control of polished you know has all the mid range and the different shots really makes them a very effective score really came of age in that two thousand fifteen first round against us. I don't know if you remember Erin follows injured and they kind of had to press macaulay. Disservice yen played a ton that year. A mostly benched Guy Forum and we're we won that series in five games. Who was like? Who is this guy is killing us? Here is eighteen points a game against us that series and we obviously had an elite elite defense and he gave us a lot of problems and really gave the grizzlies problems every year since then all right. C. J. mccollum four John. You're on the clock. Phoenix Suns Fifth. Pick in the draft. They selected Alex. Len I'm assuming that's not going to be your choice. That will not be my choice. I will take a center but not this center instead. I think there's much better center available for them. Who's become a very popular teammate? And a very solid rugged to weigh center US Stephen Adams out of Pittsburgh who had a lot of questions about him after his. You're Pitt if you remember Chad. He was a prospect that as a prep. There was a lot of a lot of excitement about obviously a New Zealand native by had played over in the United States and then he went to pit for a year and he wasn't the dominant player that I think people thought he was going to be a pit which is why he slipped a little bit in the draft but absolutely as the fifth or sixth picnic draft. This should have been the choice and I mean his career since I need. You spend crazy durable. He's physical tough. Rebounds can score around the basket but just as has enough like touch and feel to do some other stuff too and can play out on the elbows a little bit like he's just a good center. Okay we'll be back with pick six through ten on the next segment with John. Hajer you're listening to Ted Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network with the free agency period. Done no live sports on TV. There's an increasing excitement around this year's NFL draft the NFL draft is all about new beginnings and our sponsors at manscaping are here to give your balls a new beginning. That's right I'm talking about your number. One Pick manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family. Jewels manscaping is the only men's brand dedicated to below the waist grooming in hygiene. There's nothing better than finding a diamond in the rough in the fifth round the manscaping perfect package three point. Oh we'll help you find that in yourself when you trim the hedges. The trees stand taller. 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Don't be a rookie. Always used the right tools for the job. Get Twenty percents off with the Promo Code locked on at MANSCAPING DOT COM. Hi this is. David Locke the CEO of the locked on podcast network. I'd like to take a moment to talk to our local business owners. That are tuned into this. Podcast at the lockdown podcast network. We want to see if we can do something to help you out in these difficult times. Here's what we'd like to do. We are going to drop all of our advertising rates on our local podcasts for local business owners half price and in addition we're GONNA take ten percent of all of that revenue and donate it to the charity. Frontline foods frontline foods takes money and Senate to local restaurants who are feeding frontline workers right now. Those are the hospital workers so again. Local businesses were offering half price advertising on our local. Podcast will donate ten percent of that revenue to frontline foods. If you are interested in this will help you out. Please text advertising two three three seven seven seven text advertising the three three seven seven seven or go to locked on podcast dot com slash advertising. Stay safe stay socially distance and thank you. Very much for tuning into the lockdown podcast network. And we're back redrafting the two thousand thirteen NBA draft. I'm John Hollinger. We've just selected the top five picks in the draft. I'm on the board. It's the six pick. It's the seventy sixers. It's the start of the process. I was just GonNa say that this was a momentous trade actually because it was the first trait of the process. They traded jrue holiday for two firsts including this one six pick where they took nerlens Noel and there was probably some high fives in Philadelphia when Nerlens Noel slides to six. He was maybe not the consensus but the likely number one pick in the draft before he gets injured at Kentucky was considered an elite prospect at the time obviously medical concerns and there was a ton of them at the time and confusing reports from doctors about how well he was healing from his ACL surgery and he'd lost a lot of weight. I mean there were so many little things that were going on. There was concerns about him but it six. This seemed like a perfectly defensible. Pick and actually sort of stroke of luck for a team that was going to go into tanking mode anyway. That didn't necessarily need to play right away. There was a lot of hope there. And it just didn't really pan out for a lot of reasons and and some of that you're just being work ethic and you know his ability to work with coaches and other teammates at. He didn't really work out. I'm going to take a guy that I really loved in the draft. He went number three to the wizards Otto Porter. I loved him out of Georgetown. And not just. Because I'm a Georgetown alum. I loved all the different things that he did on the court that made him such a versatile player. He wasn't a sexy prospect by any stretch of the imagination but he was a guy that on draft night I was seriously thinking might should be the number one pick in the draft at just because I thought in a in a draft where there was so many question marks. It seemed to me that you're not drafting number. One in this particular draft to hit a home run because I I don't know that a home run existed at the time. We didn't know that was going to be a run and it seemed like Otto Porter was going to have a very very solid career. And at least somebody that you can build around and have a lot of versatility. He was really solid in Washington. And he's been nearly solid for the bowls. You know one thing that he did that that I didn't expect as he turned into a forty percent. Three point shooter absolutely. He had that good year his sophomore year from three. But I think a lot of people questioned whether that was fool's gold and weather over a larger sample shots. He'd be able to keep that up and he has and he's been a really good player at a difficult position to fill small forward and the only thing that prevented me from having him higher on my board was that I just don't know with the injuries and stuff what the rest of his career is. GonNa look like from here like I think these next five years of CJ mccollum. Stephen Adams are GONNA turn out a lot better than the next five from Otto Porter. Because I think there's just too many health questions right there and it's really interesting wise. I think he had a strong case to be Fourth Sacramento Kings. They take Kansas Sky. I actually cheer them on. They took back l'amour even though even as a Kansas homer. I knew this was going to be a problem. It yeah lots of stories out of Kansas about bid macklemore and what kind of player he wants to coach. So who do you got going seven? I'm assuming stop in macklemore. We they're not gonNA wear ten million dollars once you did. Yeah I'm sure you sign that check. That at didn't go great so we're going to do something else we're going to go. The shooting guard late late. Bloomer was really good this year Dallas though had some other pretty good season it landed in New York. And I think he's got a few more ahead of them still Tim Hardaway Junior By the way that crashing sound you heard was this draft. Going off the rails. It's really it's really off the rails after six all of it all of it is. What are we arguing over right now? Really Tim Hardaway. Junior twenty fourth in the draft clearly outplayed his position in the draft. Yeah I think I think he surprised. At least he surprised me with. Just how potent offense a player could be at the NBA level? I mean he was a good player at Michigan but he wasn't. He wasn't necessarily like a superstar in the big ten. And you what he wasn't like he was a wanted done either. Why does he slide? I just think the perception of him that he was he was an okay. Shooter came out as a junior and was like okay athlete but not a Free Clegg there. There was just nothing to really glomming onto is like a sexy thing of like. That's why he's guy just so many blah players that were drafted ahead of him. That's that's the question in a normal draft him. Being a twenty four makes a Lotta Sense. He was a little bit of a head. Scratcher in this daycare said goes nineteen and Tony Snell goes twenty and yeah becomes a little more of a head scratcher. Shane Larkin. I mean we can go bay. Yeah we could go on and on. Okay it's the Pistons Eighth Pick in the draft. I don't really know there isn't there isn't a lot to choose here. I'M GONNA go with Dennis. Schroder yeah I think that's a good pick. I mean Casey pay was indefensible. Pick here by the Pistons. Won One of the few that writing was yeah. It wasn't it wasn't a bad picket at eight. But Schroeder at at least as a six man who can provide a lot of scoring off. The bench has carved a a really nice career for himself at the NBA level. I don't think he's the starting point guard on a good basketball team but I definitely think that he can provide a lot of bang for the buck off the bench. Yeah COUPLE PRETTY. High Level Seasons for good hawks teams and then really good note city. This year might even end up in the sixth man award. He went and he was a guy who really blew up at the hoop summit offer really just one week of practices in one game right and so it goes both ways right and he moves up to seventeenth in the draft and now he might be the six man of the year and that's same hoops summit. Libya John Charles. Did the same thing with then was never heard from again. Exactly okay the jazz trade up with the wolves to get the ninth pick in the draft. They're also looking for a point guard for the future they select Trey Burke. Yeah not the point guard of the future. I'm not going to take a point guard here. I'm going to take a just a nice solid three and d role player. I think he's shooting. He's been a little disappointing as a Pro. Thirty five percent career but good dog and defender Been really durable just a good solid. Claire Contagious caldwell-pope. Has He been disappointing? From what I thought he might be able to be after watching him at Georgia. Yeah and I think part of it was the hope that he would turn out to be a better shooter. Then he's ban he's been solid she and thirty five percent from three in his career. By you know it's it's hard to get excited about. Kentavious caldwell-pope but but he's actually had a pretty solid NBA career exactly at his age. He probably has several years left at this at this level still and I just think there's some bigs in this draft who actually had pretty good careers to and we'll get to them in a minute but I think the Wayne players more valuable than the bag in general so. That's my bias here. That's why Casey. I'm not really sure who to select next tent. It's the blazers again. Things start to drop off a little bit for me but I'm GonNa go with Mason Plumlee. I think that's a great pick. He went twenty two. The Brooklyn Nets. It's been a solid basketball player. Really saw yeah. He was an eye test guy in that draft because his stats weren't that great and he was a he was a four year player at Duke But I think people who watched it in person and really saw what he can do athletically around the basket figured that what he did with translate and they were proven correct. Three brothers two of them turn out to be MBA players. Okay that's picks one through ten. We'll be back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment but John Hollinger. You're listening to Chad. Ford's in big board on the lockdown podcast network and we're back picks eleven thousand fourteen to two thousand thirteen. Nba draft under. John Hollinger. Seventy sixers have another pick and this is interesting because they drafted Michael Carter Williams who turns out to be the rookie of the year. Just to show you a little bit. How wild this draft was the eleventh pick in the draft turned out to be the rookie of the year. Michael Carter Williams and then it kind of all went downhill from there for him. And I'm not sure. Have we ever had rookie of the year that flat line so quickly? I can't think of one. I'm Scott I'm scratching my head here. Yeah it's really tyreek Evans. That didn't really flat line the same way that Michael Carter Williams said yeah I mean in his. I mean. We've had guys with injuries. But his wasn't really injury related. It was performance right. And so you know. It's hard to criticize the sixers and say look. You drafted the rookie of the year at eleven bite. I parlayed him into a future. I when they realized that things might not be going the way they hope when Jason Kidd fell in love with Michael Carter Williams who happen to be represented by excel management. What a coincidence well in really felt that he was going to turn his career around. This is this is why. Sometimes you don't want to give your coach too big of a voice in personnel decisions. Because then he quickly fell out of love with Michael Carter Williams and then pointed the finger back at the front office and said why in the hell did you trade for the sky and the answer is because you wanted him. I'M GONNA go at this point for the seventy sixers with Maryland's Noel. Wow Okay I don't know if I hold out. Hope still or that when he plays in limited minutes from an advanced statistics standpoint. He he shows pretty well but as I just look at the players that are left in a better available to me and maybe still some potential there For Noel to continue to to adapter grow as a player. I just don't really see a lot of players that that set beneath him that I can really get excited about. Yeah that's that's fair. I think there's there are a couple of other centers who have had better careers to this point but I think it's fair to say that you bet on Noelle's next five years being better than some of these other guys next five years because a couple of these guys get near the end of the line. Already We'll talk about them in a minute but Whereas no well I think like this year in Oklahoma City was definitely like a high level backup and and I think he has at least that going forward for the next few years we can be at high level. Backup on a good team. Exactly exactly okay. The Oklahoma City Thunder at twelve. They're not going to get Stephen Adams. Because getting Stephen and much much higher can I interest you in cody Zeller then okay. Salaries up sell me. Some cody's eller like he's he's had nice seven year career. He's he's really physical. Really screens has become a little bit of a three point shooter. Not just around the basket guy. Like he's good. He's got a lot of trouble with injuries and staying on the court which I don't think could have been anticipated necessarily but he's been a good good player like at worst the third big on good team and You know at this point. I think that's better than what you're GonNa get from anyone else here. Little Cody Zeller Story. I go to watch him work out in. La and like a lot of these bigs especially their agents. Say The problem is they're college coach. Played them the wrong way. Cody's eight cody. Can face the basket. Cody can shoot. Cody was a three point shooter. But Tom Cream just wouldn't let him do any of that. Let's put him through a very simulated workout. Were runs around and and hits a lot of jump shots and you know I'm the reporter writing about all this and talking about the you know. This is upside if he can face the basket and shoot the basketball. And I get a call from Tom. Green College Coaches. If there's many things that rub college coaches the wrong way. But they hate this with the when the agents go and say look to college. Coach played them. The wrong way played in the wrong position hurt their NBA draft stock Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Especially when Cody Zeller was going to end up being the number four pick in the draft but he also told me look cody. Zeller is not going to be an elite. Nba SHOOTER NBA. Three point shooter. I was playing him the right way to Tom. Kriens credit cody. Zeller is a twenty four percent twenty five percent three point shooter in the NBA. Yeah Yeah Yeah he's. He's started launching them last year. And this year and last year shot twenty-seven percent in this year twenty four percent. An agent job is to sell his player and often. It's selling the player by saying you didn't get to see what this player could do if he'd been in in the right system or with the right coach or whatever that that that's part of the narrative every year and and Poor Tom Green. I think kind of came away from this vindicated. Yeah I think you're right okay the Celtics and by the way all these teams passed on. Janos onto a right. You know so like okay. You took nerlens Noel over. Audit Akimbo. Took Alex Len Cody Zeller? Od Otto Porter. Victor Oladipo get all of that and then michelmore viewers. Yeah I mean you know you get some of that. Just the high profile level of them. The mavs scouts and front office really wanted to select Janta Combo here. Mark Cuban has backed this up that they that they wanted to Cuban. Looks at this guy this player that's going to be a stash player and instead trades the pick trades down to eighteen and get. Shane Larkin instead at eighteen. And you know every team you hear stories about all as the front office. We really wanted to do this in our owner. A this is actually a case where I think that that was probably true. And that the Janas Would have gone thirteen Interestingly they trade the pick Boston moves up. And Danny Aines CA- really loves. You ought to Combo. I think they were one of the higher teams on him as far as a team. That really liked him and said instead they select Kelly Atlantic this. I'm just letting it sink under the flooding sink in for a minute. Yeah Yeah and and this is where I think to your point John. At what point. What's the risk reward right you know? Where is the? Where's the risk reward line for Yata Zonta Toco? I feel like if there was a place in the draft that you could clearly draw. That line was right here. Yeah I mean just in terms of where. The perception was that the players at the time. Yeah Stephen Adams is off the board Michael Carter. Williams is off the other players. That had really a lot of buzz off the board right now. There is a lot of skepticism. About what kind of player Kelly Olympic was going to be at the next level of the NBA? Yeah who does Boston take? Because this is off the board. Now Kelly Olympic solid. He turned out to be solid. He turned out to be kind of exactly what you thought he'd be stretches. The floor shoots thirty eight percent from three has had a nice career so they they got their guy. Yeah Yeah I mean. Sort of in a way In this draft. Maybe got the right guy. I don't know if you had Kelly Olympic next but I had him in the in the in the he'd look players. Who could plausibly been next? Yes okay I thought you know they're so to me for the last taking the wolves you've got the wolves all right all right well So there's one other big that you could argue for here with the wolves ended up getting later. Who's Gorky Dang who if you ignore nor the ridiculous extensively side has actually had a good career There was an undrafted player in this in this draft. Who was kind of interesting Seth Curry? But My pickier is actually Michael Carter Williams and say that for two reasons one. He actually did play two. Pretty high level release career Was the rookie of the year. Was able to get a first round pick in a trade later which I think very few these guys could ever say. The other thing is that he's a little bit of a renaissance here like I'm it was noticed but like he was pretty good. Orlando this year. He didn't play a ton but he himself. A nice year is completely different position players. Play off the ball more. I think there's still some hope for him to have like a little renaissance. Here there is. And he's just a really interesting player to look like his rookie season. Averages Sixteen points a game than to fourteen than fourteen again? The Levin then to six than two four two four to five and now up to seven points a game. I think that renaissance there and you know the challenge with him was that he never really learned how to shoot the basketball shooting and then I think there were some real confidence issues. That went with that that when when it started to when it started to snowball tougher to pull out of that all right. Let's talk for a minute about players that we didn't select starting with the number one. Pick in the draft Anthony Bennett. Not An injury issue. What happened with Anthony Bennett? I think two things happened one. I mean I'm over simplifying here. He wasn't that good he never got any better right He. He had some athletic pop to him. Like he can do some crazy dunks and even a games But it just was never really a good shooter or good at putting it on the floor so like what. What was their terms of a skill level for him to generate place for himself of was never a guy who was in great shape which You know even the people who saw him at San Diego State or song practice would say you know kind of get winded easily. You'd get heavy now sometimes. That actually is something that teams have put too much emphasis on. And it's hurt them and we've talked about that with some other players but in this case it was. Kinda dead on. So that was a factor to how did he rise to the top though for the cavs in fairness to the cavs? There was not a clear. No brainer number. One pick in the draft and and most teams had Anthony Bennett in their top. Six seven eight prospects. So it wasn't like they selected. I T A guy that everybody else had ranked in the second round or at the end of the first round I mean people had him ranked in that space. Was this a case where you feel the pressure at number one to hit a home run and so even though they had players like Ola depot and Otto Porter and Cody Zeller and players like that that were on the board that you feel this need that may be because of some of the unique attributes that he had that he could be a Larry Johnson type player in the NBA. And so you're you're trying to hit that home run and then you just end up with incompletely yeah and I think we always talk about upside in the draft but the the flip side of the coin is that you have to be. You know. It's easy for us to say. In retrospect Oh you should've taken the upside of Jaanus but he falls on his face and you know you have to. You have to live with that too so you you have to live with that downside. Sometime looking the act. This was a really weak one and done class and I think that the that's one of the things that stands out to me that only three freshmen were taken in the first eleven picks which is almost unthinkable now in two thousand twenty that that would happen in an NBA direct. Yeah that that that is actually really fascinating and I do think that when you look at the players that the consensus in the NBA hat around who might be in the mix for the number one pick. Noel was really the only other prospect that you could see a high ceiling with but the cavs very worried about his medicals and and injuries and and one of the reasons that they finally moved on on from him. And so I do think this is the pressure. Sometimes of drafting. The number one pick is that it has to be flashy and no-one could get their their arms around just getting a player that's going to be like good and maybe just an all star or you know really strong starter on a team and so you start to project any reach. We talked a little bit about. Co Cody Zeller. Alex Len really made a name for himself by outplaying at Plano Noel. Right at the beginning of the season in Maryland Kentucky game. And that's where people really started getting excited about Alex Len A. He's bounced around the League. He still plays league. What what's up with Alex? Len You know I I never really saw within and I guess you know he had size and some shooting ability but even around the basket in college like he didn't dominate around the basket. Like you could see like us to get their shot off at the rim around him and you'd be like why how did he not lock that And he actually like on some level he stayed in the League longer than I thought because I wasn't a fan and but he's actually carved out a decent career embiid a little more productive than I expected that he's consistently twenty minutes at night guy. I in the League which is like something in this draft. So you pay ten million dollars to Ben mclemore What went wrong with with macklemore. Yeah he's a guy who in a workout setting as? I'm sure you know Chad can look like Prime Ray Allen you know just. The he's athletic has really beautiful looking stroke And there were some things in his background. That actually were kind of positive like you know. He works on his game. Not Bad guy But just the feel once. It got the five on five. Just the feel for the game just evaporated. I think one of the things that's worked for him in Houston. This year is that it's so simplified for him where it's basically he's going to be in the corner and wait for a pass from James. Corden that that. That's the way that he can play and have some effectiveness. He's had some up down second year in Sacramento. He averaged thirty two minutes a game and twelve points a game. But you look at this rocket season and I think this is exactly right. He plays twenty two minutes a game. He takes six threes a game. He only Averages seven shots a game so six of out of the seven shots he takes are threes. And he's shooting thirty nine and a half percent from three and that can be a role for him in the NBA. Yeah exactly and that was just something. We didn't have the offense players on our team to allow him to do that and so he ended up just happened to do a lot more dribbling in a lot. More decision making there was than was optimal. Certainly are we being unfair to Trey Burke? Trey Burke goes ten. Trey Burke has one two three four five six seasons where he averages double figures points in the. What's up? Was He ever good in any of those years? Though were you ever man. Trey Burke killed US tonight and very streaky. Right like have a big game and the not over and over again. He played for the sixers. This year you know the one thing that you could say maybe positive about his game is. He's shooting forty two percent from three this year. Yeah which is thing that held them back a little in the past he was just okay beyond the line and then obviously with his size needed to need it to be more of a more of a real high level passer distributor than than he was really played. More as a score and guy who's going to chew from mid range off that pick and roll and I think that just added up to less at the NBA level than people thought when he had that big sophomore year at Michigan. Okay well that is the two thousand thirteen NBA draft.

NBA basketball Cody Zeller Otto Porter sixers Trey Burke Chad Ford John Stephen Adams Nerlens Noel Michael Carter Williams League Anthony Bennett CJ mccollum Cleveland Cavaliers John Hollinger Grizzlies Victor Oladipo ALEX LEN
The Shallow Lakers, a Kyrie Irving Setback, and Max Player Buddy Hield? Plus: the NBA League Pass Draft | Heat Check

The NBA Show

47:31 min | 1 year ago

The Shallow Lakers, a Kyrie Irving Setback, and Max Player Buddy Hield? Plus: the NBA League Pass Draft | Heat Check

"NBA Show is presented by state farm the moment we've all been waiting for is about to arrive the official start of the NBA season this off season was filled with a lot of big changes in fresh starts the fresh starts in your life talked to a state farm agent so when it comes to insurance you don't have to go it alone fresh starts all over the NBA have got Hawaiian p g all right so the Lakers are back from China gang and as we all know the NBA Shutdown Media Vail amidst the say hey google to get started now let's start he check about combining your home and auto insurance and get a teammate who can help you prepare for the big changes in your life state farm today's show is also brought to you by the Google national controversy with the Chinese Popovich popped off again and fired back at trump but we did our geopolitical pod last week so we'll continue to monitor that in the future but some basket our second annual league pass draft but first we're going to review some headlines from around the league and a segment we're calling NBA instant replay Who will be with us at the start of every show every week let's bring him in Dannon Haley? Roi On that on Monday so by the time you guys listen to this we might already have more news on that but we'll spend it for it a little bit here Haley the Lakers have enough depth to survive ball related things that happened in China Gang Anthony Davis off injured injured again sprained his thumb versus the Nazi as grade one ligament strain he's going to have an typing on my phone just by saying hey google tech stand vine you were right which is something I tell Dan all the time because he's frequently right comes in handy a little help hands-free just we did it we didn't get fired after week one day coastal elites we did not get fired after one week we'll see how to goes in a little bit we're going to have watch and we'll have lots of basketball to talk about we want to thank you guys for listening a reminder to please rate and review US wherever you get fined podcasts and don't forget about all the great NBA content a piece about kristaps Porzingis and Luca Danni coach together on the mavs and with the mavs offense will look like the season Dan Devine has ten other stories be sure to check the of an exit survey so that's all very fun later coming up in the show Mike appears will join us for the Second Annual League pash draft Isaac as you remember I won that eight days away from the NBA season tipping off it's here it's almost here it is here I've been watching preseason basketball league full life but soon we will have regular basketball now joining me one of them's in studio one is why across the country and our NYC HQ it's heat check coast to coast regulars Kalian Dan gang two weeks in a row and this is a basketball but I love breaking bad so be sure to check out all of our El Camino content we've got various thick pieces up there by Alison Herman and miles and then we listed Google assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car at home and everywhere you take your phone with the assistant I can send a text check I'm your host Jong is Oz joined as I am every week producer Isaac Isaac we are just by the way they're not that's a completely different problem it's about who's going to take over the four position that affects the three they have a couple of guys who are interchangeable but they don't have it having the Ringer Dot Com Haley compiled very fun list of a modern NBA dictionary and she also spent some time with you holidays do you want to read those two pieces KFC has sure I think this is fake news this is completely full Freddie Shar one that but we're going to do another one we're GONNA do another one run through author teams which teams are excited to watch but first let's go to our regular new contributor absolutely not because what we saw worked well was next to eighty right is not even a matter of them being good backup centers which enough guys and they absolutely still need Anthony Davis what else would it be then last year's team without Lonzo bad version Dan Devine suspect you concur with Haley's assessment here yeah I mean if I'm going to have to take the opposite side of Nah they're totally fine with Anthony Davis that's going to be a rough beat for your boy team USA because he had that injury so getting him healthy and operation at least gets another body into the mix at the four spot We sort of expected this team was gonna go as far as the MVP of an injury to Anthony Davis I'm surprised you'd ask me that without laughing of course they don't we shade Jill and you don't think javelin do I can do this honestly talent takes it it's a good thing you have two of those well you know what if you don't and what if you're without one for an extended period of time certainly not the start that they were looking to get off to it the Lakers if this is something that I want to say that I just looked up the Lakers depth chart in ten people are listed day today to out obviously cousins Dwight they're taking some liberties with the term debt father time but he could come for assault that's fair I am very old All other things that are developed in China the nets a little setback with kyrie irving who who aggravated a facial fracture. I've never had a facial fracture that sounds painful aggravating it also does not sound good same question only we'll go to Dan this time I jason check discovery bad propensity to have I'm not trying to get regular face breaking is part of my Diet but apparently Kyrie's bone structure has concerns to deal with and the mask issue I mean it's going to be pretty big for them to get Kyle Kuzma back at some point you know they're reportedly nearing laugh to his foot and ankle injury yeah you know he barely oh he didn't wasn't able to he is in New York and lives in Brooklyn the concerns over not having career around potentially the nets are sort of maybe better position to handle a little bit of that at least because you've got answer dinwiddie around you have Carris levert you've got some guys that can handle the ball and run the offense we saw what the nets look like with that last season when those guys who took a step forward next to the Ngelo Russell Linger for awhile and they get off to a slow start is that danger will Robinson for the Lakers can they overcome because they do I mean the West I don't know if you guys have checked this out we're going to look at the I think you have to be a little bit worried though Kyri has I believe it's Jeff starts from The injury blog in street clothes called a propensity for facial fractures that is turned his contract into an investment opportunity despite the fact that the NBA said he can't do it he's going to do it anyway as our resident financial expert she's always pushing me chart the Lakers won't fairness all day to day pending something horrifying happening to US Gandhi already threatened us if we screw up today so that'll be it for I'm not going to say Hailee IPO Shaughnessy gambling is essentially the same investing right why not Dan you've actually check this out a little bit right have you not didn't you like at least read the athletic articles the three of the basic terms throw them out as much as you can say luxury tax lease five times a conversation nobody wants can be with you anymore you want to make anything up we'LL SPENCER DINWIDDIE investment opportunity contract into that mix speaking of contracts Haley and this is one I know that you have paid attention to the kings and buddy this about new dictionary. NBA terms excellent posted for very real returning fans and I was like look nobody really understands it should anyway don't worry about it doc in know how to talk about this is all part of the heat shock operation you are I mean sometimes he's been great with that sometimes it's been not so I don't think they're expecting him so he'll be out I an extended period of time but without it's going to be the Kyri show you need to get him on the court as soon as possible passes for the best you have a handsome face I don't WanNa see it broken you did mention money Spencer Dinwiddie and I want to bring this up as well and other news and other headlines Spencer Dinwiddie is charging ahead with his plan peos and crypto currency she's basically Jim Cramer of heat shock Haley explained this to me because I do not understand it I'm giving you the dirtiest look right now choice he's telling you I'll take a little bit less than the maximum absolutely have to keep make him happy the best point that you made was it's Sacramento which I have often referred to as the Cleveland of Califor- and you gotta get more bar fights give them facial factors I'm not too far behind father time my my bar fighting days never happened and if they did they would be all long gone by now they're long buddy healed worth AMAC sticking absolutely have to keep him I think that he's one of the most underrated players in the league and he got a lot of attention last year plus what was all this four you can't prove your point what was this entire trade for the jokes about the next steph curry for and then all of a sudden he's the best in the league looking like it in a couple of years old are apparently at an impasse. He would be restricted free agent next summer unless they reach a contract extension this month it's a bad twenty twenty free agent pool there are reports Haley India which I don't know which one is more insulting to which state or city but it's true they're very similar nobody's going there give them the Max my Polish sacramen- so when we do our league pass draft the West pretty good that's my expert analysis since saying a lot of really smart sturgeon that's why awesome yeah I've taken a quick look into it because I don't understand crypto currency or token is securities or a lot other words that make our eyes glaze over but Michael Peters what's going down else harder but I think you're right healed should be worth that to them because even if he's only worth a little bit less than that on the open market you got to kind of solidify what you have in Sacramento because you can't just he's willing to take slightly less than the Max to stay with Sacramento Riley Makati our resident kings fan maybe the only kings fan says give him the Max and just done with it is games watch out that's it that's my analysis watch out guns you are you're crushing it this morning I'm in midseason form watching him go to the hoop every time I know we what I do know is you need one hundred and fifty just to buy into this whenever it starts so I think is the only one who can get there that's Isaac I'm singing career I was gonNA suggest the residuals off of how a Luca alone should get him right right yeah that's the one chain nobody even understands the salary cap today I did a Mike Ah here we've got Isaac here we've got Haley and Dan we're going to do the second annual league pass draft last year you guys weren't on the leap past draft last year Isaac was you can't pay all of them Max's off their eventually and then complicating that you paid Harrison Barnes a lot of money so like maybe that was sort of the the complicating factor that makes every all back after what you had last year and he was a huge part of what made them so successful and as I mentioned earlier in the show the West I looked at it very good are you going to need some talent less will be that title probably for sure what is all this for if you don't keep him giving the Max I think that plus also it Sacramento Hillside lamentable when he's coming there by there's the phrase you can power your way to the basket and he like is the only one we should be saying that about right now it's wild I haven't seen this in so long art so we're going to is that correct me if I'm wrong I won last year I will correct you because you are wrong lunar I believe I think it was Juliet Juliet Talk About Zion Williamson I I suspect quite a bit when we start our league pass draft that was NBA instant replay. Let's get to the lead pastor let's bring in and get another member of the heat check family just so everybody understands the rules here there are no rules pet whatever team you want for whatever reason you just give us an example or a reason join here for headlines and continuing the idea that the West is very good and you're going to need some talent Zion Williamson as advertised so far gang just absolutely murdering P Haley's first lady why not so in your estimation your various scientific requires no explanation you know work got to start thinking about what the future looks like so the Fox is GonNa come up at some point Bagley is gonNA come up at some point they're going to get there with Donna that's right away because they signed him to a and we're just gonNA run through these teams because there's all kinds of reasons why people like to watch various teams on league pass for example last year I watched an inordinate amount of Phoenix Suns basketball because I li it's fine journalist reporter instincts off a hurt people hurt people I'm taking the Sixers at a full life and I like to watch Devon Booker Cook so who knows who end up on my team or your team but I I have determined the draft order very scientific it does so I purposely put you I randomly randomly as I said Mike a second because I wanted this to give us it is I mean it was an arbitrary decision by myself and I was more concerned about keeping my job I'll let you decide who the winner this year we're going to have a different judge the greatest Q. Q.'s it's the greatest song in the NBA maybe sports large Dan Devine you're picking third I think that he's another player who we could see a second emergence and that that's also true for I think Lonzo ball may be more than Brandon Ingram but both of them are possibilities behind your methodology why you are picking this particular team on the leap Hash we're going to draft all thirty teams we're GONNA keep it moving Dan Devine I'm looking at your handsome phase we're going to keep him moving I told everybody lives there Dan Give them the Max right yeah the the the complicating factor for that is just when you're really bad for a long time and you've got a lot of young guys on rookie scale deals when I suspect when we do our league pass draft he's going to be top of mind for some people but twenty one of twenty five overall from the floor in his first couple of preseason a singular and also maybe maybe I'm excited about Zaire Smith have you ever considered that I just I just feel like this is going to be a very invite you on the podcast and I feel like I've invited you into my home I'm sorry that I am just genuinely excited Oh first kicking off our twenty nineteen NBA heat check annual league pass draft isn't it obvious is the Pelicans I don't WanNa miss it explanation on the Pelicans that's one way to treat people sure I don't WanNa miss a second is eye on and also I did that feature on drew holiday yes you did it's GonNa be Haley then Mike then Dan than Isaac and I'm GonNa I'm GonNa be the end of the snake I'll go feth insects so hail you get to go a longer term contract after at Europe so he's GonNa hit restricted free agency as well all these guys they got the important parts of the puzzle they gotta figure out kind of who is going to Dan they got Leonard they got who's the other Guy Paul George he's pretty good all of your as well and they have some other really exciting young guys so I think it's a team of the future it's like who we didn't know the kings were going to be last year but way more talented they're going to be fun now they're on your league pass team Mica I suspect that that would have been your pick there off the board now who do you take number suspect it might have been my about the swaying thicket of lanes have in the van and also the fact that Ben Simmons is hitting threes and maybe some of light he's hitting threes attention draft now now now we're all trying to hurt each other to say that you started it is it can we at least get some music on this it's Calvin and hobbes going Downhill Haley I would like to return the favor here but I feel like you have a black heart and don't care about anything don't have a team the Lakers in Los Angeles so jokes on you an MBA read it streams is no longer a thing or Ip Isaac that's welcome to the Marvin Bagley bogged down Bogdonovich they lost the Willie Cauley Stein which is addition by subtraction and they added some veterans. I'M GONNA have fun watching the Kings nobody has punishment for me so I'm GonNa take the Sacramento Kings 'cause they're actually came they brought back the same exciting core from last year I said that sentence I will have fun watching the Kings you're the first person to put those words together in succession in the English what can I say I believe in last year's draft they won world I don't know what they're gonNa look like exactly when those guys are all healthy but I'm looking forward to watching a lot of it and is it not getting to petty this become are love being disappointed that you didn't get your team you are picking fourth with the clippers off the it would make sense for me to take the New York Knicks right now but I feel like I means that's more Saturday podcast and make silence I will not be raised is they were one of the most fun team to watch for most of last season and they added two of the five best players in the so that we thought they might have last year interesting is going to be good nicely done Halio Shaughnessy she's a forecaster With the six pack in the in the final round good for the Kings I guess I'd go go pay buddy he'll feel like they're like the kings alike like a ramshackle sled that's going like really fast they can I don't have to just not watch any other teams that you did you probably four years watch the clippers first of all league pass has blocked out the clippers here and there my teams a number of which team are you obsessed with last year attend to them like little chickens Haley don't tell steal them for you and you know Kentucky Professional Sports Work Legions worth do you ever like by proxy for every time I was there okay now the sixers are off the board man so we're going with the theme of hurting people I'm going to take Isaac lease layered just just you just me I'm very yeah the knees take I've helped I'm very interested to see if the Lakers can actually realize some of the only playing transition and eventually the wheels just GonNa fly off that's so much fun yeah that's a lot of fun to ensure good choice is sake wall just because they had the playoffs against the heat and the Lebron truly of like strangely at tendrils fan I get randomly obsessed with teams every year humid I can say from you and layers I've many players what's everybody else here has team how do you not have a player in the player because to me loss Angeles Lakers you did it because Laurent is my number one player Ron is Lebron is still a human being who exists very basketball I'll even your personal number one checked annual NBA League pass draft. I'm GonNa take the best and most interesting players still on the board give me honest in the box wash yourself I'm GonNa go with you go with your instincts here and the team that's a fascinating is right in our backyard. Ad May or may not be around with the fifth pick I'M GONNA take consigning lashes last year was the nets and the kings and yes might go for many years before it was the timber wolves so she's all over the place still pain I'm GonNa go with communication issue where they don't even get out of the first round after being one of the best teams in the West all season long so they've still got something to prove it's going to be a fun team Mike Peters the draft position yes I'll tell you how are you going to take most dunk some league away from me I wanted there's no such 7-foot-4 now actually they remeasured him that's unbelievable Isaac well done wait a way to bounce back from the ruination visited upon you in round one this is Mike devastating whatever he wants to do all those young guys few bit better trick or treat players in the League Jamal Murray tons of young talent what is Michael Porter Jr. Lots of things to be able to watch a and kristaps will pair together in the new look Dallas Mavericks he's got some stuff in there from our Guy Bobi apparently the mavs very much WanNa play five out this year and includes one bo-bottle Ianovich who is going to be cranking three balls Dan Devine that is unbelievable and I mean having too many seven foot three guys shooting elite like man whatever fine I'm going to take him to take the second most dogs and go the Utah Jazz Oh my God that was the answer I'm sorry did you did you want dollar Mitchell on your did you WanNa have we there will be a trade who knows Isaac you are on the clock I'm taking the Dallas Mavericks owner obviously but also now yes kristaps Porzingis and in Los Angeles Mike Conley in Utah and of course Al Horford leaving Boston for a much better study America's best said he frankly Philadelphia talked to a state farm agent today so the greatest basketball player to ever grace this galaxy is on the same his name is Bogor Ianovich by the way if you read Kevin o'connors piece today about how Luca a-rated and going to be very fun to watch let's quickly touch on the jazz because I think that there are high expectations with the jazz having my connolly now and adding Bogdanovich who was just a kid the privilege of watching Donovan Mitchell all season just you know I I was just wondering I'm sorry I'm sorry but I watch these teams I wanted you to end up with the Pelicans he didn't get it instead he took my sister's that's that's an absolute that is a filthy and odious lie did not expect me to take the Pelicans her three point shooter last year for the Pacers especially in the corner on corner threes are we buying the jazz as top Tier Western Conference contenders is this the year where they through I think it could be yeah absolutely yeah especially since they still have Julie Anglesey's my I absolutely would hate playing against anyone like Joe Ingles I would not want him anywhere like on my team like he looks like your shitty college roommate the leaves dishes in the sink but he hits threes you're on the clock speaking of Giant Eastern European gentlemen I'm going to go with the Denver Nuggets led by one Nicola Yokich they were eh you already have the sixers what else what other pain can you visit upon the phases just so full of regret right now I'm like it's just unfold and I I think they're going to be awesome but they're so deep and last year they almost I mean there is a scenario there where if the spurs hadn't brain lapse in that game seven he annoys the shit out of everyone is a great passer scrape grace passer suddenly they have a bunch of shooters in a modern offense I like it it's going to be a fun they're going to be playing clock to clock talk that I have running right here how much time do I have I'm just getting it's the warriors I know this sounds weird but for the first time the world ears are GonNa be a team that we're not sure what's coming from them their defense is going to be way worse Dangelo and stuff on the perimeter one of the most fun teams in the League last year I had no idea if they were actually the second best team in the western not but they kept winning Yokich is just a monster see when he puts his mind to scoring when he they were they were playing faster last season but it seems like they're going to play even faster the season which would be great good for Mike Conley too I'm excited for my connelly to have nice things Halio Shaughnessy takeover way more I want to see what he's like when he has more responsibility I don't know in clay's coming back I don't know if they wanNA risk that early maybe they'll trade dangelo later in the season before the trade deadline I mean it seems like that's why they signed him them figuring it out is going to be interesting they're going to be interesting for the first time in like two years yeah they do okay Jared Allen to that too yeah then that's going to be fun yeah Dan Devan you're in Brooklyn do you feel you you're shaking your head you're not sure about that nations to make and and in the eastern conference which again going back to my earlier analysis the west very good these by comparison not as good the raptors could still be I will say though that I wonder how much of this past couple of seasons of just grinding out an entire season followed by the lengthy playoffs followed by him at the NBA finals last year he's a delight he really is and he's actually a pretty interesting position because the raptors just extended kyle hours contract for another year and thirty one million so he all those finals appearances like that's gotTa take a toll on Draymond that's gotTa take a toll on staff now they don't have K. D. now they don't have klay like how much do they have left in the tank under contract for two more years van Vliet hits unrestricted free agency this summer because he was a an undrafted guy not somebody that's GonNa hit restricted free agency so they've got to figure out like what's the Price Point Love Pascal I love him I love Fred and I feel like I wrote a first name basis with all these Fred Father Fred he he did have mass whipping in the in the finals very interesting to me I want to I like teams when I'm not sure what they are anymore when the star is gone Sir I mean I think they're the most interesting thing about them is how they make it through a year waiting for what they're really going to be you know durant they're they're saying can you just say something this is a bad pick they're not going to be fun to watch we don't even know how I don't even know how we win this dragging your third thing in the Eastern Conference there's a scenario where the where they're you know in that four or five middle of the Eastern Conference playoff pack kyle lowered not dead yet just got a new contract who knows what happens for him what's the role for him next couple years and what did he do with lowery so I think he's a really interesting player in a team that I I think he's right we don't know exactly what they're gonNA look like but there's a lot of time witty and Kyrie Irving who's going to swashbuckler I'm still thinking about Charissa Vert just beating James Ennis's asked with an inch of his life During the added in particularly explosive way I will also say that Kyrie Irving has never played a full season in his career he played somewhere in the sixties the last two years I know that couragous said that steps never been in better shape everybody's in career best shape at this point in the season in training camp there's many questions here it's still there or whatever will say I'm a unifying force so we don't gang south against Isaac podcast no I think like Masai has a lot of Charles I see do you remember that one panel where it was just like I can't remember who it was I was sitting on the bench that was just staring over and it's a shoulder it wasn't like it wasn't good for him but the sixers did okay nets blue I was gonna take the nuts because maybe this is the year the DOJ Jordan figures it out this rumor in career. But I'm not you guys I'm as Dan said I'm father time but my career best days are over give another team raptors that's interesting and he'll undoubtedly miss time this year here's a propensity for facial fractures. Yeah I heard about that and that's not good echoes the two thousand seventeen eighteen celtics right exactly Kyri so I hate watch the Celtics listeners of heat check know and understand I'm interested to see actor's Day not dead yet wikipedia who were on the clock I am going to go with the Brooklyn the guys that matter so like maybe he winds up playing I don't know I'm interested but they also might not be that much better than like a forty four forty five win team and I don't know if they arrived I'm not gonNA come back before the end of the season so it everything sort of a holding pattern I'm excited to see what liver it looks like he got the extension you know he's sort of a building block now Jared Allen's a backup center it looks like right now were they fall in the stretch which brings us back to Dan Devine who I maybe he'll go with Boston we don't know Dan you're on the clock the I'm GonNa take not the Celtics I'm going to go and this admittedly as an also I am white high on John Morand absolutely I think he's leading the preseason and assists per game right now he's already looks like he can play pick and roll in the NBA at a high level ignore it nobody's no there's no right or wrong in the heat check league pass stress Dan Devine you're a big fan of one Fred vanfleet dating back from our times talking to Chuck Scott me into triple J before he was even in the League he was so much fun to watch last year before he got injured he plays at both ends of the floor he protects the remmy shoots three the thing they got in the Josh Jackson Trade Summer so like I don't know there's a bunch of interesting pieces and I have no idea how they all fit together but they're like young athletic long and I think you're GonNa be fun to watch there are so many more exciting players I'm talking boarding they have like this three has negative care silver carrots or Gli you're on the clock next but why I think we should remind everybody that of all the NBA shows that we do here at the ringer he check his long established that the record perspective this is a bit of a reach but I'm going with the Memphis Grizzlies of this law pick they were what no I swear there on my board because I am know what to do with his hands yet and I'm interested to see how that how that all plays out the Anthony Melton is a weird little dude playing point guard might wind up being sort of like Tony Allen two point Oh he was like the which seems crazy that's weird but I don't know but I'll say that will change very quickly I think it should but I mean you man just got forty million dollars because De'andre is friends with they've got just a bunch of Weird dudes that are fun to watch like Bruno Cowpoke lows in the mix there Brandon Clark their first round pick they could be a really sort of big it's like a giant team that doesn't Ed Fire Red Alternate Jerseys. Cj Dame Refund Back Court I think that Collins could do some things this year I'm hopeful that that he'll emerge I like his normal things Portland they made the conference finals last year for the first time in two decades I love dame have you seen their new court by the way Russia hopeful for him to In the same way the previously like after lamarcus Aldridge left Portland I was convinced that Meyers Leonard was going to be a thing as I always played above the rim all right I'm on the board for to another team that we ever long loved here at he checks still on the board I'm GonNa take the blazers turns out. He has too many cursive tattoos on his biceps to succeed it did not succeed I was like he's big he shoot threes he runs lot could could see Mars under doing some

NBA Dannon Haley Lakers Sacramento Kings Dan Devine Spencer Dinwiddie Isaac nets google Kyri clippers Haley India Popovich China celtics official trump Dallas Mavericks Portland Sacramento
Ep 8: NBA RE-DRAFT 2007

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

57:39 min | 5 months ago

Ep 8: NBA RE-DRAFT 2007

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy chat. I have an exciting announcement Chad. Ford's NBA. Big Board. Podcast will be featured on the lineup of pod. Palooza a virtual festival to raise money for OVID relief. Think of it as live aid but for podcast you buy a ticket. And that gives you access to a special pod Palooza. Podcast where over one hundred incredible podcasters will be showcasing their work you'll get a festival schedule and new episodes will drop over the course of the weekend. Listen as they come out or save the content for later money all goes to give directly a nonprofit providing economic relief to the families that have been hit the hardest by the pandemic. We've been thinking about how we make a positive impact in the light of the current crisis. Enter thrilled to have the chance to do something. We love while contributing to this important. 'cause the festival goes live this weekend on April twenty fifth. I'll be featuring my podcast Chad. Ford's MBA big board with Bill Simmons and there's only one way to tune in gay ticket go pod PALOOZA DOT ORG or P L Z. A DOT ORG for short. That'S P L Z. A dot. Org tickets are pay what you can so contribute to the effort here from us and maybe even discover some new favorite podcast along the way Mahalo. Aloha you're listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the locked on network. And I am with John Hollander senior writer for the athletic and Co host of Hollander Duncan on the lockdown network. We are back doing yet. Another redraft this time of the two thousand seven NBA draft again. If you've new to the pod as a reminder we're GONNA do it in the form of a mock draft each of us will rotate making picks based on hindsight what should have happened on draft night. Were GonNA draft the entire lottery? I'm really excited John to do this draft with you because this draft was a was a big deal at the time. Yes yes that. Probably the most excitement about a draft. probably up until maybe comparable to the The draft two years ago with eight nine Luca But that that level of excitement Possibly even more I mean. People were people who don't normally watch college games or watching college games at year. Let's put it that way. You had an incredible Florida team that had multiple draft prospects on that team. You had Greg Oden an Ohio state that we're going to have to the top four picks in the draft on that team as well. This was the year Kevin Durant was setting Texas on fire and was one of the finest college basketball players that that at least that I had ever seen. There was just a lot of names and a lot of excitement around this draft and it didn't turn out the way that people thought it was gonNA turn out which is true with most drafts but yet there was a lot of talent in this draft and so. John I'm GonNa give you the first pick in the draft. We know that the blazers were on the clock. And maybe it's worth going over the draft one more time so you can get a taste of what actually happened on draft night so the first pick in the draft was the blazers they took. Greg Oden number one out of Ohio state. The Sonics the Seattle Supersonics were on the board with the second pick in the draft. They took Kevin Durant out of Texas. The hawks had the third pick in the draft. They took Al Horford out of Florida. Mike Conley teammate of Greg Oden went forth to the Memphis Grizzlies Jeff. Green went fifth in a pick that was traded to the Sonics. The Boston Celtics had that pick but traded it to Seattle in. What was going to be a fairly big deal for them. They got out of that deal and that was the start of the. They won the championship that year. Yeah Yeah Yizheng Leeann. Out of China. The man who dominated chairs in workouts went six to the Milwaukee Bucks Corey brewer teammate. Of Al Horford Went seven to the Minnesota Timberwolves Brandon. Right when eight to the Charlotte bobcats then was traded the Golden State Warriors Yoki Noah. The Third Florida player drafted three players in the top nine. That's incredible goes nine to the Chicago Bulls Spencer Hawes Freshman out of Washington goes ten the Sacramento Kings. Acie law goes eleventh to the Atlanta Hawks. Daddy Xiang Freshman Out of Georgia Tech Does Twelfth Philadelphia. Seventy sixers Jillian right. Kansas superstar number thirteen Norlin Hornets. I'd love Jillian right. Yeah you gotta stay away from those Kansas guys and then fourteenth to the Los Angeles Clippers was Al Thornton a senior out of Florida state. So that's how it went on draft night. I don't think that's at all what are redraft. Is GonNa look like Blazers around the clock? You have the number one. Pick DO RETAKE GREG ODEN. So given that he played one hundred five career games. I think I think we're going to go away from that. I will say I. It's easy for people to say. In hindsight they should've taken durant here. The I would say there was an overwhelming consensus. That Odin was the top prospect and the mentality at the time which is different than now. Is that passing on a generational? Big Was a mistake. You could not make and I think now people just see it differently. Value perimeter players more in centers are almost like this other this other category And it just wasn't like that fifteen years ago so it's aboard thing to remember. Obviously I will be taking Kevin Durant number one here I don't know what I don't know what else to say. He gets to stay in the Pacific northwest. That's when I get to say because he's picked by Portland so there you have it. Why was Odin? You talked about generational big the the thinking that the time that you don't pass on a big man at when you have the chance at the number one pick but there were red flags about Odin. Yeah questions about injuries there. Were there. Were flags there that. Yeah so I think the medical situation is one where we as on the outside. We don't get a chance to look under the hood. Clearly there were there. Were flags raised if you talk if you talk to teams and it's just a question of how how serious were those. Were those Red Flags Because that was the one issue that I think could have swum things in durant's favor because Odin when he did play was a very good player he just wasn't available to play very much. Yeah if you look at when chairs per forty eight minutes Greg. Oden is the second or third best player in the draft When you just look at at what? He did in In the short amount of time when he was healthy and on the court and some of that was getting back into shape as well and so it probably would have even been better than that. He was just healthy. It's really interesting. Kevin Pritchard has a lot of pressure. I think the other interesting thing was at the time a player like durant was actually more of a need for the blazers. At the time I think there was also some push there for durant on that end and you know one of the most interesting things about Odin was Kevin Pritchard. Who's the general manager at the time really got very defensive about Odin and his medicals and how much I work they did into this? How many doctors they brought into the process how carefully they looked at him over and over again and when they drafted him. They were highly confident. That medicals weren't an issue. There was a lot of other general managers and teams out there that were raising red flags but the blazers were insistent that they had gone through odin with a fine tooth comb. Everything checked out fine and that it was really a freak injury. It's really interesting in hindsight because I mean you could. You could do all the legwork but your analysis has to be good to get a part of it right like like whatever. They did whatever analysis they did clearly. It didn't pan out that way right right though. It's also possible that you can have a clean bill of health and just get hurt. A right doctors can't predict. Yeah although that that you might just get hurt on something that has nothing to do with the other injuries that had because he had an injury throughout the season but I believe it was only possible but I mean Odin with like you know. He needed the surprise microfracture. He got a serious injury on a non contact. Play like there. I think his injury proneness was pretty much baked in so the Blazers. Just in your opinion they probably just they. They did the analysis. They just got it wrong on him that that would be that would be my conclusion. Yes wow well durant turns out to be incredible. Where does he rank in your mind? In the past twenty years as best players to come out of the draft. And let's say the last twenty years. Wow in the last twenty years I mean who who clearly outranks Miami. Certainly Lebron James Right. The argument that Janas does You know he'd probably be in that next year with James Harden NRI did. This was by the way the first of three. Mvp's that's impressive drafted. Which is an accomplishment that I think nobody will ever match. It's an incredible. Yeah after after Lebron James. Because we're talking about anybody that was drafted if we say the last twenty years anybody that was drafted from two thousand on. I'm not sure that there is a player that I take ahead of Kevin Durant not even Janas and I and I love Jaanus and I. I could end up being really wrong on that I. I'm just not sure from the all around game that that Kevin Durant brings to the table that there's a player that I would take take ahead of him. What about Curry Pool? Yeah I mean. There's there's you know there's steph curry there's James Harden There's Jaanus I mean there's definitely other other players there. I'm a Kevin Durant Guy. Well they passed on a maybe if nothing else a top two three four player in the last twenty years I take Greg Oden though again in defense of at least the game of Greg Oden. The talent was clearly there. Ya of what what he was going to be at the next level it showed it at Ohio state obviously showed it in in high school in the limited minutes that he got in the NBA. He definitely looked like he had the potential to be a franchise center. Yes yes okay. Well the Sonics are on the board. At number two their whole franchise gets turned around really by drafting durant. And then they're gonNA get Russell Westbrook and then there are ultimately going to get James Harden their James Harden ends up getting really traded before he becomes the James Harden. The we know today things look really different in. Seattle with Kevin Durant not there clearly. 'cause the next best guy to me on the on this board was Al Horford out of Florida. And that's that's who I'm going to select number two for the Sonics Horford at player that I just absolutely loved in college because of his versatility On one hand he had all of the size strength length of a traditional power forward slash center in the NBA. But he can handle the ball. He could shoot the ball. He really was a modern NBA. Big really before we got into the era of modern. Mba Biggs. And I think that again injuries have have played somewhat of a role in his career a little bit but I think he's just been a versatile fantastic player that if he had landed on an elite basketball team I think would be even more highly regarded than than than he's been throughout his career. Yeah he ended up on a lot of good teams but not on championship caliber teams. He could have been that guy who was the third best player in a championship team and ends up in the hall of fame. Because of it right he could have been like one of those guys like Jamaal Wilkes but a better version and a big guy and Did didn't quite happen that way but he still had a tremendous career made multiple all star. Teams just been just been a really solid good player and a really solid good Person To have on your team in your locker room and had a tremendous career an in his tremendous. Al Horford is I mean this is. This is the luck of the draft. Right if you get Kevin Durant and you get a superstar. Everything changes in your franchise. Al Horford a really really good basketball player can't really change much for a franchise though without a lot of other pieces coming in making it. If they win the Hawks got him they turn the corner that year. They became pretty good. But that was all they became. You know those Joe Johnson. Josh Smith teams like Al Horford took them for mediocrity to okay now. We're legit playoffs. Even teams actually had some fear when they play us but they were never going to get to that top level. Just with him okay. It's the third pick of the draft. That's the hawks. I can't believe you're doing this to me. Do you realize you're making me choose between two children here. I absolutely know that right now. I hope Marc Gasol and Mike Conley are listening right now on. Hollinger has to choose between he was so hoping I was GonNa take assaulted. Would you have taken gasol too? Yeah I would yeah I would. I think I know who you're gonNA take here so I'm GonNa take mark and I'm going to take market because his early career ramped up a little more quickly than Mike stood so when you look at the whole body of work is is probably a little stronger So his his two thousand fifteen season was probably the best individual season. Anyone ever had in Memphis when he made first team all NBA So I'll I'll go with mark because of that. I can't believe he made me do this but yeah I mean. Obviously he was. He was the best pick made in this draft. The Lakers took him with a forty eight. Pick because everyone was concerned about his weight and then he went and won the MVP in the Spanish league and Was TRADED TO MEMPHIS for his brother POW IN A FAMOUS TRADE. That ended up Dictating another championship. And what was really famous about that? Trade in part was that people complained that the Lakers got away with highway robbery. Yes getting POW for mark. It was unfair. This was an uneven trade people. Were calling for investigations. Orion this poverty committee like the one you know like in fantasy leagues. It disapproves trades right. I mean that's that's how lopsided that trade seemed at the time because that perception of Markelle Seoul was was still there that this was the Chubby little brother to POW GOAL. That was in part getting drafted more based off of WHO? He was related to than than his than his basketball talent. Though that was clear as you pointed out in the Spanish league that he could play. I don't think anybody obviously predicted that. He would be as good as his brother. I'm GonNa put you on. The spot. Here was marked. This'll better than his brother. Wow you could argue his best season or two might have been better than POWs However make first team all NBA POW. I think had the had a longer duration as an all-star caliber player POWs overall bodywork overs careers. Better marks peak might have been just as good and very different players. Obviously mark one defensive player of the year which I don't believe POW is ever a contender for but mark also didn't quite have POWs ability to run the floor and some his grace and and You know skill around the basket. I think that's the right pick for the hawks. Fourth pick goes to the grizzlies. They selected. Mike Conley I think they would re-select Mike Conley again is he. One of the most underrated players his career yeah NBA because of where he played. And how those grizzly teams were always good. But never quite turn the corner the way that he would have gotten more notoriety at. Just more notoriety. More shots I mean. It was a team where the paint was always so crowded that it was tough for him to take advantage of his speed as much as he could so. I think that that was the other part that always worked against him. best player in NBA history never to make an all star game. should have been selected as an injury replacement in two thousand fifteen. I'm still bitter about that. But yeah I mean tremendous career and and one that gets I think overlooked a little because because of the market we were in and because it was in the West is I mean if we had played in the East right would have been the conference finals a lot of years and like it would have been. He would've made all star teams would have gotten a lot. More coming. Sold have been multiple multiple almost all stars and the east. So would have been more notoriety there but unfortunately you know my two big games. When I came to the grizzlies were to move to the east and to abolish the three point line. And I couldn't do either. You were there. When ultimately these guys who became really franchise pillars for your organization yet? Automated traded traded them to start at the start rebuilding process in Memphis. How hard was that emotionally to? Let go of two guys that had done so much for you. And and had been really loyal and pillar of that franchise let them both go and it and it was hard because they they wanted to do it together and in. Memphis if they could you know and it was really only when it when it was pretty hopeless that it was like okay you could trade out you know what. I mean And it's funny. Because I think that. In in retrospect like the obvious time to blow up the team would have been after the sixteen seventeen season. We'd had a pretty decent year. We'd made the playoffs but like we were. We were coming to the end of the line like you could see it on the birth certificates or caps situation are everyone looked at it like this was as good as it was going to get and it was only. GonNa get worse from here and I think just turning around that ocean liner was so hard because there's such an emotional investment you build up as an organization and you know not from the owners down to the business people in the coaches and whatnot and So I think that's why those those next two years there was this sort of trying to push the rock up the hill and see if you know see we could still build a winning team or out Mike and mark and it just wasn't gonNA happen. Will the good news for Mark is that it gets traded to the Trial Raptors an NBA championship? And the good news before the season fell apart because of Cova. Nineteen is that Mike. It's traded to the Utah Jazz and the jazz were real contenders. I thought this year and so one thing. I think that the grizzlies did them right. Was they put both of these players in a chance at the end of their careers to be on really really successful teams. Yeah Yeah so yeah. I mean we're happy. We're able to do that for them and you know. Put them in a put them in a position to hopefully get some. You know get some career accolades and help you know. Help THEM HELP GET WITH A. They're looking for but you know it's you go back to those Memphis teams and the Arrow wherein in the NBA. And I think the thing that people overlook was that not just. We had four really good players. When you look Mike and mark and Zach Randolph at Tony Allen but that all four of them wanted to be where they were and I think that's the part that's really rare especially in a market like Memphis that that you're just not going to see much This smallest market in the NBA Memphis. It's right down there I think it's technically not the smallest. I think oak city might be smaller. I think by some measures New Orleans maybe if you don't include Baton Rouge I'm not sure depends you know we're talking. Tv markets is early. You know there's all different ways they measure but no matter how you slice it. I mean it's definitely in the bottom five. Okay well the fifth pick the Celtics. Have this pick They ended up trading it to Seattle for Ray Allen. Yeah those are good move. The Celtics are still on the board here. I think almost than any scenario. Whoever's left you trade them for Ray Allen the jobs at yeah yeah and then no matter who's left on this board. Even in hindsight he trade them for Ray Allen Zoa. I mean what the boss of people told me. After the fact was they knew they were getting Garnett and so they. That's why they went ahead and did this. So let's say they traded to Seattle so we'll put Seattle on the on the clock. Here they got al. Horford there on the clock again at five hundred they take. I will take another grizzlies legend here. Jokey NOAH. I think you're GONNA have to explain to some of our listeners. Why that's a grizzlies legend. But go ahead. Pair them with Horford just like Just like Florida did because you took a Horford a two for Seattle so now correct. Yep Seattle gets jokey no eight five so joking. No was on our team Last season actually as as backup five and he was tremendous Tremendous fun to be around tremendous practice competitor. Just raise the level in the gym every single day. Just one of those guys you want in your locker room. So and obviously had that impact on the Bulls when they were at their best to You go back and look at this draft. I mean he was Kinda stolen it. Nine right look at the career. He's add compared to the four guys who were taken in front of him. He was such a Funky player that I think. Scouts has had a hard time totally getting their arms around Noah and white he was in the NBA Horford. It was pretty clear to project. Actually you know again. Another one of his teammates corey brewer. It was fairly clear how you would project him. I I remember at the time. One of the big challenges for scouts was Noah was unique I think he was unique in the NBA. In many ways of of what he did and what he delivered to a team. I think that there was concerns about whether he was going to be tough concerns about whether basketball was his ultimate passionate. And there's a number of little things that I think worked into the narrative about Noah that caused him to slide at just a little bit his career if he doesn't run into injuries the way that he does and and really shortens his curb career unfortunately does he ended up going higher than Conley. Maybe hire them Markelle soul. I can't I have a hard time getting there. I mean he had that one really good year in Chicago and he kinda got like he got trumped up a little too much like he was fourth in the MVP boating or something which you look back and it was like okay. That was we got a little carried away their right blower irrational exuberance there. Yeah so I think I think he could push for those three four spots but I I don't I don't know think white skin quite gets there? Okay we'll be back with pick six through ten on the next segment with John Hollinger. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA Big Board on the lockdown podcast network for an early morning breakfast. Burrito to a pepperoni pizza. While you watch the game sometimes you just need what you need delivered fast. And that's where post meets comes in if you're like me you're probably start thinking about what to eat for dinner while you're eating lunch. I love food. That's why I love using post meets. They deliver food from every restaurant. I can think of right to my door but posts. Mates doesn't just deliver burgers and Sushi. They actually make life easier with grocery delivery and whatever. I can think of delivery to convenience stores clothing stores You name it so no more trips to the store no more late night. Fast food runs. I don't even have to worry about where to grab lunch anymore. Just download post meets on IOS or ANDROID. Find Your favorites and get anything you want. 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Is the original professional grade handheld therapy device. That gives you a deep muscle tissue treatment. Releases tension improves. Mobility accelerates recovery. That's the big one 'cause I used to work out every now and then I'm now working out every day if not twice today because I'm killing time and Thera gun after every workout is making me ready to get back to the next workout. Thirty Day. Risk-free plus one hundred dollars off your device. It's a pretty great deal. Take advantage of it right now. Thera- gun dot com slash locked. Nba Thirty Day. Risk-free or your money back one hundred dollars off the device now is the time saragan dot com slash locked on NBA. And we're back with John Hollinger redrafting to two thousand seven NBA draft. John just selected. Yoki Noah to go to the Celtics last sonics. The Celtics traded that pick to the Sonics. I'm on the board. It's the Milwaukee Bucks. They took Ye Yang Lin. Yeah didn't work out for them now. Did Not didn't work out for them at all. Got To see him work out and in fact I think the infamous workout against a chair. Video is mine when I was when I was at Ucla as he was prepping for the draft. And so I know I'm guilty for wooing all of those teams to fall in love with him as he dominated a chair on a basketball court. Ucla there's a drop off here for sure and my opinion now in the draft. After after those five guys. We're done with the all-star certainly right but there's there's a lot of talent here and I'm Gonna. I'm GONNA select a guy that another guy that I think has been pretty underrated. His entire career played for Philadelphia and then Indiana Thaddeus young young out of Georgia Tech Yup absolutely end. And he's an interesting wing guy because he never really became that elite. Three point shooter that that you wanted him to be by. He brought so many other things to the table. The athleticism the energy he was a bluish type of Guy. Third or fourth. Best Guy on your team type of player that really has produced in had a terrific a terrific NBA career. In fact. I believe he's played more games. He has more games than any player in this draft. I buy buy a good some actually. Yeah yeah about sixty five games. Six game lead on half green on Jeff Green and then when you look at the minutes a he's got about three thousand only Kevin Durant really has has played more minutes than him. What do you think a young was this your pick as well at? Oh yeah has to be. Yeah I I think he's a he's a tier of one. You know you talk about the draft in tears. Sometimes there's a one player tear right here just you know is a good quality starter for big pretty big chunk of his career Even though he's a little between three and four of the game kind of moved in such a way that he was a permanent four in the in the tail end was I mean. It was really good. Even you know even with Indiana. Last year he was really good. He dropped off a little Chicago this year. But it's his thirteenth season. I mean he's. He's carved out a really nice career especially in this era for a guy who's a pretty shaky shooter. He's done pretty well for himself. He got a lot of criticism. He slipped to twelfth the draft in part because people just didn't Philly was ready. They thought after one year Georgia tech he was one of these guys that jumped the gun jumped into the draft. Too early needed more development time was getting hammered a little bit on his decision making and sled a little bit in the draft because of that but he was he as a prep he was super highly regarded and he really proved everybody wrong. I don't think an extra year to Georgia tech was going to have a big impact on on his career. One way or the other he got minutes right away he developed in the NBA and became what he was which wasn't really a whole lot different than what he was at Georgia Tech. Yeah Yeah Okay. Seventh pick in the draft seventh. It is the Minnesota Timberwolves Minnesota Timberwolves. They took corey brewer. They took corey brewer. Which at the time. I think everybody thought was a really really good. Pick a guy that was going to be a three type stopper in the NBA. Yeah I was a little skeptical on this pick because of the three part and you know. I B brewer. He played in the League twelve years but he was never really starting caliber claire. I'm going to go a little different here. Go for a guy who put together a pretty good career and is still playing and is a really positive locker room guy. Guy Teams love to have around. I'M GONNA go with Jared Dudley right here that actually makes a Lotta Sense. It also shows the drop off his draft. That took down here but go ahead. I liked deadly out of out of Boston. College deadly also a guy that We talk about just guys that people fall in love with because of their personalities and their their ability to work with the media the media is always loved working with Jared Dudley as teammates of loved him as well just the consummate role player on a team that because of because of who he was and the chemistry solid career. Really good glare was really. It was a good pick by Charlotte at twenty two and then they gave him to Phoenix next year. You're going to hear the word solid a lot. The Bob cats was there ever a worse name for a team at least in the modern era for the NBA. Than the Bob. Cats and I mean. Thunder has to be the only rival right. Yeah but at least even the thunder and it's yeah it's a place that gets thunder right like eat. Yeah Yeah Right I mean you talk a little bit about narcissism with owners but this guy got his name worked into the name of the team yeah and it was quickly wiped away terrible name deserve to die. It did yes. Eighth Pick in the draft. Let's just call them the Hornets. I'm going with Carl Landry O. K. Carl Andrea Purdue. This was a tough choice for me because I think there was another player at Jeff. Green is a guy that comes to mind who has had a longer career Played a lot more minutes but if you look at a guy that had impact in minutes that that he played and green plays about double that Yeah Landry was very very solid to good power for it in the League for the years that he was able to stay healthy and stay on the court and while I I definitely could have select green here. He's had a longer MBA career. I think that the years Landry was playing. He was more of an impact player than Jeff. Green is ever been Jeff. Green's to me one of the great conundrums of basketball players. He's yeah don't get a ton of minutes in the League for wondering what that impact is in. Those minutes is has been questionable. So I'M GONNA go with Carl. Landry at purdue here with thirty I I'm in the draft and and had several really good good years. Yeah I I like that. He was really nice pick by he got he got traded to Houston on draft. Night Got Traded. Huston draft night had a couple of good seasons their rookie year which was really good. And it was a major factor in that twenty game winning streak they had and this is a case of a guy a little bit older when he's drafted that maybe doesn't have the longer career that you get when you draft a freshman or whatever but was more of an instant impact guy in the league. Yeah absolutely absolutely okay. Good Carl Landry is off the board. I know you're disappointed. You get the bowl selection at number nine. They they can't get Noah he's off the off the board. Yeah I'M GONNA go with another player. Who was in that year's final four talent laden final four if I'd ever seen it was in Atlanta that year so I got to see it so you had the three Florida guys yet. The to Ohio state guys yet Jeff Green and then you had Aaron follow from Ucla and he. Is Mike. Pick earn a follow. Yeah Yeah Yep spell. Check as he was called Aaron with two ends flow two FS IN ONE L. What twenty-seventh Pistons at year ended up? Go into the nuggets In a in a kind of a mysterious trade because they kind of threw him overboard to create Cap Room for Ben Gordon Charlie Villanueva. Wasn't that the deal. I believe that was the same off season I I. I know. They didn't trade him for much and there was a cap angle to it in any way he became a you know a good starter for a few years there for the nuggets. Good shooter pretty. Decent defender in his prime had an eleven year career. Just a you know the type of player that's tough to find you know a three D. shooting guard and he gave you that during his prime years. Had a nice Kurt. Ucla to why does he slide. Twenty-seventh in the draft? Yeah I think there were some questions about just him like athletically. It was. You know is pretty unremarkable athlete right and I between or maybe undersized size for the position maybe yeah yeah yeah people always raved about his work ethic though especially Denver. Remember okay. That's the bowls and number nine. They get aired on the follow. I have the Kings at ten once again. One theme of our podcast. The kings didn't get it right and there's crazy is they. I believe they had an opportunity at one point because jobs no knows rookie year. Didn't go that well. They had an opportunity to trade. No for Hawes if I remember right well. If it's the Kings nathen right. That is not what they did. Yeah really tough to figure out where to go next with this pick. In my opinion this is where I'm going to select Jeff Green Outta Outta Georgetown Aric. Because I wasn't GonNa you're never gonNA. You're never gonNA take him. We can talk about that in a second a prospect that I always think was more tantalizing as what he might potentially be able to do than what he ever actually really did. Yeah on the court for a number of teams bounced around Quite a bit. I liked him a lot out of Georgetown. I was I thought he went about the right spot in the draft on draft night. But the more you dig into his career the more that it just feels like. There's a lot of a lot of empty calories there with Jeff Green. You sound like you hate the guy what's going on so the I think you you conceptualize it pretty well like the idea of him was always much better than the reality right and you know we traded for like he was wasn't a bad guy or anything but he just wasn't. There wasn't any one particular thing that he was great at. If you really boil it down like he wasn't he wasn't really a creator but it wasn't really a shooter and like he was okay at post up like that wasn't really his thing either and he wasn't that good defensively so like at the end of the day like what are you hanging your hat on. The one thing he did. Add going for him I will say is he'd never got her he was indestructible and so there is some value in just being able to fill rotation minutes you know. Eighty Games thirty minutes and not the guy's going to be there and I mean he definitely did that but in terms of kind of adding value beyond Beyond back and rotation guys like he he he never quite got there like you say he had. He had to pretty good years the second year at Oklahoma City. Yes and that's an and you thought he was going to turn the corner then and he just never did and they ended up trading in for Kendrick Perkins right at right and then later for Boston. Yeah it even has Austin Year was just kind of like it was a bad team and it was just like okay. Take whatever shot you want right. And he he he does goes up to taking almost five threes a game in the two thousand thirteen two thousand fourteen season Shooting thirty four percent in and he was he was also the guy that was tantalizing because on a given night Jeff Green could could put up numbers and look great and then disappear the next night. Yeah he stayed illegal a long long time yet but lately the last couple of years I think I think Utah who I think actually really thought he might be able to help them off off. The bench became super disappointed. Yeah I mean they just cut him. I mean they just got rid of them. Yeah but there was even at the age of thirty three UTAH. Who's trying to build a a championship contender team? They were all in this year. Thought the Jeff Green might be the guy that could come in and and help them off the bench and I wish they would have called me i. That was a that was a thirty game experiment before they. They dumped that yeah so from Scouting Perspective on scouts. Talk about motor and I think that was one of the key things that helped him back was just the motor. Just never ran that hot. Yeah just a little passive and on any given night. Maybe that changes okay. We'll be back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment which on Hollinger. You're listening to Chad. Ford's big board on the lockdown podcast network. Hi this is. David Locke C. of locked on podcast network. We know you love podcast and we all like to help the people especially hard hit by corona virus. That's why locked on participating in Potter Palooza Pot of Blues. It is a virtual podcast festival to raise money for covert relief. It goes live Saturday April twenty fifth. You can buy a ticket pay anything you want and get access to a special potter Palooza. Podcast feed with one hundred percent of the proceeds to benefit the organization. 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Find out what the button and listened to rejecting the screen. And we're back with John Hollander redrafting the two thousand seven draft. The kings were just on the board is selected Jeff Green for them at ten John Vehemently disagreed but the good news is and that means that his pick at eleven gets to fall him. You're on the clock. Atlanta Hawks are on the board. They took acie law. I've a feeling that is not going to be your pick no no AC acie law the fourth not just acie law the pickier. I think there are two different ways. You could go here but I think I got to go with kind of the longer solid career as a combo forward. I'm going to go with Wilson Chandler. Here was a rare good pick by the Knicks. Here at twenty three after his he left after his freshman year at. Depaul is that right. That's correct yeah never quite became an amazing player but just a good combo forward for a number of years. I gave you. Some positional flexibility was an okay shooter you know could guard forced could rebound complain the perimeter. Some like you know. Just give you a good solid rotation player to positions over the course of twelve years. So I think he's the best guy here and a guy that again I think because he was playing in New York there got there. There were some excitement about it. Isaiah Thomas pumping him up a little bit and just never really turned the corner. Yeah yeah the the way that the way that we we thought or hoped he would. Well that puts me back on the clock. I'm struggling here. Yep WE'RE WE'RE GETTING INTO BARREL-SCRAPING TERRITORY. Pretty quickly here so can i. Can I pick a guy that statistically POPs a little bit but a guy that really again you know the the minutes are low? The game played in their low. You know where I'm going right. Yeah Yeah Brandon right man. We were so excited when we signed brandon right because we thought he'd give us a really high High level backup five. Who could run and block shots? Do some of the things that Mark wasn't as able to do that. Maybe they could play together and I mean we had him for three years and he was never healthy. I think for more than two straight weeks all time and you think that was. The big issue for him was health. Yeah exactly it was a story of his career in a you know lots of people in the League lightman when he played he was really good but he just all couldn't stay on the court. Ten seasons he played four hundred twenty eight game. So that's forty two games a year and interestingly has wind shares per forty eight minutes number two in this entire draft behind Kevin Durant. Oh yeah I mean like his aunt analytics and stuff really good career? Pr Twenty out shot. Sixty point seven percent or his career. I mean a lot of those were dunks but he also had touched like short range touch with the left hand. Long arms again offensively. He was a weapon. And I think that again some of these players even even when you think about okay. They didn't play half. They pay half the minutes of some of these other guys. Their impact was so powerful knows minutes that they may trump guy that played twice as many games or twice as many minutes. Yeah and so. I'M GONNA go with Brandon right here to the sixers at twelve right so as back to me. Yeah New Orleans. Pelicans are on the board Chad. Taking Jillian right here. I don't know why I love Julian Right. I I fall in love irrationally with Kansas players and and this is a theme for me of falling in love with guys that I shouldn't fall in love with but he seemed really tools. -I like he can handle the ball. He could do a lot of different things that he was kind of a big point guard in a certain way. That's how he played in Kansas. And then but then the other way to look at it is. He didn't do anything. Good right he could sort of do a lot of things but there wasn't any really anything that he can hang his hat on in the NBA. And it's and it's harder for like he couldn't shoot was was the underlying thing and so that made everything else twice as hard exactly and I think I finally learned my lesson on this with prospects but I still do get tantalized by those guys that have so many tools have to let go of the fact that none of those tools are very good. Right right okay New Orleans. You're on the clock. I'M GONNA go with another short career guy here. I think he didn't play as many career minutes as he could have. 'cause he was always on awesome teams but Tiago s-splitter who only played seven years in the NBA. Partly because it took them a while to come over even though he was one of the best players in Europe I think it was three years after the spurs drafted him before he came over. But you know played a role in championship. Teams was a good two way center. Really physical tough guys like play with him. You know the patient space era was probably a little tough forum. But he could. He could still play in this day and age because he's so good around the basket And I think he's pretty clearly the choice here and this was a time when I was still driving the international bus at the time and I was very very up onto IAGO's splitter I thought he went too low in the draft and and clearly here being drafted thirteen day to twenty eight at the Spurs but his career was just really too short to make the impact that we'd all hope for from him but when he was on the court you're right he. He did make an impact on both ends of the floor. All right so I've got the last pick. It's the clippers. Here are some guys that I have to choose from Marko. Bela Nellie Ramon Sessions Rodney study. Yeah try it was very excited about him as a score. Corey brewer is still on the board big baby. Lynn Davis had a short career. But there was a few moments. Nick young took a lot of shots of the guys left on the board. Maybe took the most shots Rudy Fernandez. Early took the most irrational shots Fernandez. Who actually had a pretty good career when he played but only played in two hundred forty nine games? I'M GONNA go with Belen Ellie. Okay Yeah. It's a tough call there between him and stocky for me. Yeah that's interesting and the difference for me between Belen. Elian study is bellies ability to stretch the floor and sheet the basketball. Yeah and that's that's what tips it for me and and just the longer career thirteen years in the league in part because that's the one thing that Bell Anneli could consistently do in the league. I remember watching him in Italy and I mean he was a rockstar belly was in in in Italy at the time. And it you know about Bariani went number one. I think the year before but everybody in Italy. Love Bella Nellie yet and it just didn't you know he had a solid solid career might have been a superstar if he'd stayed in Europe his whole whole career Benin Mba. He was a solid shooter off the bench. Yeah I mean good value for the eighteenth pick right. Yeah it was good enough to later be traded for a first round pick that little little remembered Sacramento Charlotte deal a few years ago. Let's go to guys who didn't get selected. What high we talked about. Odin at the top of the show and so I think we can move on. Up Yon Leon. Yea what happened to this guy? Just didn't have any feel for five on five key. He looked like a monster and workouts. Like you know you pointed out but like he he did legitimately look good and like you'll still see clips games in China even now where he does awesome stuff. He's just like like the feel of playing five on five though like every one on one move was just like he was like it was like he was scripted in his head but he wasn't feeling the game at all did he forever destroy the market for Chinese players afterwards. Because there look there was a moment. Right you know starting starting with Yahoo and Wong busy where there was a feeling in the NBA. That China was going to be one of the pipelines. Yeah that was going to bring talent the NBA and then and ye was that guy and and people were very very excited about him in China and the US and screeching halt after that Really really interesting. I mean the I did a lot with international work at the time and the Africa and China where the two frontiers where there was just a very deep belief in the league that there was gonna be dozens and dozens of players from China and indirectly from Africa. That we're going to be in the league and neither has really panned out. Yeah yeah two. Other players worth mentioning here Rudy Fernandez only played four years in the league and then went back to Spain and he was he was a decent player he probably could have stayed in the league a lot longer if he wished and then another guy who was taken with the fifty eighth pick always thought he could play in the NBA chosen to stay in Greece his whole career Georgios protests. Just a good a good combo forward tough could shoot it enough I was. I was really intrigued to see what he would have done in the NBA. Well there was a couple of other guys that we didn't select what. Hi Corey Brewer. What happens with Corey Brewer? I just you know even in college nickname was the drunken dribbler right because he would like get get him when he tried to do stuff on the ball and he wasn't a good shooter so you know he he. He really needed to operate at a very high level. In the other categories to offset is low skill level. Another guy we by the way this is where we try to correct ourselves from laugh last. Podcast we forgot about Robert Covington. Yeah in two thousand thirteen. I think we would have drafted him. Oh yeah he went undrafted slipped. My mind slipped John's mine. Bad Robert COVINGTON are bad. You would have been in the lottery. Anthony Oliver probably the best then drafted player in the draft. Yeah I would say I would say there's a couple of guys who were drafted in this draft who were like okay and Anthony Tolerance. Probably you know roughly more or less than the best certainly stuck around the longest mercer to lead. Vich made at a higher peak. Gary Neal had a couple of good years are shout outs to the end drafted people after. We blew this overall given all the hype of the two thousand seven. Nba Draft. John was this. A good draft was okay. I mean you had five all stars from it right. Generational player you know. It's probably all right. I think it wasn't a deep draft and then six through ten though we're talking about at least one really legitimate starter on almost any team the league and a number of key role players not a bad draft if Odin had stayed healthy then it I think it deserves the height because owed and had the ability to be at the very least in all star if not a potential. Mvp Yes absolutely. You've been listening to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board on the locked on podcast network. We've been redrafting the two thousand seven. Nba draft with John. Hollinger will be back next week. Redrafting the two thousand eighteen draft the first draft. I wasn't able to cover because I was in ESPN quarantine. I'm excited to be able to talk about how I saw some of those players while it wasn't doing scouting three ESPN. We'll see you next week.

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Ep 18: NBA RE-DRAFT 2017

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board

1:07:28 hr | 4 months ago

Ep 18: NBA RE-DRAFT 2017

"The locked on podcast network your team every day. Hi This is David Locke. Ceo of the lockdown podcast network is just amazing to have Chad Ford back. Chad's always been one of my favorites talking the NBA draft. I wanted to make sure you know. What the lockdown podcast network is. We have a daily podcast for every NBA team. That's right. Your favorite team has a daily podcast. So when you're done listening to Chad Ford's MBA big board. Make sure you go find your favorite teams daily podcast on the lockdown podcast network. Enjoy Chat Moja. You're listening to Chad Ford's NBA. Big Board on the lockdown podcast network. Today's episode is brought to you by built bar built bars a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar but about Bar Dot Com. Use Promo Code locked on and you'll get ten dollars off your first order. I'm your host Chad Ford and my guest. Today is the athletic senior writer and host of the Holliger Duck and podcast on the lockdown podcast network. John Hollinger Aloha Chad. Well another redraft. This one should be a fun. One two thousand seventeen at still new enough that there can be a lot of debate about the trajectory of some of these players and this was a a draft that on the surface. There was a lot of questions about who is going to be the number one pick in the draft. This was one of those rare cases where the team had the number one pick in the draft traded out before the draft. That doesn't happen very often. the Celtics. The number one pick. They decided to move down. The number three in Philadelphia moved up in ended up with the number one. Pick in the draft and part of that was the confusion about some of this people like the prospects but knowing who the clearcut best prospect in the draft. I think was a real challenge. Which would you agree with that? Yeah I mean coming in. I think there were actually five different guys who were number one on. Somebody's board now but I mean cert- certainly there like there wasn't a true consensus. People liked marquel votes but some people like ball. Some people like tatum. Some people like Josh Jackson even and there were some Fox fans especially after is tournament game against Lonzo so it was really Spread out in terms of how people felt about the top of the board. It was so here's the deal we're going to go back and redraft the two thousand seventeen lottery based off of how players have played in the NBA in this particular case. Because it's only been a couple of years also be some projection going on as well are projecting them to continue to improve or not improve in the league. But let's let's walk you through the lottery as it went down on draft night in two thousand seventeen the sixers who had traded up a few days before to get the number one picnic draft selected. Markelle foltz out of Washington was not the consensus number one guy but probably was number one on most boards for NBA teams the Lakers took Ucla's Lonzo ball and number two. The Celtics took Jason Tatum out of Duke at number three. The sons drafted fourth to Josh Jackson out of Kansas. The Sacramento Kings. Here we are. This is the day kings fan gang at number five. Many great pick. Darren Fox out of Kentucky at six. The Orlando Magic took Jonathan Isaac Out of Florida State Minnesota drafted seven would end up trading. This pick to the Chicago Bulls Lauri Markkanen out of Arizona. Frank Ntilikina when eight to the Knicks. We'll talk about a little draft day draft week ruse with the Mavericks on this one. This little interesting side story there. Dallas drafted nine. That was part of the reason for the rouge they took Dennis Smith out of NC State Sacramento had the ten th pitcher draft looking to trade that pick to the Blazers and the blazers are going to select Zach Collins out of Gonzaga Malinche mock went eleven kentucky sharp shooter to the Charlotte Hornets at twelve. The Detroit Pistons selected. Luke Canard at a duke the thirteenth pick in the draft. The Denver Nuggets had it. They make a draft night trade to the Utah Jazz and the Jazz Select Donovan Mitchell. Out of Louisville and the fourteenth pick in the draft. The Miami Heat Bam a bio out of Kentucky. This was a this was a good draft is a good draft as I was going through and making my board for this chat. I had to leave out several good players from my top fourteen. I did as well and I had some hard decisions to make both at the top and in the middle about where to rank guys in this draft. I believe I get the first pick in the draft. All right. Congratulations it's The Philadelphia Seventy sixers. They're on the clock. They moved up in the draft. Clearly false was was the target with Ben Simmons on this team with Joel embiid on the team. The idea was to add a dynamic guard who could shoot the basketball who could play multiple positions. Because you knew that Ben Simmons was going to be the primary ball handler for Philadelphia and Foltz really seemed like the no brainer choice there though I will say that Brett Brown really loved Aaron Fox as well and there was quite a debate in the Sixers Front Office from the coaching staff who loved Fox especially for the defensive intensity that he brought to the game and just the sort of greediness of his game. The selection was faults. I don't think anybody could for have foreseen. What would happen next with MARKELLE FOLTZ IT? One of the strangest and oddest stories to come out of the draft in a in a really really long time. I'm not going to select him one. I'm going with Donovan Mitchell. Okay that surprised me K. I'm glad that we've got our first. Big Surprise of the day wins. Thirteen has been a bit of a franchise player for the jazz early on. I there is a number of ways you could go here. I mean Jason Tatum. Certainly in that conversation for the number one pick Bamako Bio could definitely be in that conversation for the number one pick. I believe that the makeup of Mitchell and what what he is becoming and the continued improvement of Mitchell. I know there was a little bit of it For for him before he started to pick things up again. I think that in the NBA. A guy that can get his own shot anywhere on. The court can play multiple positions in the back court and has the sort of competitive and intensity the Donovan Mitchell. Breen's to the game every night. If I'm going to try to build my franchise around a guy that I think can carry me down the road to me. It was a tough tough decision but Mitchell was my my guy at number one. What do you think about Donovan Mitchell? I mean certainly. He's an impressive player. Don't get me wrong. Like he's an all star like definitely definitely should be one of the top three spots on anyone's board coming from this draft. But I look at Jason Tatum and the ability to find wings with size who can shoot and play multiple positions the way he does and and defend well to that. That's really the holy grail. The hardest thing to fill. It's it's it's so hard to find guys like that. You imagine him if they had Simmons and EMBIID and tatum. You know as a knockdown shooter to to really help spread things out I. That was a real missed opportunity for the sixers for me to to not just walk walkway from this draft with tatum and be happy with that. I think either of these guys. Mitchell or tatum would've been a major major improvement for for Philadelphia and would have put them on a different trajectory than they ultimately have to go because it turns out that the the pick was botched with Foltz pre-draft John like before the draft actually happened was false number one on your board in Memphis or who was number one on your board before the draft took place. I actually can't even remember who is number one because we didn't spend a lot of time at the top of the board we. We had no picks entering this draft. And so where? We really focused. Our energy was toy. There was a chance that we're GONNA trade into the second round. We ended up trading in twice. We really focused on because it was pretty clear who the top guys were up until about the Mitchell Atta bio pics at thirteen fourteen and then it went and then it was just like a you know like one of those paints ladder grams like nobody knew it was going to happen. After that point so re we've really focused on the players below that point in ranking them and didn't spend a lot of time at the top of the draft. So I I I can't even remember what we had. I know I I remember actually did to be perfectly honest. I remember really liking Lonzo Ball. 'cause I'd seen him in person a couple of times and I thought he reminded me a lot of Jason Kidd hasn't quite gotten to that level as a pro. I was a full guy. He was number one on my board. I I really believed in him. He seemed again like a multi positional player who at Washington could really stroke the basketball high basketball. Iq because you have to the basket whole up his pull up was so good at Washington Nba fans have literally never seen his pull up. Jump shot because he almost immediately began having the shoulder and confidence. Problems never shot that way as a pro ever and even in Orlando where they've rebuilt a shot or whatever but he could just take a hard dribble and rise right up into a fifteen foot pull up and look pretty good and key combined that with you. You know athletic. He handle the ball like Jerusalem. Dwayne Wade comparisons from people are. They don't think it's quite that freaky athletically. But when when when he had that pull up game to complement as other stuff yeah they were talking about different talent level than what people have see. Yeah and don't think anyone was shocked that this guy was the number one pick the draft. There were teams that weren't as high on Ham. As you pointed out there were teams. That didn't having number one on the board I know in Boston brought him in for the workout. I don't think they were sold on Foltz and it was one of the reasons. They thought that they can move down a couple of spots in the draft. Because I think they were very confident. That philly was going to take foltz and that Lonzo ball was going to go to clear that that's where ball was going and and so they could get some assets in return. Let's just finish up on Mitchell. For a minute. He falls the thirteenth in the draft. And you as you said on any board right now he would be top three if not one or two. What did teams miss with Donovan Mitchell? I think he's actually gotten a lot better. Since Louisville I think teams teams were concerned about size. The two didn't really seem as a point guard which think prove correct and we're worried about a six to guy playing on the perimeter. I think he's gotten a lot better with with some subtle stuff where especially when it gets to the ramp like he was all to foot leaping Louisville and he he's gotten a lot better about Using one steps in Euro drips steps and finishing his drives That way and then just I mean his his athletic build his just as overall athletic ability. I think people underestimated that. And it's weird to you know Louisville Patino. He's had a lot of guys who were Kinda over achievers to get into the NBA. You're like Wow Patino made you look a lot better than you really were. And the Mitchell's one of the few guys who is kind of the opposite right. Who when he got to the NBA. You're like well like I didn't know you had all this and just to put it in perspective for fans who don't remember Mitchell was a late riser on the board the even get to thirteen. He really started rising in workouts and after the season where he was more in the kind of late twenties like you know kind of a first round maybe even a bubble first round guy before that that really start impressing workouts. He does bring a competitive intensity to his game. I remember the jazz telling me when they got him in the got him into training camp like they knew. Rookie training camp. They knew almost immediately that they'd made the right. The right decision. Just the way that he approached the game how he's approached things he's also just been an absolute model citizen for the jazz in many ways and and a guy that you know. It's tough for UTAH. They they're not a magnet for free agents. It's not the team that most players really desire at the top players play on. He seems really happy there. Yeah it's been. It's been a great situation for everyone. And what trade. Trey lyles and the rights to tyler light and for for the picked up K Mitchell Interesting story there. I'm sure you've heard this probably as well but the rumor was. Denver traded down because they liked Ojea Nobie and then Toronto ended up snagging him one pick of them and that's how they ended up with tither. Liden out of that draft. That clearly did not go well for the Doug. It's the the negative made a lot of great decisions and this was one of actually one of the rare special right draft is really been their biggest strength organizationally and this is the one time where they really kind of blew it. Okay well that's I've got. I've got Donovan Mitchell. Going to Philadelphia. If you'd had the number one pick. It would have been tatum. The Lakers are on the clock at two. Who Do they take surprise? I'm going to take Jason Tatum. I I just think he's. He's clearly the he's the bell of the ball like he's of of all the. There's so many good players in this draft but he to me is the most elite talent and again with it's such a separator at the at the two and the three when you have when you have high level to way talent can switch across positions that can make open shots and can be a creator. It's it's it gives you such a gap on the rest of the League when you have that and so to be at the most aboard position and to be probably the most talented player I think. He's he's clearly number one on my board here. Another guy that has incredible work ethic is always is a student of the game worked withdrew. Hanlin for for years and and one of those guys that you can see the skill level and the work on the skill is something that I think really is going to propel tatum. It's always interesting to a lot of draft fans talk about you know the the positional need and you know. Why did the Lakers go ball with? I mean there's a lot of reasons but one of them was they've they needed a point guard and they had Brandon Ingram at the time that they were developing at what point John in front office. When you have guys that we talk about tears sometimes and that's the way that I've I've thought about this in the draft. At what time do you take a guy? That's a positional need. Because I think ball for the Lakers was a positional need at point guard. Do you take that guy. Even if maybe there's a guy like tatum that may be the talent levels a little bit higher so to answer that one I think when when you're rebuilding almost never because it's just it's really just about the talent grab at that point because you know you're going to have to execute a lot of other things just to get to the point where you're good enough to worry about fit basically like like you have to get the talent part first and then you worry about fit and you make trades or whatever to approve on that but if you draft somebody that can't play you just you don't have anything right so getting getting the talent part right is by far the most important thing at any level of the draft but I think especially at the top or the differences tend to be bigger. It's more important like an sometimes when you get late first second round. You're you're really talking about the same tier you can think a little more about positional fit especially especially if you're in a situation like we were a couple of times where you have too many fives 'cause it's almost impossible to fit them in anywhere else on your team. You know if you have a couple small forwards well you can. You can do stuff the guy slide down guy slide up. You can shoehorn guys in a little more easily. I think that's a great way to look at things so again. Hindsight's twenty twenty at the time. Lonzo ball was very very high on many draft boards. That people were definitely labs. Lean him in the same tears tatum. It's clear the separation now it's easier to see. Are they really screwed up there? They took a point guard. When this major talent was on the board but at the time Lonzo ball was also considered a major major talent absolutely so it wasn't just that the Lakers passed on a guy for positional. Need they at the time they and many other people. I was also Alonzo Ball Fan. Thought that he was worthy of being the number two pick in the draft and you know all the other stuff around him as well. It seemed like an APP fit to be with the Lakers. Let's go to the Celtics now at three. Maybe they don't make this trade by the way if they had known that Philadelphia or the Lakers had zoned in on tatum. I think tatum was there guy and I think they were. As we said before pretty confident that can move down a couple of spots. Get Him so they they might not have been here. They might have been one and gotten tatum anyway. But let's say they're at three TATUM's off the board. I've got the pick I'm going with Bam Outta Bio out of Kentucky. Yeah really good. Pick for Miami at fourteen there in one of these ones that is a you know a bit of a head scratcher. He was very highly ranked in high school. He looks the part of of an NBA player all the way wait to Kentucky and really turned off. Nba Scouts at with there was a lot of Dwight. Howard comparisons to auto bayou even though he was smaller than Dwight Howard. But not necessarily favourable way right at that point Dwight Howard and and there was questions about how focused he was on the game whether he would do the dirty work he wasn't out there rebounding the way that that teams expected him to rebound and Kala. Perry was hard on him at Kentucky. His his freshman season his only season at Kentucky. You know there was a lot of question marks about him coming in you know. He ended up averaging thirteen points and eight rebounds a game which is which is really solid for a for a big and a freshman but just they weren't sure and I think teams. He slid for a lot of major questions about his game. And what he's going to become an he has been absolutely phenomenal for. Miami was an all star at the age of twenty two. I mean sixteen points a game. Ten and a half rebounds a game five assists the game. Where did that come from the ball handling passing? I think that was the biggest surprise. People thought of him as a rim runner dunker guy when he came out of Kentucky and they didn't really see that there was this whole other angle to his game. That was kind of kept under wraps it Kentucky. He's just one of these players and and did he develops some of that. You know is is a question like you know. He doubled his assist between his sophomore season. And and this third season With the heat so there's clearly development and also I think the heat learning a little bit more about how to use Bam The right way he he looks like he's going to have a monster. Nba Career. Yeah absolutely and you know will be you know the Lynch Pin of this Organization for a long long after the Butler era is over. I think they can look forward to another era after that where you have. Bam still in his twenties As kind of the centerpiece of the team. Even though he. I don't know if you'll ever be the leading scorer on the team. But he does so many other things well that he can be the best player on a good team so we've had three picks and the thirteenth and fourteenth pick in the draft of landed in the top. Three this again just show in. It's a good draft so this just shows you again. How unpredictable the draft. The draft can be. It's the fourth pick in the draft. The Phoenix Suns are on the board. They select Josh Jackson out of Kansas. Which some teams had as a potential number one pick in the draft very very highly ranked out of high school. A team that actually the celtics were very interested in as well but Josh action famously refused to come into Boston and do a workout with them in part because he was worried about positional fit and where his agent thought he would fit on. This team dodged a bullet. There Jackson's been a major disappointment. I'm a hundred percent positive. He will not be your pick and number four. No he will not Actually I'm going to go with a guy who kind of to me is is almost the new Mike Conley. He's a left hand point guard. Who's little small and might be the most underrated player in the League right now? Daryn Fox out of Kentucky. You compare him To like Donovan Mitchell. Who went number one in this exercise? Fox's a year and a half younger and had a better player efficiency rating this year. I think he he came on. Even as this year went on he. He kept getting better and improvement. And was improving was a big reason that Sacramento pulled itself back to the fringes of the playoff. Wait race in the West. As the year went on the shooting is still a question. Mark Thirty three point five percent from three his career but I just think the the overall game is so effective. He so good in transition. He's really solid defensively. He can get to his own shot and I still think. There's a ton of runway for him to get even better. A hundred percent with you on Fox really fell in love with his game at Kentucky. There are some glaring weaknesses in his game but his strengths really are so strong that they don't have the same impact that they might have another players. Of course you rob the Kings now taking him one spot earlier With and Fox and man could the sons used Aaron Fox right now. Oh my goodness. Can you imagine if they had selected him? I mean that would would've also stop them from trading the Anthony Melting so they could sign. Rubio like there's a whole house of cards that comes off that right so yeah the real missed opportunity for Phoenix there. We always talk about these missed opportunities. And what they can mean two franchises. We talked in our last draft about ashamed to be and and all the dominoes that that that played it from Memphis that really kept them from being title contender. I'm not sure that you can say exactly the same thing about Fox but this is a different team and we feel differently about the suns right now. If the vast point guard in they are a force to be reckoned with a major up and coming player instead. He's on the Sacramento. Kings and Josh Jackson is no longer with the sons. Okay the fifth pick of the draft the Sacramento Kings. There's some morning and Sacramento. They finally got a great draft pick and he goes one spot ahead of them now and I think that there is a a drop off now. Right though. Those to me are the four clear guys All of them look like they are going to be absolute studs in the NBA. For really long time. There's still some really good players on the board but I think there's like a tier that drops off now. I completely great sorry Sacramento. I'm going with John Collins at five right. Yeah Yeah you know Collins. Interestingly wake forest their teams were all over the place on him ends up going nineteen in the in the in the draft and teams questioned what he was going to be common the NBA. He was he was a young player he was he was eighteen wake. He was really young. Who just rapidly developed as as a sophomore had a really amazing sophomore season awake nineteen points a gain almost ten rebounds a game at it quite developed. You know the jumper the way that we've seen him be able to develop at in the NBA was wasn't really at a threat from beyond the three point line yet. But the analytic analytic numbers for John Collins. I believe were very very high coming into this draft right so his his his his stats wake. Were ridiculous. The thing that really hurt him in with evaluators was at the defensive end just defending pick and roll overall awareness lack of lower body strength. There were a lot of concerns whether he would just be complete toast at the defense of that and certainly not a good defensive player right now but he's good enough that you live with it because he's so productive offensively is that rare combination of guy who can be a rim runner or a three point threat. So you can plug him into multiple places in your offense in different sets and and really gets tricky to try and stop everything he's doing. And that's why I think like that Collins trae young pick and roll and then you know it's going to be interested. Now you get clink cappella involved with that will probably be even more perimeter. But he's up to thirty six point nine career from three so forty percent from three last season. Yeah like it's not. It's not inconceivable that he can be good in in that role especially as young as he still is and he's still improving shooter and he's eighty percent free. Throw shooter season. Yeah yeah he should. He shot the ball really well as you guys know I live in Atlanta. I go to a lot of hawks games. I mean his his development as a perimeter guy. And it really evolved. Even as the year went on as he got more confident from three has been one of the nice stories for the Hawks this year. He might be the guy that could jump up into that other tier with those other four players because the development just continues to happen for him and as you say with the changing landscape in Atlanta. He may take another step. Yeah and we just have to see. I think the defense question is still there a little bit. What can he get to the defensive end? Can he be a guy that you really want to leave in at the end of the game at the at the five position? Or do you need another guy around to have his back. I think that's going to be one of the big questions for him in terms of his overall value proposition. Okay John. I'm getting hungry. Our sponsor is built bar. They sent me this entire box of built bar bars and had been going through them on the podcast. I also eat them a lot when I'm running. Because they're great protein bars so John. What do you think the day I got salted Caramel toffee Almond Peanut? Butter Brownie? Who Man. I'm a big salted Caramel Fan. Actually anything that's assaulted Carmel. And I'm I'm a sucker. Yeah all right. I'm salted Caramel Fan as well. And this is the the crazy thing about these bars. John their their protein bars but they taste like candy bars. And so they're they're soft. You know a lot of protein bars chalky or or heart is hard is Iraq or they taste like they're good for you where the bill bar tastes like. It's bad for you but it's actually really good for you and this is like the crazy thing. There's only one hundred calories in this It's low sugar. But you've got fifteen grams of protein in these in these bars as well and one of the things I love is just a plethora of flavors that you can pick from really anything that you want. If you're not into nuts they have not free ones if you you are into nuts. There's a lot of nut ones as well and you can actually go on their website and you can build essentially your own box however you want to build. It could be all the same flavor you could have fifteen different flavors if you want and the. They're so gooey that it's actually kind of hard to talk talk through. They kind of gets a little stuck in your teeth there because it's like opposite of what you're normally getting With these bars. I've actually I sincerely mean as I. I really love these and also love them after runs and they're just a great quick hit of energy and all those calories that you burned reading. Don't just get back entered into your system but you get that protein to recover from your workout and so we're going to get back to the two thousand seventeen redraft but I love our listeners to go to built bar DOT COM use. Promo code locked on and you'll get ten dollars off your first order. Use Promo Code locked on for TEN DOLLARS OFF AT BILLBOARD DOT com. Okay John. We're back redrafting the two thousand seventeen NBA draft. Donovan Mitchell Jason Tatum. Bamut a bio. Dr And Fox. John Collins offering the board. Were back with pick six through ten year on the clock. Orlando Magic to Jonathan. Isaac a swing for the fences type of prospect in the draft. They knew was raw. We knew this guy was going to take longer to develop than other prospects. But there is a ton of upside there with Isaac that that the magic were interested in his career so far hasn't really panned out the way. I think that they had hoped I thought he really got a lot better this year and before he hurt his knee he was really on his way I think he's going to be an absolute force at the defensive end between the three and four. I think is offense as good enough and was getting better this year. The shot is still a little bit of Mar- the pairing with him and Aaron. Gordon doesn't work. I think they need to move off of that and bring in another guy the forward spot. Who's a true floorspace spacer? And that will open more things up for Isaac. But I think Isaac is so good defensively and especially as you project ahead When he's able to fill out a little more that he can be such a force at that and that even if he's only average offensively his overall value will be huge So I I really like him. I think I'm really high as long term potential. I like that pick and I would make it again. Okay Jonathan Isaac. You're right. He really did start to come along this season. After two seasons that were a bit questionable. About how this was going to pan out but you kind of knew that the magic knew that when they drafted him that this was not going to be an immediate returned type of prospect. I had him to slightly lower on my board He was number eight on mine. But okay we'll take him at six. I've got the Bulls at seven. I'm GonNa take another guy got off the little bit of Iraqi star but think had a terrific year this year In in New Orleans. I'm going with Lonzo Ball. Yeah like that at seven. You know. It's tough to be drafted by the Lakers. Expectations are out of control. It didn't help the hype machine that his father was creating for. Lonzo ball and all the and all the expectations heaped on him and he comes in you know his rookie year. And and I you know one of the things I like to point out to people's I think the hardest transition from college to the pros at the point guard position absolute and he. He was okay. I I don't think he was terribly averaged. Seventy seven seven assists the game. He shot the ball really poorly In Los Angeles I think that was the the biggest concern but this year New Orleans. I think he got a new lease on life. I love him on this team. I think he's GonNa love plane. Was I N Williamson? He averaged a career high in points. The cyst were right there. That and the big thing and I think the thing that we're all hoping for because it opens up so much Lonzo's game is that that shooting three point shooting continues to Trajan make that upward trajectory went to thirty eight percent this year on six and a half attempted threes per game. That's that's the area where you want to continue to see Lonzo improve what's really interesting is. He's a terrible free throw shooter. And so maybe this is one where it doesn't totally correlate the way that it typically does. Yeah that's GonNa be interesting to track what happens with this free throw. Because when he got to the Pelicans they started rebuilding his shot and he had that funky released whereas way over on the left side of his body even though he's a right handed player and the Pelicans pulled over toward the middle of his body and it. It looks a lot better. It's a lot easier for him to get into it off the dribble now and I think they're the plan was to continue working on it more during the off season now look. I don't know how those plans have gone given the the situation In the league in this country but that that shot is going to be a big thing for him because I think ultimately his role is going to be as the number two number three guy right. He's going to be the guy who's off the ball because he's not really a half court pick and roll operator as good as he is in transition leading the break and everything he needs somebody else to kind of run the show when they get to to the half court but if he can be that floor spacing weapon around a player like that plus he's such a good passer and offers you so many other pluses with his ability to rebound and read the game and defend. Do all those other things that I think you're talking about a really high value proposition. Yeah I really like his future in the League. I think that the expectations were so ridiculously high. It was quick. People were quick to label him as a bust in the league. And I think he's going to be far from it. I think he's going to be an impact player for the next decade Nba Yeah I think I think you're right. I mean certainly a lot at worst a- long-term term starter for New Orleans. The New York Knicks are on the clock at eight. They they like Frank Ntilikina. I don't think the like him so much anymore. Now probably recommend doing that one again. Although it's it's it's weird. What a pass. The crowd gave him you like like usually they kill everybody. Who is the fans there? You know who who disappoint some and for some reason. He's like the opposite he like the mascot. But I digress. I'm going to go with. Og had an Obie who came into that draft You know he's coming off. A knee injury at Indiana and teams. Were worried that he would just be a total disaster on offense even though they liked the defense the athleticism the size credit to the raptors. Because they have really developed him as a three point shooter. Thirty eight percent from three this year And he's kind of good enough to to do some things as a secondary operator and then you live with that because he's such a good defender and finding those kinds of players at the wing against the small forwards hard position to fill with quality and at his size. You know you can go from two to four. He can guard those different positions. You can play a lot of switchable type schemes with him Which translates to the playoffs? So I I think he's the clear pick right here. One little draft intrigue happened. I don't know maybe it was about a week before the draft. And you'll never know because the knicks would never admit to this but the Dallas Mavericks tried to put a massive smokescreen out that they were taking I till Akina at eight and they even went so far as to hire his international coach to be their Summer League coach. Oh that they were going to take him at nine. You know that that yeah that they were GonNa take him at nine. Yeah and the reputation. The Dallas has four international scouting with Tony. Ron Zony Donnie Nelson. I don't really think there's been a team in the league. That has done. More scouting has more experience over there. I think it like lifted lifted his stock up to a certain extent. Right will if the mavs are in love with him. Maybe you know. Maybe there's something there i. They wanted Dennis Smith all along. This was this was one of these classic ruses that was out there to throw teams off the who they were after now. In retrospect they wanted Dennis Smith should should have invested more in domestic scouting Yes just an interesting scenario. That sort of came out of that but I wonder how much it affected the Knicks. I wonder if that was the thing that that tilted them towards frank it turns out to be a as you point out A very very disappointing Pick for the Knicks and they would have been much much better off with. Og also my selection at eight with the mavs at nine. I am going to give them Jared Allen who went twenty second. Yeah he dropped you know he had. He had a weird year at Texas whereas tough to evaluate him that freshman year because he just he just wasn't he wasn't super bowl and some of these rim runner types. It's it's really tough to get a feel for them when they play in the college game and they're not doing that and and you really have to go off some other things to try to try to figure out what they're gonna be like as a pro but he's good he's starting center. I mean he blocked shots. He rebound gets yeah rebounds stunks at the Rim of shooter doesn't do any doesn't really try to do anything he can't do. I know the nets have experienced experimented. A little with him shooting corner threes at Kinda hoping they stop But he's I mean if when he stays in his lane he's really good he is and I think you're exactly right you know watching him at the Hoop Summit I actually think he played fairly well at the Hoop Summit and I think times there was thinking that he was going to. Maybe you know crack the lottery. The lottery in the draft slides on draft night ends up sliding all the way back up to nine To to the mavs and in our redraft and again we're not talking about an all star here but a good athletic mobile starting center in the League for two years. I think the other thing that hurt him in this strap. There were a lot of good fives in this draft and not every team needed a five. And and it's it's hard to draft five when you don't have room for them because there's just nowhere else for them to go so when you look when you look at some of the other bigs. I think a lot of them did ended up getting pushed down even some guys who might not necessarily end up picking our redraft like Tony. Bradley ended up as the eighth pick. Like he's a good player. He probably shouldn't have been twenty eight right so I think that Jared Allen I think that happened a little bit even with Bam at a Bio John Collins as you get further up this might for both positional the again. This could be partly the mistakes that you're talking about about drafting positional needed. Also just the values you've talked about the previously that teams are even putting on the center position now as opposed to other positions in the in the draft. The Blazers had the tenth pick in the draft through trade. I'm they took Zach Collins. Outta Gonzaga is that your selection that ten It's it's not it's not GonNa be I I'm going to go with a guy who had kind of a tough year but I still believe in him long-term and that's all Lauri Markkanen Who which ICAGO this year you know. He had some hip injuries. He didn't shoot the ball as well. As you really expect you. What will you watch him? Shoot the ball. It's such a sweet release Only shot thirty four percent from three this year for the bowls these at thirty five point six for his career and I still. That's still amazes me that he's not a forty percent guy because I mean that released just months before I yeah. Of course any concerns about what happened to him this year. I mean you look at his sophomore season and where he averaged eighteen points. A game got up to nine rebounds a game and this season was. I A bit of a disappointment. All the way around regressed really in every category. Yeah he did It it wasn't a great overall situation in Chicago this year but I also I also wonder if he was more injured than any lead on because he just never seemed right even from the opening game. Okay that's the toothpick the Blazers Lauri Markkanen. 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Nba To start your free seven-day trial and you'll save twenty five percent off but only when you sign up on blankets dot com slash NBA. And now we're back with picks eleven through fourteen on the next segment with John Hollinger. We are regretting two thousand seventeen. Nba Draft Charlotte Hornets or on the clock. They Take Malik monk a fire score that when he's hot he is red hot and when he is cold he is ice cold. He was that way at Kentucky he is proven to be that way in the NBA. You don't hear anything from link monk and then there's a boom. There's a huge game That that he has especially very challenging for the Hornets who actually liked Donovan Mitchell. Who were deciding between Donovan? Mitchell and Malik monk at eleven those were the two guys that were the last two guys on their board. They obviously made the wrong call. I think they took me monk because they thought of the shooting was going to be the thing that was going to elevate him and it turns out. He's a career thirty two percent three point. Shoot I never never in a million years would have imagined that he would struggle this much shooting. I think that's a legitimate. Of whatever else you think about is defense and his positional fit in and passing or whatever like the shooting was the thing that was supposed to be an absolute locked guarantee. And that's the thing that hasn't happened. I'M GONNA go out on a limb here. Maybe it's not a lamb. I don't know we'll see your reaction to this. This is where I think I would still draft Markelle Fultz. I think that's about right. I as the next guy my board actually obviously his first couple of seasons in the League have been a disaster. A strange strange combination of a shoulder injury confidence. Howie hurt his shoulder did he. Try TO RE make shooting forum about what happened to faults. I don't think the sixers or anybody at the end of the day totally understood what exactly the issue was with him and was funny. It was right from the word. Go so grisly story for you. We played Philly in focuses. I exhibition game as a pro and I mean it was obvious right from then that something was very wrong because he got he got his butt kicked and he shot a couple airballs. It was bad and we're were all kind of look at each other like what? Wait a minute what happened in this guy like Ed. Obviously it was. The mystery just grew the more that you're went on all the finger pointing that went on. Was this some trainers fault that. They tried to remake his shot. How how badly was his shoulder injured? What in what way did that contribute to that? Just the mystery just an absolute disaster for the sixers and wild. You know you can. Ding them for delillo Kuffour and and maybe some of the other draft prospects that they took. It's really hard to point the finger at Philadelphian and explain to me how they necessarily got this wrong from everything that you scouted at Washington. That was just not the player that showed up for them. Yeah absolutely I mean. This one just came just bunk them over the head out of left field and you know that happens sometimes with injuries or whatever talking to some of our trainers in in Memphis like that is the thing that can happen where you get a muscle in your shoulder impinging on a nerve and then weird things happen and basically so it's it. It wasn't completely unheard of to them even though it's obviously uncommon. So you know it's just I just honestly. I just talked us up too bad luck more than were than any kind of plane that they this is a young man who averaged twenty three points a game at Washington. Five five and a half rebounds a game six assists a game shot forty one percent from three just completely forgot how to shoot the basketball still shows that craftiness getting to the basket Finishing at the basket had a an encouraging year. I think is probably the best way if this to say it at Orlando was not didn't look anything like the number one pick in the draft or even like a top five pick in the draft but comparatively to the last two years this year. Twelve points a game five assists a game. I think that's a really important number for him. He is shooting numbers. Went up from the field is three point. Shooting is still a mass but I I still think that the player is there and if he can get turned around. I think it was actually super helpful for him to get out of Philadelphia. All those expectations go to a low expectation. Setting in Orlando where they didn't have to give up much to get him and he could just work on his game and develop I. If I'm the magic I feel good about this deal right now and I think that there's a lot of room for growth here. Yeah I agree with you. I think he's still shows those flashes where he does things that most NBA players can't do you know with ball handling or passing or just little athletic finishes. I mean he's a guard who shot sixty five percent at the rim this year like that. That doesn't happen normally so I still think there's a lot of upside here even if the shot never totally comes around. Okay you're the Pistons you're at twelve. You took Luke Kennard over Donovan Mitchell and again shooting shooting shooting. Was I think again the reason that he gets selected over Donovan Mitchell? Who Do you select the twelve I'm going to go little out of left field here and go with Derek whyte Who again was probably better. His second year than this past season. I think the backboard in San Antonio got maybe a little crowded. This year was a little harder for him to really played all his strengths than he did in the playoff series against Denver the year before we look at it overall like you still had a pretty good year. He's a good defensive. Player supernatural instincts as a shot blocker for a guard. Even though he's not like a great overall athlete Really good foul shooter. Perimeter shooter Just overall like a good Combo Guard who who's capable of starting at either position a little older players twenty three when he came into the League but I still think he has a nice runway here to be productive flair for very long time. I think that's a great great selection for him and I think you're right. I think bringing John Murray back as especially you know where all of that where he fits and all that affected some of this as well but I actually think that's a really defensive serviceable pick at twelve for the Pistons K. Utah Jazz are on the board. Or maybe it's the Denver Nuggets. Maybe the jazz don't move up in the draft and Trade Trey lyles. Probably don't actually they. They were locked in on Donovan Mitchell. He had a great workout for them. The was desperate need. They desperately needed a guy who could just go out and create his own shot and as the pair with Rudy and so there was a lot of things the line for the jazz that. I'm not sure that I'm sure that player doesn't exist now at thirteen on the board. I'm going to give them a hometown. Pick IF IT'S UTAH. I'M GONNA GIVE CAL here and John helped me understand which Kyle Kuzma is the Kyle Kuzma. That's going to be in the league. Is that the twenty two and twenty three year old and his sophomore year averaged eighteen points. A game is it. The Lebron accused this year. Who Struggled average twelve point game shot under thirty percent from three when one of his supposed attributes is that he's a stretch stretch guy In the League that this is where it was hard for me to play same right now based off of last season. He probably doesn't make his list. But because of those I those strong I. Two seasons at the Lakers. Yeah so here's as as one of As one of our coaches put it to me before we played them once This guy is thirsty. I think his playing style doesn't necessarily fit net well with with Lebron ad where it fits better is on a team that needs more of a pure score than add someone who could just come in and get a bunch of buckets whether it's whether it's starting were coming off the bench He just has a really good knack even though he's not a great outside shooter. His intense speed is quickness. His is his ability to score in different ways around. The basket is all really helpful in the right situation. He's a good rebounder defensively. He needs to get better which is interesting because when we scouted and we thought we thought he'd be we thought he'd be pretty decent on this end just because of his size and he seemed pretty quick and he's actually underwhelmed that that end. I think he just needs to kind of a little too focused on scoring but re really effective scoring around the basket. Especially if you can get him on the move and in transition I still think he has a really high Was Word I'm looking for us as I don't know if ceilings the right word but it can be really effective in a certain role Where you're asking to score whether it's as sixth man I think I think he's an ideal six man but on a lot of teams. You kind of need him to be in the starting lineup but again he's he's like one of those guys a little bit you know we can play three and four so he gives you some positional flexibility too. I just think there's a lot of places where he fits that it works better than it does in la. The pelicans really tried hard to get him in they. Anthony Davis Trade and he was the guy that the Lakers held back on several. Not We're not trading KUZMA which is really interesting to me. Because he you know I. I think Josh Heart could have fit the things that they need done there with. Lebron ad better than Guzman does now. Maybe a little bit of a misstep by the Lakers or maybe kuzma becomes a a chip down the road that argue that he could add more trade value. Coming ahead yeah. I think that's a fair point. It's going to be really interesting because he's going to be up for an extension after this season what. We wear that goes. What are you give him? It's a tough call okay. The Miami Heat Fourteen. They drafted Bam amazing. Pick is not here. Who Do you take it fourteen? Well I gotta go home or on this one. I'm going to take from the University of Oregon in Mississauga Canada. Dillon how did I know the diller bricks was going to make this list? Is this truly a homer pick? Is this really your fourteenth guy and your board visit. This is my number fourteen guy. I think I think three guards are hard to find. I think he's shown he's one of those guys. Okay Dillon Brooks Fourteen John. Hollinger takes victory lap. There was a few other guys that could if there are some. We could've talked about here right. Yeah so I mean you look. There's actually a lot of good players that we did not take When you look at Zach Collins Josh Heart Luke Kennard Monty Morris Thomas Bryant Tony Bradley. Even Harry Giles. Who had pretty good second half of this season? Josh Jackson actually came back to life In those games before the before the shutdown I mean he's a guy who would have been a plausible selection as well. I think still so. There are a lot of different ways. You could go here all right. Let's talk about a few of the guys that went high. That didn't pan out. Let's do some CSI work here. Josh Jackson well again. You can't be drafted Kansas guys. I think that's the lesson good to know. If we've learned one thing from these redrafts I think he was in a bad situation in Phoenix and wasn't did didn't didn't maybe have the Attributes off the court to be able to handle it And I think that really hurt him. Do you think that there's a maturity level? Now that starting to kick in. I think you can certainly make that case. I mean talking to some of the People in Memphis. That have been around him. I mean I think I think they're feeling and hoping you know that. They're they're optimistic on that front. Now there's a whole decision that has to be made about whether to retain him that goes goes beyond just that but I think there's definitely some optimism that getting out of that situation in Phoenix and maybe a little more structured environment with the G. League team in Memphis for so much of this year. that that could really help him. There was a lot to like about escaping Kansas Very versatile defended the basketball. Could handle the ball a little bit. Actually though is shot was a bit ugly to watch shot. Thirty eight percent from three and that Kansas is feel his free throw percentage was probably the canary in the coalmine. That tells you that that was going to be sustainable but it was really known as a competitor as a winner. It'll be interesting to see if he can turn his career around. I haven't completely given up. Hope on him but certainly as the number four pick in the draft and the guy that some teams looked at as potential number one pick in the draft. He's been a massive disappointment. Frank Ntilikina yeah just like. He's he's a guy who's probably gonna be able to stay in the league just because of his defense and he can shoot it. Okay but offense he just never had that gear to really be a creator and I think that was why him as a lottery. Pick was always a little bit of a stretch. It was the defensive end that he was earning that reputation. But a guy that's career thirty six percent Field goal percentage for his career and thirty one percent. Three point percentage just really can't get the ball in the basket. Yeah I mean he's just an okay jump shooter and then again just doesn't have the jets to get anything near the basket. So he's relying on the jump shooting and he's not nearly good enough outside shooter to depend on that for a living. Dennis Smith. There were a lot of question if you remember Chad coming into that season. Hughes talked about as potential number one pick right and he had that crazy. Good game at Duke in the middle of the year and people were still looking at him as maybe being in that top tier and then really started sliding when people started doing their background on him. There was a knee injury in his pass. That people are concerned about People questioned why. Nc State wasn't better. Why wasn't impacting the team? That much and and question his shot which I think proved to be accurate and And that's that's where we are. He's actually I mean he was frank. Neale Aquinas backup this year and despite that the talent and being able to score the basketball which which he clearly had his rookie season the average fifteen points a game because he can put the ball in the basket but Kenny. Do it at a high percentage. Can he do it efficiently and can do it without killing your team with turnovers and port decision. Making on shots was always the question and the answer so far has been know. Exactly he just. He never turned the corner in that respect and got better which is interesting because a lot rookie guards you put him out there. And and that happens the first twenty thirty forty games but then the second half of the season they recognize things they turned the corner and and it starts really trending upward. Just never happened with Dennis Smith and there was a lot of people in New York when they got him as part of the the trade that got them. The Got Dallas KRISTAPS Porzingis. That actually thought he was going to be the better fit at point guard. He was the guy that was gonna come in and really be able to light it up at the garden. It's just been a major major disappointment and briefly for his time in New York. You know fourteen point seven points game after that trade there was a few signs of that. But it's it just fell off a cliff this year that Collins. He's all right like we we. We could've taken. I think Portland wishes. They took the other collins you know. He's he had a tough year this year. We didn't really get to see him I think I think he's you know they kind of pushed him into into being the starting four. I think he's probably more of a five and I think still remains to be seen. Exactly what his level is. He's really start or if he's more just a rotation guy like yeah he's he's all right like we we could just as easily taken minute is not in this exercise. Malinche monk. We talked a little bit about it. The shock the absolute shock with me. Monk is how poorly he shot the basketball from three. The not see that coming was a forty percent three point shooter at Kentucky With Unlimited Range and is free throw percentage eighty two percent. Said that you know that wasn't the issue shot twenty eight percent from three this year in. Charlotte. Yeah just shocking right. I mean I I really thought he could shoot a Kentucky and then so I'm floored by what's shooting the athleticism the aggressiveness. You can get I. He slipped this because of the lack of size. And what position does he play and he defend his shot selection. There's a number of reasons that justified him slipping this low. But it's just I think that's the right word is shocking at how poorly. He's ended up shooting the basketball and the league and without that there's just not a lot of reason to play Malik Monk Not at all Luke Kennard another guy we could just as easily taken like. He had some pretty good moments. This year is a forty percent. Three point shooter. He shown some ability to create in pick and roll as a secondary Guy Probably never going to be much of a defender but he definitely has value in a place in the league. Is He a long-term starter. I think he's still question. That a little and obviously Detroit. You know the to all-stars got picked right after him so that will always smart a little for them. Yeah he he actually had a really. He only played in twenty eight Games for Detroit this year but sixteen points a game shot forty percent from three shot fifty percent from the field and averaged four assists. A game yes. There's a little bit of an underrated part of his game. Billy to handle the ball and and pass the ball which was what attracted some teams to him at this point in the draft. Maybe he's GonNa turn it around a little bit. Yeah you know and like I. I think he's a good offensive player and is is he more of a six man lead creator in that role or is he good enough to to be a starter and Kenny. Hold up enough to be a starter and then the other thing you worry about. A little now is the that gave them so much trouble this year. Bad Bad Times with knees in Detroit all right well that has been our redraft of the two thousand seventeen NBA draft. We will be back next week. Redrafting the two thousand and six going way back two thousand six NBA draft. Were Andre a Bariani? What number one to the raptors have a feeling he won't go number one and Adam Morrison Bill Simmons? All Time Favorite College Basketball Player went number three to Charlotte. Lot to talk about. Wow and the guy like tyrus Thomas wet for the Chicago. Also now good at is and Sheldon Williams. Went five minutes. This is a disastrous that. Wow Wow lamarcus. Audrey was. Good is a disastrous top five. We're going to. We're going to have to stretch a little bit of two thousand six draft. Wow Oh I'm looking at. Wow there are some names and Mr at all my God well. Wow well how survivor go way way back in two thousand six you've listened to Chat Ford's NBA Big Board of a lockdown podcast network.

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Ja Morant Mania and the NCAA Tournament Through an NBA Draft Lens | The Corner 3

The NBA Show

43:18 min | 1 year ago

Ja Morant Mania and the NCAA Tournament Through an NBA Draft Lens | The Corner 3

"Hey, guys. Welcome to the ring your podcast network, March madness here and to help you with your bracket. Make sure you listen to one shiny podcast with Marc Titus and Tate. Frazier. Also, be sure to check out the ringers YouTube channel to watch Tate and Titus built their bracket and break down every matchup on their selection show as well as Roger Sherman who offers his three Cinderella pigs for the NCAA tournament you can find those at YouTube dot com slash the ringer. Welcome to the NBA show. This is the corner. Three my name's Kevin O'Connor and over in Los Angeles swinger associate editor Chow missing you, buddy. I man I've missed it'd be an a California looking forward to being back. I'm home Massachusetts right now. But I am happy to have that Dallas from his one week eight Springer staff writer Jonathan sharks. What's up guys science talk? March madness were requires during this Cincinnati Iowa games. We can't have made Jaren Cumberland takes we're going to get. Yeah. This will be a deep podcast. It's gonna be a mostly draft class edition of the corner. Three though at the end of the podcast. We will be discussing the Western Conference playoffs because there's four teams with the same record entering the same day. It'll be wild end of the season in the NBA. But first we're gonna talk about John rant. He was a star of Thursday's NCAA tournament games. Jami Renta's the top point guard prospects in the twenty nineteen draft. He dominated Murray state's eighty three sixty four victory over Marquette by taking a lead nine shots at seventeen point sixteen assists, eleven rebounds, and he did have seven turnovers over his thirty nine minutes. But then he you published an article yesterday where you asked well, how will John Moran fair under the brightest lights of his career in Thursday night? He clearly passed his first test on his bright lights. But did we learn anything new about Jami, rants, I think in general for the general public who have just kind of watched drama rant kind of often the perimeter? You. Sportscenter highlights these massive dunks these incredibly athletic plays. They basically just realized that this guy is a legit point guard. He's like, you know, he puts so much zip on his passes. He has touch on his passes. You know, he commands the floor. He commands a certain presence. And we're not just talking about, you know, a guy who has to be built into a point guard. We're talking about a point guard who happens to be very very athletic. Yeah. I think with Josh Charles Barkley said it, maybe best at halftime. He he said a lot of players shoot themselves into games Josh seem to pass himself into that game. He he's an elite passer at the college level and granted seven turnovers, the sixteen assistant he had charge. He had some just ridiculous off the dribble assist or accurate passes off the dribble that not a lot of point cars seemed to have the ability to have. Yeah. He was just having fun out there that was kind of like, I guess, that's obvious. But it was like watching a guy in total command. So he got in that game. He saw Marquette. He. Took like two possessions. Oh, I turn whatever I want. These guys can't guard me, they're basically like Swiss cheese on the federal go ever I want and like he made it he has not turnovers. But I think it's his thing all years like when he knows he has a game in hand. Like, I think the average is like ten or eleven assists in like five turnovers like he'll make the crazy pass because he can do it because why not at that level joss said after the game. Well, he he rated his performance a three point five out of five because he had those two turnovers and a couple of them were because his team-mates teammates weren't ready for passes. A some of them were because he was being careless. He had a behind the back pass that was very unnecessary. But for the most part like, I think watching job rant reminds me so much of trae young last year it Oklahoma. They're they're different style players with their scoring styles. But trae young also displayed that ability just to see the Florida high level and past guys open off the gerbil. I think that that's an elite ability for John Mirant where a lot of talk will be about as athletic schism that the big donkey head of a step back three. That he had but the passing is has best skill and that's going to keep them on the floor early in his career. Yeah. I think what the step back three was kind. What stood out to me? When that I feel like I'm back game. He was very comfortable. And as was bring like Marquette really couldn't ball ball hawk him too much. He kinda got where everyone to go on the floor, and he would just comfortably making threes. And I think that's the difference for him and trae young, obviously. And I think for John that's the big thing going forward. Given his slider frames. He's got to become a really really good three point shooter. And we could make though shots consistently. There's no good hand be right. And just watching the game yesterday and the the kinds of passes. He was making this is kind of like a sorta deep cut for for our generation. But I was kind of reminded of Rod Strickland like a really nice way of STAN brand, Danny nineties. Yeah. Just a historically like underrated point guard who like if you watch him play he kind of looks a bit more like hiree, but the types of passes that he made like I think John Morad that's kind of like the player he can be at the next level. I'm you know, I'm not completely sold on. His kind of athleticism in tight quarters. I still wanna see him, you know, against, you know, this Florida state defense, which is enormous and athletic, and they can kind of shrink the floor and force him to to make plays in tight spaces. Whereas Marquette he was basically just running wild. You know to your point about this Florida state defense he'll face on Saturday. I don't think we necessarily learn anything new about Mirant and yesterday's game. I it was just him kind of bursting onto the scene for people. That are watching, you know, watching these draft prospects or watching college basketball for the first time all year, and that's cool. Right. I think it's better if there's never a bad time to to to realize that there's going to be another great point guard coming into the league. But with jive, I do think like you said sharks earlier the scoring ability is gonna be what makes him either just good point guard or a great point guard because he did add that step back three. And that showed what he could be. But he still has a really slow shooting release and transitioning it's a his shot. Off the dribble isn't a strength of his. So I think in this matchup against Florida state. He's probably gonna have to get buckets. He's they're probably not going to win that game with him shooting only nine shots and with John Moran. That's going to be the question moving forward. So with him. Do you think right now at this stage? John does he need to make changes to his mechanics, or is it more or less just proving that he can do it? Because oftentimes guys don't make these tweaks of their mechanics. I mean, it's hard to say because he really hasn't faced that much high level competition this year he's mostly had as way against like sub-standard players. So it'll be really fun to watch for two state game. And I think for those so much college basketball like Marquette, Florida state are kinda like diametrically opposed teams so Marquette they pretty much crude only shooters, they're not terribly athletic. They don't play much defense for a states the exact opposite all Lert Hamilton does recruit tall athletic fast players. They are always very skilled. But every guy and his team is usually at MBA size. MBA ability and a lot of times they're players are bigger NBA players because not that skill. There's like freakishly large athletic someone that their lineup. They go like six four six five six seven six eight seven four this team is freaking huge. So it'll be fun to watch jog, and it's like guys with athletic ability. I think somebody curious I'm looking at this lineup. And like the average height is like six eight and the average weight is like two twenty five like, oh, yeah, they got a six eight to sixty like power for it's incredible. There's a member of different guys jaaz probably at the score against Terrence Mann. They're senior star of the team. There's going to be a handful of different matchups Ajaz gonna have to prove himself against. I think that's primarily the main thing. I'm looking for is how does he? How does he adapted when he's facing these different types of players, especially someone like Terrence Mann? And I think if you look at it his at the rim numbers Arnold grades you'd expect forgotten ability. So valuable to watch to. Yeah, I just I the comparisons to John wall, and Russell Westbrook feel a little overblown in that sense. Because he just doesn't really have the physical makeup like he's just he's a he's kind of a skinnier leaner frame. And so I don't know if he's necessarily going to be able to bulk up like those two and also like look Russ's athem numbers aren't very good either. And so it's not always about athleticism and a lot of it is drawing fouls too. Right. Yeah. So with James harden and part of what makes him an elite finishers ability to draw to absorb contact finish through contact or just draw fouls. And like that's the one separator between someone like him in carrier Ving. So if you're looking purely at field goal percentage. At the rim. That is not always the greatest indicator of what a guy is true ability is that should be true shot attempts near the ram, which would include John Fowles. And that's where John Maranto the course of time. I think with his leaner frame is going to have to a learn how to finish, you know, with finesse with crafty offhand, finishes, and he can't finish the both hands. But continuing to master that skill but also as at stronger just the ability to absorb contact because as you said Danny like he is an explosive leaper off two feet. But not yet is he that guy in traffic all the time is going to dunk over guys. Right. Yeah. That's the thing that I'm most interested in because I feel like that is, you know, it's it's definitely more of a functional athleticism at the next level. Like sure anyone can you know, run down the court and jump off two feet and dunk at the NBA level like Derrick Williams was a great example. He looked like, you know, LeBron on certain lob attempts, but you put them in. You know, you put him in traffic, and he looks like a baby deer. And so that's kind of a separator in terms of true elite athleticism in my in my view, anti as you're saying that he's Bill more like Darren, FOX, right? I don't think he has FOX's like pure top speed. Like, he's probably like a maybe like ninety percent of FOX's speeder eighty five percent. And I think too we'll see in this game is like his defense. He doesn't play much defense, and he might have to in this one. And I want to see a Florida tries to attack him on. I'd be curious to that. 'cause they have the guard's really go at him terms of size, at least it's like with a rant. He's probably gonna end up depending on what what the draft order is the second or third player taken this drafts. And I like him a lot as a prospect. I think he's going to be a really good point guard. He's he's a great prospects. But I'm not sure he'll be a great player with without the defense as you said charges. He's not he's not very active on the floor is hidden. He was not always the primary defender against Marcus Howard. And Thursday's game. Like, you would have liked. To have seen and that matchup, but it's understandable. Why because he's so lean because you needs save editor for the offensive offense before, but he will have to defend on Saturday. But still decides that it gets back to that jumper, and I think that is going to be the great separator, and what he is like without a jumper. Let's say he's an average shooter as he has been in his two years. What is his floor and ceiling would that average shot sharks? I mean without a grey jumper, busy, Jeff Teague. Like, maybe a better passing. Jeff Teague who I'm. Britain started at sixty one team went to conference finals a few times. Good though. I wear. Yeah. It's it's really hard to come up with a comparison for my. I've I've been it took me a really long time to even get to the whole Rod Strickland thing. But that was even just more looking at his passing ability. There just aren't that many point guards, you can think of with his build who have gone on to become like huge success stories when the ones who are going to be elite shooters, right? I think the in the NBA draft guide. We have the skinny John wall comparison, I think John wall was not nearly as good of a passer as Miranda's right now coming out of college. I think that comparison for what wall, but came is is maybe fair for what wall is today. A granted. He's he's injured. But when wall is healthy, I think maybe that's the the lane from Iran is a really good passing point guard handful too many turnovers. Great in the open. In floor. But that lack of a jumper could be a limitation half court situations because as great as John wall is the half court for him has been a hurdle in the NBA especially in the playoffs for the wizards. So I still think that that's what will be from a rant. How much does he improve shop because right now he had that great step back like you mentioned sharks looking very comfortable on the floor. But with his low release and the slower Trent released transitioning into the shot off the dribble. I think he's a long way away from being a reliable shooter off the dribble, which is which is really the differentiator between elite point guards, great point guards or or good point guards and great point cards. Well, now that I think about you some looking like, the NBA standings and the teams atop drafts or piji two point guard. You got the bulls and the sons so that means he's going to be starting next to Levin or Devon Booker. So he barrier play. Some defense is finished. What is the best fit for him of those of those teams most likely to land granted like this year is tough what the draft lottery odds for what it's worth like if you're looking at different odds like there's a twenty percent chance. The pelicans land atop four pick. So it could be a wide number of teams. But are there are there any best fits that stand out for you looking for drama, rants, I think I mean, I think Chicago makes a lot of sense in terms of look he's a guy who loves feeding the ball. And the bulls just have a lot of players who need the ball fed to them. I like Memphis actually as kind of like a Iran, right? Yeah. Of course, you bring up Dhillon. Right. Of course. The Memphis fit as well. Yeah. The Memphis fit. I think New Orleans is intriguing. If you're pairing him next Jrue holiday having it with a defensive oriented player in the back core is gonna be critical. I like the Lakers fit as well. If they were to keep their player that seems I don't see LeBron having much time for that. I don't either car that's not gonna happen. Fear radically. You know, if Jeff Van Gundy got his wish I'm just saying. If you're moving on at some point, which is not going to happen and should not happen. But if you're building a young core moving forward around the Braun and for the post LeBron era. I do think that it'd be intriguing fit with verandahs and Lonzo ball. I'm not there's not enough shooting though. It's it's not perfect. I don't think there is a perfect fit with him on. I will say chic- Chicago. I mean, they won't play much defense. But that'd be hacking fun team to watch. If you go, Jon Levin porter. Lori carter. That's that. Seems so score a lot of points, really fast, and like Levin, Lori and porter all makes sense off the ball. They'll congressman John really. Well, that's three knockdown shooter Giacomo off Carter screen back could be that's something. I don't know what the ceiling that team. That's a pretty high floor. Right. And I know that Suns fans are just like they just want a point guard. I it's been what like four or five years since they had too many point guards. And now they just they're just craving for one so badly. So I. But yeah, exactly. But they're look for anything at this point. I think that fit works with Devon Devon Booker needs to improve a lot defensively. And so at Mirant in that situation, but Moran does not a bad off ball spot up shooter and Devon Booker. That's the one skill that has sort of been put to the the backside right right now. Because of the fact that he's been asked to run so much pick and roll. But he's a great off offscreen shooter coming off dribble. Handoff. So I I would like the Mirant Booker back court provided booker's able to elevate his defense. When when there's less of a demand on him on the offensive end, man. But like Booker covering for Mirant on defense. Your sounds like oh my God. That's a losing formula. Like that provides a lot of work in that sentence. Give. I know that's the thing. That's the thing though. It's like there's no perfect fit for him. I mean the team that drafts I'm moving forward. It's got the shuffled some pieces around. But that's okay. Because that's usually happens with so much roster turnover in the NBA. Do you guys? Any other thoughts on John Marin? We wanna hit for on. I mean, do you guys have any like serious thoughts on his defensive potential because like I don't he just doesn't play any defense right now. So like, I it's so hard to kind of judge him based on what he's doing. Now. It's hard to seeming very switchable down the road. That's like the I mean, that's like the overriding concern even beyond everything else. He's just not that big even if he starts playing with more effort like he doesn't play with much effort now. But even if that starts with the limited frame, I'm not sure he's somebody who can switch either. He somebody that teams are going to attack right? There are plenty of other games happening yesterday as well. So we're going to hit on the prospects you need to watch on Saturday from the winning teams. And then we're going to also hit some guys that we wish we could see more of from the teams that lost yesterday. I'll start off with the guy that randomly popped up on tons of highlight reels on Twitter on sportscenter Haussa highlights everywhere else. Fletcher McGee Flach from Wofford Fletcher McGee. Shoot the lights out broke the NC double a career three point record on Thursday and on Saturday. He's going to have the chance to add more. But I am wondering Danny do you see McGee as an NBA prospect or anything that he can show on Saturday's game against Kentucky to show that he has an NBA player. Just hit more threes, man. Just hit as many threes as you can. I I don't know if there's anything like we're not we're not here to be talking about, you know, his his rebounding or defensive potential like you have you have one skill. And you you, you know, you're born with this gift just keep going if you can hit, you know, another game where you're like hitting like eight threes in a night. I think that that might be enough to to get them, you know, more than enough summer league looks. I mean, if PJ's off if PJ Washington offer Kentucky, maybe they're vulnerable. I mean, if he can be Kentucky who cares like he's a legend for life. I think that's why to me he's a must watch on Saturday because e whether or not he's an NBA player. Just tuned into watch this guy stroke threes, at the college level, it is a pleasure to watch. And if Lawford does beat Kentucky, it'll probably be because McGee put on an epic shooting display. So I'm looking forward to seeing that Danny who do you got true MO KiKi from Auburn kind of a so he's a second year player. Six eight to thirty ish. You. At his his frame. And you think oh this guy kind of looks like marquees, Chris. But he's kind of like the inverse marquees Chris in that his feel for the game is really high level, but his athleticism is kind of like average to below average. He's he's more of a lateral guy than a vertical guy for sure. And he he's a guy who could hit threes. He's very comfortable. Dribbling the ball. He can really shoot it. He could really shoot it. And you just has really quick hands. Really? He's really smart on defense. He had two great games against Tennessee. Earlier this year both wins by Auburn, by the way, one for the the SEC title. I think against Dietrich Lawson of Kansas who's he's going to be facing in the second round. You're looking at kind of a similar type of player to grant Williams. And that he's a he's a mature body who can kind of do everything on the floor. And so I kind kinda want see what he looks like both on offense and defense against fun. Fun game because Kansas kinda goes big and small so they'll play loss at the force. Some the move off into the five and playing against wings. So we're gonna get a C like all types of aquis versatility nece one. Yeah. And would you view this player as I first round pick, Danny he can definitely play himself into it. I think I would actually put him in the low first round for myself. Yeah. Charge sued. He got 'im shutout. Nauseated LSU shoes are really fun team to watch. So I was watching that yell game. And they have so many guys MBA kind of tools, and like man, I said we'll Wade's dropping bags like he's a real squad. Like, if we'll wait can't coach anymore. I let them be a scout for me to see talent. And then this one you've got Nausori lead. He's like six ten to forty. He can play inside and outside pretty good shooter. He can put it on the floor. I think he's got a ton of talent. He hasn't been talked about much this year. But this could be a good game for him to really kinda shine against an MBA frontcourt, at least in the physical ability, and Jalen Smith and Bruno Fernando, I'm I'm just really interested in now's read he's kind of in the mold of what I in vision the future Greg Monroe's of the league looking like like a guy you could bring off the bench who's a big body, but just super skilled and kind of do a little bit of everything on the floor. But he's probably going to have some defensive limitations. But you're okay with that off the bench. Yeah. I've been thinking Bobby Portis that kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely if I'm somebody listening to this podcast. And I'm like who are these guys I've never heard of them before. But they sound like players. The NBA could use today. I would be thinking to myself. Why is everybody calling this draft class extremely weak? So I guess I'm curious do you guys think that maybe this draft is little bit stronger in terms of role player talent than maybe the perceived as so far I feel like because there's so much talk about this this draft class being week after the first two or three picks teams are teams and players and fans are all kind of thinking more about you know, role and thinking a lot more about specific talents. That can be added to a team. I don't know if it's any better in terms of role player talent. It's just I feel like we're more cognizant of it. I think to people like, we're a very star driven culture. Right. When people say draft is stronger week. There's talking about the stars are talking about right? And I think after Zayn there's no surefire star. But to me like most draughts only have two or three stars anyways. So. If you already got one star locked in if you have one or two guide expectations just kind of being a strong draft wouldn't stunned me, definitely. And I think that also kind of circle allows us to circle back job Mirant to. Whereas like the conversation is largely based off can this guy be a superstar? But we're like, you know, maybe he's just ended up being a slightly better version of Jeff Teague, which is fine. That's a that's not a bad result at all. But I think the focus so much on what the top guys become. But when reality there are some strong role players to be found in the middle of the first frown in the late first round. I think like we talked about last week Danny somebody like Brian Clark from Gonzaga. I'm excited to see him at the NBA level. Even somebody like Masirah little from North Carolina who has been horrible all season long. I think if your team drafting like toll thirteenth or even false further than that. It's worth gambling someone who was an elite high school prospect for we hatch Moore also from zag there's a handful of nice players that are worth gambling on. In the middle of the first round, whether you can feel confident can at least be solid role player for you. Absolutely. I think two people tend to look at it more at the one and done. So if it's a one and done classes week, they draft considered weak by that might not be the right way to look at it. There might be as you were saying there might have upperclassmen with a late bloomer. You cannot have become even better in the NBA enough. The one done guys aren't as strong in speaking about a upperclassman non a lot of prospects lost on Thursdays game. So I guess I'll pass to you John. I who was one prospect on a losing team that you wish you could see more of before the NBA drafts. Combine yet, this one was tough. Because like remember last year we lost trae young and eight and in day one it was like crazy wild and Esther on Mike. I don't know. I'm looking at these teams most the guys won the guy for me as I I'll go with Cody Martin. I think the the Martin twins Nevada that every disappointing season. They has seen lashed a top ten teams and come together. And I think calebs got. Most of the attention. He's a better score by voice like Cody is more versatile wing. He is six seven guy. He was the mountain west offensive player of the year two years ago. And he's he runs kinda point forward for them. And this year, he's actually shot pretty well. He that was one of those not included marmot who's a bad shooter. I think that's a guy. Second round might be an interesting fire. Right. Who do you get any? I got Dylan wind ller from a big game. He had a huge game thirty five points in a loss to Maryland. I mean, it was heartbreaking loss at the end. But the guy construct the ball. I mean, he he hit what seven eight threes last night. And he kind of has a little bit of everything in terms of the offensive repertoire like he pulled off a pitch perfect. James harden step back look in a little bit. Like Joe angles with the with the left hand, and the kind of lanky kind of weird Lucy shot form, he's he's an incredible like cutter knows exactly. When to cut knows how to use his body for to absorb contact and all that kind of get around the rim. I'm really kind of fascinated by this guy. I think he has enough athleticism to make it in the NBA. And he he has all of the scoring talent. He's like six eight to two hundred pounds just for reference. It's funny. You say how good it cutter is like Belmont ran their play at the end of the game from tobacco. Yeah. That was kinda crazy. Yeah. I thought that was going to work for him. But unfortunately, did not move. Onto the games happening on Friday. Just we've talked a lot about Duke already. We've talked ton about Zay on. But Jonathan you wrote about duke's other guys cameras and RJ Barrett. And what we need to see from them moving forward in the tournament. They face North Dakota state today on Friday. What are you looking for depending on how long dukes torment run goes from camera technology Barra to have more confidence than as draft prospects moving forward? Yeah. The kind of the thrust the piece was like for all talk Zahn. And as turnament I feel like Zion. This point is pretty much unknown commodity. We know is do Duke novas going to do. He's going to do it. It isn't get us numbers. I think for me if Dusen a win a championship it'll come into our Jan Cam. And they've been like the furthest thing from like known commodities been so up and down all season can those guy. I think it's just simple stuff for them. Can they take care of the basketball? Not turn it over. Can they lock in on defense? Can they make open shots? Like, that's all you have to do your plan. The guys. Zay on. But honestly, those guys haven't been all the while this year. So I want to see them kind of mall roles committed to the fundamental stuff to win games. How far do you think cameras could fall? Oh, man. I mean, look if you're just not convinced like if you just stripped him of all of his like archetypal NBA wing frame and all of that. And you and you just look at his numbers, and you just like. Play. Yeah. What? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Like he makes so many mistakes he can't finish around the rim. It's it's really hard to unless you are just convinced that his body will make it. So that he can translate regardless. I don't know, man. Like, can you can you fly past ten no way? Right. I don't know. I mean, we saw miles Turner slide to eleven couple years ago because of the running issue that he had those one of the reasons why after an underwhelming season at Texas with a stronger draft though. So the camera shot, I I don't see him signing out of the top ten. Let's he just totally falls flat on his face on the torment because he hasn't been bad defensively by any means, I just I just think to your point in the article chargers, I really like to see him be an elite defender, it'd be nice if you could hit some spot jumpers. So it'd be nice if he didn't fall what he's driving to the rim. Like part of me wonders with cameras like how much of how much the draft Twitter. Sphere and everybody else everything else hanging onto him as a as a top-five prospect, how much does it have to do with the fact that he just entered college as a top prospect for instead of viewing him for what he is in the sturdy game sample or is it that like maybe this thirty three game sample at Duke. It's is this being weighed too much against what he did in high school, which was really really high level basketball's a scorer. Here's the thing. I think with Cam I could see a stock falling for now after a bad tournament. Like in my mind. I'm already seeing some game. We're has like four fouls. Offensive fouls. Plays like, fifteen minutes, and like three points, and they lose. That's I've seen in my mind right now. But I feel like when it gets those workouts. He gets in your gym. And you watch him, shh. He's a guy who watched him shoot and warm ups like my God this man is incredible. And like if he gets them gym hits like a bunch of threes is moving really, well, I can see a GM talking them something the cameras after they work them out. I could see him really moving stock back after a bad tournament. Okay. And all so, right. So right when you're. Saying all of that. I have a perfect comparison for Cam radish contagious caldwell-pope could be well he's way bigger though. He's way bigger. But what you're what you just described? I remember watching contagious pope in a I think it was a draft express video or all he was doing was draining threes. And then they did like this warm-up where he he just like ran in circles and caught alley. Oops. And just did that for like fifteen straight reps. He just ran around caught alley. Oops. And I was like this guy's my guy. Yeah. Cambone empty Jamal star for sure he's an empty Jim superstar. And that's the fear. Right. He could be a big Casey p or a big big Big, Ben macklemore. Where like with Ben macklemore on the twenty thirteen draft. I really liked him. I viewed him somebody who'd be better with NBA spacing and over the course of time. His hand off Cousy. Oh my goodness. It's see it Yuccas this IQ ish. Yeah. It's scary. I love Cameron shedding the season. I felt that Cam had a chance to be the number one prospect on my board. It's just like there's no way obviously with Zairean emerging. But I don't think there's any chance he'll be number two with this point. Because so much of his game. Is theoretical. And I guess I just moving forward in the tournament. I don't feel even confident that he's going to show it during dukes run it. And that's just how far he's fallen in my eyes. But I still in this year's draft class with his age and his body and his length and the way his game looks I still think he'll end up like in my top five. I don't see him falling much further than that. Because of all the tools. Yeah. Yeah. How much did we watch Paul George fresh as a freshman in college? You know, there's I'm just saying like, I'm not saying he'll be Paul George, but there's a long way for him to improve his ball handling and masters shooting. When he does have good tools. I'm really intrigued by the out dig into my bag right now Virginia is a team that you know, has kind of become a weird NBA factory over the past couple. You know, pass what seven years now generating like really high level role players and one role player that I'm looking forward to seeing tiger Rome. Six five combo guard kind of lean lean frame. He's an excellent shooter. He's an actual intruder from spot-ups. He's an excellent shooter off movement. And I think he has a real chance at really increasing his draft stock maybe becoming a late first rounder against Gardner Webb who happens to be one of the worst teams at you know. They basically allow a ton of threes every single game they allow twenty-seven attempts per game and Virginia's basically unbeatable when they average at least twenty four, and so yeah, I think this this could be one of those like, oh, yeah. This guy's definitely NBA prospect. Could he got sharks are going to give a shout out my guy, Ethan half? So one of the NCAA tournament. Anything is like just a wide variety of players. You're going to see and I'm not sure even happened play in the NBA. He's a six ten point center incredibly skilled great post game. But he's not super athlete, dick. He can't really shoot it all save his life. But man is he a fun player to watch Ethan hap? That's the kind of guy is a college legend. He's awesome. He's really fun to watch. I don't know what snap in the NBA. But I'm gonna watch them plan. Yeah. You gotta shut out this this compu- got though. Yeah. He's like a weird joking. Noah Kyle Anderson mismatch of players. I don't even know how to describe either. He's just he's a he's an oddball for sure is there any hope for him as an NBA player Charkes. I think I think playmaking five off the bench. Maybe I mean, he can really pass the ball. I think there's a chance. I don't know if you're gonna defend anyone though on a good team. So so you're saying he's like, a non athlete Mason Plumlee, like a triple double machine label, though way more skilled that Mason, he can dribble and stuff. I mean, he's got skills. Who who do you think gets a triple double first, Mason, Plumlee or even have? Ethan have Judy. Friday's games. I'm looking forward to watch entailing Horton Tucker, a freshman guard slash wing slabs big. I'm not sure exactly what he is play playing for Iowa State against Ohio states twenty-seventh ranked defense, horned Tucker's. Interesting guys just turned eighteen in November doesn't really have a position Danny in your article on Thursday you described him as I dream for Mike, Dan, Tony led offense. Yeah. Like, he. I can imagine him playing five spot five minutes for for Dan. Tony like, he has what he's so he's six four really stout base. But he has like a seven one wingspan. And so, yeah, why not why not try them out for a couple minutes like in the PJ Tucker role. They got a fun team in. There are fun to watch. I think Horton Tucker's a guy in this year's draft class where would so much and certainty especially in the lottery, I do wonder if in workouts, he somebody that could right? Is where in college shot selection is definitely an issue for him. He throws up far too, many wild floaters and off-balance layups around the rim. His decision making is in great. But I do wonder if in workouts, he somebody that can show that he's a really really good shooter off the catch. He could show an improved shot of off the dribble. And maybe you know, when he's training for the draft, his athleticism proves even more. I do wonder if he me that could arise from like a a nice mid first-round pick into a higher draft lottery pick. Is there any is there any hope of that happening in the tournament sharks? Or is that something you think would have to happen and workouts? See I kind of wish she goes back to school. He's such a raw player right now. Like the tools are there. But I get why gopro weaker draft at man. I as a guy could usually your experience in college, though. Whatever right. Yeah. I mean, I if him and tires Halliburton stay another year. That's that's a pretty dangerous team for Iowa State before we move on to talk about the NBA Western Conference playoff race. Just one. To tell you that on Wednesday. The early version of our twenty nineteen NBA draft guide went up as fifteen in. My scattering reports spin soon enough, we're going to be adding rankings from me, Danny and John will have commentary from Danny and John and Roger Sherman and a bunch of others like Mark Titus, and perhaps take Frazier as well. So check that out at NBA draft dot the ringer dot com. Anyway, the NBA is still playing games. We we got a couple of weeks ago and entering Friday. We have four teams in the Western Conference all tied at forty two and thirty the thunder Spurs, jazz and clippers all at forty two and thirty entering the weekend. The any this race is going to be wild down the stretch. How do you see shaking out, dude? I I don't even know the jazz lost yesterday. And suddenly the thunder who were at the eight moved up to the five. And so like, honestly, I I'm just waiting for it to end. I have not good at math. I do not wanna do any of these calculations. Just just give me the final slate, and I'll be happy with it. I do think entering this weekend. It would not surprise me. At all. If we see the Spurs in that seven or eight spot because they have a tough schedule against the rockets and the Celtics whereas the jazz got the bulls on Saturday, the clippers have the Cavs and the Knicks, I think San Antonio neck. Okay. So you're going to have a lot harder of the weekend, which brings us to the NBA watch tonight on Friday night. The thunder are facing Toronto. And the second game of a home in home. That's an NBA TV at seven thirty eastern. What's wrong with okay? See John loses a four straight games. Is there any reason for concern with them down the final stretch? What you have the stats for Paul George here before the shoulder and after the shoulder injury. I mean, he was their best player all season. And they need the best. I Nepal George. So it makes me wonder if maybe he should be resting some of these games. I'd rather have him one hundred percent then have him. You know, find this injury all to the playoffs yet. Yeah. With Paul George before the shoulder injury. He was shooting forty percent from three eighty four percent from the free throw line and forty percents on mid-range shots after the shoulder injury. He shooting only thirty three percent from three seventy nine percent from the free throw line and seventy and thirty two percent from mid range. So the numbers are down. It's a small sample size. But I am a little bit concerned. I think this could be more than just a cold streak after just as ridiculous shooting this play that he was putting on prior to that. There is one instance in a game. I believe last week where he was running through a screening hit on that left shoulder, and he just basically stopped in place, and you know, held his shoulder, and you can tell something's up. He's not totally healthy out there. And I remember a couple years ago on jayjay Renick's podcast either. When he was or you know, maybe the pod he did before with the vertical. I remember him talking to Kyle Korver. And he said like anytime you have a minor injury. Whether it's to your feet or your to your upper body. It can impact your shot. And I wonder if that's what's happening right now. With Paul George were the members down across the board from every zone every range right concerning. They need him. Yeah. The about two with okay see is like they have so few guys who shoot like he's like one of their home the guys who shoots the ball. So if he's not shooting. Well, they must force basing it all at that point. Yeah. And with Paul George, I mean, the thing about the funder in the past, you know, three or so years is, oh, you know, everything goes through Westbrook. Every Westbrook is the reason why everything works will this year. Paul George is taken up that mantle and when he's kind of out of sorts when he can't be, you know, an effective two way player and just basically be their best player on both sides of the floor. Then the system collapses that that's kind of why they're defensive their defense has kind of fallen often. And it's also part of playing one of the hardest record or one of the hardest remaining schedules in the league. But you know. Yeah. This Paul George thing is is truly concerning heading into the most important stretch of the season for them. I'm looking forward to seeing on the other side of Toronto can make a push for that one seat down the final stretch of the regular season. If you wanna watch every game subscribed to NBA league pass on NBA dot com or your local cable or satellite provider. Danny you mentioned. Okay. So he's really difficult scheduled down the stretch for me. That's what I keep looking at for all of these teams. Whether it's Golden State versus Denver up top in the Western Conference. Denver has a much harder remaining schedule than Golden State. So I think Golden State has a far better chance at grabbing that one seed which means a team that falls that eight seed probably it probably isn't going to have that long of a playoff run. So every game down this final structures must watch. And with okay, see their defense has not been elite. Like it was early in the season. Paul George has not been the MVP candidate central turning from the shoulder injury. And I'm not sure how long Russell Westbrook can sustain the. Oh shooting and I do wonder if they're falling. What is which team will be the one that rises? Is there any team that you've seen in recent weeks or months that you view as the teen is gonna push up for that five Seve's? We'll Cassie I'm looking at the standings right now. And there's a possibility Houston falls to four. Can you imagine being in that six seven range, and you have Golden State and Houston on the other side of the bracket. And those teams I've played a second round have a bloodbath of a series and on your sit around like watching conference finals like that two three six seven. That's the money range right now to get into that brush side of the bracket. And so close knows what's going to happen. But to me, it's like what they're talking about schedule the team that gets into that bracket could have a lot of room to run Rosh their actual quality of their team. Are you guys buying San Antonio's improved defense over recent months? I mean, just just as recently as like a month ago. It was already back in shambles. Like, it is kind of hard to hard to tell. But. I mean, the thing about the Spurs is that you after a you these players get familiar with each other and the help the trust is there, and they're not they're not operating with any like elite defensive talent. It's all just effort, and and a lot of reading the situation a lot of help defense. So I mean, if they can keep that up, it's fine. But it's just like they're not really working with a high ceiling there. So here's Smith San Antonio. If you look at their schedule on that rodeo road trip their defense collapse, right because they're all road games. And now they've even been better because they're playing at home mostly over the last couple of weeks, and if you break down there actor net ratings really it's their bench, that's winning games. So a team that's winning with its bench at home does way strike me as a profile of a serious playoff contender. We'll see though, I'm not I'm from the Spurs this year. Maybe they'll be great. I don't know. I think tonight's game against Houston for them. We'll be pretty telling they've won a lot of huge games in recent weeks to be fair beat okay. See Denver Milwaukee. Portland, Golden State. But that's all games. Yeah. Yeah. And then with Houston, it's on the road. Blue more of a playoff atmosphere with the road at environment. And obviously Houston is clicking on all cylinders as well. So I look forward to seeing f- San Antonio can do what they've done in the past that rockets defense, and and really just disable it. I do wonder how sustainable their defenses 'cause they've been far different on the home versus road. It's all we have time for it today. The guys. Thanks, john. Thanks to any, of course. Yeah. It's fun. Thank you for listening to the renter. BA show, please give us a five star rating, and I tunes and share the podcast with your friends. If you like it, he sure and check out the ringer dot com to Dan Devine wrote about the Sixers sending and we dropped early version of our draft guide as mentioned earlier John also wrote about Cameron and RJ Barrett. Thanks again every weekend.

NBA Danny nineties John Paul George John Moran basketball Florida Duke Iowa trae young NCAA John Mirant Jeff Teague John wall Marquette Rod Strickland James harden MBA
Does the NBA Have a TV Ratings Problem? | Group Chat

The NBA Show

51:30 min | 10 months ago

Does the NBA Have a TV Ratings Problem? | Group Chat

"The ringer NBA show is presented by state farm. Just like basketball game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate. Who can help you navigate navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way? I guess if I was if I was James Harden I need to talk to a state farm agent about what happened to me last night in San Antonio got his game taken from what. We're GONNA be talking about that in today's regard. Va ratio where the refs came and said you know what not tonight. James Harden get teammate. Who can help you navigate? The expected talk to a state farm agent today about combining your home an auto insurance. Today's show is also brought to you by drake works drink works homebuyer by curious. Much like a premium espresso machine but cocktails cocktails. 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Coaches challenges are actually good. The PELICANS are more fun without Ceylon Basketball as Mary. The low and welcome to the ringer. NBA Show. It's group chat. And I am joined as I am every Wednesday by Justin barrier. The Vanessa Kirby to your Claire Foy. That's right say oh hey we did you not like my intro because we can do it again. 'cause I guess this is what we're doing now Houston Rockets. If you just don't like the results we'll have to just replay the last seven minutes of a game We start today one of my favorite topics the rockets complaining about calls bunched up today. Trucks is coming on. We're GONNA talk a little bit about the ratings dip for the NBA's national TV ratings. But I I really needed just talk about this rockets game from last night. Rockets play the spurs lost one. Thirty five thirty three in overtime double-overtime double ot double ot the Lani Walker the fourth game. We talk about him if you want to charge might but So that some people who basically this is as as Ryen Russillo set on twitter the most rockets game ever harden four twenty from three in love to see but twenty four for twenty four from the line. Because that's what people pay for Westbrook seven for thirty from the field and about seven and a half minutes left in the game. Rockets are up by quite a quite a bit hardened harden gets breakaway dunks it unlike him dunks it with such force conviction that the ball basically goes through the net and I'm back up over the rim right and it's waved off because it's basically the refs reason was like it was sort of obstruction call on the rim itself. It has basically self goaltending sure. That was the wrong call. They did not award the field goal. They didn't let Mike Dantonio challenge it. All of which very unfair lots of things in life that are very chirp of the rockets are protesting this loss to the spurs because after this the spurs came roaring back behind Lonnie walkers a career high twenty eight points including eighteen in the fourth quarter and they are protesting this game. And they I guess the the upshot is they are hoping to replay the end of this game from seven fifty on two from when a harden scored quote unquote right. This is disgrace. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard what do you. What do you think about this first before I go off? I'm just so tired already. Like just listening to you. Just just explain the situation I do we have to do this. Then we just do something with the rockets during the playoffs where we had to like. Listen to them. Gripe rape about these arcane rules that apparently only they understand and have to enforce just know. They're playing the eagles man. I know I mean I guess this is like the the glass half full perspective on this is just like this is how the rockets are successful. That they were saying yes and they focus on these The Clink Capello's of the the draft and these Daniel Houses of the world. And that's how they filled out this consensus on having the flu in the playoffs. Focus on showing up in a decisive game in the playoffs. I have one meaningful playoff performance. I mean don't we get the two minute drill reports are the two minute reports often from the NBA. And they pretty much admit two calls. That should have been called yes differently. Yes and nobody else does. This is my question is what happens if this dunk happens in the second quarter. Yeah tonight we just replayed most of the game right like what what is what are we looking for here. Now I understand worse comes to worse. The rockets were to miss the playoffs. Expire game They would look back and be like the euro season was Robert De really think if it comes to that even if it comes to Miss Homefield home-court advantage throughout the playoffs because of one game Are we really going back to a game in early December where they were still up by like double digits on the Spurs after this dunk and it was only only after when they seem to get completely out of their heads. I guess and the Spurs Word Back Way is that what you're season is resting on like what are we talking about here. Yeah I mean I guess the job by the refs. Everybody gets job by the the idea that we're gonNA somehow automate this feeling and somehow make these things more fair are or make this like the. It's only for the players and the coaches that this matters. Nobody watching cares about this shit. No No I guess the distinction. They're they're trying to make. Is that a lot of these calls. tend to be subjective. Like that is what we're arguing over of REF who made call based on what he saw Moore whereas this objectively actively according to them should have been called in was not absolutely insane. subjectively should have gone to the Super Bowl. It hurts right hurts. Yeah and so we are caught in this situation where they are correct but who cares yes that is literally it and part of it is I think the relationship that most non rockets fans have to the rockets in terms of when you're watching them. You're watching a team. That knows that part of their advantage is that they are good foul shooting team and they're trying to win as much as possible because that's free points and respect you know what I mean like I actually have come to grudgingly respect. Expect this team. I like Daryl I liked harden is obviously one of the five great offensive players who ever picked up a basketball. It's it's definitely like beyond on reproach but this is why people hate you is because the shit like this right. Yeah this is why people don't feel good about watching you because it's stuff like this. Yeah it does I feel like the backlash is building once again to harden. At least there's like simmering like a evidence that people are getting a little bit more miffed with his style of play as they do you every year yeah. I often wonder though as I was thinking about this the other day. If our biggest concern with harden is just don't like him like he's just not a superstar. I think this trickles down to your point about a the rockettes in general is just. They're just not very likable. I and maybe that's like I. Maybe that's a bubble thing. Maybe you and a Ah are infecting each other. And we're not you know we're not giving him his fair do like I. I don't think that the praise harden gets is commensurate to say the peaks of like even Westbrook fandom like three or four years ago. It was a much more emotional passionate passionate connection whereas I think that largely if you're not a rockets fan your appreciation of hardened is mostly analytical bright. Yes view appreciate him. You don't love him Yes yeah So that's our thing on the rockets take the l with sure. Let Me Walker his career night. The Spurs are not going to be a thorn in your side later. Yeah let Lonnie live. Although I will say one I've been chatting about this a little bit about. It's not quite doing theory because it's not like in every case it's a star goes down and the team does better but I will note that Lamarcus did not play last night And and it's another example of a couple. We've had a couple of examples this season of team seemingly like finding an identity when missing key piece. And that's obviously found their footing in the absence of Kyrie. Weedy Kinda came you know came back to life There's a couple of other cases of this happening this season at yeah. The Bucks. Lost Middleton Donaldson. They haven't missed them. The Celtics obviously lost Kyri. And they have an enigma missed hayward they lost hayward and they're still playing fine. Sure yeah the mavs haven't really had KRISTAPS PORZINGIS and they've been fine. No but I I think my suspicion is just that now that we're in the big to era of the NBA. They're it's just It's easier perhaps to fill in the gaps. Because you probably spread out your resources to the rest of your roster or maybe teams are just getting better at filling out those roster roster the rock rockets a prime example of that and as you mentioned the nets like who pretty much like found Spencer did windy out of kind of a predatory chance on. Yeah and and so. Maybe that's the case it does feel like there are a lot of teams that are able to. Maybe they've figured out the regular season ways that they haven't in years past We have there's like a as far there's other news goes you know the Zion Injury Watch is kind of heating up a little bit. We are into the six week mark of the six to eight weeks. He was supposed to miss. And it sounds like nick. New Orleans is being very protective of him as they should be but You know I mean with Zion. It's like you're getting into what. When is this guy got a plan? How durable double is the envy? Yeah it seems like they're taking the right approach like you don't want to rush this now. Of course back. I think the worry is just that Our Big worry about Zion. In the broad sense is just how injured is he going to be a throughout his career and now getting another setback only feeds into that kind of paranoia right right so I don't know It is a bumps in new medical staff in New Orleans though. So it's not like the same old Anthony Davis and yet they still are having tons of injury. Problems is pretty much every player on the roster auster as interloper on. ESPN pointed out in his news or the other day. I think there are only four players that haven't missed game at this point and so it's pretty widespread and I don't think you could attribute it to any sort of medical staff or anything like that but it does feel like this organization is perhaps Kerr's literally like these guys aren't eating enough salads down there could be. That's what happened to me. I look back and I'm like Damn I. I was seriously seriously like A. What was your daily food? Intake with like on a Wednesday has day when you were living there I definitely went to a coffee shop called high volt in which I ate way too many muffins and perhaps like keen wobble okay and that that was like my my safe haven. That was when you were being good to yourself. Yeah and that's like I. I was trying to take a playoff right. I definitely tried to do the Blue Blue Apron thing in order. We're to like like import Vegetables into my eat fried oyster poboy. Right the problem was because it takes so long to get to you by the time that the vegetables get there. They're just like not the best because they're probably full of all these preservatives. But yeah I mean like you're eating a lot of there's there's a Wendy's on Saint Charles that I used as the hit coming back from the SMOOTHIE king yeah from this mimicking arena every night because it was what was open. Oh Yeah it was. It wasn't great. Okay well maybe it has something to do Zion. Maybe not I mean I guess you fake news reporting. I guess you do worry about him getting to her way. Yeah interests almost in the juxtaposed with ad playing through the flu against Denver in Laos shutting. Yokich down and seeing him kind of like you know. He's taken his spills. Those with the the Lakers like he usually does like eighty hits the deck. It's pretty hard and you know he's gone back to locker room a couple of times but he seems like he's in good shape so yet you hope that this this wall just net out to the PELICANS getting another high traffic on the other hand I think it raises concerns about Alvin gentry throughout his tenure he has been dogged by injuries including that like the season there is supposed to take off where they fired monty Williams for him. Yeah and he's always had an excuse there and then all of a sudden like the ad stuff happens uh-huh and so he really hasn't felt the brunt of of just like the IR right. I think there have been burgling and there have been times where people are wondering like well as this Alvin time to go and and you just considering the he has from Just the top levels of the organization because he's been there for a while and is close to gale Benson who now runs the organization In in desert with grip in his work with Griff in Phoenix. And so you'd think that there would be a rapport there. But I mean look at what's happening on the floor there and there's enough there Without Zion to still be competitive and not just crater in the way that they have recently. Yeah I mean. It's a it if they were in the east who knows though you know what I mean like teams in the eastern in conference their way closer to like shirt six seed right now are the seven seed shirt and they are like where they are in the West All right let's talk about our deeply held personal beliefs because this week we we have Interesting story from espy. Jay from the Sports Business Journal John Our end who reported that National television viewership for the NBA down so NBA on TNT. Viewership is down twenty two percent. NBA ON ESPN is down nineteen percent. Some local regional sports networks are doing well overall. Oh an overall the in some in some locations like Atlanta and Orlando I think for instance. We're doing better than they had. You're you're I saw the sixers released since stats yesterday. That we're like you know they're pregame postgame or are are as high as they've ever been in terms of viewership and that stands to reason there was a lot you've built up. I think to the six or season so there's a lot of interest and eagles are not good So there's plenty there's plenty of attention there but For the most part art viewership is down so like why is this happening and I guess are deep. My deeply held personal belief is this is a big deal Even if we do know why this is happening and mark. Cuban has some pretty salient points about it. Which is essentially NBA? National Games are broadcast on cable. They're on TNT and the ESPN and NFL National Games teams are on Fox and NBC and CBS for the most part and then SPN for football. But for the most part you can find nine those National Games on your broadcast on just plug a TV and you get football If cable subs are down ratings are going to be done. I don't know of cable. Subs are down so much the NBA on TNT. Viewership should be at twenty two percent below where it should be right yeah. I'm instantly skeptical. That like a lot of people just have KNOB and tube. TV's fill yes But you know this is. There's a lot of different things at play here. One could be that there are not a lot of good eastern east coast teams right. Not even. Oh they're they're you know it's it's like there's a lot of talent in the western conference like Washington's bad the knicks are bad. The Nets aren't as good as we had hoped. And they don't have durant and they haven't been playing Kyrie sixers are good Celtics are good. But we're not getting a lot of that like East Coast Pop Marine and then you've got the two best teams in the League are pretty much in La so if you WanNa Watch basketball and you're on the east coast. Your night is pretty much starting around ten ten thirty. which is you know inhibits a lot the people from watching any of the National Games warriors are basically decimated so that's a huge growing national fan base? That's probably taking the year off at least So there's a lot of factors going here but I think it's a big deal and I'm trying to sort of explain why I think it's a big deal. Here's an analogy Element let me tell me. If this makes sense I feel like the NBA is like net flicks. it's great product. Lots of people love it and it has a real ease of use. Even you know if you're using league pass if you're looking at twitter it's not hard to find out. Something important is happening. If you're following along on any given night but Netflix doesn't really make water cooler shows Sometimes there have been moments where a show has been released and everybody gets excited about at least stranger things but for the most part you might not even know. I know that a new season of something has gone up netflix. Until you actually look at it. I didn't I mine owners one of my favorite shows of the last five years and it was still unclear to me when the second season was coming So you basically got this content library. That's there that you can have a personal relationship with and it's very curate. It's your your tastes and I feel like the NBA is a lot like that If I want to watch Jimmy Butler for a little while on Wednesday night for some reason if I wanted to do that what I can do that and I don't have to necessarily participate in a national TV experience for that. I don't have to get excited because Oh like I think. Even last night there were a couple of things happening like the rockets. I don't think the rockets game was on national team. That was it but I watched him The NFL doesn't have have that problem right the NFL is more like your Sunday. Night H. B. O.. Shows that everybody tunes in the same time to watch and then the next day they talk about an often they talk about it for a week afterwards awards specifically for in game three westworld. But I think it's even happening with stuff like Washington and I think that beyond our ability you know beyond whether or not people are canceling their subscriptions to Cable and court cutting I think the NBA has a little bit of an event problem. Yes I think they have a little bit of a problem around making making it. So that Luke versus Lebron like what happened over the weekend a believe that was like on Saturday area that Luca versus Lebron matters as much as does shawn versus. Tom Brady did on Sunday night. Football when to Sean. And when the Texans and the Patriots plan Sunday night we have a few days you know a bunch of days to anticipate it and a bunch of to react to it to think about what we saw when looking. Lebron Luca also pleased Tuesday Wednesday. And you Kinda just like if I missed that game I can catch the next one the next one and it's more about the accumulation of Luca performances than any one standout game and if that's happening what's the incentive to make sure your home what's the must see TV aspect of the NBA. Before the plows. So I think this is a big deal. Yeah I agree and circles back to discussion about schedule. ooh That's one argument. People have been made have been making that the schedule was too long is that it really doesn't create a day for the NBA in the way that football has both in college in the NFL. Yeah and so you can't just sit down and just like pick NBA. Yeah I think also if you go. I'm worried I don't know how worried yet but I am worried and I'm word specifically because the NBA has almost acknowledged that this event anti-state issue exists by bringing up the idea of a tournament. They are trying to create a splash and otherwise dead period of the regular season. And and I don't think it's a coincidence. That two periods they targeted around Thanksgiving where people are more focused on full football for sure thing with the NBA is it doesn't technically start in air quotes quotes Until Christmas Day right and then later in the season were teams have traditionally tanked and we will openly say like the results are just completely colored by the the fact that a lot of teams are just not trying right for his secret as we hold the eighty two game records and you know what statistics. Like if somebody sets a statistical record in a regular season I think we would have have tons of debates if it was like well you know he did that only in seventy two games you play ten more games. What would have happened But we see teams taking off way more than in ten games at the end of MBA seasons terms records. You can take or leave. You know what I mean. Yeah and within the tournament proposal they made the one around Thanksgiving it. I believe it would take off a couple of games and and my suspicion has always been if it works if they do implement this and everybody is into it. Wouldn't they just push that even further i. I think that there's a conversation about bringing it down to seventy eight games. There's conversations about dropping it down to seventy two. I don't know what the right number is. I've personally always felt like the the NBA season should be to college basketball seasons. That makes it feel fair. I think it seems like it's a more natural progression from where you were as a college to the pros that you do twice as many games. Not Twice and change I I I don't know if that ever is going to fix though the idea that e is their records are going to be closed like the season is closer to baseball. It's closer to the sort of the current of a river that it is like splash or an ocean wave. You know what I mean right. Everything crashes down on a on a football team on a Sunday and we were like left to think about for a week right. It's a slog yeah whereas football it's almost like a football play where happens and then you could just go back to what you're doing. Yes the rest of the week I think so. Yeah I am worried in that regard but a more on the fence based on the specifics happening in this season. Well I think thus far this season has been pretty boring and it's been pretty boring orange because the only thing that they've really had going on has been the games we talked about. This office is just there. Just hasn't been a lot of drama. It's almost as if they're too many good teams now and so the hoops head. Who wants to break down slob? Plays and really get into the technical aspects of Anthony Davis Lebron James Roles which we do as well they love it right now but the fact that the Lakers aren't fighting in the locker room if Lebron isn't just calling ad out because he isn't like fitting in like that is what drives national interests and like our moms looking at like three yahoo browsers and all of a sudden asking me on the phone like. Hey what's up with the Bron y right. That's not happening. There hasn't been a guys like trade me totally. There's just nobody to trade at this point now because we haven't hit the December fifteen deadline after everybody. Yeah it just doesn't seem like there's a lot of movement movement there some. I believe it was bobby marks on eastbound. The other day made the point that nobody has made a trade a single trade since July right. We didn't get anything in preseason. We I haven't gotten anything yet. Just even like a challenge trait of like seven guy on the benches like is there just hasn't been much to really discuss beyond the basketball and the sad. The truth is that like that is not what drives ratings. It is drama and the other part of this superstars and as you alluded to. We don't have a lot of those on the East Coast and the big issue with Zion. Not being there is the fact that TNT really doubled down on his iron. PELICANS Games being the guy earlier in the season I think it was four four or five. TNT Games were Pelicans up to this point and there just hasn't he hasn't been a lot of voices. Exactly I I think that is an issue and the fact that a lot of the bigger superstars the bigger celebrities have matriculated to the west coast. Lebron being the Big One There were There is evidence to suggest from last season that Lebron going to the West Coast has led to it like a dip in ratings and the NBA. I believe in Strauss had in his piece earlier. This season tried to combat that by limiting the number of national games that start at I whatever the latest date is it would be like ten ten thirty yes thirty seven thirty two buffs for us. Yes and like the warriors are nothing right now right hoping he wants to see the warriors to the point where the NBA took to December Games scheduled for ESPN off the schedule and this. That was a colossus in terms of of ratings like that was a dynasty and as much as we talk about wanting parody ratings suggest I that viewers want dynasty. There are also good for atmosphere within buildings were good for like if the warriors were in town a lot of warriors fans in that city would show up and you would get more more of an atmosphere even if it was a little bit bizarre to have warriors fans outnumbering I don't know no not blazers fans but lake clippers fans. It's now happened that happens now and it creates natural like challenge games. Sure where you have the box verses the warriors whereas now it's just we're still trying to figure out who were the titans of the league. Yeah and so. It just doesn't have as much zip to it when the clippers play the rockets. Yeah I I would be curious to know. I'm from our listeners. Whether or not it feels like the Lamar Jackson Ravens thing. It seems so much more of a significant story than the Luca Danni Mavericks thing thing which isn't to say that there's like. I watched Luca every chance I get. The Mavericks are an really interesting story. This season. They seem to be taking every challenge. Like an and passing passing it. All that stuff is true. It's very early in the season. I get it football still happening. People are probably still really you know thinking about the cowboys more than they are about the Mavs but it does feel like it's more difficult to make the case as to why you need to take time out of your to watch Luga than it is to wash. Lamar Jackson listen. I don't have any like it. Just it just feels that way. I'm not saying like I have like a stat proves that I would also say I'm I think there's an open question whether or not Jaanus in Luga. Perhaps the two of the biggest guys on the rise right now especially amongst the younger crew are the next frontier of you've NBA faces of the league. I think I haven't seen the data to suggest that they can carry it in the same way that Lebron can not celebrities and so I I do wonder I mean. Kevin O'Connor wrote about this for US last week. Changing facedly stuff. Yeah Yeah and also just on the same day that Luca had a monster performance in a matinee against the rockets the cowboys were playing the Patriots in that game was I believe like one of the most watched games in full like recent history shirt that it was like two thousand in seven now. The cowboys are a rare case. But I think that's what you're up against Yasser Markets. Yeah absolutely all right. Well that's what we got for the ratings talk. We're going to bring in sharks. Ah We're going to talk a little bit about the tears rank the NBA tears today on the pod. So let's call Jonathan Sharks and we'll be right back. Today's episode sort of the Ringer. NBA Show Group. Chat is brought to you by the Google Assistant. Google assistant is ready to help you get more done. Just your voice in the car at home and everywhere you take your phone. Hey Google how many points per game does Jj riddick average years. What I've got Fr- JJ redick an all time average of twelve point nine points per game a little help nope hands-free just say? Hey Google to get started today. Show is also brought to you by Fan Duel Sportsbook now available in New Jersey. Pennsylvania West Virginia and Indiana Bangles. sportsbook wants to know what you if you knew. You couldn't lose very. What would you bay if you knew you can lose? What about Zion for rookie of the year? Well he hasn't played yet but if he gets back like what did he come. Uses embryos reminds. Yeah 'cause Jamaran isn't necessarily running away with rookie of the year. I think he's the favourite whereas my koby wipe bad. It's it's up there. Yeah it's still. It's still viable. Yeah for sure right. Here's the thing. This is a thought experiment. This is for real. That's right right now is giving new users there. I bet risk-free that means you can place any bet and Fan Dole refund you up to five hundred bucks and site credit if you don't win. When was the last time your bookie gave you a do over? Then thanks to claim your risk-free bet just download the fans sportsbook APP from the APP store or visit Fan Dole Dole Dot com slash android. It'd be sure use promo code ringer. NBA So they know we sent you. That's Promo Code Rare. Mba to get your. I Bet risk-free on fanduls sportsbook and now the legal legal stuff. You must be twenty one plus physically present New Jersey Pennsylvania. Indiana or West Virginia applies to I wager. Only I wager must be placed within seven days of sign up. Max Refund five hundred dollars. Refunding shoot as non-withdrawal. Credit expires fourteen days after receipt terms. Apply gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or in West Virginia Kenya visit. WWW dot one eight hundred gambler dot net or an Indiana call. One eight hundred nine with all right. We're joined by Jonathan Charts personnel checks. What's up man? I'm Matt Hi Good. I want to get into tears and the MBA power ranking through tears. Here but I wanted to see if you had any siege takes on The ratings situation with the NBA. What's the view from Texas? Why I don't know if they're sage but I always have takes? I'm like what was the one of the big stories here has been load management and I feel like what are we always say trump now like. It's saying the quiet part out loud it twice in a row for you sharks referenced drug part let Santa Clara definitely trump. Why do live in Texas decided by eleven but I mean I think for? We've always known the season's too long that the games November December don't really matter but now players players are actively saying it right now. We're seeing it straight up. I WANNA play tonight seasons too long and if the players know it the fans no I mean most of my friends friends. Don't even watch games to Christmas anyways so I think it's only making you more explicit. We already don't the whole time. Why don't they watch? Games is because there are more into college football and pro football. Yeah it's football season. The seasons like eight months right right. Okay well let's get into the tears anyway while everybody else is skipping November December basketball. We can't get enough of it. I Ah I found this exercise to be pretty fun. So we're basically taking all of the NBA teams and we're putting them into one of seven categories as devised by Justin Barrier Ends Akram. I'm sure we give cram credit here. Yeah he built the Google spreadsheet which is like ninety percent of actually two hours always take credit. Come on so Justin. Austin and Zack. Were kind of working on like how to break this. Down into different tiers We came up with favorites contenders playoff locks on the bubble. I wish they were on the playoff bubble. which is a bad team that you wish was better Bad but not hopeless and this is bleak and we should mention that on Friday. We're GONNA and do this as a staff. Yes and so. These are just almost a sneak preview. Some of the great basketball no way to build excitement coming soon on the ring. We should sell this for like an insider scoops subscription. That's right it's behind the pay wall. Nothing's going to pay well. Let's start with favorites. I think that's best charkes. arx Is a group of three to me at to me like in terms of favorites. It's Clippers Lakers bucks and the big story to me. Yeah I think among that as at Philly really hasn't separated themselves eastern top teams. Like to me. It feels like it's Milwaukee one and other east teams in a big group whereas for this season Milwaukee One philly to then the group of the rest of the east right so there's not any separation there. He's I mean there's a lot of separation between Milwaukee and the rest of the Eastern Conference for you. Yeah the Milwaukee's been killing it all year and even without Middleton Philosophies Games right yeah for me. I think what's interesting about doing this exercise now. I was opposed to do to start the season. Is I feel like I still haven't like lost sight of the bigger picture. And so the clippers. A team record wise is that just isn't on the same level as the bucks and the Lakers i. I had the same trio in in this first year but the clippers I just I look at them and see what they you could do in the playoffs. Applying that to this. I wonder if we were to do this two or three more times and I might be more influenced by recent results. Yeah I to me. It's it's almost I like. If if you're not going to be super consistent then when I see you at your best it has to be pretty good right. And that's been a little bit of an issue with Philly. Is Aside aside from that Miami Game Philly hasn't really like tagged anyone really badly yet and obviously the sixers were always always going to have some growing pains. They got used to each other as a brand new team again for like the fourth time in two years. But they say I don't feel like they've ever hit the gear career like all that teams see. That's a final team right. They're not this season. Yeah no they're they're still very much a mess like I still don't know what to make of them and I especially don't know what to make of them once they get to the playoffs and for me so that's why I have them as a clear-cut in the next in the contenders but favorites charts. Do you have within that. A group of three. Are you leaning one way or another. I mean for me a clippers like I'll put them as uber favorite. Yeah Like the way I think. I've I've already ace enough from them with Paul George. He's playing with quake Hawaiian earlier. This season I think to me like that's a team that really has almost no real flaws has to the absolute superstars fit perfectly together plus Lou and Trez in the side after everything else I mean to me. I look at the clippers and I see like a to me. They're the new warriors. I think they're clearly we're the best team in the league when they're healthy. Yeah I might put the box ahead of both of those teams away if only because the books path to the finals is just so much clear. uh-huh based on the fact that the Lakers and the clippers one of them has to take out the other so you feel like but what about like just straight up aside from the past. Do you feel like the Bucks folks are superior team to La Teams. No I think the clippers are still the front runner Even the Lakers have completely dominated competition. I think last night's win over the nuggets are really was a statement game because now the schedule is getting harder and everyone expects them to maybe take a step back and all of a sudden they just blew out a team. That's also so just high up there in the western conference standings but I just think overall the clippers are just so deep and like mantras Herrell has just taken a leap. This and nobody's he's really talking about it. He's at the point where I was at a recent game. And like you just faced up the big. WHO's guarding him from the perimeter and just took them off the dribble when I was like what the fuck is this I? I think she gets a degree of credit. I don't think we make a big enough deal about like the to the extent to which you might be like their draymond. You know what I mean and totally and how what a great value he was but also what he means for that team. They don't have anyone likes him. In reserve they would have to go to more traditional slower big and vodkas zoo batch and like like what is he going to be next summer on a market where there's just like not a lot of good available players like Casey had a piece today on the raptors and how Fred Vanfleet Mike get his Max which is like in the thirty million range. Just because of the dearth of point guards I look around and outside and Andre Drummond like the really aren't a lot of centers in if from like trying to play a more modern style preparer herald episode to say nothing of the fact that he brings an immediate lake upgrade in terms of on floor energy to any team in week pretty much. Yeah he sets a tone. Yeah sure Charkes so within this contenders bracket which is the second bracket down from Favorites so the favorites. We have Clippers Lakers books. Were all all agreed on that. I'm GonNa let you guys pretty much drive this because I don't think I have that many disagreements here contenders you feel like the sixers are solidly nuts by Gimme your other contenders. Though I mean to me I am the East Philly Boston. Toronto in Miami and then the West Houston and Denver. I mean to me really the middle of the East a story. The season like some kind of risen up. Yeah I have some of the similar teams but I made more of a distinction between contenders offers employees off locks I made my contenders the teams that I think have a realistic shot. If they hit their ceiling their ceiling could be the finals right exactly so I have six six or Celtics Raptors and the rockets. I bumped the mavs and Miami in the nuggets dot here Only because like I think all those teams teams are playing really well especially the mavs. I'm just still dubious skeptical. Yeah I I'm not sure hall much like lasting power this has and do you agree agree with that charge that the Dallas has in quite proven to you that they're like a contender team. Yeah I don't see them play enough defense really to be in that level yet right and I think they're too Luca. Reliant I got more from kristaps from this team could actually win a playoff series right now right now. It's just one guy F. You wash that clippers mavs game like last before for Thanksgiving the clippers is blitz Luca constantly and the master plan before it so The two that we disagree on our the nuggets in the heat what makes you think that there are contenders as opposed to just locks. I guess to me I look at it more like I don't see Houston's much better than Denver I feel like both two of those those teams. Pike couldn't beat the clippers but if it's a nuggets rocket series I'm not saying Huston as like clear-cut superior especially the way Denver beat them a couple of weeks ago. That's interesting with Miami. Amy Like I think Miami Could Be Toronto Boston at times of matchups with these other contenders yeah in Miami took it to the raptors. Last night they went to ot again yeah Ebola thing now I was a weird bad Siachen game too. Yeah he really disappeared down the stretch in that light just raises questions about like how far along is Iago so Yeah the hero are an interesting one to me. They have been playing well but again I look at what they have. And it's a lot of like just dominating by committee where it's like Jimmy the in all these other like this deep bench of guys gorn projects like last night was the victory over the raptors is probably the blueprint for them right. It's like they get contra contributions from all these different players. There's but at the end of the game. Is Jimmy. Show which is what that was the advertisement for Jimmy in Philly like all these other guys can do their thing for the first three and a half quarters and then the last six seven minutes it's going to be butler. Yeah and maybe. That's the difference between a heat. In the rockets the raw emotions yeah a he end the raptors just just because like the raptors are also playing well and exceeding expectations. But like they have Siachen. My Guy who's still unproven in like. Yeah he played well most of the time in the playoffs but like there are times where he disappeared in like a shot wasn't following and all of a sudden. You're just like well. We kind of need that whereas Jimmy's is proven in like whole take a couple of shots that he probably shouldn't but he was like a deciding factor in a lot of those series of the sixers. Sure that guy. I'm watching from. Miami's justice winslow. I think he's kind of the x factor for this team because they were kind of playing without about him. And just Jimmy and shooters but that seems like Jimmy hero none. It's probably not big enough in the perimeter if they're going to make Jimmy and winslow click because both those guys want the ball both are in great shooters both of these huge massive defensive wings and as you can get both those two guys at the same time which. I'm not sure you can give them the lack of spacing using but those who guys can play. Well I think mayhem lawsuit as a little bit of Clippers East vibes if they if they if they can get Jimmy and just going at the same time that that's like a really hard perimeter unlock like. He's saying yeah also wonder like are the nuggets and the heat the two teams you would watch the most going into the trade deadline and are they the ones that have perhaps the biggest patches or swing something like. We're still waiting for Chris. Paul Trade was the waiting for Kevin. Love are these guys enough to swing one of those teams toward order like a different tier. I Dunno or does somebody go for like a homerun Bradley beal trade sure. I guess he can't get now. I think the other guys Igwe Dala to the couch with his son but everybody thinks they would all bound for an LA team rate if he gets bought out if he gets out yeah okay if he gets traded then all of a sudden a lot of these other teams in Dallas. Or is that on. Dal's would be really interesting. Yeah Okay let's talk a little bit about the teams on the bubble Charge do you have for the on the bubble teams. Well I guess this none of bubble team but I think this is the one in the can make a move still. And that's Indiana. I watch those game against Philly last week. I was very impressed with a with a non oil depot roster if he comes back in January and plays well. They've got a pretty loaded team. I feel like I. This next year is interesting. They're kind of in a lot of ways. The teams names of like this early like starting like do you have the pacers as a locker on the bubble I have to me. There are a lot. Yeah yeah this next year. Have which is the playoff locks. I HAVE UTAH. Okay Dallas and Pacers. Gotcha those seams of to me. been kind of the surprises in one way or another of the season so like the jazz have disappointed. The mavs the Pacers of overseas Over exceeded expectations. Yeah and I wonder like Turks mentioned like are the Pacers not set up to like really make a run here they have and they also could make a trade because they have these bigs just like they have so Boehner's earner are like the the guys like they can only go with one right and it does seem like they're leaning so bonus he's a big part of what they're doing and and Turner has just become a little bit more ancillaries become more of just like a stretch big. Who's WHO's aerospace? She shooting threes this year though he is shooting the game. Now he's just not as much of a offensive focal point is I think he has been like. Perhaps I expected. Just because like if you have a bonus rolling like whereas Turner going to be on the court right right spotting up. Yeah Yeah Okay. So who do you guys have on the bubble. I mean to me. The bubbles really big I think and the East and the West you have at the price six teams that are pretty safe and then after that I mean the West the West you've got like Phoenix. They started out fast. They've come back to Earth yet. Yeah Portland the Mellow Blazers Plan. Little better you've got. The wolves started out as kind of like Tina. Started out. Fast catching up. Then you have Sacramento Oklahoma City city. Thank those last two spots open all year same in the east. It's completely up in that spot. Yeah I chopped my up a little bit between on the playoff bubble and wish they. We're on the playoff bowl. Just because I think I added a little bit more but just subjectivity about like teams that I just don't expect to be there and the Enron and like the spurs are a perfect example of that where I think they're on the wish there on the playoff bubble despite their miraculous win last night. Yeah has dogged up top. But I'm on the plant bubble mine is a bit shorter. I had the Blazers Nets magic sons wolves and those are just teams that I expect to be there throughout the season whereas like I don't know the Hornets are technically early in the playoff raise. The Pistons are technically in the playoff race. But they're just like so morose to me that like I just like kids like one of the horrors of the Pistons like probably are GonNa make the playoffs like I just can't talk. Yeah and like the Kings another another team that is basically in this but like I think they have to go through another just like they need to shift what they're doing once Fox and Bagley start to get in there which opens up questions. So how do you feel about the kings specifically. Do you think that what what they've done. More recently is legit or the team. That started the season. So I actually working on a king's piece for tomorrow about Bagley and they've been pretty really good last week. I've watched some of their games. What they've been doing they've been playing Harrison Barnes at four a lot with Bogdanovich healed and then rashawn homes at the five and they're guarding really well or space in the floor but the question is like what you've been talking about when Bagley come back. What's his role when Fox comes back? has everybody else adjust because this team how that plane now is playing pretty well. Yeah the that kind of playoff race at the bottom of the West is really interesting because they almost all have the same problem where it's like they have been better because there are more adults in the room The king's son specifically in the kings because of the injuries as you mentioned and to a certain extent the timber wolves. But like they're still like working and guys like Josh Kogi and Jerk over but it's like. How much are we going to balance the future versus the present? When does it matter to make the playoffs a team like the wolves? WHO HAS KARL? Anthony towns now an extension like it probably doesn't make a ton of difference for them to make the playoffs outside of just like morale-boost but for like the kings kings and his sons were jobs could be on the line or sure All of a sudden like you still need to pay Bogdan this summer. You Selena make certain decisions there. I think it matters a little a bit more yet. The suns are fascinating so the peace of the sons and the kings and I looked at it really. It's been Aron Baynes. He's was the key of this whole thing. Yup when he was health they were good when he got hurt. They fell off really fast and three instead of great defensive player. Yeah without Baynes and most of those games. He's a great defensive a player and he became like an elite stretch five this year. He shouldn't like five game at forty five percent like an elite offensive stretch five. It's going to be great when Aron Baynes is the starting writing center of the All Star game. Why Anthony Davis doesn't WANNA play center? Yeah and they have to trade the Andre aiden like make a path for Bain. Yeah and that's that's the thing rise when eight and comes back. How does that work right? And that's that's attention right. There is like how much do they prioritize the long review with an a guy that drafted above Luca Danni. It's just an F. Y.. Verses that happened just heard about that made it down to Dallas Alice for you but yeah I mean Baynes the house a wonder like how long honestly does the bane show last. How long does your Rubio's just effect on this team last? Sure I think to a certain extent because again adults in the room. It's organizing what was a chaotic situation. But like how much is that. Just shooting above their heads. It's interesting I would. If we're just saying today I would say the wolves will make it just because I have faith and towns is just like an MVP candidate. But I don't know I think it's still very much up in the air. So that leaves at eight spot totally wide open if the wolves or seven. I mean there's like anyone can make at that point right Lynn. Maybe maybe even the Spurs. I don't know Yeah Portland again another team that can make a trade so you wonder if they like what mellow just lead them to the promised. Land I can't get over that you're talking about the Oklahoma City that's team they could trade gala Nari or Chris Paul and kind of booth things wrong for other teams if they wanNA keep rebuilding right. Yeah that's a good point. That's why I think I put them on the lower bubble tear just because you'd expect them to take a step back not forward so the thing I really wanted to get into here was how you guys make the distinction between bad not hopeless versus. This is bleak. So you guys I charge you. Have the Hornets Grizzlies Hawks and wizards in bad. But not hopeless right. Yeah and then you have the cavs. Nixon warriors in this is bleak bleak. Okay for me like the cavs. This is bleak because they're young guards are playing pretty badly like sexton and garlands and that's bleak because that's sure future. Yeah I guess for me. It just hasn't been as much of a creating or perhaps it's just a matter of like a public cratering like the warriors and the Knicks are very much in the spotlight spotlight and when we have talked about them being bleak for a very long time but also wondered whether or not the warriors even belong in the bleak tear. Because if you're looking at at the bigger picture like they're about to get a lottery pick to join like what was a dynasty I'm Eric Paschel adding him back to the. Yeah I mean they are getting like they're giving time and reps to these guys that normally wouldn't even de Ngelo Russell is like he might come back as recently as like is tonight. I think on Wednesday and so all of a sudden he gets to be featured and worse case scenario he just like ups his trade value by dropping fifty at night. I do kinda wonder whether or not have we ever seen a team. Institutionally take a year off. I mean I don't think I've ever seen this before. He maybe an any sport where it's like. Yeah like the KIEF. The key players and all of our across the board here are all for whatever reason not not playing snuff or or they're out so we're just essentially as a team as a as a franchise taking a year off your to pull the dolphins. Yeah exactly the dolphins actually screw that up. Yeah it is like just targeted bigoted tanking. It's whereas like this isn't going to work this year in Zola's bail soon as possible. I kind of respect it. It is for the best like as we said like this team with another another high level draft pick is just pretty awesome. Like I wonder not to think too far ahead but like if no huge moves happen over the summer luscious assume aren't the warriors with a lottery. Pick just like on the same level as the Lakers and clippers again possibly. Possibly I think that the question that got raised by by by what what happened over the off season how much of an impact. Not The rule player that they had had you know what I mean in one draft pick is not going to change that so if they have drained I would call picks traded probably right. What's that I pick? Apply get traded out. Imagine like did they want a nineteen year old and steps as he's getting older they probably don't want to win now player I gas. That's true to a massive trade ship. Yeah Yeah it could beep I mean I. I don't even know who'd be able to join the situation but like a Diangelo Russel in the number one pick for us. We were saying for for embiid right. That was that David China when I wasn't here really affiliate Philippos it up. Yeah no I think. That's God that's such a dark time line situation. I didn't even think about that that they can turn that into a win now player and all of a sudden. They're like just as good as they were two years ago. I mean they're not going to draft Lamelo so I I could see him. They mood for sure. I don't know He. Seems like a Steve Kerr player. The new Steph. If steph couldn't shoot wiki wrap it up there ear That that's the tears will have this piece off on Friday. Chunky said his writing about the Kings. This week And we'll be back next Wednesday it's talked more NBA. John Thanks for joining us. Yep have a good one guy. Basketball is Gary and basketball Gary Gene.

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