20 Episode results for "Getty Museum"

Assessing Recent California Wildfire Damage

Environment: NPR

03:55 min | 11 months ago

Assessing Recent California Wildfire Damage

"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply there has been pretty light compared to recent years so just how bad are things here to help largest wildfire in the state right now and it's big that can cade fire northern California firefighters big in these conditions in this day right now when you factor in the changing climate the overgrown earlier this week ignited near the Getty Museum thousands of people evacuated a about Station how does this compare well they just don't so far you know as you say the Campfire it's built out into extremely dry forests and the year prior to that the at least so far right at least so far I think that's the key but I'd say it's a combination of things pretty hard on their emergency planning and their evacuation routes and drills and another thing really good at teaching these offshore wind events in these extreme fair risk event down as dry desert winds blow in almost the tea fire managers you know they know this could even land and also you know the the forecasts are aiding power companies knowing I mean like I said we could qualify here that all of this progress have been talking about into well that's shortening dramatically and it's getting a lot more fickle attempts have risen of year but also just extraordinarily dry fuels and if these winds continue and the rains.

Getty Museum NPR California
Huge Amazon Wildfires Endanger Our History As Well As Our Air, Archaeologists Say

Environment: NPR

03:04 min | 10 months ago

Huge Amazon Wildfires Endanger Our History As Well As Our Air, Archaeologists Say

"The destruction of the Amazon rainforest is at a decade high. According to statistics to Brazilian government just released tens of thousands of men made fires burn for much of two thousand nineteen and illegal mining and logging put indigenous communities at risk of displacement in violence archaeologists to study the Amazon are increasingly worried about another loss to evidence of ancient civilizations. RECE- Jonah Baretto is a researcher at the immediate guilty Hilti Museum in Belem Brazil which has one of the largest archaeological collections from Amazon. She joins us from building. Thanks very much for being with us. You're welcome Oh come. And what are key. Logic evidence has been uncovered recently for our big surprise as said the forest that we all thought was virgin and untouched. And I. It's in fact. A forest that has been managed by indigenous peoples for thousands and thousands of years we have villages that are really really very large. Were talking thousands of people is was like one village after the other so we estimate make dead before the appeals arrive. You will have between six to ten million people living in the Amazon. That's that's quite a number. That's quite a number and how of these discoveries been put at risk by some of president bolts hours policies in the Amazon. Well it's is being very sad times because we're I concerned. Of course the destruction of the forest but the other problem that we have for the research is the cutting of research funds and it's very very difficult to the research. I work at the site in Motel. megyn riches the oldest heightened in the Amazon. We have the Cave of painted cave. We beautiful petroglyphs and we applied for research spots. They said they. They don't have the money anymore. The fundamentalism resurgent is is like the most important site indium zone president books narrow has said that deforestation in the Amazon is cultural and is not going to end. What does that mean to you So I think that behind. Hi this idea. That Bernie far is a sculptural. He's trying to get at England's Therefore in this is actually a practice that indigenous people do have to clean areas of doing slashing burning but they do it in a very sophisticated way with absolute control role of the areas. They really need to clean up and they know how to regrow the forest afterwards So I think that it's one of his narratives kids that keeps surprising as Christianity. Baretto is a researcher at the Getty Museum in Belem Brazil. Thank you so much for being with US thank you.

Amazon Belem Brazil Jonah Baretto researcher Hilti Museum Getty Museum RECE Bernie president England zone president Motel. megyn
Munch's 'The Scream' recovered - May 7, 1994

This Day in History Class

06:22 min | 1 year ago

Munch's 'The Scream' recovered - May 7, 1994

"The maybe it's who you up next to this morning. Maybe it's what you had for dinner last night. Oh, how you getting to work right now. It's invisible. But I is already making decisions for us on sleep walkers were speaking with the smartest people in the world and taking you inside the headquarters of Facebook, the NYPD and a secret lab at Google to find out what the revolution will mean for us. Listen and subscribe to sleep walkers that apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. The stay in history. Class is production of I heart radio. Greetings, everyone. Welcome to this day in history class where we learn a smitten of history every day. Today is may seventh twenty nineteen. The day was mazed of nineteen ninety four just about three months after it was stolen Edvard monks painting. The scream was recovered from a hotel room in Norway. Created four versions of this cream. A well known expressionist work depicting person screaming in anguish. One of those versions to 1893 painting mate with Tempera on cardboard was in the national museum in Oslo as the nineteen ninety four. Winter Olympics were approaching the museum moved the scream to the ground floor gallery. Even though the ground floor is typically the riskiest floor when it comes to potential for art theft. The museum had faith systems like cameras and alarm but on February twelfth nineteen ninety four the day of the Olympics. Opening ceremony in Norway to men arrived at the National Gallery in van. They leaned a ladder against a wall broker window and climbed inside the building to steal the valuable painting at around six thirty in the morning. The museums alarm was triggered a guard called the police, but the men had already cut the scream. Off the wall and escaped with the painting, the whole operation only took fifty seconds and was captured on tape via surveillance camera that these left a postcard in the gallery that read thanks for the poor security, some people believe that that was a publicity stunt. It would be nearly impossible to sell a famous solen work of art. A former priest and leader in the antiabortion movement did a radio interview less than a week after the fifth where he claimed the painting turn up if the national television company, aired an anti-abortion film called the silent scream that never happened in early March a lawyer working for the antiabortion movement said one of his clients could provide for the paintings return if he was paid a million dollars that claim was also dismissed when the National Gallery received a ransom demand of one million dollars. They refused to pay but the assistant police chief in Oslo did enlist the Scotland Yard squad that specializes in art in antiquity stuff to help solve the crime. And get the painting back they mounted a sting operation to catch. The people who are seeking the ransom and planted a rumor that the National Gallery set up a deal with the Getty museum in California where the Getty would pay the ransom if Perot the painting after it was returned. The thieves took the bait in late April and early may police found pieces of the painting's frame at a bus, stop and other places in nitsa doll near Oslo but detective reached the end of their trail when two British agents posing as a fficials from the Getty museum that they would pay for the painting on Saturday may seven they've you the painting in room five twenty five of the hotel Oscar strive, then they went to the Grand Hotel in Oslo where they were supposed to pay the ransom there. Three people were arrested though, one an art dealer who the galleries tear men had enlisted as a go-between was soon led off. The painting was recovered and undamaged in nineteen Ninety-six four men were convicted for theft and attempting to sell stolen property Paul in year who had been to prison before for stealing another Munthe work received a sentence of six years and three months in prison. But because the British detectives working on the case into Norway using false identities which was illegal the convictions of three of the thieves were overturned, and they were released in nineteen ninety eight in year who remained in prison escaped when he had a little over a year left to serve in early nineteen ninety nine he dipped off during a group visit to a new Oslo airport after two weeks. He was found at a rail station wearing dark glasses and a wig the National Gallery. Improved security after the ordeal in two thousand four another version of the scream was stolen from a monk museum in Norway. It was recovered two years later, so damaged I'm eve coat in. Hopefully, you know, a little more about history today than you did yesterday. I have one interesting additional note for you, the eighteen 1895 pastel version of the scream sold at auction for one hundred nineteen point nine million dollars in two thousand. Twelve. We'd love it. If you left us a comment on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook at t the I eight fee podcast. Thank you again for listening, and we'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from iheartradio is the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Chelsea handler. Welcome to life will be the death of me production of I heart radio. And I'm going to talk to all these different people BFF, Mary McCormack, if I didn't have a systems managers cleaning, ladies or any staff at all how long do you think I would survive? You can't do podcast without. Life will be the death. In me is a production of heart radio for more podcast from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shifts.

Oslo National Gallery Norway Getty museum Apple iheartradio Facebook theft NYPD Google Mary McCormack Olympics iheartradio Norway Tempera Grand Hotel Scotland Yard Twitter Chelsea
#14 - William Zaluski on the Getty

The Artword Podcast

16:06 min | 1 year ago

#14 - William Zaluski on the Getty

"<music> where are we were here. In the Central Garden the Getty Center <hes> This was designed by Robert Irwin part of the architecture of Richard Myers design here at the Getty Center and what is the Geddes enter at the getty center holds the collections of the Getty Museum which includes our manuscripts are painting sculpture decorative arts <hes> also the photographs collection is here <hes> the one collection that's at the Guinea villas the Guinea antiquities collection election and what's your name my name. I'm William Celeski and what do you do here that I'm one of the gallery educators so I'm part of the education team that helps to support all the public tours that happened at the Getty Center. This is very exciting. 'cause we've just been woke around <hes> the galleries and we have looked at a couple of objects and they have something in common all things Sweden yes <hes> so anne. Marie talked about during this conversation you said well. I don't necessarily know that much about the time when these albums were in Sweden and that's fair enough and Isa we talk about them ass art objects and ass making part on the getty <hes> museum so let's do that. Let's start with a painting with a hair because I think it's so good. Oh great yeah. It's one of my favorites in it's a favourite of many the of the students that come to visit <hes> it's a painting by Hans Hofmann <hes> we call it hair in the forest and it was <hes> painted at a time when the holy Roman emperor was Rudolph the second and he had a collection of paintings and art objects <hes> including a drawing by Albert Dir <hes> the dirt drawing is one of a hair but Hans Hofmann inspired by the Great Master <hes> gave a great environment around the hair including a Ho variety of different animals specimen that probably were are also the collection of route off the seconds Menagerie <hes> not make sense okay so it's an object that during the thirty years war was looted from Germany and actually made its way up to Sweden and then it was probably owned by a couple of the people and then it ended up here yes <hes> I think it was around the year two thousand when the getty was able to acquire it <hes> the getty is acquiring paintings that have a wonderful of the quality of the work remains. <hes> said the paint surfaces really quite nice. It's painting on panel and the panel itself has warped overtime. They think it would probably was in front of a fireplace at some time in its history and the surface itself has become bowed D- <hes> but the getty has specialists in conservation that are working around the world and they are doing a panel paintings conservation initiative and training and a whole new generation of conservatives that are working to understand all the different issues of what it means to conserve a panel painting so <hes> they have great knowledge of what it is that a panel painter would have done and <hes> all it's an perfect environment with that rabbit and it's perfect environment here at the museum so when you take a group of students to view that kind of object I mean it's a so many things to say about it. Where do you start what we start with what the students themselves see so so we we have an rather general opening words like <hes>? Maybe I would ask them what it is that you know to spend some time looking to silently <hes> oftentimes I invite them to think about. You know. Maybe just to disarm them a bit because I'm. A stranger you know leading them on a tour <hes> you know just to do things like they would probably do in their classroom so I might say you know. Let's look together at this. I'm going to invite you to look for thirty seconds just silently and then we'll share some of our ideas. What is that I see or what I wonder what I think and the <hes> students then can lead with either a question that they have an observation and the conversation can go from there and that could obviously to anything <hes> what's the most strange thing anyone has ever said about that painting or have any ones that have opened up your eyes steward well? <hes> one of my favorite things is that there's a whole background that is deepen shadow and within those shadows knows if we're looking at naming some of the specimen that are there so there's butterflies that are sitting on these various plants or you have snails and <hes> a grasshopper <hes> there have been students who have looked deepen the shadows and have seen howling in wolves which <hes> I don't know it was the intention of the artist to within these deep shadows to suggest the wolves but if somebody sees it well <hes> I can go along with that too. Why why couldn't there be Wolfson that woods I mean it would make sense if you slaves butterflies and a hair? I mean that would be a wolf somewhere around well. Maybe that's why the rabbits ears perked true that wow okay so we had that painting and that painting is obviously the interim what would happen would g <hes> that got the next room with your group <hes>. How do you normally do it so we have over one hundred sixty thousand students at visit the getty annually so on any given one day? That's probably about seven hundred fifty students so at any one time we can have about thirty five tours earning simultaneously and the work that I get to do is to help organize like a conductor of a train where it is that at these tours are going to go so many are going to be following each other either on their heels are in somebody else's toes and so it's all clockwork <hes> but the going to travel through four different galleries spending about fifteen minutes in any one gallery Arri and it'll be the choice of the tour guide so any dosing can choose any of the artworks or they might actually be open to allowing the students to gravitate towards the work that they would like to look at that day so in any given our they'll spend about fifteen minutes looking talking talking and doing activities whether it's moving around looking at from different points of view you know even imagining maybe the sights and sounds of what it is. That's happening in this forrester. Could you make the sound of a rabbit <hes>. He was munching on those leaves. How many educators do how are Joseph Program is <hes> numbers is about six hundred and those volunteers yeah we support a whole number of volunteers both between here at the Getty Center in the Getty Villa <hes> those who are working in the galleries number about two hundred here at the Getty Center <hes> about one hundred twenty of them work with our school student audiences and then our general public tours are also a robust kind of outreach that we do for the public so on any given day someone could see <hes> a collection highlights tour so sampling of all the different kinds of collections that we have here across the different times or focused Turon US Pacific collection like a renaissance collection or the Barocco elections? Were maybe even our French decorative arts. So is it quite likely that if you grow up in the Los Angeles injustice era area difficult say a Los Angeles area you will come here to get a center with your school right often. We will see a lot of students repeat visiting <hes> we do give a free parking pass in the giddy itself is always free. Three <hes> the parking pass would allow for them to bring their families and then they could become the guides <hes>. I'm always surprised that there are a number of students who are here for the first time <hes> and I always say you know welcome back to those who are here returning. How how does that work in Los Angeles would g if I'm a teacher in school and I want to come visit the getty? How does that work? The getty has a website so getty dot e._d._U.. Is Our website and on the Getty website under our school program section <hes> one confined into listing of <hes> a reservation that you could make and that reservation could be at various times in the year we start just after Labor Day so in September and we have tours all the way through June is that free everything is free and the Keti has our bus funding program. There's on nearly a million dollars in a budget that helps to support schools to visit so we have <hes> the investment that we make in what we do for school. Students of the city of Los Angeles is really quite extensive amazing so today eight most people see pitchers constantly on various digital devices. We are very used to moving imagery. We I used to digital paintings and things that are apparent our phones. What is what would you say that the getty this kind of institutions what what can can we offer that student fifth grader that they cannot see in Auriol's yeah well? I think one of the things that <hes> in the digital world that we have in this <hes> analog kind of context is the experience of movement within a space and <hes> being able to move across the space within a space and <hes> many times in our decorative arts galleries which were installed in the nineteen nineties by teary this spawned a French interior design historian who working with our curator's created a kind of immersive experience and that immersive experience allows for one to almost feel like they're transported in place and time being almost in the place of the the renaissance collections or a French chateau of the eighteenth or early nineteenth century so <hes> it is kind of an imaginative experience because you get to not only be with these original works of art but then also almost feel like you're transported report in place in time because the context of the works might emulate ways in which the display was when they originally displayed yes so basically you don't have to travel to Europe. I mean in Europe. Most of these items were made of course horse and that is interesting because then we're trying to make scenery for something we're trying to make stage for these objects. <hes> I think was interesting as well and we talked about this. Previously it is not a film. It's not a moving imagery. We're not trying to tell story here. Fix Story would just showing objects well. I think that <hes> it's been studied the way in which people move about a museum and even if you're curate a space in have an object one side and you intend for these objects to be in conversation together <hes> an a visitor might move around the space in very random ways and stop here or stop there and spend you know three three seconds here eighteen seconds there and the time that is usually used in looking at anyone objects is generally rather short but in total that kind of experience then kind of ads one to the next to the next and then you can have maybe a deeper fuller experience with maybe one object and that can be transformative <hes> the way that they have the museum designed within pavilions <hes> between the different pavilions you can step outside side and have a type of relief looking at the landscape outside the wonderful southern California son and the beautiful nature around to <hes> reinvigorate at energy back in tier experience <hes>. <hes> do you know for how long this general stay at the getty. Yeah it's good question. I think that we have a variety of kind of times. <hes> most people probably spend about four hours <hes> We of course they study all the different logistics of being at a place like this. If we see nearly two million people between the two different sites across the year <hes> they generally think that our parking turns over about once a day and so <hes> that's the way that they can kind of balanced the number of visitors and how long that they're going to stay so generally about four to six hours is probably typical kind of visit. That's a very long time well. It takes about ten to fifteen minutes to get up the hill. The tram is part of the experience and I always I think that students who visit here it's hard for us to overcome the <hes> kind of ride that they have and coming up the mountain Zaid <hes> but once again to the galleries a Lotta Times they have really fun experiences with wonderful old master paintings sculptures that are in the collections beautiful art objects in our decorative arts but yeah the tram is certainly a highlight it is I really enjoy it too. I must have met let's not speak about the other paintings <hes> the other painting that then I was thinking about detetion painting Yeah <hes> J. Paul Getty had owned Titian painting which is of the subject of Mary Magdalene. There are several different versions of that painting throughout the world so he had an active workshop of many different specialists that were assisting in kind of on production that he would do and painting <hes> <hes> probably various parts of each of the different paintings were by his hand <hes> and the painting of Venus and Adani's who was formerly in Swedish collection probably in the Seventeenth Century <hes> they think that that is a signature work that that was painted when he was also creating the composition for marriage of Mary of England and Philip <hes> the second of Spain so the version that the getty has they think is probably the version that after that signature version went to <hes> the couple which is now in the pro- <hes> it remained in the studio that all other subsequent versions were made having studied that interesting so this. When is this made again? Oh it was made probably me between the years of around fifteen fifty five and fifteen sixty and here we are and that painting is still around yeah four hundred fifty years on it's amazing it does have a crease down the middle so it does seem like at some point in its history was folded over it is a very large canvas and it has a lot of beautiful passages of paint. <hes> one of my favorites is the for of the dogs and they don't know if they wanna stay or if they WANNA go I guess they're instinct is to go on the hunt with a donnas and they're kind of pointing him in the way <hes>. I actually think that one of the dogs is probably marrying. What Venus herself is doing which is kind of like holding him back that she had the premonition that you know this is not going to be a good day for him that it was going to be his downfall if he was going to go off to hunt but and we know he died on that hunt? It's terrible it is he spilled his blood that Gourd you gored by the bore and <hes> well there was one more transformation her tears. Here's mix with his blood turned into the enemy flower so we have that to always think about the beautiful love affair of Phoenix and Donnas when the an enemy flower blooms and spring and his beautiful that is that's beautiful them to that story. It's a bit sad though and it's also gorgeous painting yeah. I'm very happy about this little chat. I think this is perfect says exciting to what I want to. Thanks Jenny. It's been a wonderful afternoon. I'm so happy to visit. Thank you so much.

getty Getty Center Getty Museum Los Angeles J. Paul Getty Sweden Getty Villa Hans Hofmann Europe William Celeski Robert Irwin Marie Richard Myers Donnas Arri anne Geddes California Central Garden
Angie Dickinson & Comedian Bobby Kelton, who discusses his 1st Tonight Show appearance with Podcast Host Wil Shriner

The Johnny Carson Show

43:54 min | 9 months ago

Angie Dickinson & Comedian Bobby Kelton, who discusses his 1st Tonight Show appearance with Podcast Host Wil Shriner

"Hey and welcome back to another Johnny Carson Show podcast. I really hope you're subscribing. We're going to have a lot of interesting guests and shows I have a great guest for you today but let me tell you a little over the show. Well Janis as his guests. The Wonderful Angie Dickinson. Who's been on the show many many times and she was a beautiful and a favorite guest of Janis Janis Ladies Monologue deals a little bit about Hollywood boulevard and And some funny stuff about Donny. Osmond and of course my favorite joke about Mickey Rooney getting married for the eighth time Johnny Always Enjoyed others that were married. Many Times says was he gets married three or four times himself during the panel. Johnny Eh discussed Los Angeles the some of the things you can do for free in La. So it's a great show. There's a lot of good back and forth between Johnny and Ed but today I've got a guest on and he is a veteran of the tonight show's done twenty one appearances as a comedian. Names Bobby Kelton. And he's a friend of mine known him a long time. He lives down here in Florida where I live and we got a chance to sit down and talk about well his memories and his first experiences and and what the tonight show meant to all of us as young Comedians so Here's my buddy bobby. Kelton and here's another show from July twenty seven th one thousand nine hundred seventy eight a welcome back to the Johnny Carson Show podcast. I luckily bumped an old friend of mine. Who started in comedy about well? Well before I did and we're in Deerfield beach and we're talking about his first appearance on the tonight show which is part of our show tonight. Do you remember how vividly do you remember what it was. Nineteen it was July twenty seven thousand nine hundred. Seventy eight seventy remember. Totally vividly interesting every tonight show I did I remember vividly the date guests the guests and everything so I ask every comic this when you watched your tonight show when you got home or wherever you went to watch it afterwards. Did you ever go. That's it I nailed it or did you always have second thoughts good question. I never was completely satisfied. Never I mean even when it was the alternate kill was just as great as anybody could imagine. I would pick it apart if you you know if if if I got applause like almost every line but one joke was and I wanted to ten scale and nine instead of ten or one word was I would just nitpick myself all night. I think that's all of us. I think we all tough on ourselves. I remember going back to the Improv. After you did the tonight show and they'd put it on the bar you ever have. That experience experiment did Yeah I did. It was fun because everybody would patch on. Whether you did pat off trip. You are on your way with it was Yeltsin Miyo trip and I generally really normally went home. I like to just like to watch it by myself at home at ten after twelve is whenever we would walk out record the show and wait for my phone and you know who the first one every spot to call me was even before my parents Jay Leno Oh no was right right there I call every time gala miscalculate spot J. J. Took a great pleasure. I remember I was on dance fever as a judge. You had to dance out jingles Schreiner. I I got you dancing out but You know so. Let's let's talk about that first moment so after you do it now. Johnny gives you the he gave you the thumbs up stuff and and then he he brought you back out for a curtain call which you don't see very often right. In fact I watched a lot of comics preceded me. I don't think I ever saw that so that was is pretty unique And I went finished and it was great and I was like on cloud nine and went behind the curtain. And the guy there station says he's calling you back account pushes me back through the curtain. Oh Shove your backup you. Look you know. That was always an awkward thing. You know W- whether Johnny's GonNa call me over the first time I knew he wasn't. Yeah well some people do well some people oh new there were very few that first time and there was always and I realize if you did if you're set went too long there was no time to come over about four or five shots and I realized realized we'll just do a minute less than you might good idea. Wish I had thought of that. Yeah so So yeah so they. They said he wants to go back out and And they just opened curtain curtain for me and I went out and took a bow which I when I see it I it still. Everything's amazing now when they went to commercial and those Johnny Johnny come back and say hello or shake or anything it was at just the end of it. Well Not Dan but after the show he would in fact whenever I did the show. If I didn't sit down on the couch I wait. You know in the hallway and he would come out and always shake my hand and say great spot. He'd kill you you knew. His newest is path and I waited. I waited and he would always be very nice complimentary and a couple of times. We Walk to our cars together in the parking lot which is pretty cool. Because you know you didn't get to see talked to him too much though too. He he was not as I tell people in this podcast he was not you know. Hey come in hanging your dressing room or before you might see him in makeup right or not you know. When did you see him ever before the show once and I think it was my first time might have been my second? He patient a hallway. And I wasn't a big Pacer Bob. I was just in the hallway. And he comes down and makeup and he's walking towards me and you can you imagine he's walking and he he shakes my hand and says I hope one of us is funny tonight so it you know you talk about breaking the ice I was so relax after that. He cracks me up and it was just perfect. I hope one of us is funny tonight. That's a funny. I got my manager but Robinson at the time was handling dock so johnny would come up and play poker there so bud. What's up and Johnny was never like friendlier? I've done the show. A dozen times are so unhappy but he was never like a guy like he just he was as funny as he was. I think he wasn't comfortable in with people right. So outside the show L.. And letterman was like that Letterman was happiest doing the show. Yeah so he never At the Poker Games said anything. No I didn't play poker. I just came up with their say much. No he sent one time. I did a joke that he didn't like it was a little bit. It wasn't off color but you know MacAulay and said yeah go for it. So then Johnny comes. Freddie comes in English County is a little upset about that sperm joke. He'd just done an art fern donkey. Dick Joe reminds me what happened to me. When MacAulay would clear everything breath go everything? And I have one joke and in the joke. I mentioned. It's going to sound pretty pedestrian today. I mentioned the word Nipple. And he's got a clear that with the sensors I mean can you imagine having today joke about erection and I think you know you hear that in the commercial every five minutes but that was a word that was not a provable way all right so he called me up sensors fine. You could say that we're nipple I go and I go home and it's the word is bleeped out called a call the next day. I said you clear it with a Sanchez. He said I know. But Johnny didn't like it and Freddie didn't like it so you kind of exasperated because you don't want Johnny to be upset anything thing but the censors said it was okay and yeah Jim McCauley. Who was the talent coordinator who who really worked with all the comics to make sure you know his and I? I'm sure you know this. But his his approach was. It's not about getting a laugh. It's about making Johnny Laugh. Exactly exactly in fact when you know so you know the the the big names like the robber client George Karl. I'm sure they didn't have to run any material by macaulay but guys like me. I'm not only did he have to come and see me at the club. Even bent on my fifteenth or twentieth time. He had to see it. You think by then he would let me go and many times I would just go into the office and do it for Macaulay and he would go every every line I did and he would say China will like that. I don't know if Johnny like that John you'll like it was every line was whether Johnny will like it not the audience. Yeah no I had experience errands because I did this joke about. I think I had my first homosexual experience. I did my wife's hair and it didn't kill in the clubs. But MacAulay loved he goes. Johnny's GonNa Scream but Jim Jim it doesn't get allow right. Maybe I don't want one laughed. So yeah you know I remember having to stand up Jim about this so now you do the tonight show us over the first first one. You're done you got a great response. What happens okay so after I finished After the show. You're all kind of in the hallway like I said Johnny makes his exit. Says you a great. Thanks and Peter Sally. The coke came up to me and I remember exactly vividly everything he said. First of all I said how old told you I said twenty seven. He said that's a good age. You're going to be able to handle what's coming towards you. I didn't know he was talking about being Deerfield Beach Coffee Shop in twenty twenty talking to you and then he said he said. Please don't do any other shows for the next few. We we want you to be our guy. He actually asked me not to do any of the shows and they brought me back if I was three weeks after my first one and three weeks after that three weeks after that I was on four times in three months. Slough out so yeah. 'CAUSE 'cause your first intro was not because Johnny love to say I'm this first comedian or this next next committee is making his debut. You've already done a couple of TV shows prior to that. I had like the comedy show. I had I actually did a merv Griffin the really interesting story story about that is a A month before the tonight show. I was on this show called. ABC Presents Tomorrow's Stars. I don't know if you remember that it was almost like. WHO's the forerunner to like the American idol star search contest and they searched all over the country for Comedians to go head to head and the head auditions from all over the country? And they finalize it me the and Greg Travis on the show that was two singers against each other to comics and I went on it was so one of the rules of the show was you had to be the the first TV. This show you ever did so when edition. Macaulay brought me into addition to NBC. For the studio with decorum in the room and they they love me. We want you on the show. NOPE and I had to turn them down. They wanted me the next week. I'm doing this show tomorrow. Stars and and the rule is it has to be my first show. I actually had to turn down the tonight night's show let's and so they were kind. They said Okay and they gave me a date a month later. Was that decision. You made or your agency listen you know it was. It was the rule of of the show. I was doing that rule but I mean but in your head you're going to say okay I'm GonNa pass on this show so I can do the tonight show. It was probably a big enough opportunity in a way I wanted to but it was. The show was a week later. I had been work. You know I mean. I couldn't cancel out even if I did want to but I spoke to macaulay the end Dakota but they were okay with it. You know for me. It was like. Are they doing the right thing. What if they change their mind? But I really didn't have much choice and today we're listening to your first tonight show Paris now. How was and you did? What twenty one of them's yes? So how was the twenty one the twentieth. How is it different when you were? You obviously had to be much more comfortable in the form. Good question great question. I'll tell you why it was. I was less comfortable. Well let me put it this way. I was more comfortable performing. But there's one thing as I went on and and maybe you experience this because you did a lot to you had to keep being as good good as everyone in other words you could have a drop off so my first one was unbelievable. First second third everyone was unbelievable. And and then I started worrying that That I had to keep what. What if this one is instead of a ten is only a nine which is silly that you have to worry about well? We're we're insecure people as as as as as as as Comedians so you think but yeah but the one two three was what they wanted to know yet. Three good ones and then you're right. Forth was more important that it was A. Yeah because the and by the fifteenth I was comfortable in that I was like a regular and Johnny like me but I felt more pressure that I have to be as good. It is all those first ten or twelve. I couldn't I could let my guard down and now ladies and gentlemen he Johnny Yeah smokey Okay Carson. Were they lucky. Strike extra anyway. Welcome to the tonight show. This was the ninety minute program. It gives Tom Snyder. Time to think of something. Say the report from the newsroom. This this did come over the teletype. Roman Polanski was spotted in a laboratory in Great Britain offering bring a Hershey bar to a test tube. The deadly A lot of you're on vacation. I saw this vacation time of year July and August and we have a nightly tip that we give frequently the tourists out here. We don't want you to go home with any bad feelings of California years our nightly tip for you if you were walking on Hollywood boulevard and you see a sign that says the good hands people people it is not an insurance company. And I'm afraid we had entered their first stage smog alert. Today we have a group of people out of your call the air quality management district or something like that. I don't know what the hell do they give. You warnings you you get up in the morning. On the radio and television warnings. They said today. The air is unhelpful. You're wondering what that means. Let me put it this way. Before you breathe put the air on a blender that test tube baby thing is quite a story. Isn't it a lot of people are concerned now about the morality and so forth genetics. But the success of the test tube baby has encouraged thousands of people all over the world. Now Donny Osmond is thrilled now he can have have a child. I'm still remain a virgin. Sorry about that Donnie. Too good to pass up the repercussions are already being felt from this scientific miracle today a blonde showed up at the edge door molding beaker in a blanket demanding ten grand in test tube support interesting. Well let's go back to Washington where all the strange things going on Still have some repercussions of the White House is still reeling. From those disclosures that some of President Carter's Zaid's apparently were using illegal drugs But the president kind of a a tough position is now trying to convince us that they did needed to save the taxpayers money. His reasoning goes this way it allowed them to take trips without leaving town former president. Richard Nixon had something to say about this today. He made a statement regarding Dr Born who is Carter's former drug abuse adviser and Nixon said and I quote he said things are pretty bad when the men in charge of the problem. The White House is doing it himself. Nixon remembered that when people were saying that about him I think Nixon said that his aides for example never used mind expanding drugs. You're absolutely right. You see those work you gotTa have have a mind to start with and then then expand. If you're thinking of going overseas I would think about it for a while. The dollar is not worth much overseas. It hit a new low. Oh in foreign markets it is big trouble. A guy polygamy coming to work tonight stuck in my ribs and said look I'm desperate but I only take Swiss francs francs diamonds. Were an oriental rug. Joint didn't have on me. Do you know what you can get for twenty dollars at the supermarket. Today you can get arrested for Loitering Loitering Twenty Bucks I was. Have you been in the supermarket lately. I WASN'T RALPH'S I. I always get my jokes. They're they're dated for freshness at Ralph. You get now. Here's a news. Item is all over television last night in the papers. Today Mickey Rooney took out another marriage license. The rumor is at. Mary will marry a girl by the name of Janice Chamberlain. She's a singer songwriter. And this will be the if they get married his eighth bride. You get the feeling. The cable snapped on Mickey's elevator shoes. I mean he's eight wife. You know the Mickey's not a really short. His third wife got got custody of his legs. Have you noticed that. Mickey Rooney always marries a very tall girl. And that's what breaks up. All of Mickey's Maria's Mikio. So happy with what he sees where he is he never no never notices it just never notices. There's talking going on up. There is a rather swift crowd tonight. Isn't it Mickey's Ed. So much. Thrown at his winnings he has uncle Ben on retainer. They eat eight wives. Many wedding rings his finger looks like a rule of life savers. Okay we got a good show tonight. Miss Angie Dickinson is here tonight. The new young comedian first time on our show. Joe Bobby Kelton is with us. Looks like nine thank you and if you just joined us we have Angie Dickinson tonight. Then Bobby Kelton. You're familiar with this. I'm sure it looks pretty good magazine. Los Angeles is you know a lot of cities around the country now not only major cities but smaller cities have their own original magazine. which is good and this issue? The annual summer preview issue is a good article in here on one hundred and one free things to do in in Los Angeles this summer cities that you were going to New York to read the list of things that you can do absolutely nothing people wanting what you do because prices are a little high. And here's some of the things you know the Shakespeare in the park we'll do out here is going to present two gentlemen of Verona. Now that's free. The Getty Museum which is wonderful by by the way concerts are held the third Thursday of each month. Did you know you can go to. La Philharmonic Rehearsal. I did not was not aware that they rehearse weekdays at Hollywood bowl. Apparently hardly that is open to the public. That would be fun to watch. Monica wringers the travelling circus tours. The city parks inviting kids three to fourteen to performance clowns and acrobats Croats Festival in black and macarthur park coming up the Long Beach. See Festival feature races of all sorts and sand sculpturing. The Old Spanish days fiesta in Santa Barbara nothing actually in Burbank happening out here Griffith Observatory have you ever been a griffin this. You should go up there. They have one of the largest telescopes twelve and a half inch reflecting telescope. It's available for a look until ten PM night if you can see. Through our era visit to Rancho Santa Anita Botanic Garden and Clermont grabbing. How about the world's largest neither an automatic musical instruments the American International Galleries and Irvine is open to the public? Nothing's being yet. How about guided? Tours libra tarp. Oh now you're talking we're fossils disposals. I'd like to see the Bush bird sanctuary in Van Nuys celebration of the summer in Santa in a barber sponsored by the Santa Barbara. Mime Caravan. Also you can tour the Queen Mary down a Long Beach visit the Huntington Museum in San Marino. Or the Getty Museum in Malibu now those are some of the things you can do for free in Los Angeles which issues that that's the Info on the cover. Yeah Yeah June I remember it then. I'll have take a look at that one hundred and one or that's just a few pages ages. It's kind of like a precis of each one but you read that article. You'd know it all when she saw right there every thing in the world you'd ever WanNa know isn't that of course you are wrong second-stage Hillard breath. There's more we had there are others. Yeah we had our staff check in some other little known things they covered some. They didn't touch them all for example. Here's another freebies for you. You can take a walk through the Arab section of Beverly Hills new ran in something. That sounds a little weird. But nevertheless it's free you can attend the prostitutes pet show the country's largest gathering gathering bulldogs and new tricks. Or you can just go gays. Mount shaky you didn't allow shaky is located in the Hollywood hills. Mount Shaky contains a natural rock formation carbon. The Rock that uncannily resembles the three stooges Larry Moines curly and if sunrise when the sun just is right the figures appear to be sticking their fingers in each other's eyes. You can visit any apartment in West Hollywood and watch the occupant water. The plants in his window box at the sound of the doorbell ring. The plants are quickly harvested two and flushed up in Fresno. There's the circus freak cemetery and you can visit you can witness an actual burial see the fat ladies. CASCA floored by forklift into the ground. You'll see twelve dead clowns get stuffed into a coffin. That's the way they look and the tomb of the unknown fire eater with a perpetual flame coming out I told you it's weird. The school for precocious children and Seino is putting on a marionette production of deep throat up in Bakersfield field gateway to Barstool. There's free admission to the Museum of Antique Toilet Paper. Aw beaver land. USA The only natural beaver farm in southern California visiting bleed environment of of Nature Engineering Wonders Watch train beavers built dams and pick up dollar bills with their guns. Just another old. These go ahead to finish what I know. The and Dickinson just completed her fourth season on. Policewoman hurried off to Tahiti. Do a movie for television. And why where. He started a mini mini series which is scheduled for release this fall. Would you welcome please Ms Dixon. Where your jammies tonight? The those are not do one call. That is that's a calls. It's called what to wear when you're afraid to wear something else really really. I was going to wear another dress tonight but it doesn't look like me so well. It's one of those baggy things that comes and it doesn't look like me but I don't know who to give it to. Can you use terms. Can I you know I gave that up. I'm serious on your record. Why they never forget? We've talked about this off and what to wear when you come on. Johnny showed and I had bought this one for Bob. Hope seventy fifth show in Washington. But then I went to Hawaii instead and couldn't be there and they're waiting for somebody's birthday should come in like montage they do at the opening of your show where they got some great shots of you. Nice looking legs you see and they always have that that shot with a still frame. You're coming down the legs and the script flips and you go. Yeah I was going to give you just the ankle thought if I walked in an address you'd probably faint so aside from the fact that this they looked better. And it's still ridiculous. No it's not funny but dresses today are funny. y'All go along with the designers. I've often thought that the certain amount of designers whether they're Yvonne Law Review Lingerie or whoever it is awesome kind of dictate to women. You know some guys sit around and say hey let's Let's that's happened. Come down to their ankles. Let's come out of the needs. That's what's in and they do it do you. Follow your own dictates whereby go out and buy an and and remember when it came up with all that awful links that it was right about twelve inch or ten inches above the ankle a few years years ago I mean it looked terrible and women were because they put designer said. This is the fashion. There's an extra problem if you don't wear that you have to. There's something not necessarily all to your wife but if it's been seen two or three times it's old in her group rope and so it's different for guys can put on a suit and then maybe ten or it doesn't make any difference and then shirt but women go out and they say oh. I've worn that twice a day themselves. Don't mind but the other people are going to a party and then in Washington it was something you thought was really a knockout and you look over and see some other women wearing an exact same outfit. It's never I've seen that happen ends again. The IT looks like a laser beam. Yeah you can hang your clothes on it in a frosty. They don't know what to say. They both thought they've got this original and it's just what they say to themselves is tomorrow. I'm going to kill the guard. That sold this to me because he he sold it to them on the pretense that it was the only one. There's been no. I borrow them from policewoman. You have that now a lot of people when they do motion picture as you. Well know whether it's a man or a woman have it in the contract and at the end they get the wardrobe and if they have a stunning wardrobe very often you end up at the end of the picture with a knockout to our show. Right after time sweater make the Party circuit on that wardrobe so last night on the show you were climbing up. Probably a rerun clamming rocks with a baby and you're wearing jeans that was it so I've I've about worn out the police wardrobe but now closed hound. I would be if there were more that I liked but I truly don't care for them. You Dress for women. Are you dress for men. I dress spur. Women and undress from the about the best answer. I've ever heard dumb question you know. That's that's a good remark out out of it but you have you have legs. Let's consider not your best year Anatomy it's the thing people look at. Everybody has a certain part of their their body that they Things their best feature true. That is true. Now I'm afraid with me. It smells. I've seen that on those police stores. They write little scenes in their casually. Just you massage parlor. Or you're in the shower or you're lounging at home a little towel. Now that has nothing to do with the plot right right just to take advantage of and I think they're right except I. I just don't think I'm in that good a shape anymore but won't be you know pretty good to me You ever written a scene that you said wait a minute. FELLAS enough is enough. You want me to come out of this completely. Almost acapella Pella. Yes but they didn't survey where the audience didn't want that. Actually they didn't want me playing a streetwalker they liked when I was classy backing so. There was not much problem with that. You know we weren't one of the. What do they call? Call it Jiggle show. That's the terminology for some of. These shows that Jiggle shows which has to do with young ladies the other way to put it against you see that trend a lot starting to think it's harmless got corrupt anybody. I'd rather see that and see somebody take a wire Garrett somebody to death or stabbed them or run the car now. I think it's fine. I like the shows that are fun. Gigli through policewoman yes. Policewoman is going to go at nights the night scene. Now you're going to be showing up. I think so I read that and I show. I don't think you have anything thing to worry about shoes. I suppose you start off the ones that aren't so good though uh-huh anybody it'll be interesting to see what happens at eleven thirty at night because I think a certain a show has a spot. aww A groove. Where where you like to see it and it fits? I'll be interested but I do miss the show but not as much as as I'm loving time off. It's nice to have arrest find new moving. You go do a mini series. Yes I thought about that. But it's never he found out the show was cancelled. It was a good thing I did those shows because now I need product on the air so it worked out fine just Miss Universe contest we do we ever beauty context. I missed that one as I don't know why they're just actress. Landers was one of the judge I want to say. She is a striking looking lady partially under. I mean that ain't chopped liver no. I wasn't a good one ability to beauty contests Miss Universe you know. They don't go into great depth and prove their minds. Exactly I think music is probably the most universal universal appeal. Bob All just have music in our life look I would like to be a brain surgeon. No they're they're they're fun and the girls are Nice but boyfriend of my I daughter. He's only twelve she's twelve. I asked him what he wanted to be because he was very good with my daughter. He said either a psychiatrist or a hairdresser Tair hairdressers are psychiatrists at least in this town. Anyway or go that way. Let me take a break. We're coming back. The talking about entering beauty contest obviously entered some along. You came out from South Dakota. North Dakota came out here and here in California. Somebody obviously said I want you know which I won't say I went into a couple of them and I did all right. I really didn't think I was beautiful. Wonderful enough to enter win but the prizes were so Enticing and lucrative I just said well I might as well try and so I was in one for NBC and six of us one and the prize was nothing we got not changed at all. It's still got chosen as the six most beautiful girls that showed up out of three hundred and that was our pride on a show or anything that was a prize. We we got some pictures in the paper. That wasn't right. It wasn't right but from that I must say one of the persons in the NBC. Group was the judge thought. I was an aspiring actresses. Most girls are who enter contest contests. They didn't realize that was up for what was in it for me on the show and I said Oh I'd love to to just big I'd send Dumb publicity stunts that I remember doing when I first I started in television like Easter comes along and the publicity man says if you just put these big rabbit ears on those days I put the rabbit ears on Mother's Day at stripped down but a diaper on with a baby bottle and years later all of a sudden those pictures surface somewhere you say is this union I know that's not on talking about Valentine's Day and you've got the obligatory bow and Arrow and you're sitting here. Oh awful yet showbusiness. The worst one I think I ever did but now that I remember was going out to a Turkey farm birthing posing I had to walk through the Turkey place and the Turkey stuff. I did it all. I did one of the meanest birds in the world to mean mean birds. Well Amberg is the puppies it Christmas. The hearts of the Easter Bunny always. Oh I see those pictures show up in the one of those histories of television or motion pictures. And here's Angie Dickinson. Miss Tricky picture. When I say Mr I I and usually shows up you know Rona Barrett's fifteen years ago? Here they really were folks. Did you ever used used to make things up in those early days. Because they want to create a biography for you in the studio hands it used to make up weird things just to have a little interest in and they followed me all. Aw I was just lying now. I told the truth is it's fun just to make up weird things like your father was a Malaysian sailor. Met your mother in Singapore. One night you know and you're conceived on a sampan up all kinds of things like that. What that was? That was true in that gates. Yes that's true but then I made up some weird stuff about the column Nebraska and that charge they never made that yardstick. It would make up these terrible things about involvement with animals in the mid West against that. She's I don't know if we should use. I'll say look lonesome back there and you don't have to use it. The guy would go absolutely crazy and I would hold by it up. That's fine you gotta do crazy things matter survival. I four okay. I'm going to do a commercial and then we have bobby. Young Comedian thanksgiving. I I said before comedy is probably the hardest commodity to come by in the entertainment business and this young man has been another television shows. This is his first appearance on tonight. Show he's a favorite places like the comedy store or the improvisation catch a rising star which is New York and he'll be appearing next week. July thirty first. The fifth of August at a similar club in Dayton Ohio Would you greet warmly. Make him feel at home. Please bobby very much. My name is Bobby Kelton in case you don't know me. I have been on many of the major programs. Methadone alcoholics anonymous. I'm a comedian when I was younger. I always wanted to be a doctor my parents you want me to become a comedian. My father said anyone could study medicine. It takes a man to throw his life away. They're very happy that they send me through college and now I'm doing this fact whenever I see them. They say you owe US forty thousand dollars. 'cause my college college career was a complete waste. I used to take all the Mickey Mouse courses. Those are the easy ones. I took things like thallium before the birth of Christ. Winking the man and the car history of Albino. Lifeguards very little work. That course I had an interesting room in college. My roommate was a psychology major. He was researching dreams in fact the last week of classy slept seventeen hours a day so he was cramming for finals. This guy was useless. He could not cook for breakfast. He'd swallow follow a whole egg then during boiling water for three minutes in fact he flunked at a medical school he recommended acupuncture as a Qr for haemophilia. These back east now. He's a toll booth collector in an exact change lane. I recently moved out from New York it to L. A.. And you know one thing I can't get used to California is the mudslides. They have every year when it rains. People losing their homes everything rolling away and the drivers crazy. Easy thing happened to me earlier this year at the height of La's monsoon season. I'm driving down Laurel Canyon. which is this mountain they put in the middle of Hollywood? It's late at night and it's pouring out. I'm doing twenty twenty five miles an hour and this idiot comes up behind me in a house. I mean the guy's right on my tail. He's doing forty five fifty miles an hour. He's splashing his porch lights ringing his doorbell. Now I have a house trying to pass me on the left and coming in the other direction two bedroom apartment with a bumper sticker sticker. I'd rather be skiing so I figure I better get a cop and did you ever notice if you need a cop late at night. You don't call the police station you go to any local old donut shop. That's there hanging. You ever see these. These guys glazed patrolman Jelly lieutenant in the car. Great Your House gets robbed. Generally hoped Karuk stopped for doughnuts in a way home and these cops are very serious. They never smiled. They get up tight if you go over and jokingly pull the guy now to their holster no sense of humor and you ever see the warnings they give you. I was in the post office looking looking at the wanted posters underneath put. This man is armed and extremely dangerous. If you see this man do not take any action now. What are you going to do if you see a murderer on the street? You'RE GONNA go to the guy a face. Let's go citizen's arrest right. You wait here. I'll get a cop. You want any donuts. The funny thing is with all the crime going on. I'm amazed at some of the headlines in the newspapers. I saw one recently. It actually said Ed Birth Control. Race sterilization edging out the pill. I mean to me it sounded like the Kentucky Derby. I started reading a racetrack announcer answer. And they're off out in the middle of the track. It's sterilization in front. The pill is sick and I have a headache is third and cutting and cutting the lead and its bads Zek to me on the sterilization the pill neck and neck a big loud no oh on the inside and rhythm is dead last the wire. It sterilization appeal to me in a dead heat and the winner by a long long-shot is homosexuality. I hear Bobby the funniest nice style east. He should do very good. Thank hey hope tune in every week for a new show. We've got new guests and some first time appearances by some big name so make a point of sitting with us and listening to the Johnny Carson. Show podcast on a regular basis to subscribe. You hit the button button and you can also download the podcast from wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Johnny Johnny Joe Bobby Kelton Johnny Carson Angie Dickinson Los Angeles California Bobby Kelton MacAulay Hollywood Mickey Rooney New York Donny Osmond Many Times Richard Nixon Getty Museum Washington Johnny Eh NBC Deerfield beach US
NPR News: 10-28-2019 9PM ET

NPR News Now

04:52 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 10-28-2019 9PM ET

"Learn more at nature's way dot com live from NPR news in Washington I'm Jack Speer on Capitol Hill Speaker support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from nature's way maker of winter remedies like Sam bouquets elderberry dummies. It's not just our way it's nature's way miss declared a state of emergency ten thousand homes and businesses near the Getty Museum of been evacuated as a raging wildfire moves westward through Canyon Ridge Line gas-electric now says more than six hundred thousand customers will lose power and twenty nine Northern California counties starting tomorrow nearly two hundred thousand people have been evacuated one the move comes despite president trump's frequent diatribes against Salvadoran immigrants as murderous ms thirteen gang members the tiny Central American republic has voted it is unclear if passage of the resolution will change White House Strategy Susan Davis NPR news the Capitol the federal government is announcing a year long extension this is NPR but his prime minister Boris Johnson is grudgingly agreeing to accept the three-month related the UK's moved to leave the European Union Parts Salvadoran official said their citizens in the US now have another year to secure lawful residency or citizenship but the trump administration cautions a public hearings the release of deposition transcripts and the due process rights for president trump the White House and congressional Republicans have criticized Democrats for not authorizing the we signed agreements to limit asylum-seekers passing through its territory on the way to the US border another agreement directs US federal immigration agents to train their Salvadoran counter impeachment inquiry with a full House vote as Congress did during the Clinton impeachment neither the Constitution nor house rules requires that but it gave Republicans a unifying talking actives took her tail immigration from Central America the reprieve will allow nearly two hundred and fifty thousand Salvadorans to continue living and working in the US until January twenty twenty Republicans for how they've handled the process of the investigation thus far here's NPR's Susan Davis in a letter to house Democrats Pelosi says the House will vote to establish procedures the agreement is not an indefinite extension rather it's an orderly wind down period John Burnett NPR news fires continue to burn in California where Governor Gavin newsom going to attack the inquiry the vote plan for Thursday aims in part to diminish that criticism so far the White House has refused to comply with the investigation because the house had not before the new deadline legendary film producer died over the weekend the age of eighty nine Robert Evans is best known for changing the fortunes of paramount of temporary protected status for more than two hundred thousand Salvadorans who've been living in the US is NPR's John Burnett explains the announcement comes as El Salvador has been cooperating with aggressive us and pictures starting in the late nineteen sixties NPR's Neda Ulaby has this remembrance property Devon's wait Hollywood through acting he was spotted in a hotel Abra hoods Los Angeles Mayor Eric. Garcetti says it's critical they start to contain the fire now we hope to make progress today we hope to make deep progress over the next twenty four hours wherever Johnson who said that Britain would lead the at the end of this month deal or no deal says he's going to do it against his will the same time he called an easy regulators to grant no more did their stocks continued to March higher today the Dow up one hundred and thirty two points to twenty seven thousand ninety the Nasdaq rose eighty two points the S&P was up sixteen points a delays the latest move would delay Britain's exit from the EU known as Brexit until January thirty first UK would be able to leave earlier though deal secured by the British prime minister because we need that progress before Wednesday Wednesday is when we have those Santa Anas blowing even stronger cruiser also battling wildfires to the north in California Wine Country Pacific hip at paramount from nineteen sixty six to nineteen seventy-four yielded hit after blockbuster hit Rosemary's baby love story Romeo and Juliet and the Godfather then Anssi Pelosi says the house will vote this week on a resolution outlining the next steps in the ongoing impeachment inquiry Democrats have faced heavy criticism from the colorful autobiography was made into a documentary in two thousand and two Netto Lippi. NPR News Worcester is air force space plane is back on the ground following swimming pool by the wife of an old time movie mogul out of his the guy's been around this business as long as me and concil dog about a that's Evans on whyy's fresh air in one thousand nine hundred four his leader breaking two year mission the plane known as the x thirty seven B lending at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida over the weekend there forces remained mom about the planes mission mm Chinatown there are very nosy fellow dominated for Eleven Academy Awards a cocaine Sin Derailed Evans Life. He wrote in his acclaimed memoir. The kid stays in the picture.

NPR NPR US Robert Evans Anssi Pelosi prime minister Boris Johnson White House White House European Union Parts Salvadora John Burnett Susan Davis California Governor Gavin newsom Getty Museum trump Jack Speer president Neda Ulaby
A fake Gauguin at the Getty

The Art Newspaper Weekly

48:41 min | 8 months ago

A fake Gauguin at the Getty

"It's the newspaper podcast with me. Ben Luke thanks for listening this week. We're looking at a gauguin fake in the Getty Museum can McMahon's dramatic new paintings. Thanks for the Great Hall at the Metropolitan Museum of art in New York and a show about art. And Food Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge before we begin just a reminder that you can sign up for a free the daily newsletter to read all the latest news go to the newspaper Dot Com and click on the link at the top right of the page now. The latest print edition of the art newspaper is just out on. The front page is a fascinating story in which we learned that. A carving of a whole devil bought by the J Paul Getty Museum in Los Angeles as a sculpture by Paul. Gauguin is in fact. Act Not genuine head with horns which fetched a record. Price for Gauguin's culture probably around three million dollars has just been downgraded to being by an unknown artist and relegated relegated to the storeroom correspondent Martin. Bailey wrote the story and I spoke to him in our London office. Martin I wonder if we might begin by. Are you telling us how you got involved in the sculpture. Because it's been something you've been focused on for quite some time yes. I've always been intrigued. By Gauguin's sculptures paintings are so well known the sculptures the very imaginative and I don't think they quite detention to they deserved so I was particularly interested in this new one which appeared when the getty bought it and interestingly enough when the director announced the acquisition. She said that Gauguin's Sculpture Elsa is exceedingly rare. This intriguing work stands out as superb example. Will it certainly in creaking. And that's what made me want to dig into it and I'm normally very loyal to the newspaper but on this occasion I wanted to do a ready detail. Peace with footnotes. I wrote a piece for Apollo. Oh ten years ago questioning what this really walls and there were three possibilities one is this. It is indeed a genuine Gauguin's sculpture which causes what the Getty said what they paid for the other possibility. Another possibility is that it was made by Polynesian sculptor. Not Go go but it was made in the southeast and the third possibility is that it was actually made by the European. So that's what I set out to try and look at the puzzle Tron. Solve it to what were the an issue Grounds to link to Gauguin into assert that it was a gauguin's coacher. Yes now the. There are two photographs of the sculpture which appear in Gauguin's notebook which is called Noah or Noah which he wrote in around eighteen thousand nine so it was in his own notebook it was obviously a very important sculpture for him and it had had always been assumed the with be made by Gogo but the sculpture had actually disappeared and Mitt. It not being seen all we had with a face graphs of it in Gauguin's album now in nine hundred ninety seven sculpture southernly surfaced and appeared in an exhibition in France so we actually had the physical object and it was some years afterwards Five years afterwards that it was bought by the getty and the they haven't disclaimer is the price but The being reports that it was between three and five million dollars which would actually be record. Price for Gauguin's sculpture. Is it right that they actually actually accord the getty actually aquatic wall. It was on display another museum. It was actually on display at the Metropolitan Museum of art in New York in a go gang suspicion commission when they bought it but they'd obviously been negotiating quietly behind the scenes from some months before and it is interesting that this work has been accepted by the world's leading museums. I mean the tate put on a fantastic gauguin retrospective in two thousand eleven. They showed it and that retrospective respective went onto the National Gallery of art in Washington where it was shown and then I think it was two thousand fifteen. The Museum of Modern Art in New York Walk showed it so it has been very widely exhibited by the wills talk museums. So when when you wrote that article in two thousand nine for Polo will you casting doubt on the beach. And then were there doubts in the in this kind of dog and scholarship at that time well hasn't really been published doubts. But I did talk to a number of Google and specialists about it. And it's the most curious object The head itself is very smoothly carved which you find in some Gauguin's sculpture. But in general he takes a rougher approach and the top is Sandalwood The most unusual unusual base to it which is as large as a hedge itself. And we don't know any other Gauguin's sculptures which have this sort of a huge base to it and the base is interesting enough probably a found object. It's the piece of architecture which has been removed and used in another context. Now that's quite interesting arrest but on the other hand Gauguin was very imaginative artist. So it's sort of thing that he might have done. The found objects emerged rather later in on the twentieth century. And so it's also curious because there's quite a severe crack in the head and wants doing a smoothly carved piece of Sculpture wouldn't already want the finest wood one could get and So the the object is curious but Durga sculpture a so unusual and so many different sorts of material he used ceramics and wood set. Didn't rule it out. But the reason why I already questioned it when I was writing about it was an illustration I found in a book published in France in one thousand nine hundred thirty on the art of the colonies. Is the French colonists. This book could not been cited in the Gauguin Literature. So I'm not sure that any of the other specialists had seen it and there's a photograph which is is the same as the one in the gauguin album and it's what is interesting is the caption. And I got the book here and it's caption markes. Islands islands of which is where Gauguin was working. And then it says idol adult in French and the photo credit says colonial department so obviously in the nineteenth century it was assumed to be a Polynesian sculpture. And not a Gogo. Oh God so that raised serious questions in my mind will in addition to it possibly being a gauguin with two other options one was that it was made made by Polynesian. But I taught quite a lot of specialists in the art of Tahiti and Markes Nyland's and they said this work is nothing thing to do with a local sculptor and in any case it's got horns like a devil and the in their culture they don't see Safaga so it wasn't a traditional piece of Polynesians culture but there was a sort of option on that one too because it could have been made for European pin market. I mean it's what we might call. Airport are now something to sell to tourists who think this is what Polynesian Arches which is like so that was one possibility and another possibility is it was carved by European. And and there's a French specialist Who collects third graphs of Tahiti in the nineteenth century? He's very interesting Gogo. Angry fabry's four one ma and and and his theory is that it was actually carved by a European Walea. An apparently whaling ships were going all over the Pacific. The sailors didn't have much approach to do whilst they were at sea and they often stopped Into Hiti partly because the often rather went for the local women at this go candid and the theory of breezes theory is that it was caused by Walea so we have all these different possibilities especially the key thing is. When did the doubt setting at the getty? Well there was a new curator analyst. Damar who arrived in two thousand and eight said this was well after the purchase. And she's now working on a very detailed catalog Grayson. A of the Getty Sculpture Collection. Says she was looking into a fresh and she had not been involved in the purchase so she had a more open mind and full marks to the getty. They've been quite quite open about it and she's been open about it and the in that published catalogue. They're not going to do. They can describe it as maker unknown and but there is an important bit of new evidence which emerged a few years ago because officials graph album with veg- golf's by Agostini. Who is a French photographer? Welcome to Hiti emerged and was bought by the Musee Du Cape Rolling in Paris and that photograph of this sculpture is also captioned as an a polynesian I dole and a one khanate the photograph because of the other. I Call Austin album and the third guards were actually taken and in eighteen ninety four which was the year before Gauguin returned and he was is in Paris so that was really the concluding evidence that it was not agom. So we're left with the mystery of this intriguing object As to who really made it. It's an important object. I should stress an. It's writes in a museum because it was very greatly admired by Gogo so in in that sense it's very important. He drew it either. There there was a very powerful doing that. He made him which they sort of figure looms behind a woman. Exactly now. You're quite right. It was a very important influence on Gauguin and it meant a great deal Him He presumably believed that it was a traditional channel at two Haitian sculpture and It was a motif which he brought into his own are. So that's why it's important and that's why It's wonderful that the object is at a public museum and not hidden away in a private collection. So is that it now. It's rea resigned to not being Gauguin. It's still in the collection as you say but are there any further repercussions of this could getty seek recompense from those in the Wildenstein Gallery. I presume Jim. We're assuming that everybody acting good faith and therefore there's no possibility of further action. That could be taken yes. That's a difficult question. I'm sure the getty is looking closely. At what the switch of the legal situation recently they've also will sign gallery about the professionals and where it should been before they acquired before the galleria client it an all all it being told that it was with a Swiss private collector. So we don't really know where it came from and it's a mystery where it's been for a hundred years since when it was craft in Tahiti so they sort of discussions will be continuing. And in the meantime the sculpture has not not being banished to the Stolz and presumably will not be requested for Gauguin retrospectives from now onwards. But one hopes uh-huh specialist will do more study of the work and maybe aunts a bit more about the puzzle with facing. Well I think people can expect to read Northern Illinois newspaper in that. Thank you very much thank you. You can read the full story at the newspaper Dot Com now the Canadian multimedia artist Kent Monckton who cree first. Nations heritage is the inaugural autists artist in a new series at the Metropolitan Museum of art in New York in which contemporaries create pieces inspired by the museum's collection which then shown in the midst Great Hall is quite literally elite monklands biggest project yet a of massive almost seven meters long paintings Graham veiled in the Great Hall in December titled Mr Kazi Weck Wooden Boat people a reverse our histories colonial gaze by reimagining the traditional white settlers narrative through indigenous is Margaret Coggan of new york-based editors went to meet mcman at at the met and spoke to him about appropriating the European tradition of grant history painting critiquing. The colonial origins of encyclopedic museums. The met from within a monk. Men's indigenous gender fluid time traveling alter-ego Mischief Egotistical Margaret began by asking came about his beginnings in art as an abstract painter. I actually trained as Zinni illustrator. But because I had this training in representational work I thought re largest worked as a at or abstraction was like kind of the highest form of painting that there it was so I kind of turned away from my training I mean I made a living in my early years doing storyboards for TV commercials. But that wasn't my art practice and I thought anything representational is not real art. So therefore I'm GonNa make be an abstract painter and a sort of self taught that way and So for ten years ten twelve years I basically just push paint around but I learned so much about paint because you know the formal aspects of painting are so deeply interesting and fascinating. You know you learn about color in transparency and all these wonderful qualities that make painting such facinating medium and that was really my entry into painting But after doing that for us it was more like twelve or fifteen years. I realized that abstract painting is a very personal vocabulary. It's very insular insular language And the themes that were interesting to me That have to do with colonization because I'm an indigenous. This person I'm cre- Were were sort of Secondary to to the you know this abstract language painting I I found that limited language of painting was very ineffective to communicate. So that's when I kinda move towards Representational image making again. Because I really got interested in the art. History of this continent of North America The settler artists that came here and were looking at indigenous people and the land the landscape of North America and I thought well much of their work is so problematic matic. Because it's you know this story of this continent is being lands through these settler artists. And they're looking at US and they're bringing all of their biases their ignorance since there Romantic ideas of indigenous people should be and the art history that exists on this continent has has pretty much told from. It's pretty much toll from this one very narrow perspective. So that's when I decided to really put effort into you began by emulating the works of these nineteenth century landscape painters like Albert Beer Stein. And populate these scenes with you know indigenous narratives gives to upend that Strong subjectivity of their work. And then once I started doing that I realized that there was this much much deeper more interesting more sophisticated language of painting that was actually much harder to get strong grasp of and that of course led let me to the old masters and then larger and larger format paintings history paintings and once I landed at the genre of history paintings. That's when I realized that we you know. Indigenous experiences don't exist in this Canon of art history at all So that really kind of set me on on a path off to to to my current work so that raises a really interesting question for me. Because you're kind of like your conception that you're doing your accepting history with with these indigenous narratives and in what ways is appropriating this visual language of old masters and European centric forms forms and traditions of painting in what ways that also kind of appropriating European culture and Western culture to your ends and does that bring up any kind of like ideological schisms for you not really because you know as indigenous artists. We're we're all well first of all we've been contact with with European cultures for five hundred years so there's been a back and forth exchange already for for hundreds of years indigenous people. We don't live in bubbles. We we don't live in a vacuum. We have been absorbing so much from you. Know the the the European settler cultures that have been intermingling with us and so the indigenous artists that I look to that have inspired me are incredible. You know composers their novelist. They're filmmakers. They're they're using languages. A AH vocabularies in different genres and mediums to express indigenous eighty and. That's all I'm really doing with paint is. I'm using probably the most sophisticated form of painting that there is is And it is European in origin. But you know as a person I basically I've just looked at. I've watched this trajectory of Western art history. And I have been curious to why it's been discarded because it is actually the most sort of sophisticated language Of Painting there has ever been. I mean the modernist started to sort of reduce the language of painting to kind of smaller and smaller vocabularies. But you know the grand tradition of history painting and the possibility for narratives and exploring human experience emotion. I mean it's it's this really dynamic vibrant vocabulary repainting that has just kind of been discarded so I thought well is an indigenous person. That's kind of what's happened. To our our own cultures their own languages it's been you know. A European modernism was all about a blank slate. You know in the Europeans came here like blank slate. But that's been essentially devastating to indigenous people because we didn't want to lose our cultures. Didn't want to lose their languages. which is so by kind of resurrecting the dead tradition from you know Western art history? I've I see the value. I see the value of this language. Painting to authorize into art history indigenous experience both historical and contemporary and it's a powerful medium. I mean I wouldn't be a painter if I didn't believe in the possibility in the power of painting to move people you know I I've stood in front of you know history paintings in the product and I've been moved moved to tears because of the power of these paintings that were made one hundred fifty years ago and it's different than looking at a photograph. I mean photographs have their place. They have their place. Certainly photography has its placing my studio but for me. It's not the end result. It's IT'S A it's a stage towards its tool towards the end result. Which is painting because I believe that painting is who is incredibly powerful and can be harnessed for for for very complex to explore complex messages and themes? So you're tackling fling. The legacy of colonization head on in this commission for the mets Great Hall because you are also referencing. Kind of the encyclopedic institution even as as a function of this Westernization and kind of glossing over all of these other indigenous traditions and they invited you to actually respond to incorporate things from their own collection into these works. You've created so maybe talk a little bit about how you tackled tackled a institution like this and how you source the works you wanted to reference and what was important in sourcing those specific works and maybe just kind of give us a broad strokes idea of what the two paintings that you've created look like so. I've been working with museum collections mostly in Canada a couple in the United States over the last couple of decades and my program. There was to really unpack the are again unpacked the art history of the colonial mind the settlers that came here and we're making making images that really shaped how both countries saw themselves. You know those myths about country That were described in the art. It works By the nineteenth century artists that were like George Catlin that we're capturing images of indigenous people and there are certain themes that have have arisen In in my own work that I've been challenging and one of them. Well of course is like you know pure fantasy. Just because he's a lot of these people Were were were. We're really just channeling their own cultures Ideas and fantasies about indigenous people at that time the also really believed that they were watching shing the extinction of indigenous people Catlin you know went on and on about that. And he called it contamination when he saw an indigenous person Jason wearing anything that was you know remotely European in its origin whether it was clothing. Or what have you but indigenous people from the other point of view Are See that purely as just like innovation and you know moving towards new new things So I was already familiar with the process of looking at museum collections. And I've done that a few times in Canada Eh Exhibition. That's completing a three year tour. Shame and prejudice and that was really to look at at twelve museums. What was in the what what are in the museums and that are telling the story of of our country so here the met comes and says would you like to do a a com- a sort of collection based project and again? It was an opportunity. Eighty two to register to to sort of settle my gaze on what the art of this institution is telling the world about indigenous people and looking for those gaps. Well there there are gaps Most of what we find in institutions are you know The mainstream institutions of this continent continent is still very much from that colonial point of view that cloning perspective institutions like the mad and other museums around. This country are very much about you. Know Western art collecting things from other cultures. And and you know they become these repositories of other cultures but very rarely are the people of those cultures allowed to interact and update. You know how the how the audience is actually interact with those objects. And so I saw this as an opportunity opportunity to to ask questions About representation and to you know Identify some of those works of art whether their sculptures or paintings that again bring forward some of these ideas that are that have been very reductive about indigenous people people so I turned my eye to to Saint Gaudens Hiawatha for instance which very much resembles Rodin's Adam and and And then you know dying Mexican girl Again reinforcing the idea of extinction delic was the nachos as you know Reinforcing this idea of the extinction that little baby being born in that Painting again extensively the last of its kind. Where so what I did with my project was take those references and invigorate them? Breathe life into them. These you know and make them into living things people that are that. Have a future. You know that grouping of the mother father and baby become a celebration of life so when when when when a young couple who has a baby they're not thinking about the extinction of their kind. They're celebrating the The extension of of of their kind. Find the life going forward into the future and and so That that that image of of that that Birth that new life is Mirrored in both paintings this idea of birth and Rewriting of like the Genesis Tale essentially for North America in so many anyways is also something that really comes to bear in one of the two paintings which is the composition is really highly based on a manual. It's Washington crossing the Delaware which is an iconic American images. You know George Washington out there defeating the British like this is the birth of the American nation and what you've done is populated waited the whole thing with indigenous peoples. Where did you draw the indigenous people from? And how did you decide to. What does that say about American? The the birth birth of America and how it was borne by including them within that compositional framework. So when I see paintings like that again it's just essentially recalls the one-sidedness in terms of how the foundational myths of both countries have just gone into popular thinking and how You know Washington is of course a hero for the United States but from the point of view of an indigenous person. You know he perpetuated genocide. I mean he was a slave holder. I mean there's different ways of looking looking at George Washington but the thing that was remarkable about that painting is it's the scale of it it's monumental and so Washington Shington in that painting is becomes as mythical character and so I wanted to make history paintings featuring indigenous people that Carey that same weight and authorize indigenous experiences into this Canon of history but sort of positioning them in in these heroic paintings. We've been talking about all the figures within your work and there's a key one that we haven't mentioned yet that I wanNa talk to you about which is your gender fluid time traveling indigenous US sex deity that is your alter ego known as Mischief Eagle Testicle And she peers in both. These works correct and and a lot of your work. So can you tell us a little bit about where she came from and what her role is within your paintings and as kind of like a narrator for this rewritten history that you're building for sure. Well I've never heard anyone describe her as a sex deity but I like it next. See I find a sexy Eh. You know I created that character to actually To to represent an empowered perspective of indigenous this sexuality to decolonize our sexuality to decolonize this thing this limited understanding of gender and you know Europeans arrived here with a very binary scenery way of understanding male female gender but You know in indigenous cultures all throughout North America we had people that lived between the genders and the other is a contemporary term for two spirited but essentially it was it was a way of understanding There could be a person between two genders and You know we. We didn't have shame voter sexuality. We didn't have shame about our bodies. And so you know these are. These are things that we learned from the Europeans. And so I wanted a create this persona. That could feel very empowered in in her body. Feel very empowered in her sexuality. ACTU- -ality and this person is both male and female in one body that the two spirits of male and female. But I also created her. Because I wanted to have this persona that could reverse versus the gays and you know be looking back at Europeans. Because we've been looking at Europeans as long as Europeans have been looking at us and he just wanted to run remind nine people that it's been a two way street you know for the last five hundred years but you certainly don't see that in in a museum like the met and So it was really about just just reversing the gaze and having this very strong empowered person that that that drew from our traditions of acceptance and that openness that we had two words understanding gender sexuality misty because he was a wooden boat people by Kevin McMahon is at the Metropolitan Museum of art in New York until the ninth of April the Solo Exhibition Shame and prejudice. A story of resilience is at the Winnipeg Art Gallery until the night. The ferry and then travels to the Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver opening on the eighth of May among the installation the rise and fall of civilization goes on permanent display. The Glenn Beck Museum in Calgary. From the third of February he details of all of mountains future exhibitions at CANC. Men Dot com now. Before we begin to indulge in art and food here a few the top stories on our website this week in conversation about the art market. On last week's podcast. We mentioned any short article on the increasing visibility commercial galleries sponsors of museum shows in the UK. Well Annie's investigation. This issue is now online and at the art newspaper Dot Com while museums. Tell her that they are quote strict on any by market players and not involved in curatorial decision. Making the trade are much more open about the blurring of lines as the London. A new york-based dealer price gust. It says quote certain galleries work closely with curator's suggests that those institutions consider mounting in an exhibition of an artist. Sometimes there's a commercial interest in them doing that. Therefore they motivated to make sure an exhibition takes place. Hong Com is indefinitely closing its puppet museums in a bid to contain the corona virus which developed in Woo Hoo by province in late December and at the time of recording is killed around one hundred six people as China correspondent. Lisa movies writes. The outbreak is also concerns about these edition of Art Basel in Hong Kong. Should you around. From the nineteenth to the twenty first of March judge that event as we heard last week's podcast has already prompted worries about the protests and police brutality ongoing city since last summer spokesman for Art Basel totally said that they're monitoring the corona virus developments closely but added that at this stage. It's too early to say honey. Outbreak will affect and our correspondent reapply prior reports. That deal is at the first new K.. Fair of the year the London. Art Fair somewhat perplexed as to what. UK Money Laundering Regulations will mean for day to day business and the Neal's galleries have to conform to a much higher standard of J. Diligence in confirming a client's identity when making a sale of ten thousand years or more the new regulations include requesting to documents such as possible before doing a deal as we rights not easily done in the context of a busy art fair one anonymous dealer admitted to lowering the price of under the ten thousand years threshold to avoid dealing with the new regulations. You can read only stories and more at the art newspaper Dot Com or an APP for IOS. which can get it from the APP store now? An exhibition about food in European culture in the period fifteen hundred to eighteen hundred opened at the end of last year. At the Fitzwilliam Museum in in Cambridge it includes more than three hundred exhibits and features spectacular historical reconstructions by food store in Ivan Day including Jacob Sugar banquet a European feasting table and a Georgian confectioners workshop among other things that aim of the show is to explore how issues relating to food in previous centuries remain hot topics today. I went Cambridge to speak to Victoria. Every one of the curator of the show Vicki it seems to me really pertinent moment to be exploring this this ace territory because food is so important to what we're thinking about. Tens of climate change in terms of in terms of the excesses of our current age. So was that a factor in you deciding to do the show absolutely so my colleague Dr Calories though is a historian of culture and food in the modern world. I'm a renaissance ops person and we find that often with our visitors. They find it hard to get into boring boring early materials that fifteen hundred eighteen hundred and we felt that actually want to do with. The show is taped people journey backwards so we acknowledged as you cannot open Japan. A paper what's to tell you. Listen to the radio without hang something about food. Whether it's brexit related food security issues with its food poverty and food banks and supermarkets wasting food whether it's David attenborough cambridge alumni plastic in the oceans. Or whatever it is so people are absolutely rightly concerned about inequalities about food provisioning. Whatever so we thought okay? Actually knowing the early modern period many any of these concerns issues anxieties have if they're not absolutely identical they have parallels or they have their roots in the early modern period. So we thought okay let let us material culture wonderful artworks to take people on a journey back so we start from the present we acknowledge in our introductory panel some of these issues and and say come with us on a journey back three four five hundred years and after hopefully the peregrination of almost three hundred objects people will understand the background to these anxieties. And then there's a zone at the end. The relaxed reflect responsive where people will hatefully have a chance to mull over some of their concerns. There's a feedback form and hopefully the idea is they will be absolutely transformation that maybe when visitors or going around the supermarket and and they actually see the fact you can buy a pineapple for seventy five P or quit when used to be the most exclusive luxury exotic inverted commas. Food throw table. How how has this come to be? And let's talk about that pineapple because this is a great glorious moment in the show the pipe who has enormous totemic significance instance distance. Doesn't it because it's like. It literally was involved in decorating buildings at the time or that kind of thing so it became this amazingly important object. Why yes I think? The shape is actually incredibly beautiful. Thought that it has these flourishing leaves the top. It looks a little bit like a crown as often known as the king of the fruits acquainted the fruits. It's the princess of the fruit. And I think the lovely rich color of the skin with all saver attract but of course you open it up at the sweet smell and the absolutely delicious taste aced that people find it very hard to describe in words this beautiful it tastes like rosewater and sugar mixed together or whatever but for the Fitzwilliam Museum Cambridge. There are these very very specific pineapple links so we are proudly celebrating in one of our paintings three hundred years of pineapple growing in in England. We have a portrait officer. Matthew deckers pineapple the king of the crop flourishing in English eaten there was painted in seventeen twenty and who with Massey Decker none other than our founders grandfather and he was a wealthy Dutch merchant and he can find out the British crown. He comes thank from Amsterdam around seventeen hundred by the huge estate in Richmond upon Thames and being a proud dot in interested horticultural as he thinks. Okay the dots. Dr Been growing this tropical fruit in temperate European climates. They've been beating Mother Nature. They've been doing it in Holland. The last thirty forty years I want to do the same for England so he starts growing with his incredibly brilliant Dutch gardeners attender with lots some not so money thrown at the project. He's able to grow pineapples in Richmond upon Thames. What this speaks to sort of breadth of O.? J. Is that you're really exploring the variety of ways in which food impacted the culture right across the board from from from our stock crecy dance a people living living and working. Can you tell us something about that. Because a social political aspect is very important. Yes it is so I think I'm the period that we're dealing with fifteen hundred to eighteen eighteen hundred and you're over the at that point absolutely includes Britain. We're saying is that a lot of these concerns anxieties about food. They have a lot of them. Fundamentally there's there's the religious aspect to them that to the notion is that perhaps I man man is created by God wandering around the Garden of Eden actually is it's Vegan or indeed vegetarian because God creates Adam then he creates the animals and they are Adams friends and he names them and then he says actually I want a different companion so god creates eve the idea that all the food in the garden of Eden is fruit and of course we all know about the full when they eat the forbidden apple from the Trey but actually in paradise man is friendly with the animals. He doesn't kill them and he's he's he's basically and then of course the full happens. Man On is condemned for alternative to work for his food and then he becomes a meat eater so this idea that actually there are a lot of theological arguments that run from some Francis and we have a wonderful namesake. Later on and San Francesco powder. He is the patron saint of vegans and Vegetarians heave off founds a Franciscan based order called the minimums around the middle of the fourteen hundred sixty new very very early saying we will take the three normal vows of chastity poverty and Abedian the fourth vow is known meat eating non dairy producer. They want exploit animals so there's a theological logistical argument. Very very strongly through and then of course we move onto medicine and health and the body of the humor's if you are phlegmatic he should avoid eating too much fish if you're an invalid if you are a birthing mother if you are a young infant certain types of food or more appropriate to you so often even the food choices what to eat and what not to eat is based on earlier it falls. Medicine really compacting galen and people like that Roman or ancient. I'm greg all have their roots. And it moves through to Rene Saenz and sort of early modern period you've also got political agendas again about who has access excess to the food WHO's controlling at the end of the show. There's a lot about the the poor law and the bread assizes it has very riveria covered resonances with the political situation today about there's Gil Ray. Criticizing corrupt politicians for sitting on on on food supplies and making food inaccessible too expensive for the majority. So I think this political end pyschological is also very interesting or indeed the idea of national stereotypes that ultimately end up being quite racist about things. Things like say often. The French might cost nowadays logos beef love eating beef. Actually that goes back to the sixteenth and seventeenth century got an engraving of Hogarth Odio Roast beef of England or in a in a more maybe less politicized way. But the idea of wealthy Zeke leak going off to Italy in the eighteenth century they. They adopt Italian fashions. They learn the language they loved it on food and then they come back. Kingland the go. I'm not gonNA eat boring beef now. I'm a macaroni man. And they always adaptation immense around and they only any talion food and there are nine macaroni men. Because there's this idea that actually the foreign. The exotic exciting is somehow better than your local your local fair while we're on the subject of Italy we have to talk about the cook. Kanye because you you sort of reconstructed in in in Reproduction Form Echo Canyon which is sort of arch food to Elizabeth Kenya's yes so in a way the idea of theater and spectacle around food and a little bit about access and who owns what so. There's a tradition initially but particularly in Naples that starts off from the sixteenth century onward off at high days and holidays. Perhaps around around carnival. Time when you get the idea of the world turned upside down all paths during celebrations of rulers order. They they would erect is temporary architectural structures. May Be a basis of wood and plaster but then they would hang off the structures real foodstuffs so we thought it would be amusing to allow the public. They're SORTA sensation of being in politics around sixteen twenty nine and actually walking through through one of these archways sadly is just a two dimensional painted representation. But it's taken from tiny print in a book celebrating the Viceroy of Naples who had just finished his. Tenure is one of a number of stops on this processional route but we thought let's blow up this during two life size so it's an archway way. Constructed over a whole range of wheels of Parmesan cheese bread loaves Salamis sausages. Even a couple of suckling pigs with I'm a chiefs in their mouth out of which fireworks would project and the idea was that it was a center of largess S. of magnificence munificence on the part of the rulers and not the end of a couple of data signal would be given and the poor of Naples goals would be allowed to literally deconstructed all run like crazy and they would attack the arches and they would be able to eat the food and then take some of it home but what happens over time. Is that the everybody wants to outdo everybody else. Everything has to be bigger and better news in the last year so by the time get the eighteenth century we had these rather horrific description. We're actually not just cured. Sausage meat or cheeses actually have live animals as part of his Gargantuan rather grotesque actually structures and even live birds pin by their wings so tourists would come along and not to be rather pulled it was supposed to be a glorious spectacle but some of the British tourists they right thing ashes appalling disgusting thing. I my appetite has been an awfully turned off watching. These poor impulse rushed starved am citizens being allowed to attack these poor animals. So it doesn't that he put anybody in a good light in the end. I think you weren't very nicely with ideas of on the one hand us all to splendor and a sort of an enticing seduction and then on the other hand disgust 'em ethical dilemma. And let kind of thing. I think that's really wet very well. Dumb in the point the point in the show where there is a social construction of a confections affections window and then right next to that you have aspects relating to slavery and the production of sugar this clear intent on yours to play with the view he was sort of emotional and ethical response to food right. Yes I think that food choices have always had an ethical edge to to them and the show we're trying to explain to people about most of P was about the the the the production of food the provisioning food how dropping food into cities in in the period the preparation of food the preserving food because of course at that time. You can't beat the season to have to have some stuff in real then the presentation of food but the idea that the production of food there are some very positive things about that. I mean maybe horticultural innovation at this. He's like data of actually being able to grow tropical pineapple in the temperate climates of all of Europe through through man's innovation and horticultural an cleverness fine that the flip side is that there is sadly a lot of exploitation infra production. So you get. Christopher Columbus is going off discovering the new world. There's a lot of competition the Portuguese Spanish. The French the English everybody's added. They want to colonize and exploit the new world for material gain. Because of course. There's a demand for these in these exotic these luxurious new foodstuffs and the Europeans. Come over and they take advantage of the native populations and of course there. Is this very very sad. And shameful aspect of food production for example as you've mentioned about the sugar production where many West Staff Africans were enslaved and sold against their will forced to work under pulling conditions on these European owned and managed sugar plantations in order to bring back the sacred white stuff that all Europeans wanted on their table. So we were very kane in the exhibition to explain in about the problem. Matic's of production. Say We do have from John's College Library in John's is you. May Know is the college. Where William Wilberforce Clarkson were students and they have a big collection about anti slavery and about the Abolition Movement mm-hmm and they're quite a few years ago letters that were typical actually of Europeans owning sugar plantations? Now we're not I'm trying to particularly ostracize. One Gentleman Will William Perrin who owned five or six plantations Jamaica. But he is an he's he's one offer bove any number of European only plantations and the letters explain enrolling callous matter-of-fact terms about the acquisition of enslaved people to run the sheikh applaud when they talk about the harvest and they talk about the weather. They talk talk talk about car going but all in the same breath and then just along long this particular it quite hard hitting display. We have this guilt. Reprint of two soldiers in a suite shock in confections window window the actual printers about is a political comment. Actual Nitin Napoleonic wars soldiers but the reason we've actually included here is is because the background sitting in Kelsey very upend London confectionery shop. And you've got pineapples in the window and fruit and all with Sort of glassware. That high end confections would either hire or rent out. And they're sitting there eating whip syllabus and sugar what they called Sugar Plums could almond and we thought to be rather well. The juxtaposition of the three months between the letter being written and the print coming out was actually kind of H.. The and I thought would merely make people think and also allowed us then to bring in wonderful Ivan Day the food historian and to make one of his re-creations and all of a late Georgian confectioners window that people could lychee and stick their noses the gates and drool at the twelfth cakes and that the sugar plums and and so on Vicky thank you so much joining us. Thank you feast East and fast food in Europe. Fifteen hundred to eighteen hundred is at the William Museum in Cambridge until the twenty sixth of April as I mentioned the print edition of the art newspaper is out now and you can subscribe the newspaper. Come Click on the subscribe link at the top left of the homepage. If you haven't already subscribed to this podcast please do. And if you've even -joyed lever rating or review the newspaper podcast is produced by Julian Housekeeping Dawson and David Clark and David USA does the editing. Thanks to Martin to Margaret Britain. Kent to Victoria. And thank you for listening. We'll see you next week when we'll be looking at radical figures the new figurative Painting Exhibition White Chapel Gallery in London

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40: Ned's Stolen Identity

The TryPod

1:01:43 hr | 8 months ago

40: Ned's Stolen Identity

"The ramble pay their world old. Welcome to the TRIPOD. TRIPODS are stands with three legs that you can put something on top of to hold it and just just like that. I am currently being supported by thirty three legs. We got like number one wobble wobble while we got like number our two. Oh Hi there. And we got leg numbered three wrong as an ox. And of course we're also joined by miles bonsignore whose operating this current tripod a A tilt on the trip. Yeah right that was my analogy for our podcast opening in your well welcome. I was really good. Hey every time you enjoy the podcast I hold my breath and just hold on tight. I feel like I'm just like cupping your little but just holding you up just lifting you into the air. We should redo our channel art. The era yeah up here now You'd probably be the one. Because your smallest that makes most toys and be a lopsided but I guess a lopsided Tripod is that's why I said Wobble Wobble Wobble I'm the wobbly legged little too short or a little too long you never know we should do it. Cherub photo shoot where we all are like gracing. Our Nether the regions with Art Rivoli draped club. Med Dude. Playing around with bows and arrows. And all the way on board that say shot you the phone religious Renaissance Art Style Cherubs. Yeah Oh yeah okay. I'm down with that general baby photos. Well that's funny to A very specific type of baby that we're talking about here. I actually. I was at the Getty Museum this weekend with my grandmother because I'm adorable skew. I'm accuweather the Guy Guy Alert and it always strikes me how ugly renaissance painting babies are. They are the ugliest most horrifying little things life drawn with like adult faces. Common Like way they drew things things back then is that they drew babies with old and their hands. Their hands are like close because they have adult hands as well. You ever see adult knuckles on a baby. Looks Really Weird. I saw the cats are ugly. I've housing the how uh-huh and they put them human noses. Yeah the yeah like. There's a whole tumbler. Like the human is. I'm cat can catch the movie. Always great I don't know what you're talking about art renaissance film Solano's high for so we had. We had a bunch of stuff going on the news this week. Guys Do you want to talk about Kobe. Bryant unfortunately passed away. It's very very sad. Are you guys big basketball friends. Fans of Kobe Bryant and general No I'm not a basketball fan. But you know he's like one of those people like you know Michael Jordan and you just know him. It doesn't matter if you follow the sport you know who he is and and he's clearly was very impactful for a a lot of people so he was just so young kids and wife. That's so sad. Yeah we're filming this Monday so we're not even twenty four hours removed from from the news and it's insperity shocking. I mean one. Yes you so young. The fact that it has a daughter passed away with him is is absolutely tragic. I drove into downtown. La last night and driving down the ten. The entire skyline of downtown where he played at the staple center was lit up purple and yellow every single building that has variable lighting shows that and there was this weird moment where I was looking at the sky and for some reason my brain expected to see his face like a giant also. Yeah Yeah I just. I can't explain. It just felt like Ned. But the world's the world lost a giant you know and for so many people he defined big parts. I mean for the past. Twenty years he he has embodied dominance and perseverance and work ethic. And so I know a lot of people are hurting. There are also people that are pointing out his complicated legacy. I see that he leaves behind but right now if you have hurt feelings. You're you're valid in that. I mean you you lost someone that felt like a constant in your life and probably was North Star are as as far as you point to for for ambition and what that looks like. I just think it's crazy because I lived in la since two thousand and five. I've only lived in two cities. He's really my life and this when you came here you had to like. You had to like the Lakers like it's the only sports team. We really had like that. We really rallied around. Everyone I knew at USC he like you had the the Brian Jersey He was not just like a sports icon. He was like an La Legend. You know and he was associate with a city when he passed. I was just in the General Hollywood area and immediately within thirty minutes. The streets were filled with people with with Lakers jerseys. He will have them on and started. started marching around. Yeah his his impact. Was it's interesting because when you have giants like that with a who pass away so suddenly and so tragically it certainly does Give you this sobering sense of reminding yourself Particularly with the fact that there were a lot of families on board that helicopter To effectively a commute. Yeah Yeah The airing basketball to glacier and ask your race dog sleds. Yeah they were just going to take their daughters to a basketball. So certainly just Kinda reminds you to you know appreciate life and Hug your family and you know take take take advantage of careful make decisions because there are other helicopters that were grounded because of how foggy it was and that one wasn't for some reason so like you know just to Uh be cautious very moving tribute in an actual basketball game. The game that was playing that night the players were you know understandably ably having difficulty just playing a normal game we have this news and what they did is both teams agreed to have the first shot clock. Just be a moment of silence wants so it was a moment of silence in the actual game. They the game had started and let it run for twenty four seconds exactly on both side well right leading leading number. That's the number of. Yeah yeah let it run out completely. Everyone just stood there holding the ball and it was really cool to see that like a moment of silence. Silence Happen in the confines of an actual live game rather than like outside of it or more every game warm up it was actually. It could have said like I'm not doing this. I'm Johnny if you'd be a real hassle the guys who the person who scored that point would have been like. What do you think Kobe would have done that Kobe? They wouldn't want to do this. It's like no no song. Moment of Kobe's impact on beer pong in college allege was huge. Anything back throwing trash away. I'm not that trash can anything before Sunday just like Kobe. Yeah now you have to to you. Say I think we can say legend. Yeah his look legends never die. It'll come back but you know for for now I yeah rightfully Out Kobe throwaway tramway. Anything you're going to give it a solid two weeks. Maybe then afterwards you say Kobe. It's a little more determined. It's a little more remembrance moving on Well Since that happened also this weekend Corona virus came to La. Everybody starting this out like a party. Yeah baby we're talking about viruses and mourned legends crazier. There's just like the death toll or like the people who've contracted it toll on China's like wild now and it like from where it was last week it was like under three hundred and now it's over like two thousand so it is rapidly spread it spread is accelerated rated. But I think I've heard that it's not you know it's it has a normal like viral percentage of how you contract it and yeah from. It's like kind of getting the flu or getting a really bad cold in terms of like it really is. It's certainly hurting a lot of people. It's affecting elderly and like little kids which is very scary. But it's not like the black lung and so as you guys know. I have a little. Did you ever get tired old man. Yeah I went to a playground this weekend and there were some kids there with like flu masks on the you know. The the the sickness masks asks you gene got to wear just a few weeks ago. Yeah right and made me think. They'll maybe I should be like protecting West but he wouldn't want to wear mask. Rip It off yeah. Didn't he have trouble wearing pants in the house this weekend. That was fun west like as go. Rhino Pants dance off. As is old. Funny I was over at Neds and Becky and I watched Cute little baby. Wesley On Friday night and at one point it was like he got naked for Bat. Time time. We're still getting the bath reading. He runs out of the room. He grabs his scooter and in comical movie. Fashion these scoots with one leg up in the air naked past it was so perfect and like we were in the bathroom so it was kind of a tunnel like our frame vision. Listen with framed by the door and the couch and so he just like scoots by like he enters frame and leaves frame with like back the air and we we hanging out and then you just smiling looking directly at being. We laughed very hard which causes him to know. It's funny and he also also we're all just laughing and he's naked. It's hilarious around this age. Kids start to develop personalities. West personality is no pants on and father. I put on pants this morning. I was like a would have been nice to just not wear pants today. I want to hear more about babysitting but also back to the corona virus real quick. I've only read about it on twitter and I've actually tried to not read about it because I'm like I don't i. I don't want to get caught up in hysteria. No it's time to get caught up steria. It's the first time I've said it out loud. It's pronounced Vin diesels. Favourite Beer Rona out. Thrilling means crown. Right does it yeah so pretty good sponsorship opportunities panicking right now you know. I've got to run a virus. Many games because part of the beach the viral cell looks around the parts around around. It looked like a crown like yeah. I think I might be wrong. This and people in the Commons can let me know I think the current viruses a general virus and I I believe mergers and SARS both mutated from the krona virus. Pretty general but the current strain is they know it's new so people in the medical field are calling it the some sort of like Nouveau Corona visor basically like a novel Corona Virus. They're calling it new but they don't know yet if it's going to be anything that's actually actually very very serious so it's still kind of like floating around in this amorphous. Also what's it like you don't want it to mutate into the bud light lime virus. It definitely not incorrigible cabinet. No I don't think people should worry too much yet. You know in China definitely is the country that has a lot of A lot of things in place for these types of Nex because that happens a lot in jail they build hospitals in a week. They're building a new yet. So they build buildings with pre fabricated pieces of building. So like there's a place of basically like it's almost like build walls and then the walls can get shipped and just put together by basically they can put up a hospital. They've done it before in seven days. They were trying to do at this week in six days. Wow and it's crazy. Look at the pictures they just have a million little Various equipments to bear bulldozers and all sorts of other things to flatten out the land. And then just gonNA truck in built pieces of building and I know time. Speaking viral hits grew billy island swept. Army's this transitions today. Ben Land Billy Billy is is both the first female and youngest artists in history to sweep the big four categories so she won best album best record best song best new artist. It was a difference between album and record. I always forget but there is a distinction between it. Album record record must be a like a single. How how the Song Masan? How's that different from one song to she went song at? The grammys are a mess. I'M GONNA I'm brave enough to say it. I'm not trying to say that. I'm I am thrilled for billy. I think she's wonderfully talented. I've been on that train since since her first. LP well after came out. But I've been a fan of hers for a while. I think the world of her music that being said that organization is a nightmare. I think that that show is a joke. There awards joked please invite me next year I would love to go. I WANNA get great. What's cool about Grammy's is that there's like a billion grammy's actually given out like so? There's the televised grammys. And there's always like that like Oscars was like there's not televise Oscars but the grammys are so extensive. Like I have a grammy. It's not hard to get a grammy. I have I technically an emmy winner because I yeah I don't know my high school has banned program back. Right time ago one grammy so identically. I was part of the winning grammy team but if like one one hundredth the grammy. Yeah E. Y.. A. Is on the back of the people who are in those recordings of that. So I'm telling you. I was awarded Council Grammy. Why is that not in your byline? Grammy Award Winning Retiree Internet New York Times bestsellers. What album was that Keith? Well it was his high school two thousand nine winter concert. You know they have a high school concert grammy. Yeah that's what I'm saying. So there's every level of music for every type of music. There's you know there's Latin grammys. There's there's just so many grammy's that's why I remember watching like the Simpson's Simpson's longtime ago. They will always rag on the grammy's for being like a grammy who cares because is because there are a lot of grammy's we should win a grammy winner grammy. I think I take back what I said. It is the most prestigious award. It means a lot to me. I would like to figure out how we too can win a grammy win grammy. I bet there's do. They give grammy's for audiobook readings. They do all right so we didn't do. We didn't submit we did. Then we can submit again. Is there the grammy for best viral fake rap song. Oh Yeah Right. Because that's a lot on youtube I bet there are various other like streaming only are like there's like asked actual new artist Grammy's that aren't like new because we just started making money where we consider you an artist now but like actually. You've you just on your first album member and you weren't yet but it was good so he's a grammy. I do because there's a lot of performances like performance Performance Award Performance Performance Award Board so there are some good ones last night. Demi Lovato was amazing. I don't know if anyone watched it anybody and I didn't watch off everything gene. Well everyone was great Little GNAWS X. performed Altan road featuring during bt 's which was the explosive they knew how to break the award show through the Internet while belittle nauseous when his first Grammy Lizard when her first Grammy I don't know if people remember Joe but she when her first grammy talking too little too late. Yeah leave get out right now. She's an incredible singer but she was the featured singer vocalist on the best rb Song Winter so she technically won one grammy. Yeah right on time. A lot of I nine sec nice. That was a stretch. But I didn't get but Yeah I won't bother explaining. It's not very good Johnnie do with. Who is your favorite artists? This year. that's tough. I because we like the standards that everyone's like super into we love we. We love billy my favorite a long pause. I mean I I feel very mainstream now. which is a weird thing for me because in college I was all about acting like the alternative music but vampire weekend is now mainstream and they were nominated from the year and Billy and Liz are two people whose careers I've loved watching so I'm the fucking mainstream as it gets now? I've just make up a name. That like Oh yeah I love this band Phony bears album is totally phenomenal. And that was. I don't even know who won. Let's see what I listened to this year. You should make a Zack's best of the year playlist on spotify tight. Also A and. I know it's terrible. Okay Okay I was choking okay when the onset when lemonade came out I wanted to have lemonade streaming so I actually also this is GonNa give me a bigger boom. I wanted to listen to news when it came out so alternatives accidents. I kept it for and then she's everywhere now and I'm like well all my platelets on this so I just haven't switched over but it's it's a terrible APP. If they thank my most listen to this year I liked Claro. I liked FDA twigs and like big thief. That was interesting radio. Oh you're welcome for that. That's good well we're GONNA get you guys try the week but first we're gonNA take a little break. Thanks spun sees. We'll be right back. Never got a question for you. Okay did you know that nine out of ten couples prefer a different mattress firmness. ooh I didn't put that makes sense. I always wonder if like becky and I like we found a mattress together but like I do feel like we totally agree softly. He's GonNa make some compromises along along the way. Of course we did but from better software firm you can adjust each side of your sleep number setting on the sleep number three sixty smart bed so it's just right for both of you. I personally. I'm a soft mattress boy. I like to sink in. I like to be little cozy. I wish my whole body would just fully imprint mattress and I could like get into it and each night it would become more and more like a coffin around. Yeah I like it a little firmer. You know it's like I. I go for the firm bottom but with the pillow top. So it's plush flush the seat number three is adjustable comfort partner snort technology it senses. You're movement to try to better educate you on what you'd actually like. You seem number to be and with sleep. Accu Technology that tracks how your sleeping gives you personalize insights for your best sleep. Discover proven quality sleep and save fifty percent on the three sixty limited edition. SMART BED now. During in the alternate sleep number event only seat number store or sleepnumber dot com slash cadence that sleepnumber dot com slash a d. n. c. e.. It's something else. Just read spotify. Eh ragging them. I will tell you that there is nothing worse then title much. What's it? How much does the subscription price? There's no reason to be on it at first. I thought it was funny. Now I'm trapped. I'm trapped in my own terrible joke. You know there's a there's a fine line between actor and just being the worst right. I ride that line all the time. Good road line over. It always always like titles terrible. I'm on it. This is terrible. I do that yeah. It's the worst movie ever seen. You got to go see and speaking of terrible Vina's back you. How is that possible? Though one of the creators of vine one one of the Coker's vine started bite B. Y. T. chorus weekend it is it's six second looping videos but now they're vertical because tick tock works discuss so isn't it. Part of dance are now just called bite. I don't know because by Dan Jones took I know probably not editor felt like they were like is like diktat but no music this time competitor. Okay cool but I don't know you can Eugene's gene's looking at Wow that's that's nuts. I mean just here. When I'm getting wrapping my head around Tick Tock Vine is back? Yeah because this week you tried guide on tick-tock right now. Yeah you're all trying to targets for video it'll come out in a month but but ned has had some great success and some great sadnesses. I mean if we want to launch into my try the week by week was drying tick Tock. I had been resisting it. I thought no. Maybe it's a waste raced of our time. I made this a platform. We really need you know if if you've got to build a following michelob stuff. Yeah I I got that time time but I downloaded it and I was originally confused. I was like these videos are all random. I don't like these and that started harding hurting things and then I started getting served every single hilarious dog video ever and I was like this is amazing what I wanNA positive though because you'll see on on camera in our videos the nets I twenty minutes is like dejected. I don't like this. I'm trying to be positive for the camera but I this is. What is this garbage l.? Like net. Just go into a room yourself for thirty minutes. let's go watch it on TV. I had some secret. Tick Tock time and the doors closed and you just hear oh Yeah it's like a lot of funny videos so then we tried to make our own tick tock so I made my first tick Tock and my first take talk was was mega viral. It just popped off like crazy Like over a million likes over eight million views. Yeah we had internally talked about me as a little tick tock master doubled my output in one video. My High Watermark blew past I. It was unbelievable. Though I had this rush I had this thrill and then I felt this pressure to keep up I was like I either have to never post again or I have to. He's eight million view of my very next video. Violated the service. Was the videos waving a gun at me. I was yelling. And then it was a bad choice. idea bad choice. Milk was a bad choice. Yeah you know it seemed funny at the time it turns out. I threatened threatened Keith. You're not allowed to threaten people. I just actually think about lactose intolerance sensitive issue people on the platforms. You Know I. I was already feeling a little wary about even featuring a gun in a comedic way and so then they were like you know what you're right you shouldn't oppose. Please take it down but then my next one when you know one hundred thousand views. I'm focused this. I mean I know that the second one isn't as good as the first one but like Oh man one tame tame yeah. How many followers did you get off? Eight mill view. I went from zero followers. Zero likes to like a hundred thirty five thousand followers ow and one point two million likes. That's crazy I see explosive. Potential that platform. That's that's why we're talking about it because it is this this. I've realized for me it's like a slot machine and that's what makes it so addicting. Both as a viewer but also creator because you really can hit those jackpots. That's and then that gives you feeds enough that you keep coming back to to pull the slot again and again the big. I'm just paying penny slots over here. Even my my jackpots are are pennies or you're putting in a small amount quitting in small amount of work and I'm using small result but but that's what I WANNA do here. People like Ned said we have jobs. We have other things I'm not. I can't spend all my time thinking about to blow up the tick tock and now there's by eight now vine is back but I bet all the viner's are GonNa stay on Youtube and not go back to their house. All closed their youtube and go back home. Yeah they have it back they can all go back over there again by up and they can throw thing rakes at their friends and they set mattresses on on fire and they can leave our beautiful little house alone over here in Youtube land. The audience can find more about nets. Tick Tock adventure in an upcoming video where we actually try to talk. Yeah Yeah so you can check out more of that on our youtube channel in the future. that's right. You will be happy to know that I put one video on bite that was already made. It was me recreating creating. You're already on it. Well it was that he recreated a vine for for video that we did a while back. Let me just throw it on here. A school fine and I wanted to. I looked did it for ten minutes. Put that bite up. It got three likes. Oh so folk guy. I'm GonNa go it and say that they're not promoted and any other. I did not did not care to. I just wanted to know what it was and I don't know something that now. I know the possibility of fifteen seconds and match into songs. I'm like this don't have the luster that it used to more. Yeah I feel like you should go on there and get like at. Do you have ads. Zach oh no I only ever go for headcorn duty. Yeah that's better. Go get my fucking username. Somebody else doesn't and that's what I do now is like I just go in and I think Golden Gate Park on yes. I go by domains. I've never I I liked that. So you gotta do. That's why I've been getting at West fulmer on on every platform all of the other people that did that need this other thing. Oh Yeah I've been sending out like take down. Requests left and right. Oh Jeez stay. I'm hooked Tick Tock though I've been I've been posting like every day. I went to the beach and I was like Oh area. You WanNa help me film pick. We are at the beach and it was funny. Keith was trying to week this week trial the week because I'm still hungry. Angry still doing intermittent fasting. I'm still hungry. I I think it's yielding results. It's only been a couple of weeks. So it's it's hard to say but I've gotten more used to it but it is tough. The mornings are the toughest because you have to wait and they have a delicious smoothie waiting for me but I can't have it until eleven eleven and it's tough because we sometimes have shoots like tomorrow we have a shoot that maybe goes really late. Like what am I gonNa do while you're allowed to cheat on a day where you like really need to eat Yeah but yeah so. Yeah but then you're supposed to push back your start time the next day even though if I go in three hours earlier we have to not eat till one right. Yeah no no. It's like yes. Yeah kind of like that so if I so right now I'm doing eleven to seven between eleven and seven so if I waited until eleven thirty means I could eat at seven thirty but if ah that day I started eleven I eat at like eight. Forty five than the next answer was to wait until twelve forty five to start eating. Then it's supposed to work it back to still ending at seven and so because it's like you did it. Wrong is a lot of math but mostly it's just trying to make my metabolism's work harder. So they burn through Maga right. Yeah I haven't done. I don't know I didn't try anything new To be honest this week You know we. We did take doc. I tried that You know I don't think I did too much new thing. We you know what I started watching that new. Uh Week to try even the smallest tries to try with highlighting finish shows and try to babysitting and then I started watching a new show in which one it's the one. I can't remember the name and it's really it's good it's Jason Bateman. Oh it's so good it's continues. HBO's Yeah Yeah. You talked about the circle so much last episode. I watched it last weekend. We're always leads Ed's conversation topics are catching up three weeks ago. Talking about the circle now now talk for we ago last week. And we're talking about Allie watched us just downloaded by and I'm getting it just says in loving memory it's like intro credits. Yes is in loving memory of somebody I was but it was really that sounded so callous of me that I've just never had an APP that had like intro credits. Faded in and out like a movie I was like. Ooh I like that the way. Did you like your show Keith. So the the show is good. Good try it's good and I feel like I tried it. Good it's confusing. You are also a nurse. This week I was worse for Becky last week. And she sprained her ankle. So we couldn't go to Eugene's cool party. We didn't do much last weekend. But I had to take care becky and keep telling her to ice it and she wouldn't wouldn't and wouldn't really GonNa help it heal better. She's mostly good. Nasty is up and walking around. We went out this weekend so she did some walking But what I was GONNA say This related to this. That was good. Let me think what was it had something to say about about. Oh we went to the dentist. Becky and I went to the dentist. That was try and Becky had zero. Cavities Avenue have out that I also as your counties but I never have. Cavities always have cavities. I'm like I'm I'm surprised that that's a previous podcast. I talked about how she had many cavities last visit visit. She had zero so. We're very proud of her. Becky for something horrifying. I thought I was developing cavities. Because I can kind of see like in my mouth is like it looks crater esque and I went to the dentist as well. This week and You reminded me that I had to. I saw it on your calendar and they go. Oh no you're not gonNA you're you don't have cavities. You're just grinding your teeth down. And I'm like oh wonderful the grand my teeth. Are you going to have a nighttime mouthguard. I do and I couldn't sleep with it so I took it out. I've recommitted myself. Somebody has my username. Hey how did they get so quick. So we're not fight stall at keyed PAT. I think some people just buy out just launched. I don't do these APPs. Why me why let me see if you gene Liang's available they have take that just as C. C.? You know other large users. No you already in use maybe is do I have saved account. I'm from Vine Jalen. Maybe Kayla made our counts. Your it's unique. It's a new APP. It's not actually fine. He just people might go and buy some like notable double online people's named the Rock. Go delicious I just tasted did I just tasted the most incredible cupcake guys. I gotTa tell you about these little cupcakes. Maybe you've seen them. Maybe you've heard them. They're called baked by Melissa. These little bite size cupcakes and they are unbelievable. They're like as good as all those treats you see on your facebook time mind. Look they're so good they have they have unique flavors they seasonal gift boxes so you can like mentioned what you what you love and the sort of give you a nice personalized gift box. I like to to the season. They're easy gift baked by Melissa offers. One and two day shipping nationwide and remember the last day for Standard Shipping for Valentine's Day delivery is February twelfth at two PM Eastern and this is a perfect Valentine's Day thing this Valentine's Day send your loved ones the perfect gift with big by Melissa good baked by Melissa Dot com slash. Try guys today and use Promo Code. Try guys to get fifteen percent off your next order. This is a special offer exclusively for podcast listeners. So make sure you take advantage. That's fifteen percent off at baked by MELISSA DOT com slash. Try guys using the Promo Code. Try guys at Jason Statement. FOMER is already already in use. You can do real ned fomer at the real. Oh I think so on twitter for a longtime. My name was Nettie Casse because because I created a twitter account because your social media influence her my dumb one yes. That's right you did you did. And we email someone at twitter and they were able to change it for me really. Yeah they're actually able to kick someone else. That was you know camping as Ned. Fulmer off I have have had me as my thirteen year. Old Self has been parking on my username with a dead email for years on twitter so I can't get a mile on twitter. I don't understand and you know you're you're saying you don't remember an email password known the email like how is wiped on the Internet right. It was like an old hotmail that doesn't exist anymore and the account suspended but I can't get the username because the account is suspended. I had that recently another APP mine. I forget what avid one of my APS was My college email and so it was like Scott. Yeah sure yeah. That's ex-con Eugene. What is your trying to week this week? You have moved into a whole new house. I knew you open that door whole new house like an actual on the floor. Actually Indian food on the floor. War Wi fi is not coming for full week off the cements move somewhere new. You want the fastest speed of something and they have to come in like install it in a special way fiber. Yeah whatever that is whatever. The fastest one is no way they aren't available today. They're not a week definitely available liars. I call them and tell them that my gentlemen would like to have a word with your eye out but Yeah this weekend also had broken my phone during our tick tock video shoes so I was without actual Internet at home and I had no phone so I had no. You couldn't even do a hotspot access. I mean I could use matt had a hotspot by I also like he was using his phone like. I'm not going to steal his phone. Brad work so you know. I was in a cafe for like six hours each day working. How did you break your phone making a video? No but like how did it break in the had to as part of like a product. It is amazing Eh. Alright I'm like not into Tick Tock talked. Well I saw the talks on it talks. Yeah it doesn't interest me very much but I I think the don't you know that you're talked six talk. Is that a phrase. We WanNA automatic duck dude. You're talks. I didn't think I would like it but I do. It's like a IT'S A. It's a different challenges. The different like like medium It's the form of a joke telling in content creation learning an exciting challenge. A little bunch of fake talk phrases for BITCON. Just like assault took talkers the things that I think are real renegade. Oh I've seen your talk. They tickle tickle tickle. They take all through your phone up into the air and it broke. Yeah basically I have an entire new house. That's amazing that's a huge lifestyle. Actually told someone I said. I think I'm just GONNA die now. I think that's one of the reasons. I also avoid the idea of marriage and babies. 'CAUSE I'm like in my head. Maybe I'm just a Victorian woman I think what are the big steps mark get married you have a baby you get a house you die. Yeah so I like the idea of owning a house to me makes me feel like undertand going to be ninety tomorrow so I get like I did like so sometimes I just did stuff where I was just like okay. It's fine that it's not done because renovations are still going on for like another week while we're in it which is kind of Awkward Quartz Mike Walker on my underwear with people working around me You're not putting me music video. Yeah Yeah Right Camilla Mila Camelia. What is you pronounce the Spanish? It's only if it's to me. It's not Neil Allison Camilo No. She has to wells in her last name. But not in the I know I know if it is to than it is. Yeah but I'm going to get his whole life and how many of you are followed by comedic obey on twitter. Thank you very much. I am the way eminent expert here. Because you're right. It is Camila Mila definitely on twitter. I mean steamer and ask her to being video. Hey I don't think that's. How do you pronounce your name? It was absolutely a follow and mute immediately situation but I'm honored nonetheless. Why would you bother then Because we're good friends. Oh because you met her at the red carpet that one time that viral tie okay she said Zachary my dear so lovely to see you again. Hugs she's professional. Wow Gene let's stay with your house and I I don't even WanNa talk in there. There's two beds right now but one isn't even set up because the one room is being still renovated we actually have beds in the living rooms. Nothing is you. We can't impact ninety percent of the boxes because the kitchens also still being done so we just have everything sitting in boxes while we're living in the space so very sleeping. We set up a one bedroom. Oh but but the guest bedroom not even the master bedroom. Oh we're sleeping in one bedroom. It's like where is our house and the rest is just construction. We did that too. We waited on the master bedroom just slept in guest S. bedroom for like months. And you got your couch from the same place. I got my couch and I know that it's going to take eight to twelve weeks. We've curious adding it is like minimally customizable like you. Just choose the pegs from the leg and what cloth you want someone that enjoys that process. I love love furniture's. I love shopping furniture. I don't I don't like the unpacked boxes and but no. I actually enjoy the unpacking process more than packing process. Because I like the design of things in a space but big tip if you are graduated from Ikea furniture is very expensive and it takes a long time of its custom which it's a lot cheaper furniture. That's nice is coming from outside countries so the cash that we both. It's going to be until April Megan coming from. I believe they constructed in China. What if you got the virus in it but if circle has the virus catch Rona virus? That's what they're going to say. It was going to evolve Bob into something more dangerous holiday couches in La. Start getting sick. Let's let's stay with us for about couches. Let's talk about got it got an account. Okay here's my tip on couches. I actually got real tip on couches you read Holy Shit Okay. You're going to be like I wanNA cuss them couch and I want to couch. This got buttons on it because that looks so cute. Ri- right because if you got buttons the buttons are inevitably going to fall off and on your bye bye on your on your back but buttons ends and also your pockets. Your they're going to snag the buttons when you sit up and sit down and stuff like that and you're eventually a Benchley you're gonNA lose the button and then what you can do now. You look like a fucking idiot. Because your counselors ruin because it's missing a single button so you put pillow over at right pullover you hide it and then you break another off faulkner on a whole different pillow. She can't just send de re buttoned. You got to do it. So you flip it over because his buttons on that side to beat the system and you break and then you realize that the buttons were connected acted by a single string which we buttons connected on each side so insidious you flip it over the whole button system falls and now you got lots of missing using buttons and You keep putting pillows on your couch to hide the buttons because the people who built your couch guess what they went out of business so you got nobody to back to and now you gotta couch. That's got some buttons so you know don't be like me. Don't get the buttons. Just leave and a real real traumatizing story. Our just good the buttons for your back keep buttons. That makes me think of some of my couch vice. Mike my says you're you're losing it. All your buttons you couches falling apart you your upholstery is getting ratty or whatever. You don't like you couch anymore before you throw that a couch out. Consider re upholstering couch fabric. That'll being boom. That's cool and then you got it. Looks like a brand new coach. Pretty Cool isn't that reminds me of my couch advice. Don't watch TV laying hang on your side because you're gonna fall asleep on the couch and you're GonNa wake up in your life. What fucking years in your face is going to stick to the couch? You're going to have to peel it off slowly even slower. It's a leather couch. We aren't one dream. One could dream a and you know you just gotTa Sit Upright keeps you engage the second you commit to laying down. It's lights out couches. You ever been a shirtless boy sitting on a leather couch in my God. Well Okay my my older. My old apartment I lived with two other dues. It was a house of three boys. We shared a courtyard and one of my friends mostly worked from home so it just became this open open door policy where the other people that didn't quite have jobs would come hang out all the time and there was one quite young Algan. They kind of only technically work. We're working on the tick Tock Day you go and this one dude never wore a shirt. I never ever seen him with the shirt. We had cheap downtown. La Leather couches. Mike Lazy Boys Style. You pulled the lever your feet popped up. That was wonderful. The the perfect out fresh out of college couch and this dude was always sitting shirtless on my couch. Watching his pasty body. Stick Tamai leather on a hot summer day and I had to be the asshole of like. Hey Man do you mind wearing a shirt on our also felt like a jerk. I felt like this but come on. You gotta wear unless your couch and then your skin guest. I don't put your bare skin on someone else's pleasure. Yeah that's rough. You're getting a lazy boy now the stuff what's going to be your favorite room in the house. Probably the room that has a Washer Asher and drier in it. Oh also never had a washer and dryer in my place I have always lived. I always still went to laundromat for the best six. That's crazy. Yeah and I've never had air conditioning. Oh my God no yeah so like central air and window unit. But you didn't have like such a window unit and no central. AC No heater heater window. Unit wasn't in his bedroom name was mine as far from like ninety nine. I bought one of those place. You need it but on the heater like two yesterday it was I was standing on going. Why am I not cold? I was so confused and then I realized the big Boy House and I'm probably just and and then I'm my life's over. It is tough because yes you bought a house. It's a Nice House Sir. Now going back to your earlier point. There's an expectation that the furniture you buy has a permanence is to it and that money money money. Invest in furniture. Yeah Oh yeah. You don't invest in Virgil downpayment. No it's the down payment then. It's the couch payment. Yeah yeah sit down. Payment pillow has down is stuffing aches. Yeah yeah well you boys Before we get to the end of the show I wanted us to answer one advice. Question people have been emailing us in at advised and ignoring ignoring. We've been ignoring. We get so many emails. Ema Elliot's to chat with true we have many and I'm sure we'll have more by the end of our lives. This is advice advice advice. They'll go for miles team dot com. You bring in your questions and the boys are going to answer them on the pod This one is from a fake. A person we're GONNA give them a fake name Zachary. What's the main Gumbo? Mectron Jumbo macron is writing in asking for advice. This is advice about a family matter. I have a virus. Sorry I have a phone virus and need advice jump Macron says please give a fun fake name. I Love Them. Aw Hey miles. I'm not reading this for us. It's for miles and miles. I really need some advice from you and the guys so basically I'm enacting and I was looking at monologues for a little bit of practice and I ended up on this super sketchy website while I clicked on a monologue and it took me to a porn website and now my phone phone got a virus from it. How am I supposed to tell my parents? They're going to think I'm a porn addict in reality. I'm just a fifteen year old girl. Who thought his acting weird? What should I do right now? Your parents don't think will not think your report addict is a fifteen year old girl. I mean that's A. I'm a general assumption of me but I think you can just tell them what happened. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. I'm on the tell them what happened. Cam to luggage Vera Monologue. I accidentally clicked on a porn website. And now my phone has a virus. Not that phone Scott viruses like what I remember like the. Maybe it's a windows. I remember the days all of our computers. I assume were rot with Riddles Asti. Yeah and you know your friend your friend would come over and be like Yo. Do you WanNa see what look like and my are we allowed to do that type on my computer and my Dell computer just gotten just got pop up all day every day. Oh Yeah Yeah Maddie Hulu again friend. Yeah wasn't me definitely not me. No mom my friend was over and like I was like I thought we were just going to Nickelodeon and like we're GonNa play games and then like I dunno like somehow like we were on another site and loaded like twenty pop-ups so of people with booby. I'm not standing here and telling you that. I never searched for it. I'm just saying that Alex Tomasi came to my house and showed me porn before I was ready to look at porn born ready yet an older brother I was the eldest. It shocked me about how shocking. It's scary Magin. Having to hide. Gay Porn Right. Yeah Yeah it's like bears all my God. You found the boobs mom but then this is more like Oh shit looking at actual anal sexiest man. Did you do the thing where you heard like footsteps in the hallway and you quickly yanked the power cable was like SPA suspect. You'd one one family computer. Yeah that everyone looked. You've had one computer in the house terrifying but I never do the power core trick because what if you plug it back in then just loads all this stuff up didn't SIPE WINDOWS WINDOWS XP Oryem restore you've Getting away from porn of from question from fifteen year old girl do you have have any monologues that perhaps jumbo mectron should try out. Oh good monologue for a young lady. I mean well. There's a lot of American classics by Tennessee Hennessy. Williams he's got a lot of really good lady monologue so I'm sure you've already considered I there's there's some in view from the bridge bridge that's a classic American story there's would always have a contemporary monologue and a classical monologue. You know. Make sure you have. At least leased one Shakespeare Soliloquy down like good have a back pocket. Elsevier Lady Macbeth Juliet. Juliet probably really better for you. But you know Yeah glass asked Menagerie or watch. That porn video transcribe the scene. Yeah and then deliver the most thrilling and confusing highschool school soliloquy in the history of theater right in front of my salad. I watched that whole most people stop after that scene. It's a funny the highlights. 'cause it's a gay porn scene. Have you ever watched porn before just out of curiosity remember. Just like Talkin Man on man. Yeah I I cannot. You've gotTA show Y'all seen I've like we used to do the crazy ones. I talk about the typical one I've seen yet because like there's there's been some gay porno scenes in some really weird movies that I've seen substances like I used to help Wednesdays where we watch really weird movies and sometimes the they had seen sort of in them kind of like how like like the room has softcore porn in like there are a lot of foreign films that just have full-on like Oh. Wow this is just actual sex this movie while while yeah all right well. That's that's a future video. Video is good. Yeah I mean I should introduce it. Oh why should I show you. There's so many different studios dragon. Ah Wipers I want like a buzz. Seventeen of of great guys gene gene. Johnny Fifteen A. Ah that moment of like you know. I see now the similarities. I didn't like this coming in but I really respect him. Maybe you'll like it more who who knows. It's a little more equal footing straight porn. Because I like to dabble. I like to look lots of type. Support some of the street forms of little or a little horrifying. I can imagine a woman I'd be like. Hello this is to way more choking them as a kid it frightened. Yeah every now and then you want us to wrap this up every now and then there's like a man in a lizard costume and it's like what who's who's those those are funny keeping best like the really low rent favorite dance of the parodies of big films so when they do the a porn version of the avengers those are always cost data so mad. Yeah Yeah Yeah. There are some legitimately like funny like porn things like this. This is funny. Yeah yeah bunting to combine. Yeah a French one way. There's this guy in the bath and comes in and she's like on the lifeguard. She's she's like. What are you doing in my house? It seems like no swimming without supervision. And he's like. I'm just trying to take Nevada. I know it was going. It was like a ridiculous. That's about about what they're fun to give you some advice. But we're fucking not good at that are we. We have an expert in the room. WHO gives advice that goes for miles and this is is that segment advice that will go for miles with our podcast Gremlin miles bones in your four miles tune into your radio? It'll go more my miles Asian fairly small banks own my God it keeps going. It sounds like a slap on what's miles nation. How we doing tonight? Yeah hyped up up now other songs. Good way where did that come from. I took a Youtube Eh. Free royalty free song was royalty free positive and then I sang over it in the wee hours of the morning. That was me. Ah Me yelling into my cell phone puncture. I do like pop genre. You chose to thousands like Some forty one yellow yellow car yellow card. Yeah Ocean Avenue. One of the unsung greats of the last decade skater. what's up everybody. How Ya you're doing and I m listening this in the morning okay? Hey have. y'All wanted to get healthy a baby. I mean yeah tell me more. Do you want a little green. SLUDGE THE TO TRICKLE DOWN A. Are you villa okay. I'm I'm out. Do you want do steam your pores so so big. You could fit your dangle in a really big poor graphic or small one depending those vegetable oils. Okay Yeah right yeah. It's break it down a bit aggressively peaking throughout this entire peak and that way I distort the audio it gets compressed ask for rock and roll my advice to everybody out there who like. How do I eat vegetables and still be sexy? Little Green Man will. Here's Thuc in deal. You're putting vegetables in the PAN and don't do it brother. Here's what you're gonNA WANNA do. You take a metal colander put into a pot of a big fucking colander and you put it into a pot and you boil the water underneath and then you put a lid on the calendar and know what you're thinking calendars for steaming pasta straining training. No you can put cucumbers. You can put squash Committee hot water. You put tomatoes. It would be better. Do go outside eggplant. You gotta be much steam it and if you put salt on that is going to be just like popcorn. I like steamed vegetables but also also. Here's a better advice using that same technology. That's how you re you're frozen tamales baby you put them in a double like here in La. We have a tamales guy. Most farmers markets he makes amazing. TAMALES sells them frozen. That's really hard to make tamales at home. Because you know you actually. They need to be steamed but that is the best way to do it. The way we vegetables seamew tamales police file saving that. For when we do it Tamale without a recipe. Yeah you WANNA see them. You can steamed vegetables without a colander if people only have like the the plastic ones you can just put it in a fucking pot and put water in there and cover it with that will steam. Your vegetables isn't that boiling I see what you're saying. You're saying you know a pot of boiling water with no calendar talking like if you just put like a cup of water but if you just put a little bit it'll just create that same effect you can actually put a cucumber in. The bottom of the PAN is enough water S. team you're through. Well yeah because it isn't the point that you want the steam to cook it but you don't I want it to be submerged. Okay I see your yourself. Some steaming rocks put him in the bottom of a pot of boiling water. They'll lift the vegetables vegetables high enough that they can. I don't know I just made this up. But that's a lot for rocks in your rock senior pot. I I will say I like sauteed vegetables way more than seeing vets. They're better. They're not as on the but they're delicious and ultimately you're still eating vegetables which is steamed vegetables. Vegetables are definitely better than boiled vegetables. Oh yeah both a nice little crime. What about cabbage? Though broiled cash I harvested some cabbage from garden this weekend. And what did you bring US law. Yeah you want some dude. I was law. It's at my house and and we gotta eat it because I don't like Coleslaw. Why did you make this aerial yank cabbage out? She's like we don't need this anymore. You're like that's a perfectly good capit- honey. What are you doing? Why would you to start away because it looked beautiful but it's flowering cabbage so it's not quite as tasty see as normal cabbage? It's usually used as a decoration So I saved it. I rescued it into the kitchen. Cut Away that it on you. The ten screen corrine parts and all of the Nice white like kind of more more tender less bitter parts we chopped up and make Coleslaw. That's awesome so yeah I'll bring it because right now it's just me who's eating it. West also doesn't like it. I made a lot of money on an Mayo base or cream base. May Oh is that something you can eat mayo can eat out. I'll get down with the slaw. All right yeah well thanks for listening. Everyone this has been another episode of the TRIPOD. Make sure you subscribe to us on your you. Know Your podcast or raiders. Data's five stars subscribe to us on Youtube. Check out our youtube videos If you're not a fan already and also get yourself a tripod t-shirt little dinosaur At guys dot com support the show. We think all of you for your support on Patriot dot COM SLASH TRACK S O O. I might get another dog this week. What what do you tell us about it next week to you? WanNa listen about you WanNa talk about bullshit finally talk and then we. It's time to wrap up if you WANNA listen to more head on over to Patriot dot com slash. You guys. We'll be talking about Eugene's dog as well as our latest video on the after pod. Suppose thoughts pregnant says what the visual tripod about. The song listing. Look into mixed beautiful. Wait a second. If you're still listening I would like you to make us some tripod songs because if miles as young one I want to make some intro songs. Put that bitch in the pod.

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Frito Why?!?

Forked Up: A Thug Kitchen Podcast

27:13 min | 5 months ago

Frito Why?!?

"Welcome to forked. Up Your Go-to podcast for all things Okra. Oreo was it. Oh there's chapstick. Michelle Davis and Matt Holloway. Today we're talking facetime with farm animals Kenyan care packages and what the FUCK IS GONNA sustain? Eighteen jealous about to give up. What the fuck is up? Everybody yet we did not release episode last week. I just get this elephant in the room. Taken Keira everything's fine so we have to get together on a regular basis to. We're still working on our book. Trying to limit limit. We're limiting exposure as much as possible. Were the only two people that are office in while working on the book we try to record our podcast so if there is a gap in the schedule was last week. Please be patient with us. We're trying to be as safe. Follow all the guidelines. I don't we have a president. We do we have a supplemental episode for your this week since we missed last week so I don't WanNa hear it. We are trying something new. We are doing these little cooking segments. Yeah so it's like a cook along. We Cook a recipe on the site a new recipe for. Y'All from start to finish and we record the whole process. So you get to hear like weird tips that I would never include an cookbook. Because it's just shit that I'm like. Oh people might want to know this and you gotta hear where I fuck up. Yeah so we're going to be releasing some of those to try and make for the gap in the schedule if there is a gap. There shouldn't be. Yeah but but also like let us know what you think about them if you want more of them or if there's a recipe that you want us to do that you want somebody to talk you through fucking let us know. Also some people have reached out to us the some of our merchandise that a stock. We're not in a rush to restart. Not a priority are march is stocked and printed by Amazon directly. So we don't do any of that Shit and We would rather that they ship out more important stuff than are are nonsense. So Super Low priority guys. We'll we'll restock eventually but right now it's not it's not important. Well we definitely appreciate. Y'All thanks for trying to you know. Chuck some coin in our direction much-appreciated just by the book. If that's what you're trying to do we love that. But if you can't buy the book right now we have. A bunch of recipe is up on the website that we have catered to our current economic situation is called bunker bites. It's all of our pantry staple recipes that are super easy to sell whatever produces in there or what other ingredients are in there just so you can adopt them for what you have and you don't have to make a special run to the grocery store that's kitchen dot com slash onkar. Go check it out. Yeah we got breakfast lunch. Snacks entrees drinks and desserts. So it's everything you need right one shop. I know everybody's tired of doing sour dough non wrong with sour dough. Yeah try some different. We really shot our whole wide right at the beginning of quarantine. What was it? Everyone just waiting for a little time at home to Bake. Bread was yeah. It's really funny that we all like this is what we're doing now. People like exhausted. I'm tired of cooking. It's like you say some even tried to do Mac and cheese. I went in the deep end straight into bread mattress bags. I love it but you know we can do other things. I mean other than all the bread. Baking that everybody's doing have you noticed the getty challenge love explain what it s so people on across the Internet on all platforms are recreating very famous paintings We'd see in the Getty Museum and they're doing it rolls of toilet paper. Whatever should they have land around the house? It's fucking killing at? The people are amazing. Yeah if you need some the cheer you up yeah check out the getty challenge what I love about it though like you and I have been shooting the fourth book now for a little bit like six weeks when all this started to fall apart and we're like faulk. This was the art direction we were doing. We were trying to like what the people wanted before they even. Yeah we were trying to sort of recreate old still life painting doing it like with modern food and just start to see people do getty challenge. I was like Damn Damn Damn good. Do you know who doesn't need any cheering up right. Now the fucking pets of of the world. Oh my God finally the amount of attention I deserve issue but I feel like there is a little. It's like two different sides of the same coin cats. They're like get the fuck out like they're tired of their owners hanging around all the time. Now all say this my girls. Aren't there actually getting more competitive for my attention. It's getting very cute in my house like well let's get minks hale and I'm just like just throw a weapon in between I was thinking about making it a side hustle like doing it. I G live. It'd be like take a Bet News. The full game shutdown. You know it's fucking awhile out. Their dogs don't mind. Dogs are stoked. Oh this is dogs are going to have everyone's dog clean to match. Your dog wasn't clean you before or watch the fuck out and if your dog is not clinging to you right now then you must suck. Are you ready for some history? Let's get into food history. It is now time for this week in food. History this serious goal as you so if you guys are on the internet which if you're at home and not actively working like a crazy person you definitely are. You've seen this doug on a coffee trend. That's sweeping the Internet. It's also called whipped coffee and you make it by whipping together. Equal parts of instant coffee sugar and hot water till it almost kind of looks like a chocolate frosting or like chocolate whip cream. So where the fuck did this come from like? Why is it all of a sudden every word every influencers like channel? Like how the fuck did this happen? Well it surge in popularity happened when an appeared on a Korean. Tv Show in January in it actor young Il woo travel to Macau try. The drink gave it the nickname. Dr GonNa for its resemblance to traditional Korean honeycomb candy from there and exploded on. Tick Tock Youtube Instagram. All over the world and since everybody's at home and these ingredients are pretty common in your pantry. Everybody's trying to make it and while South Korea and Macau or getting all the credit for this frothy drink there. It's popular all over the world. You can find it in India and Pakistan and in one place in particular Greece in Greece. They call it a Frat pay and it's fucking everywhere you can get them at the airport and the tiniest coffee shop on the Tiniest Island. So it's crazy that. South Korea is getting all the attention because in the show the character isn't even in South Korea Macau Macau so. It's not a South Korean. Drink like even from its origins and the Greeks are unsurprisingly. Kind of upset of all this international viral like oversight softening a guys. We've been doing this fucking forever and Allison South Korea does it and you're like Ooh what is this shiny new drink. How inventive and the TIMET. Greece is that kid in the class joke in one person left and then South Korea repeated the joke in the whole fucking class cracked up. Yeah and that's what God damn so just let it be known as a fraud pay like you can call. Dogana coffee if you want but like in your heart just no pay and try it out because you're bored as fuck and you want coffee anyways and it's super easy to make you just have to whip it like use your hand mixer like you'd use to make like Frosting with or something that you can't really do it by hand unless you're super yoked and this deep into quarantine. I doubt that you are so fucking. Try it out. It's delicious. I made one for you this morning. You made it this morning. In what did I say it was? I was like this is muddy coffee. Yeah this is like Oh. It's like milk with coffee. Mug On top and I'll say it as he was walking away like you know what that means bad good. Yeah it was like it was it was like that good mud e you've got some ice in there. He got some milk. Yeah and then you got coffee mud right on top. It's okay it's fine. I don't know that I would order it but I understand the hype behind all of. It's fun Yeah Coffee Rodney fruits or vegetables onto the planet. Welcome to recall. Get ready for us so this week instead of a total recall segment because they're not doing inspections right now and we're recording this on four twenty four twenty related at La. It is after four. Pm. It's literally four twenty four twenty as fast motherfucker. I thought that I would share some of my high thoughts with your so. This little notebook. That jot my dumb ass ideas downing baked or just extremely tired. And you know there's some hits there's a lot of MRS mostly business a lot of hits at the time and then in the morning so fuck it. Let's get into it. I haven't heard this before. So let low earthworms. Where's your fucking neck? Are they all necker? No you have no neck like. Where do you put a Necktie on cartoon earthworm? I think they are anti thing. Yeah okay next one okay. Do you think that you would make more money hauling off an actual heist or by making a movie about a heist? Oh and think about the risk involved. I honestly I think you have a better percentage wise with an actual heist really. Yeah because a lot of movies like you could make the movie like actually pull it off and it be terrible flop or he just released it against six other heist movies. Nobody fucking sees it right. Yeah then even. If you're part of that you still have to split like like. Let's say everybody right. Let's say that you have is successful. Oceans whatever franchise. Yeah you have to split there with all the other producers and filmmakers s same as an actual high snow but it this is people out. They're like oh it's ocean's love and I need like ten other dudes it's like no you don't you need. Maybe one other person you need to know. Where the weak links are you fucking death. Pack with his mother Fucker. That's how you pull it off and we're all wearing face masks and hoodies up anyway. I'm just saying is been a lot of time thinking about crimes lately one more technically all land are islands. I've actually thought about that before. Like a giant canyon filled with water. The ocean is a pond or all islands. It's one or the other come on science on the science now busy right now. You're definitely don't have anything else going on. I hate the my dog understands. Some of my language picks up on buzzwords. But there's nothing that I can do to understand his language. Well you know that's not true like there's a study where this this lady who worked with Primates she fed them all the time. Like grapes went to these. Monkeys is like they got this. They got this and she was in her office. One day after years of working with these monkeys and they were getting fed and she wasn't doing it or primates rather and she's like Oh. They're getting grapes today because she recognized the sound that they were making. Oh that's interesting. Based on what they're eating late his barks like the different like how like if he's excited scared. Tell like Oh. That's the mail. Yeah but everything else. You're kind of projecting totally I've often thought like when I go to other countries where I don't really speak the language I'm like. Oh the dog knows more than me. Totally Ju remember a foster that I got radio. She hears us from Thailand. She came to America. She didn't like she's from this dog. She came straight from. Lax To my apartment didn't know what's rural Thailand rural villages like. She didn't know what the fuck cars were. Streetlights victor out all the noise and like our dialect is so different from the time she was like I. This is a different alien linked garbage. You all garbage. But she had a budget puppies back home and she was just like happy for a mom vacation. I think she'll use my favorite. She's like Susan. That is great speaking of animals just like doing the most you ready for some news. Good news enough of my high bullshit. So I eat farms right. Now are having a hard time. Because they don't know what to do especially if it's gotta a farm where they do like educational stuff and people are getting super creative so Need Sal Peter Anna sweet co-founded sweet farm here in California in two thousand sixteen as a way to promote the humane treatment of animals. Rescued from stockyard. Yeah these animals quote. Help educate farm visitors around issues related to animal welfare factory farming and sustainability according to their website. Which is sweet farm dot org but obviously social distancing has ended all their onsite program. Soon sweet farm was forced to turn to an alternative means to stay afloat and spread their message and they knocked it out of the fucking park all right. They founded goat to meeting. Oh like gotomeeting Goto meeting. Yeah which is like a zoom kind of platform with they're going to go to the gotomeeting initiative which allows people to zoom with different animals for a nominal fee with tears based on. Like what kind of animal you want. So you can zoom with Allama for sixty five dollars. That's a fucking bargain. Yeah you can just add them to like a business call like they'll just be a window with Allama like eating grass or whatever fucking love it. They've got goats sheep. Pigs cows everything you want and for a little more cash. They'll take you on a virtual tour around the farm and you can meet all the animals. I think this is great for like. If you have kids oh I was going to say this is perfect. Forgive get their friends on zoom like get like a group of kids going so you can split between parents and like have them see along or like like I would fucking what the fuck. I don't know anyone who's ever looked at Allama and been depressed. They look silly shit gorgeous to like their whole body is stupid. Llamas good vibes. Yeah but they like to work all the time and their eyeliner game is fucking bananas. The like bashful realize next logical step Islam as having their own youtube makeup tutorials about eyeliner added only fans. I would subscribe immediately so they've already had more than five hundred requests for the service and they rescued barn. Animals have even made guest appearances in meetings for like Fortune. Five hundred firms like. This isn't just like rinky-dink people like everyone is like Goldman Sachs is like get me. That fucking Lama morality. Wonder if you could If you give them a few xbox and be like hey I have the meeting code one. Jesus like bomb them with animals as not my meeting. I just know there's going to be a class. Here's the code. I'll I'll pay double what you're asking like feed the pigs but make them like sound really squirrelly and excited for can throw him in the meeting. I think it's so smart. So are you guys go to a Suite Farm Dot Org? This is not an ad I just love. This idea Grin Google the gotomeeting initiative. And figure out what he's doing so creative right now and. I know times are hard but I really seeing some great stuff from people. Yeah actually speaking of people being creative with the corn team so this week Mike. Songo the governor of Nairobi announced the care. Packages are going to be delivered. Toil residents that's going to include a food staples and a few bottles Hennessy. What did I so I looked up. There's video of him. And he's saying that Research out of the World Health Organization reveals that alcohol plays a major role in killing viruses. Okay that part is right. This is this is a yes or no like the telephone with themselves like yes. Alcohol does help you know with viruses. But we're talking like ninety nine percent. I so yeah. In alcoholics seventy percent like that is not what we're not talking about COGNAC. Levels bless his heart. You know what I read that Arrows. I smart. You know this is. This is a re election bid and low key working. Yeah like also. Can you even imagine our government giving US liquor? I can't imagine our government. Give us fruit. They would give us expired cheese and a fucking bill even if the federal government are of like local governments right. Now we're like given up care back because I feel like California would do all right because producer you'd get like some Avocados Some fucking we'd Tortilla Georgia now. Yeah can do it. Actually no bottomline fuck it. I would not want a federal care back. I can't I think you're right. I think you'd be like you'd be Shitty in the bill and it would be like super over inflated played the Federal Government is sending everybody. You hungry man. Three hundred dollars in was we're going to take out of your tax burden on your house about it Andrew. The hungry man. Didn't you're going to date and invited your for dinner and you got there and she just did you about hungry man okay. So the story is I'm in college. Goes Girls Place I was. I didn't know a it was like we hung out a couple times the first time that her and I were hanging out and she invited me over her place so slacks and like a college shirt. Yeah during the month I'm thinking in my head I'm like we're going to obviously go out to dinner. Yeah sit down on her couch. I Don I don't eat before I over there. Because it's like you're broken. You're like twenty two. Yeah and we sit on the couch and we're just like watching TV until like nine o'clock at night are like I am dying. Yeah and she didn't offer shit a couple of times I have been like I'm like hey like there's a place down the street you know like let's go and Thai food or you know like my treat and she was like. Oh No you know I was finding. She said if you're hungry food here COOK FOR YEARS. I should okay. That's cool. No you just like sound couch and like whip something up cool she straight up microwave to Hungary meat and served it to me and I ate it and I hate that shit and I never saw her again. And there's nothing wrong with like just microwave and something for somebody to set the expectation even eat with me. Single hungry men dinner. I bring this for my boys. I thought she was going to. Maybe do one for her to or something she she was like. I'm actually not that hungry. I've been here since five o'clock you have not had dinner. I know you're hungry. You're lying and then I do WanNa have some all right. This is your groceries. You bought this guy. This came from your freezer story. You haven't told that no such a long time. I think that might be the first and only hungry man. I've ever had my life only reason. I know that is because when when she started microwave and something I popped in the kitchen. I was like so what's going on here. Hey I'm starting well. We doing the box on the counter. Like oh Lord here we go like of microwave foods. She could've just made microwave nachos and that would have been again again. Offered to take her out. Yeah offered to pay for it. She was not down with any that she wanted selling couch. And she wanted to watch fucking. Ncis out five hours a little bit. Okay well okay. Yeah but like that was not enough and I told all my friends about it Dan. That's crazy she so hot to do that. People by Shooting Food. Leave it in the freezer talking about so like. Matt said at the top of the show we recorded episode of the pod where we made a Frito Pie. We didn't microwave anything and we made it from start to finish. But if you're from Texas or the Mid Western New Mexico you might not know what the fuck we're talking about. It's not a pie out of beyond a lot of people. Were like Frito Pie. I can't make crust is made is made from the break up the FRITOS and they make the pie crust. I got that actually would be more. We're GONNA record this school explain an actual. Frito fuck around the kids love this gourmet okay. But ignore them that said It's not a pie at all. It's basically like Super Messy Nachos no baking involved and it's simply fritos still in the bag. You like. Roll down the bag and you spoon a bunch of Chili on top. Like that's it and you eat it from the bag in Texas and Oklahoma usually see it topped with shredded cheddar cheese. Maybe like some diced onions. But if you want to get fancy. Avocado DICED TOMATOES. Jalapenos fresh or pickled or like green onions. We made a beer cheese sauce. Go on top of ours in that recipe is going to be up on the site to like everything delicious in this world exactly who can lay claim to the creation of the Frito Pie? A very disputed. This is very contentious territory folks because I think are no people in Texas that this would be the hill. They would die off. So new Mexican say it was invented in the nineteen sixties at a woolworth's and Santa fe which is now like there are five and dime by a woman named Theresa Hernandez meanwhile Texans Trace it back to the nineteen thirties claiming San Antonio resident or some with the most Texas name. Daisy Doolan there easy. Do Mother of the guy who invented fritos invented the dish. Hernandez was like a plane version and doolan adorned with cheese and chopped onions. So you don't know fucking avangard. Yeah Oh Doolan is just doing. A- regardless of who invented it. The dish owes everything to Texas according to Houston based Food Writer. Rob Walsh quote. Frito Pie owes its popularity. Texas Highschool stadiums like their concession stands where it's made by just tearing open the bag of chips laying all the options in the condiment holder on top. My Dad is from Oklahoma and I grew up eating them mass from Houston. You grew up eating them all the time like a football game staple yeah no like. We went to the Rodeo Frito Pie. We went to a museum fucking Frito Pie and if you make it at home like I don't eat the bag I think. That's fucking gross. I put it in a in a bowl. That trashy narcolepsy. Yeah what did you say when you told them we were making these? What's the cool? What's the Papa Holloway Quote? So we shot the phone. I send it to my dead and he replies with other places try to clear. Now do it in the voice other places trying to claim it. But it's all ticks like. You didn't even prompt him on like where this came from. I have to explain to them on. I'm going to settle this before you even get a lot of people in Oklahoma and New Mexico run their mouth but this is a famous hater of the Frito Pie is the late great. Anthony Bore Dan on an episode of parts. Unknown twenty thirteen. He tried to Frito Pie when he was in New Mexico and called it quote warm crap in a bag and quote a colostomy pie harsh words for Mr Boorda and he went on quote New Mexico. You have many wonderful things I think. Let Texas have this one Texas wants. This wanted. Well I hate to disagree with the legend of itself but I think it's a nostalgia base dish and so maybe if you didn't grow up eating it like you just won't get it. Frito pies also found all across the Midwest where it's usually referred to as a walking Taco. So you can find this recipe up on our site and you could along with us in the bonus episode and you can hear me getting killed by an onion. Be sure to check out the fetal pie recipe up on a site and check out bunker bites again. This THUG KITCHEN DOT COM SLASH BUNKER. And that is our show this week. We appreciate. Y'All be impatient with our erratic schedule and for tuning in and shout out to our producer. Sean putting up with US every james put up with us. Do you know how many times matches like a weird noise into the mic? Or it's just like what what bubbled up human being. Shut out to our producer Sean and shot to the potty. Y'All stay safe and we will see our next week.

Frito Pie Texas New Mexico South Korea Oklahoma federal government producer Matt Holloway getty Anthony Bore Dan Amazon California Greece Oreo Keira Getty Museum president Chuck Frito pies
COVID-19 Travel News: March 30

The World Nomads Podcast

09:55 min | 6 months ago

COVID-19 Travel News: March 30

"In this episode self isolating remote Kenyan village things to do to keep your travel bug alive and the business idea flying off the shelves when come to the new daily podcast keeping you up to date with travel alerts information about Gerona virus and sharing some uplifting news and used to inspire you and keep you smiling. Hi It's Kim and filled with the lightest cove in nineteen headlines at the time of reporting of course and and we'll find out also in this episode one. It's like two so fossilized in an indigenous village. Very interesting chess fair enough. I thought we were Kenyan village when you started that off anyway but I here. I am on still in my pillow. Fort Insignia Nina. You got look again. At the time of recording the number of cases of the viruses over seven hundred thousand globally the countries with the mice reported cases of the United States Italy China Spain and Germany but one of the most famous straits in the world has had the chance of paint job taking advantage of the lockdown in the UK council workers have repainted the Zebra crossing the. What's the other word for Zebra crossing walk on outside the studios? That was the one with the Beatles on it for the front of their album. Made it very very famous gets worn out by semi tourists copying fight graph. Well I've done it. He go ahead. I if you are thinking of a business I am an. I like to think of myself as an ideas person. While you stuck at harm nothing ever comes off the this one is taking off and it was literally before the virus turned the world upside down. A woman has created stained glass films that fit onto apply windows. There is an ever expanding list of things you can do online to keep the travel bug alive including a tour of abandoned places around the world. I think about gun do that. One and you can get crafty with the Getty Museum in La. They're asking people to recreate famous paintings using ordinary items from home. Put Lincoln the China. It's binding as well. Now is an indigenous African woman who studied at Yale and she was writing an article for us about coastal Kenya so I had initially reached out to his guest for our destination. Whole cast aside on Kenya but then realized that she could offer a perspective on the virus. They are not realizing in Kenya that we would capture this unique inside so right now. I'm in the southeastern. I mean. South western region of the country But around two and a half weeks ago I was in Nairobi and I got here Five or six days before the first case was announced. So the first case was I. I believe March. Thirteenth is on candidates. Worse case of Krona virus and it was from a Kenyan national who had traveled from Chicago back to Kenya so much like the other countries on the African continent. The viruses brought here via airplane by a traveller Which I think speaks volumes kind of the situation on the continent as a whole that it's really been about global migration and global froze and since then even before the first case was announced. There's a heightened awareness and kind of this heightening anxiety about the virus coming in. We were already getting the adverts about hygiene washing your hands and keeping distance but as soon as that first case was announced All of the schools were closed I believe for a month and They instructed people to work from home if possible. We're not out of lockdown level. But social distancing is being They're trying to enforce that so it really what's happening in. Kenya is exactly what's happening in the rest of the world. Absolutely and I think it's interesting that there isn't a lot of discourse about what's happening in Africa. There seems to be this myth. That corona virus can't touch Africans or that it can own it can't flourish in African to Climates and. I think that's a pretty dangerous. Meant to be spreading around just because we are feeling the impact of it. But what we're really trying to prevent is like an exponential growth year that we've seen in other countries And I think it's good that we've been able to close our borders as also very unprecedented in African history. Will you and your grandparents village. What are they thinking about it? What did I make this so in the village everyone watches news every night? That's what we do so we're watching the news from Nairobi. And there's a lot of anxiety but it's mainly it's expressing itself in in somewhat like jokes just because social distancing has very difficult to implement within the village environment. I think that people forget that Africa we're indigenous leaser. Indigenous communities at a huge part of the indigenous. Social Fabric is passing by your neighbor's home bringing them. You know the vegetables that you just fucked from the farm or stopping by just to say hello. So there's kind of a fear about how to change their lifestyle to accommodate. These demands at the government is making about social distancing And I was just reading on the news. There's even study done. And they were saying that. Only around three percent of Kenyans have been properly following the social distancing regulations. And that's very much something. I'm seeing here in the village We're trying to. It's it's common courtesy to shake someone's hand when you say hello to them That's something that we're trying to replace fist-bump or a wrist from but across the board. I'd say it's very challenging to implement those regulations within this region just by the way that life functions I absolutely an in a few or Kenner is intent on flattening that curve and it comes to a look down how it a village cope with that. Oh my goodness I think we would cope with it better than people anticipate after getting over the social challenges of you know staying isolated in the home one thing one great asset that the village has that were totally self sufficient on food so for example here at my grandmother's we grow everything we eat. We grow the bananas. We grow the Greens. Pineapples Passion Fruit Avocado all in the backyard. So there isn't a sense of panic buying Let's go to the grocery store because we need to stock up on two months worth of food. We don't even have a fridge. That's big enough to hold that much food. However the biggest and the most damning challenge would be the healthcare infrastructure that saved the cases. Do proceed to the place where people need ventilators. The closest hospital is around forty minutes away from here and even that hospital doesn't have the capacity to save capacities hospitals in Nairobi. Do Right So here it's really about prevention in trying to stick to the social distancing which like I said presents it's own challenges. So there's there's definitely pros and cons to be out here right now. I want to come to play. He's just eating a passion food actually from the from the backyard but I mean the fear is is very much there because this is something that the village has never had to face before we there aren't health issues like that out here and it's clear that this Kobe things that is touching everyone so globally. It feels a little like we coming together. It's almost like the world needed these and the earth native this pose does that sound airy-fairy no absolutely. I feel that entirely. I think we're globally saying the impacts that capitalism his hat on the way that we relate one another relate to our workplaces will they swap institutions of learning and for the first time the whole world is being forced to sit inside and sit with ourselves and think like wow what do I really want to be in this world? How do I want to you want to survive? And I think it's you know not to make a grim but this is making us all kind of interact with the prospect of dying in a very proximate way even if it's not our own passing it's the the threat of danger to the people that we love which I think brings us into a very purposeful mode of thinking. Like wow this life means a lot to me in this way and to feel the global solidarity of people all around the world sharing in this moment of Hammond to sit with themselves makes us remember our own humanity in ways that I think we're long overdue. We've been in this mode of doing doing doing. I'm Lee young adult in this world. Kind of figuring out my place figuring out what what I want. What work I want to dedicate my life to his. Felt so daunting. Within like the hyper capitalist worlds to have to think about production all the time and this pause I think is one that we all needed. Earth certainly made it. Sorry we'll sit and fill NAMA has invited me to her grandparents village win. This is all over and it. Sounds Idyllic. She's GonNa wish that she didn't buy one nine. What's hit them? We we do share this of border shutdown in show notes. Can you by the way has suspended traveled from any country with reported covered nineteen cases? It's just everywhere is yeah pretty much. Say Sorry to share your story a mile. Podcast DEMETZ DOT com tomorrow. Stephen He's story about being in military quarantining cooks Dan after returning from what was supposed to be. He's waiting in Istanbul an hour. How is that viewed inside important? The war nomads. Podcast Royal Bhandari's.

Kenya Nairobi Africa Fort Insignia Nina Beatles United States Italy China Spai Kim UK Getty Museum Istanbul Chicago Stephen He China La Germany Royal Bhandari Yale Lincoln
Episode 48- AI; Only As Good As Its Developer (Part One)

Sound in Marketing

21:34 min | 2 months ago

Episode 48- AI; Only As Good As Its Developer (Part One)

"A I is only as good as the data we give it in. If no human is giving that data, we're GONNA miss it every single time, and that's a problem. We have in the industry right now. Companies are just starting, and they are just now building voice development teams data science teams in machine. Learning teams as they do that. It is going to be very easy for them to find eight homogeneous group of people to do that work, because that's the goose we have now we know better now. We know that that does not create great products that appease or serve all of the constituents that were trying to serve with our products. Release them so now we have a chance to do. Do it over, and this is long before we start then automating what we're doing with machines with Ai. We need to make sure that we're willing to invest. What takes time is waiting and being patient to actually populate your team would just as many women as men with just as many people of color people with different philosophies, sexual orientations gender identities and physical abilities. You will get better products at the end. You won't go through with companies like Amazon facebook going to right now where they're shutting down models that they spent millions sometimes billions of dollars building. They're not diverse enough. This is literally a diversity of thought. Problem Ai only works well wanted. Data set is diverse, the only way to. is by having people who know to ask those types of questions. Welcome to the sound in marketing podcast. Today I get the pleasure of talking with Noel Silver Welcome to the show Noel. Did you so much for? So I think it'd be best if we just start with snapshot of You what you do, and how fits into data, science and voice. Yeah, absolutely, so my I actually started off my career in check but it was for like major tech companies started IBM was there for like ten years and went to red hat. In in all of these traditions I was always kind of like the trainer slash consultant, slash, developer, person, and but I. I got very excited about education. Teaching people how to use the technology just keeps evolving as we both know right just in this industry, things keep changing socially Pasha educating people and then at some point I became I was asked by Amazon to join their organization to really help them build out a education to aws for online services, but a year after I took that job Alexis was born and it kind of changed the trajectory A. Career that thousand, twenty, thirteen, twenty fourteen Alexa hasn't been launched yet. either they were launching Beta products, which I ended up having still have one of my kitchen. and. This. What it did, is it basically it started a journey down? Artificial intelligence data science machine learning ethics that they would never have expected because back then. We didn't even know if it would work. Like, the product have munched. Nobody had talked to a kitchen device before, but it definitely was a it was a pivotal moment where I was like I'm going to do something. I never thought I could ever do before but after that I spent three and a half years. They are launched four languages on Alexa. and. Then I got very interested in other models, so to Microsoft's and lead I was on the engineering team there where there was about seventeen different ai models that I care in fed four advocated for and I'm still trying to advocate, or because they're. They're models of any developer canoes. API, at no one knows. And so I'm a big believer now. In how do I educate more people to use a I correctly? F- agree but also not waste their effort building other things so I went to NPR for a little bit to run their engineering team, which is funded exciting I. Love my family NPR. But during this pandemic, I started to think very differently about my career, and my choice is what I wanted to do. So just recently in the last couple of months I decided to take a role. At, hacker, you who, at this company, basically, our job is to help reinvent university education, so were I am the head of instruction which basically means i. read all the instructors as well as the curriculum development in engineering teams for both data science in lakes, end full stack web development, but it allows me for the first time ever to create voice technology education in a university setting, so I'm super excited because it's like groundbreaking work. And we get to actually set up. You know new engineers for the first time. A home we get to actually say here's what we want you to know and we'll talk about several of the things that I think is important for them to know. At the beginning of their career as opposed to trying to like. In twenty years later. That is so exciting because there's not as far as I know. There isn't anything like I've been out of college for almost twenty years, so it's changed a little bit but I, I'm pretty sure there's not very much out there to begin with so to standardize something to have the opportunity to standardize something is so amazing and so powerful, exciting very exciting. I wanted to talk about a kind of an expose that you are part of Ken. Robots make art or at least a segment or something. Very exciting stuff I'm not I'll just preface this I? Don't get art. I don't get like paintings. It's either pretty, or it's not, and they move on, and so the introspective like. It's really not and I went with my French the Getty Museum years ago and I just like I looked, and then I looked, and then I looked, and then all of a sudden. He's two rooms behind me, I'm like what is he doing? He's still standing there. So anyways, if you could go ahead and explain what this was about, because, this would benefit people like me are. Absolute and it's actually a critical way to do all in my mind. Any project involves AI machine, learning or data science. What happened was we wanted to make sure we wanted to create? A collaboration and that collaboration was between data, scientists engineers at MIT. And the curator at the Metropolitan Museum of art, and at the time we started, we didn't know what the outcome would be that. The NBC nightly news like expose was actually the outcome of the fact that we ended up building something meaningful. But at the beginning of that project we didn't know, but we knew that in order to solve any problems for the industry or for the museum industry any problems. If we wanted to solve them, we had to get the person with the problem in the room to help off and I think that's critical lesson for anyone who's building with technology that you have to have the person with the pain. Dr The product direction. You can't think you can empathize enough like this is part of the having diverse or A diverse group of people you have to have someone who actually knows the problem. And, so we met with the curator's. It was funny, because similarly they were like they had a very specific perspective on tack. Basically that it had no business in art, it was like an awkward high school dance where the data scientists for on one side of the room, and the curator's were on the other, and they were all kind of like. Yeah, this is fun. You know, but not talking to each other. In over the course of a two period they got two teams started talking about the problems that they experienced years one. That's interesting that we solved which was. What happens when a curator and if you look at curation similar to tech, it's a very homogeneous to like group of people that get into this work on. There's not a lot of diversity. I mean unfortunately. So, there's just it's homogeneous nature as a result, even though it's, it's not I. Don't WanNa say intentional just as a result of a certain type of people tagging all the art, they use the same words to tag all the art. Even if the art was culturally associated with the different demographic, and they wouldn't know the words right, they wouldn't know what a culture call. Call what Hispanic Culture would call some? So they would just call it a chair or a table when it actually could have been a very symbolic reference, the challenge with this is that the art then doesn't become accessible like I can't search for it as Latina. Who knows what that's called I can't search for it by the name that it's authentically known as because. The person who tagged it didn't not attack it that way, and so what we did is we used ai combined right with the curator going. Here's my struggle I. Don't know the word sees they could say. Here's what I think it is a I could then go in search, right and say this. You Know Hispanic reference in this time frame and he could search for words that represent that that tat and it just augment the existing work the Kurdish doing it doesn't take away their job. They're still necessary, but it lets them be better at their job. Bright by exposing more opportunity to get the right tags on the right art so that it's accurately portrayed within the you know the curation. I thought that was magical. Because there's no way for individuals to do that as human, you only know the words in your head. You can't be faulted for not knowing if you're not Spanish. You can't be altered for not knowing that end if you have. They had literally twenty five thousand years of art to curate tag. You're not going to be able to do research. The saint like at super deep level on every single. You'll never ever finish, so hey. I is a perfect solution. In this case and then we also of course in Alexis scale, which is what my piece was about. We built on Alexa skill. They went against this newly tagged art and allowed someone like my son who has down syndrome to be able to use his voice and navigate. Say What's the art of today? Today and it would pop art, and then he could ask questions he like Oh. Who's this artist or oh, I like that color or whatever words he wanted to say, and it will generate new art or Goan find new art that was similar to the things that he would say to the system so so yeah, I think the biggest benefit I got out of. It was just seeing how important was that? The curator's were as important to the process as technology was. And I think also you mentioned in the in the story line that having this kind of accessibility might bring people into the museum. That wouldn't go because they know they don't have the accessibility. Right that moment you know that's, but if they know like if they have special needs of some sort, but they know that it's going to help assist them. They might be more. More adept to go, and you might get a whole new audience of people as right experience. Otherwise, that's right, and especially like the Metropolitan Museum of art, and some of these big names like the Louvre in France, and all these places that are not accessible to everyone, but I've recently I have a lot of different types of people in my network in a person with. Significant physical disabilities was like. Do you know that one in five people have physical disability? And what shocked me about? That was a bit success. Ability tastes like. Why would I not everything that I? Do Experience as a technologist I'd WANNA make accessible to one fifth of our population. The use Giancana to not care about, but then even in the workforce I, you know. Coming from a place empathy like how would we even not think to build for that audience? In the twenty years I've been in engineering I've never worked with anyone with Jessica disabilities ever. How's it possible because I? Know like cognitively. They're the same. They have the same dreams they WANNA be software our software engineers. There's something broken their. Diversity Lens of Lake I. WanNa. Be Thinking about that as an junior. Why isn't there someone on my team? That represents. That could directly to it and provide that perspective and drive that user experience I think that's something that needs more research I definitely think. You were talking about how ai gives you the possibility of having access to. Knowledge that you wouldn't if you're not from Mexico or Spain or Russia or whatever, but you could start the process a little earlier if you had more physical human diversity. That's right machine. Learning still has a ways to go and misunderstands things, and there could be some sort of like very subtle slaying of. The people of like Macho Pichu. That only happened in a five year span where they used a word that never got used again. I don't know there's just something that they only use in the context of a family that they would never say similarly to us. There's ways we communicate among friends that we would never stand on a stage and communicate, but it's still a rich part of the human experience that might change. We design a product in so yeah I think he missed that. Of course is only as good as the data we give it. No human is giving that data. We're going to miss it every single time. I and that's a problem. We have in the industry right now. That were you know. Bunch of US are trying to solve a lot of different ways. When my brother, he was in the Peace Corps, his senior year of college and he went to Mali and the language that they spoke was he had to learn it through immersion because it was, it was a spoken language, it was never written down so the only way that he learned it, was he? He was in the capital of Mali for about a month with a host family. It was amazing because my brother is awful at languages. Awful like he spent, he took four years of Spanish in high school and nothing. Nothing nothing and he spent a month of immersion in this African. Country in he picked it up. It fell out of his brain once he came home, but he picked it up and he'd be talking to me. And then he turned 'cause the Milkman would be there, and he just say words and I was like who are you so? There is something to having like a human to human connection to explain things to each other, and to explain things the AI so just to your point and everything's the voice community, and even a in general. It's very new community it's it's been around for a few years, but definitely a shorter amount of time then some other mediums that are out there. How do you think that it has the possibility to create a structure and a foundation that is more? Inclusive and diverse. How we go about that since we're in the brand new stages of it, we have an opportunity to not make the mistakes we did before. Are there ways in data science that you can think of specifically? Yeah, I think I think that it's important is actually kind of? Similar to what you just said, which is, it's more of a human activity than a machine activity in the beginning like we do need to make sure that we are prioritising investing in creating a diverse workforce right now companies are just starting, and they are just now building voice development teams, and they're just now building data science teams in machine, learning teams, and as they do that. It is going to be very easy for them to find a homogeneous group of people to do that work, because that's the grizzly have now right in check. And I say that, of course you know just to be completely candid remarks like a white male on. Which is, it is what it is, but it is certainly a fact we know better now. We know that that does not create great products that appease or serve all of the constituents that were trying to serve with our products when we release them, so we know that that doesn't work so now. We have a chance to do it over, and this is long before we start then automating what we're doing with machines with. Is Like we need to make sure that we're willing to invest in when I say that, it's because it'll take you much less time to get a homogeneous t 'cause you. Can just you know? A group of in Oh. There's a huge industry full of white male technical experts. What takes time is waiting and being patient to actually populate your team with just as many women as men with just as many people of color as not with just as many people with different philosophies, sexual orientations gender identities like. Physical Abilities It is more expensive to be diverse. That is some I. If people don't know that I think they do know it because it's one of the reasons why we don't do it, because it costs more time in or money to wait for a team that is fully diverse, however as with all good things. If you pay that money upfront, you, won't you get better products at the end? You won't go through companies like Amazon and facebook going to right where they're shutting down models that they spent millions sometimes billions of dollars building. They're shutting down because they're not diverse enough. So we as the voice community can really own the responsibility of building diverse teams in our consulting companies that were creating startups that were building, and even in the relationship to larger companies that were building like we need to hold companies accountable. If we look and see, everybody's one type of person, and this is true, even if it's all women, it's just as bad or all people of color like this is literally a diversity of thought problem I only works well when the data said is diverse in. In the only way to get that is by having people who know to ask those types of questions and I. It's very rare right now to see a team. That's just richly diverse you know, show up in the industry and so I think we have to just start making different choices in being willing to be patient and spend more time and money to go those teams so I'm hoping that the voice industry you know seeing that they have a new opportunity, and it takes advantage of back. I agree and also just talking about putting the investment on the front end of it. If you have more inclusion. You have more You can create more of an emotional connection. You can create a stronger product and brand that speaks the right messaging to the right people, and if you're just guessing. Shoot. So, yes I, really looking forward to. I really hope and pray that this does happen that this opportunity isn't missed by the voice community. And I just I. Feel like they're ripe for this because. Everybody's so nice and that's weird to say it that way, but there's so nice and everyone's supportive of other, and it's just a great opportunity to to further that yeah I think there are organizations even now that are starting to think about standards and build standard so I. Think it's it's staff I see some groundwork happening, but it you know diversity is of belong game. You know it's not like you can do these tactical things and see results immediately, obviously been in the industry twenty plus years, and there is actually negative change on people of Color and specifically Latin Americans like myself. In that space like we're? Our numbers are dwindling which. It's honey I. Think most companies would say that they've invested in that effort overtime like they've constantly invested in it, but the results aren't there and so yeah. I really think that we as the voice community have a different opportunity to say. What are we going to do strategically and tactically then how are we gonNA hold ourselves accountable to move that needle forward instead instead of just like we're GonNa do training and the only metric for success if Not If you actually change the thing. As Noel so eloquently, put it machine. Learning is only as good as its operators. We in the voice industry have a responsibility to include a more diverse cast to this voice story. We're telling if our developers and programmers and voice, linguists and sales associates are only fill in the blank here then. That's all that we can honestly train ai to be. That's also the only demographic that we can honestly believe we'll be selling. For more of the sound and marketing podcast don't forget to follow. Subscribe share. You can find us on. ITUNES spotify Google! Play iheartradio! Pandora institure. For inquiries on producing and developing your own podcast, or for inquiries on sonic branding and sonic. Brennan Consultation availabilities. You can find me a dreamer productions. That's D. R.. A. AND OUR PRODUCTIONS DOT COM linked in and facebook. You can also email me at Gina. J. E., A. N., A. Hat. DREAMER PRODUCTIONS DOT COM. All links will be provided in the show notes. This episode was produced by driller productions and hosted written and edited by me Gina. Sean Let's make this world of sound, more intriguing, more unique and more and more on brand.

AI Amazon Noel Silver Metropolitan Museum of art facebook IBM Mali NPR NBC Getty Museum At developer Gina Microsoft MIT Pandora Lake I. WanNa Alexa.
The Gettys | Taken | 1

Even the Rich

49:04 min | 3 months ago

The Gettys | Taken | 1

"A quick note. We're going to be throwing around some four letter words in this one Oh, and we're gonNA butcher the Italian language to, but luckily we don't know how to curse in Italian. Bongino Brooke and we're speaking Italian because today I'm taking you to Rome well figuratively anyway Tam had I was just packing my bags. Figuratively of course I'm not crazy. Sorry about that or should I say miss cousy, because that's pretty much all the Italian. I, remember my dueling. Go Up, but bear with me because Brooke Have I. Got The story for you. Boyle No. That's all the Italian. I remember from Babbel Class Great. Imagine. It's three a M on July tenth nineteen seventy-three and you're in the Piazza Pharmacy. It's like this large open plaza in the heart of Rome. The Eternal City during the day the Piazza is filled with tons of people were talking tourists, locals, hippies guys in suits, but at night the Piazza transformed into a nightlife paradise better than Vegas. hipsters spill out of discotheques and Dodge Fiat's invest buzz as they make their way past late night cafes I can practically taste grappa tonight. One of the Literati leaving the clubs is a young guy with curly reddish hair. He's like this cross between Harry Styles and Jim Morrison. His name is Paul. Hall is an American living in Rome and tonight he's been doing what he usually does tossing back, but Cardi cokes at a bar with some of Rome's beautiful people and getting thrown out of a club for hassling ago dancer Paul Sounds like a little shithead yet. Definitely and he's still a teenager. Anyway so as he walks home, he leaves the crowds. Wind and turns down cobblestoned sidestreet. Suddenly a big white car races up the doors fly open, and three men jump out waving pistols. One of them cracks him on the back of the head Paul Screams obviously yeah, but the thugs just shove him into the backseat, tie his hands, and smother his face with a chloroform soaked rag until he passes out holy Shit. It all happened so fast that nobody sees anything. And then the car is gone, and the streets are totally silent like he just got swallowed up by the dark. Paul is gone. Wow, poor hand, the Little Guy, not poor guy, poor kid I wasn't kidding. Paul is only sixteen years old. Just before the kidnappers picked him up, he stopped to buy a Mickey Mouse Comic Book So Seventies Club, kid who harasses go go dancers, but also reads Disney comics now kidnapped got it. Two days later, Gail Harris home alone in her apartment in Rome Galas Paul's mom. She's thirty eight an American expat and she hasn't seen her son in a few days. It's not unusual. He is a free spirit, and she recently led him move in with friends, but then she gets a phone call. When Gail picks up a man with a muffled voice tells her. He has her son Paul she doesn't believe in. He says we are kidnappers. Your son is safe, but if you want him back, you're going to have to pay a lot of money. Guilt tells them. She doesn't have a lot of money, but it's not really her money. He's after he says. Then you'd better ask a father in law. Technically. The man he's referring to is her ex father. She divorced Paul's dad years ago in the past decade. She's barely even spoken to her former father in law and she's terrified to ask him for money. Because even though it's true, he's insanely rich. He really doesn't like to part with his money like he's too stingy to pay for his kidnapped grandson. Well to be fair. The guy thinks his grandson is a hippie. Deadbeat won't but still who is this? Guy John. Paul Getty ever heard of him. Oh. Yes, I have sort of I mean I've heard of getty oil. And of course the Getty Museum yeah, that's him okay. An thousand nine hundred ninety three John Paul Getty is v. richest man in the history of the world. Thank God, Getty's worth around two billion dollars, which is like nine billion dollars today. The sixteen year, old boy, who was kidnapped on the streets of Rome, was John Paul Getty the third who everyone called Paul and when grandpa getty finds out, he might have to cough up some of his dough to save his wayward Branson. Let's just say broke. He makes Ebeneezer. Scrooge looked like a big spender, so not only is he? The richest man ever buddy sounds like one of the cheapest to yeah and the worst part. That's just the tip of the iceberg, so he just doesn't pay the ransom. What happens to Paul well well well? Wouldn't you like to know now that she's on the other foot Brooke all right fine? Poran Myself Oprah Sakho. Wait, we can I. Have No, you can't. We support from perfect bar. The folks who know that nourishing your body with whole foods and good vibes just makes you feel great. Yes, and if you're listening to this and you haven't tried perfect bars, serious question, what are you waiting for your? They have a whole lineup of fresh from the fridge protein snacks that you and your entire family will love. Perfect bar is the original refrigerated protein bar free from chemical preservative. You store perfect bars in the fridge for optimal taste and texture. They're made with freshly ground, nut, butter and. Honey and they have up to seventeen grams of whole food protein. They're also non GMO gluten, free, soy, free and kosher with flavors like dark chocolate, peanut, butter, coconut, peanut, butter, almond butter. There's a favourite perfect bar for everyone. My favorite is by far the coconut peanut butter, cups, and I usually am not a coconut fan. Yeah, but are by far my favorite and I eat them at night like it's a desert, but easy I love. Love the dark chocolate peanut butter and it's just it's tastes so good, and it's a protein bar, which is great for grabbing on the else and right now. Perfect bar is offering fifteen percent off your online order. Just go to perfect bar dot com slash rich shop. Refrigerated snacks at perfect bar dot com slash rich today to get fifteen percent off your order. That's perfect bar dot com slash rich to stock up and say fifteen percent. From under I'm Risha, skidmore, Williams and I'm Brooks Ephron Amiss is even the rich where we bring you absolutely true, an absolutely shocking stories about the greatest family dynasties. The world has ever seen. It's a show about power how you get it how you keep it and what happens when it goes to your head? It's also about how the rich are just like us, because even the rich love and cry and dream and hope and saying happy birthday twice while washing their hands. My hands have never been so clean. Mine have never been so dry. So Brooke a ratio. I'm taking the wheel on this one because I am obsessed with this story. It's about the kidnapping of Paul Getty and it has everything you'd want in a nail biting thriller sacks drugs. Pasta my top three faves for sure I know. But in the early seventies, the Getty kidnapping was basically the biggest story in the world and put this family that super rich, and super private under a magnifying glass, and the view is not pretty. This is a four part series on the kidnapping of Paul Getty and this is episode one taken. Okay. Brooke picture this. The Sun is coming up over a giant sixteenth century estate outside of London called Sutton place in front is a sprawling lawn, leading to a Tudor Style House with seventy two rooms and five hundred windows as a former housekeeper. Yes, I've had tons of random jobs. I'd hate to have to wash those windows. What about those seventy two rooms had maybe power through? Inside this mansion John Paul. Getty is slowly making his way to the study. There's a giant German shepherd behind him. He's like his constant companion. He actually has twelve giant German shepherds who guard the place actually he also is a lion out outback. He's quite fond of. He calls him Nero Gettysburg into the Roman emperor thing. He's already been up a few hours talking to people at his oilfields. In the Middle East, it's thanks to those fields by the way that he went from kinder rich to Guinness World. Records rich now he's moving slowly because while he's eighty years old, but he still totally put together. He's got on a Taylor dark suit, a crisp dress shirt and a blue tie with a pin dot pattern. Every detail around him is picture perfect and everything is expensive to like. Take the renaissance painting. He shuffles past. It's worth four million dollars. It's the world's most expensive painting per square inch. At that point. His study is so big. It takes them a minute just to get to his job Norma's desk machine spits out stock reports from the day. It's where he does all his oil business stuff and inside the top drawers where he also keeps his bottles of prescription pills. Getty Secretary pokes her head into the study to tell him that Gail Harris. County is calling and insisting she speak to him about some urgent news. Take a message. He responds gruffly. If only he knew it was about a kidnapping in family. Oh, he already know. He knows it's already in the papers and Getty's been reading sordid details about young Paul like he's living with hot German twins or a hippie artist who begs for money in the Piazza's around Rome and all afternoon. Oldman getty has been shuffling around his massive estate, turning over theory about what he thinks of the kidnapping when. A frumpy, but well dressed man with graying blond hair and full cheeks catches up to him. Sir Sir. He calls out. This guy's been with getty for thirty years. His name is norse. Bramlett show. You're not allowed to make up. Names snores as a real person I swear. He's Getty's right hand man. As he norris walk. Getty asks you don't suppose. The boy in his mother cooked this up to get money out of me, do you? Norris is like beg your pardon sir, but what kind of person would think up something so calculating? Okay. What was that exit? Norris is from Texas and my accents are spot on. Thank you, okay, all right, so let me get this right. giddy thinks his grandson. An Ex daughter-in-law are staging this kidnapping as an elaborate hoax to get his money and he's not the only one who thinks it's a possibility. The press is throwing out all kinds of theories and most of them. Don't believe the kidnapping story. The Daily Mail writes that Paul is more likely in the hands of a bewitching Frenchwoman than ransom, seeking gangsters and the banner headline of the Italian, daily joke or kidnap. The conclusion is he simply disappeared almost all of the papers put the word kidnapping in quotes like it's a prank. On C. Paul wasn't exactly well respected by the authorities. Even when Gil called the police on that first night when she learned her son was kidnapped when the cops got to her apartment, they basically told her they don't believe her. They think he's probably off getting stoned with his pals. We know your son. They say what's that supposed to mean meaning? They think he's a punk. Apparently Paul went to some left-wing demonstration and got arrested. The have been Yeti said he threw a Molotov cocktail at them. Katamon Yeti those are Italian Coutts Wow. Italian is so romantic. You can be like Yo I crap out a bus and it sounds like a come on. Yeah, we should definitely try that when we take. Our Italy trips. Paul was on the COP Shit. List, even before that they call him the Golden. Hippie is their way of making fun of the fact that he comes from this loaded family, but lives like a free spirit, and even if he doesn't personally have any money, his family does and kidnapping for ransom is a fairly common thing in Italy. In the years before Paul's disappearance, there were more than fifty kidnappings, and those are the ones that were reported I read about this wealthy doctor Vincenzo Lodo who was throwing a party when masked kidnappers crashed in and tried to drag him away. Apparently low fought back and the kidnappers opened fire and killed his wife and brother. They also accidentally killed one of their own guys. Thank God! It's like a scorsese movie. Yeah, so for the cops not to even consider that Paul might be. Another victim is kind of bonkers. If you ask me when they finally take off, they tell gale not to talk to the press and then get this like an hour later. Her phone starts ringing first. ABC Van NBC and CBS, and before you can say `Paparazzi. She's got. Of reporters camped on her doorstep. So the cops leak the story or maybe a reporter paid them off. Who knows the bottom line is that gail seems like pretty much. The only person who actually believes Paul has been. Oh and Paul's girlfriend Martine. ooh, Martin. I love that name that tablet headline about Paul shacking up with German twins. That part was true. Martinez twenty four year old German with dark hair. Pale skin big. Joe Is Paul's been living with her and her sister, and they are the it girls of Bohemian Rome, they model, and they do garde films and Martinez Crazy about Paul, they've. They've been together for almost a year on July seventeenth seven days after the kidnapping. She gets a letter from Paul. There will actually be a lot of letters in this story, so stay with me. The letter comes in a red envelope and it's marked express. The first words are dear mummy. Hold on, so the girlfriend gets a letter from Paul, addressed his mother, weird right. The letter says dear mummy. I've fallen into the hands of. Don't let me be killed and not to take the note as a job to follow the kidnappers instructions once they're given. Oh and this is heartbreaking I want to live and be free again. Pay I beg you pay up as soon as possible. If you wish me well, no Martinos Paul's handwriting and she knows it's him and she hurries over Paul's mom. GAELS house to give it to her, but gail is an at home, so she's like. What should I do now? Martine takes it to the police. They read it over, and they're not convinced Israel. She ends up being questioned for hours by the COPS. She tells them that have been following Paul for weeks and he was really scared. He's a boy with a heart. She says he's intelligent I don't believe this is a joke, but they're not buying it. So does gale ever get the letter not right away, but it doesn't actually matter because in the exact same day. That letter comes to Martine. Gail gets another phone call from the kidnappers. A guy tells her she needs to pay the ransom or else. Things are going to get bad for Paul real fast. She asked him how she can be sure. Her son is even alive, and the guy says we'll cut off a finger to prove it. She's like no I'm good thanks when she hangs up the phone. The wheels are turning. Her House is currently surrounded by reporters, so she figures I'm going to use that to my advantage. She goes into her room picks out a bright red silk blouse wipes away her tears, and then she walks resolutely to the front door takes a deep breath. and. She clears her throat and says. I want to make a statement, but not here. Twenty minutes later. Italy's top news network is set up in her living room. Yes, we had contact and like to ask through the press that they communicate to. These people's of the family is ready to negotiate more than that I cannot say it's just that I want press communicates. Houston family is. This family is to negotiate. Man She sounds scared. Stress meter through the roof, but she's trying to keep her head on straight by time and communicate with the kidnappers the only way she can or right now. She has no idea how much they want or how she's even going to pay. Okay can I ask possibly a silly question? Always talking always, where is young Paul's dad and all this I mean? The Dad's the one who's actually related to getty right? So why is it Gaels job to get money from her ex father in law? Great Question Love It. The data actually lives in London guild. Did call her ex the very first night. She learned of the kidnapping. What's his name John Paul Junior? How God okay? Wait a minute. There are way too many Johns and Palma mystery. Can we come up? Up with a way to keep everybody straight like. Can we just call John Paul? Getty GRANDPA how about we call the old man JP? I guess that works okay, and his son is John Junior, and then we've got Hippie, Paul who's the kidnapped grandson. Perfect got it okay, got so for John Junior the one, London, let's just say the last few years have been tough on the old boy. He's a hot mess and GAL calls him and asks him to appeal to old man's AP John Junior just says No. He hasn't spoken to His dad and years, and he's not about to start now not even to help his kidnapped son, even the rich or selfish and dysfunctional. Back at Sutton, place, John Paul. Getty J.. P. Rate. JP is doing everything. He can't ignore the headlines he hates. The press always has, but it isn't easy with his ex daughter-in-law. Call him a mansion twice a day and don't forget her. Very public statement that the family is ready to negotiate and buy family. JP's probably thinking. She means him. He is the Patriarch and the richest man in the world after all, but JP didn't get rich by negotiating. In fact, JP doesn't negotiate with anyone. The perks of being rich now. He basically locks down his estate. He refuses all calls from the Press and tells the staff not to let any reporters, and then he asked Rubin alum to issue a statement. She's his very shrewd. thirty-seven-year-old legal adviser. Slash Companions Lash Lover. That's a Lotta side hustles. That's almost as many jobs I've had almost. I have the statement here. Do you want to read it? I'll give it a go. Although I see my grandson infrequently, and I'm not particularly close to him. I love him nonetheless, however I don't believe in paying kidnappers. Other grandchildren, and if I pay one penny now that I will have fourteen kidnapped grandchildren. Wow, that is stone cold right, which is pretty much what everyone thinks. How could the richest man in the world refused to save his grandson? What an Asshole! Well! Everyone thinks that accept Robaina she says he's a warm guy and a good dancer. If! He's a great dancer. That's all that matters. I'm just thinking what that must have felt like to gail. It's like a big Fu. You're on your own lady. I know, but I can't imagine. She surprised she did marry into the family. She knows who he is, but to understand how he got that way. You gotta go back to how it all started. Hey Brooke WanNa know a secret to natural looking foundation. Of course I do the luminous silk foreign one airbrush system. It blends your foundation flawlessly into the skin combining moisturizer. You're anti aging serum. Your concealed under Andrew Foundation for flawless younger-looking coverage, and unlike traditional liquid foundation and powders, which can exaggerate the signs of aging the luminous. Silk Air Brush system uses ten times less makeup, and here's how it works. You find your foundation color tell. Tell them about your current foundation and about Your Skin and upload your photo with over eighteen shades to choose from luminous guarantees, a one hundred percent shade match. Listen when I tell you that. I've been wanting to try an airbrush makeup system for years. That is not an over exaggeration, so I was super excited when we got luminous, and it really does have amazing coverage, and it's just like lighting area. It's not heavy at all, yeah? I don't very often wear makeup and a big part of that is. I don't like stuff on my face and so what I love about this is. It doesn't feel like there's anything on. My face doesn't take it all. It's very light. It's it's amazing, and they've got limited offer for you right now. Go to trysofi. Dot Com slash rich. Get sixty percent off your luminous silk for in one airbrush system. That's try silk dot com slash rich to get smoother, fuller and more natural, looking foundation coverage visit, try silk dot com slash rich today. Sports are more than just a game for the women who play coach and broadcast them. There away way to change the perception of women and push society further toward acceptance and equality I'm Nancy Armor and I'm the host of changing the game a new podcast from USA Today sports where I sit down with icons Olympians and trailblazers to talk about their careers and the impact. They've had beyond the playing field. The conversations are personal and powerful offering. Aside you don't see on the court or the field this week on. On changing the game, we talk with Olympic gold medalist. Laurie Hernandez about achieving her livestream at just sixteen, as part of the final five gymnastics team, at the Rio Games and everything that's come after is found that her voice is every bit as strong as she is, and she's not afraid to use it to speak up for herself, and others listen to change in the game on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcast. It's the winter of nineteen sixteen in Tulsa Oklahoma and the morning is cold and grey. John. Paul Getty is waiting in the lobby of the Tulsa Hotel. He's only twenty three, but he's been a regular here for more than a year. Today the place is full of drillers, wildcatters and wannabe tycoons slinging back bootleg whiskey. The air is clouded with cigar smoke as they trade wild gossip about the oil Biz. This is the official oil capital of the world sounds like the wild west. It almost is fifteen years earlier. It was still native American territory when j Peas Dad, George hit it big with his very first. Well George never would have been caught dead in this lobby though he's a totally lawyer who is on a Tulsa business trip. When he saw an opportunity now it's his sons turn. JP has never been much for work. He's insanely smart, but his parents whole to bed early to rise life isn't his style. And he busted out as soon as he could. After bumming around Europe for a year on his dad's dime, he was called home and given an ultimatum. Get serious or you're on your own. No more money, but George says it nicer than that. Because JP is headstrong and his parents don't want to lose him, he says give it a year. If it doesn't work, you can do whatever you want. That was more than a year ago and so far. JP has nothing to show for it, but dust covered shoes and a bar tab at the Tulsa Hotel. The reality that everybody's looking for the same thing, a cheap plot of land over an untapped reservoir of oil. They can turn into bags of money. Yeah, isn't that what we all want? J.? P. Knows he can pack up and go according to the deal, but now he doesn't want to He's got the bug like everyone else, and he can't stomach failure. That's when he hears a rumor about a plot of land on the outskirts of town, and it's up for grabs. The next morning. JP, in his third hand model, T to check it out. He sets one foot on the land and feel something like a chemical reaction in his veins. This is the plot he's been looking for, so he buys it as their oil though give it a minute. It's a few weeks later on February third. The drill is in place. JP's well is about to reveal its secrets black, gold or useless. What sand? He waits at the train station for one of his crew members to come in from the fields to tell him he paces up and down the platform. The suspense is killing me finally. The train rolls into the station. JP spots. Is Oilman getting out of the last car? He's smiling. We brought in your well this afternoon Sir it's making thirty barrels thirty barrels. A day JP is crushed. That's nothing it's chump. Change. The oil man, who still grinning like an idiot, reaches out to shake GP's hand and says Yes sir. It was making thirty barrels and our when I left holy shit an hour. At the, Jackpot Oh yeah, at that moment. He knows there's only one future for him. He's going to be an oil baron. A few months later he's officially a millionaire, and it all goes straight to his twenty three year old head. He's like that's I never have to work again. A million bucks was a shit. Ton of money back then still is I've got like thirty three dollars on my savings account. Oh, so double what I had. Three weeks later JP's back in Los Angeles at the Family Mansion with his parents when he gives them the big news, he's going to retire. His father loses his shit. Have you lost your mind? Did he really say that will know? He's very religious, never swears he actually used the word indolent. Lazy, and then he dropped some words of wisdom on his son. Your wealth represents a better life for a great many people besides yourself, the hell does that mean it means you have a responsibility to share. The Wealth George gave to his church into the poor and spent very little on fancy things. In fact, he was a millionaire many times over, but he only had thirty thousand dollars in his bank account. How so does he take stats advice now? He's like I'm good. Let's say. He builds an elaborate bachelor quarters in a wing of the Family Mansion. Why do his parents let him? Let's just say they were very indulgent. They lost their first trial to typhoid when she was nine and they don't WanNa lose him. He gets away with a lot. He drinks all night. He throws parties and sleeps till noon, and he has sex with dozens of women has parents must be thrilled? Yeah, they're pretty horrified. They don't drink. Don't smoke or go to the theater. Their idea fun is Reading Bible verses by the fire, having a swinging playboy living downstairs. WHO happens to be their son is killing them. Then in one thousand, nine hundred seventeen JP gets himself into a real jam. A young woman sues him for paternity and accuses him of rape. Rape. She gives birth to the child ten months after she filed the lawsuit. JP wants to fight. It but Georgia insists. He gave her some money, so he does to say. Georgia's pissed is an understatement. It's just more evidence of how morally bankrupt his son is. So now they kick them out of the house snow, but it kind of knocks the wind out of sales after his short two year retirement. He tells his dad. He's ready to go back to work for George. This is progress like maybe he's growing up now. I'm pleased you've decided to Enger Post, adolescent hibernation tells them if only that were true. It's October nineteen. Three and J P is out on the town with his vivacious eighteen year old silent film star girlfriend. A few too many Martinis and the next thing they know it's morning, and they're driving back from Ventura with rings on their fingers in other words a typical Friday night for us. The first time he introduces her to his parents. It's as his wife. This does not go over well, but then a child comes, and they name him George and it's one big happy family. Just kidding. JP is not interested in being a father or settling down. He never even lives in the same house with them. Eventually, wife number one files for divorce number one. Wife number two. He meets in Mexico when he's buying oil leases. Out with two sisters named a Lean Baleen. Their parents must be fun at parties. One balmy morning in June, J. P. Grabs Alien. They sneak off and get hitched. He's thirty three and she's seventeen has not creepy at all. Yeah, even JP realizes he's screwed up. He in a lean agree to end it and everyone is sworn to secrecy, but his father somehow hears about it and again crushing disappointment. He tried to teach him work ethic and morals. He thinks how JP have been so stupid and anything well. He's kind of always been this stupid I mean. How can you trust someone with his business? Who so reckless with his life? So George meets with his lawyer and make some changes to his will. Jane P. must have been pissed. Yeah, except George doesn't tell him or his wife for that matter, she calls Jp more than George does. When they lost their daughter, she pretty much shut all of her feelings down shape. He never got any physical affection from her or from George. If she got too close, she might lose him too, so I think JP never really learned how to bond I don't think you know coddling means. Okay well in her own way, she coddles okay. She lets him get away with everything. I think they're afraid. If they put their foot down, he'll leave and they'll never see him again. So JP gets married a third time. They don't even blink. She doesn't last either, but they do have a sudden Ronald J. P. hardly ever sees him or his wife. Then in April of Nineteen Thirty J. P. as in Switzerland, when he gets word that his father just had a stroke, he rushes back to Los Angeles to see his dad one last time before he dies, he looked up to his dad and he knows he disappointed him a lot over the years. He's for real heartbroken. And then they read. The Will Georgia estate is valued at more than fifteen mill. He leaves some money for charity, a better life for a great many people, yeah, and only a small amount for his son, half a million dollars. That's tiny, but J. is okay with that. He wants the business. That's where the future is. Then the lawyer gets to the end of the will. Georgia's leaving the bulk of his estate and control of his company to his wife. JP thinks it's a mistake. His Dad promised he'd inherit the company. Instead. It's going to his mother Sarah Who's seventy eight years old and has never spent one day in the oil business. Maybe he should just retire again. He's had a good run. Ono Now. He's pissed Oh and hurt if his father doesn't think he can run a company Hill just have to prove him wrong. He tells himself. He's GonNa. Make more money than his father ever could have dreamed of, and then he gets busy. The country is in the middle of the Great Depression every day. Another big company is going under. CEOS are literally jumping out of windows. J. Sees it as an opportunity by them out for a rock bottom price. He tells his mom now is the time to expand, but mom's not hearing it. She starting to see what her husband Sean their son. He's two impulsive. He's cutthroat. They fight and it's ugly J.. P. Goes to Europe to blow off steam and. Stop me if you've heard this before. He gets married again. wife Number Four for those of you keeping score at home. This is juniors. Mom Paul Junior father of little Paul the kidnap victim. Right about this time. Though JP mother summoned him back to La. She says she wants to talk. Its December nineteen thirty-three J. P.. is into his old house. He makes his way to the sitting room where a rose t set has been laid out. His mother tells him to sit. She's got something to say. Her body is failing. She can hardly move because of her rheumatism, and then she takes a breath and says let's get wasted close. She says it's time for me to step aside, so she's throwing in the towel I mean she doesn't really have a choice, but before he can say Merry Christmas the other shoe drops. There's a catch as part of her agreement. Sarah insists trust drawn up for her future grandchildren. She doesn't trust JP to give money to them on his own. She finally sees what her husband saw. JP is out for one person himself. This will turn out to be a pivotal moment in the life and bank account of every that will ever be born, but JP isn't thinking that far ahead. He's finally getting what he wants. Control, so his answer is. Let's go wasted hell. Yes, he's got big plans. He's going to expand getty oil into the kind of empire. His father never dreamed of now. Let me ask you this. Brooke. When you think oil does any place come to mind I mean I think the Middle East Bingo, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are slowly selling off their oil rights to Westerners and in nineteen forty JP gets in on the action and closes the deal that nets him twenty five hundred barrels a day. That's how he goes from rich to disgustingly rich and becomes a billionaire. He's a risk taker. And he's shrewd, and he never shows weakness not with his wives or his kids. His longest emotional bond is with his dogs in his lion. The original tiger came. As. J. P. gets older. He gets richer and weirder. He comes to seriously believe he's the reincarnation of the emperor. Hadrian, who was this baller military guy from ancient? Rome built a lot of cool shit and was known for his way with the ladies. Hadrian's Wall Oh. Someone paid attention in tenth, Grade History Yup definitely. Can Tell me more about it. Yes, so it was made of bricks. Wow. You must have based at. JP actually told people being rich and powerful was his destiny and the way he sees it. He did it all in his own now he's eighty and no one is going to tell him what to do. Not His kids, not his ex wives, and definitely not some lowlife kidnappers. Who Buddy we've got a new advertiser and I couldn't be more excited. Yes, we do. GRUB hub grub hub helps you enjoy your favorite restaurants with new perks and exclusive reward. Wait hold on. Did you just say perks? Yeah? I did so when you use grab hub. You've got a ten dollar perk every time you order from select restaurants yet, and we should mention that it's so easy to find food. You crave an order through the GRUB APP. You just search by cuisine, restaurant, name or menu item to explore restaurants. The delivered near you another perk. You can stay safe and support the restaurants. Restaurants you love with curbside pickup and contact free delivery GRUB. I can't tell you how much I appreciate contact free delivery right now definitely, but make sure you're still tipping your delivery. People folks Saddam, on the APP today to get ten dollars off your order of thirty dollars or more every day from participating restaurants breakfast lunch dinner. The dozen doughnuts I ordered this Sunday. Just because I felt like it. Whatever you're craving, that's ten dollars off your order of thirty dollars or more every day from participating restaurants download the GRUB APP today and get ten dollars off your order of thirty dollars or more. Let's talk about Paul Getty the crazy ordeal. He's been through since the night. He was capped two weeks ago. He was just a boozed up sixteen year old kid on his way home. Chill with his girl. Now. His name is in the headlines all over the world, but he doesn't know any of that. After the four masked men with guns, throw him into a car and chloroform him. They lay him face down on the back seat. They're heading south to a region called collaborative. It's basically the no man's land of Italy rugged mostly rural. Of course he has no idea that yet, because he's blindfolded and out cold when he comes to, he knows nothing except he has a headache, and he's thirsty, so he asked for water. Instead the cadavers give him whisky which he gulps down out of desperation. Then he here's a gruff voice. If you want something, ask for it if I answer is yes, you're here one club. If the answer's No, you'll hear to clubs. Remember this because no one will speak to you again. I. Don't know I was just going to say. I'm so glad accents are back. Paul is actually kind of relieved by the kidnappers instructions. He figures if they don't want him to hear their voices. It means there's a chance they'll let him live. When the car finally stops like five hours later, they lift him up and drag him outside. where he smells fresh mountain air, it must have been a relief to at least get outside, not really because then he thinks they're going to throw me off a cliff. Who Know, but they don't instead they take him inside a small hut, untie his hands and build a fire. Then they feed him some Cognac and Pasta, okay. When does the bad stuff happened during this kidnapping? While they keep the blindfold on the whole time. They tape it to his face, so it won't accidentally fall off over the next few days. They give him one meal a day a lot of coffee and as much as he can drink. I'm super dehydrated just thinking about that Combo same. Maybe they just wanted to keep him drunk and disoriented, which works because he loses track of time a couple of days later or maybe a week they bundle him into the car again another long drive, and then they get out and lead him through a steep incline, or he can hear the sound of flowing water like he's near a stream. They make him bend down and drink then they rip off his blindfold. Of course, he's scared shitless. Okay this thing does not make sense to me when you're scared, you shit. How can you be scared? Shitless your shit so much that there's no shit. This yeah, okay! Wow, yeah, and then. And, then Paul hears a voice behind him. It says don't hurt him well, that's hopeful. All the men are wearing grey woollen masks. He can only see their is and a lot of guns. All of them are packing. Then one of them says you'll going to be here for a while, so don't do anything done. That's actually verbatim. What I said to my husband and our wedding vows. Oh, I remember I was there, yeah. They put him in another hut and chain to a dirty caught by his ankles. He tries to get some sleep, but he's still groggy and the liquor they keep giving him makes him nauseous. And then they bring him some paper and envelopes and tell him to write. They dictate the words, and that's when he finally figures out what's going on. He's been kidnapped for ransom. They want money no problem right. He's the grandson of the richest man in the world. He probably thinks if he can hold on and wait. The calvary will come Ono. He has no idea GRANDPA isn't sending the cavalry. NOPE, this is turning into a Greek tragedy. Is Anybody coming for him well? Gill hasn't given up a few days after her press conference where she tells whomever's listening that the family is ready to negotiate. Gets a second call from the kidnappers who lay out their demands. They want three hundred million lire, which is about half a million US dollars. Gale is relieved. It's a good sign. Her boy is still alive, and no fingers are coming in the mail, but it doesn't change the fact that guilt doesn't have the money. JP still isn't taking her calls and her ex is drinking and doing drugs again, so there's no help their the press. Don't even believe the whole is real neither do the police. She's clearly in over her head, so she tells them to talk to. Her lawyer enter. Giovanni Ikea Vanni okay. First of all cool name. Yeah, second not that I've ever been in a ransom situation. Really Right, but bringing in a lawyer makes it sound like they're embroiled in polite rich person. Legal this view well, it's the seventies. Maybe things were looser back ninety or maybe with all the kidnappings in Italy. It's just par for the course, but the kidnappers are like okay. Give his number. Giovanni Akhavan is actually a pretty slick guy and he's good at his job. He loves talking to the press, but he never gives them anything just like the layers in America. Yeah, and he also wears expensive suits in his curly hair. Is Razor cut okay? Why does everyone in this story have curly hair I'm jealous. Not Jp though he's got more of a comb over, but still a surprising amount of hair for a man his age. Anyway on July Twenty Third Giovanni sitting at his desk and he gets a call. It's a guy with a big booming voice. Who says this is a kidnapping was serious. Do as you're told and prepare ransom I love how they have to keep trying to convince everyone. The real kidnapper like just make sure you save kidnappers. Next time you call I know. Most of the papers are still calling them kidnappers in quotes like it some sort. Sort of wink and nod joke two days after the call Giovanni gets a letter, the kidnappers have decided to up the ransom amount now they want the equivalent seventeen million dollars, and they wanted in small bills or else by by Paul, you, you imagine how long it would take to count that many small bills right? It's the highest amount of ransom. Any Italian kidnapper has ever demanded. How and it's the beginning of this totally weird. Weird Austin powers type of negotiation. They tell Giovanni to Cali press conference and let them know they've agreed. But instead the lawyer tells reporters. They should ask for less. It's too much a few days later. The kidnappers calls again and asks well. How much they Giovanni, says the most money can numbers has gotten. Here was half a million dollars, and then they say the job. We've spent that much on expenses, and then there's a series of. Of phone calls back and forth haggling over the ransom amount like a flea market bargaining over vintage lamp or something. If the police were suspicious before they're now convinced, the kidnapping is a hoax, one of the police ios quoted as saying what kind of kidnappers can't make up their minds about money. Even Giovanni is starting to have doubts. It is kind of nuts. You can't make this shit up, but that's when Gail gets the call. It's been more than two weeks since Paul went missing inside gale's apartment. She feels like she's been taken hostage to. She can't leave without being mobbed by reporters. She sits at a marble table, sipping her Third Cup of Espresso. She hasn't slept in days Sam. Her nerves must be shut to hell. At this point the kidnappers told Giovanni. They would call back again with the final offer, but it's been a whole week nothing every day that passes. She's convinced. Something awful has happened to her son. When the phone rings, she jumps snatching it in the middle of the I ring. The man on the other side identifies himself as Chin Quanta. He says she can call him fifty. He says he's in charge. The Guy who's going to tell her how to get her son back. He's direct but polite, and that gives hope. He seems to be treating her with respect very Italian chick clanton, Gail want the same thing for someone to pay the ransom so Paul can come home. She repeats what she said the first day. She doesn't have the money. And then quantum starts to get mad. Who's the so called grandfather? He shouts, how can leave his own flesh and blood and apply that son is in. Here is the richest man in the world, and he refuses to pay for his grandson safety. You take me for a fool. What you say is not possible. Gale has to agree. I mean, but what can she do nothing? Gail may want her son home, but old men. Gatty just wants the whole thing to go away. The kidnapping has become an international news story, and so has he and he hates more than anything else spending money on other people well more than that. He despises any kind of publicity and the more attention. He gets the more paranoid he becomes for years. He's been. been afraid someone might try to kidnap him. In fact, he's outfitted. The entire getty estate was surveillance tech I'm we're talking locks on all the doors ours on all five hundred windows of the mansion alarms behind every painting and those giant German shepherds, if you're hungry for a PB and J. in the middle of the night, you're going to have to get past twelve sets of snarling teeth to get it. Got, I'll just eat the potpourri on the bedside table, scrumptious JP barely leaves the estate and when he does, he has these armed guards who follow him every time. He exits the grounds, but at least a precedent pay him notice now all anyone talks about is how he won't pay the ransom for his hippie grandson and he needs it to stop you know he could, and I'm just going out on a limb here he could pay the ransom. Novel idea I know, but no way. He's never come out on the wrong side of a deal. He needs some way to get the upper hand. Maybe even someone someone on the ground in Rome, someone he can trust someone who can help him. Sweep it all away. The man he sends his Fletcher Chase Chase was his head of security for his oilfields in the Middle East and he's won the old man's trust. He's a six foot, four x CIA agent. He's got bright. Blue is a job and lots of swagger. I need swagger lessons. We're not sure exactly when chase arrives in Rome. The books have different dates, but it's somewhere around mid to late July, I think and when he gets off the plane, he's actually wearing a trenchcoat total spike gear total spy when reporters spot him going to Gilles House. They describe him as a mysterious American. Gail is relieved finally someone to save the day. and. Then he hits on her I feel like I'm in the wrong movie, but she nipped in the bud. The truth is she's more than happy to let him handle the negotiations with Tim Quanta and to deal directly with the police. He has a ton of experience. It's all going to be on his broad. Shoulders go you big, strong man. There's only one problem. He has tiny shoulders. Can't speak. Italian which is kind of crucial, because that's all the kidnappers speak once in Quanta calls again chase jumps on the call with all the competence of an ex CIA operative, but when he starts speaking in broken Spanish. Gail is mortified at first in Quanta doesn't get it then. He gets really pissed I the bartering lawyer now a Spanish. Speaking dilettante like this. It can only mean one thing. This nutty family is just refusing to take the kidnapping seriously. Gail grabbed the phone from chase to try and save the situation. Never send the CIA to a woman's job pre. is desperate for this to not go any further south. She begs Quanta just hang on I'll talk to the family. I'll figure something out I. Promise. Just don't hurt my boy. But Chin Quanta isn't listening. He's already hung up and Gail doesn't know the next call she gets will do that. Her boy is dead. From wondering this is episode one of four of the kidnapping of Paul Getty. If you like our show, please give us a five star rating and review and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcasts. spotify the wondering APP or wherever you're listening right now, join. US In the wonder apt to listen Ad Free, the episode notes you'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them another way you can support. The show is by filling out a small survey at one dot com slash survey. We use many sources when researching our stories like Vanity Fair, the, New, York, times and rolling stone, but we especially recommend three. Three books all the money in the world by John Pearson the House of Getty by Russell Miller, and the great getty by Robert Lender I'm a Risha, skidmore Williams, and I'm Brooks. Different Elizabeth Cozinne this episode. Our editor is Loredana Helluva. Kayla is our associate producer. Sound design by James Morgan are executive. Producers Are Stephanie John's Marshal Louis and her non Lopez for wondering. 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Martinos Paul kidnapping Oldman getty Getty Gail Harris JP Rome reporter Bongino Brooke John Paul Getty Italy Getty Museum gale Middle East Paul Screams George Europe US Johns
The Gettys | The Drop  | 4

Even the Rich

45:20 min | 2 months ago

The Gettys | The Drop | 4

"HEADS UP I can neither confirm nor deny but we may use a swear word or two, or maybe we won't know we will. Okay Brooke, so it's December seventh, nineteen, seventy-three Rome is getting ready for Christmas. Workers are hanging lights on the streets. Chestnuts are roasting on open fires, and it's cold so cold. The some of the fountains in the Piazza's are freezing up. Paul Getty has been missing for almost five full months, but for the first time. There's real hope that he's going to be coming home. His Grandfather J Paul Getty Aka. The richest man in the world finally agreed to pony up three point two million bucks for his ransom. The kidnappers have signed off. For once everyone seems to be on the same page. This is harder than getting the cast a sex in the city in the same room. Seriously Seven, thirty a M Fletcher Chase stands inside the boardroom, the main branch of Rome's Bunka, commercially counting out small bills JP. Getty has given him sole authority to oversee the entire operation, and if the last few months have proven anything to him, it's if you want something done right. You do it yourself. And he trusts no one not the bank tellers, not the kidnappers not even gale. All knows is that there's going to be a drop. The only people who know the full details are a detective. He Trust on the force and one outsider a guy. He's handpicked to act as a hired gun on the ride. When chases done counting the money, bank, employees, photograph and catalog all the bills and let me tell you. It's a lot of bills seventeen hundred million lire to be exact in small denominations. After the money is counted chasing the hired gun. Load the bags into the back of a rented Fiat chases. What's technically called the bag? Man, the guy who's going to make the ransom drop give the money to the kidnappers. And then they let the kid leave with his life, but here's the odd part. Normally there'd be an exchange. Rate is your three mill. Mill now give me the kid except the kidnappers don't want to do it that way. They want chase to give them the money. Then they're going to go off somewhere. Secret encountered then when that sorted out, go call the family and let them know where they're going to drop Paul okay now I'm not a spy, nor do I play one on TV yet. Kind of cockamamie ideas that Oh. Hey, here's three mill. Just take your time getting back to us. No biggie. Yeah, seriously I. Don't know why they agree to the deal. Believe me. I looked. All I can figure is that the kidnappers have the upper hand I mean? They sliced off Paul's ear and they said if they don't get the money, they'll be more parts. Coming in the mail, so chases agreed to play by the kidnappers rules. Chase gets behind the wheel and checks. His rear view mirror scans permettre for anyone suspicious and pulls out from the curb. He's got very specific instructions. He used to drive to a secret location nearly six hours away in the southern region of Italy, he must drive exactly fifty miles per hour and go through specific toll booth gates. At specific times, everything has been planned by the kidnappers and timed to the second somewhere around the two hundred eighty six mile mark oversee signal. Someone will throw gravel on his windshield. Showed if he's laid or misses a turn, it could ruin the entire operation and risk Paul's life. There's only one problem. Weather predictions are for record snowfall, which means traffic jams and icy mountain roads. At, exactly nine am chase passes through the first gate and collects his ticket. Great all according to plan. Except it turns out the weather. Predictions were right. It's the worst winter storm in fifty years as he drives, Snow begins to cover the road making slick ice under his wheels, a thick white fog obscures his vision and eventually slows them to a crawl. He knows he's missing the markers, but he hopes that kidnappers will take the weather into account. When he finally reaches mile to eighty six. He slows down in squint S-. Do you see anything? He asked his hired gun. The guy just shakes his head nothing. Chase Chuck's instructions circles back and passes through again still nothing did they miss the drop or the kidnappers to? Eventually he gives up in crawls home. When he gets back to Rome. It's one am. A trip that would have normally taken ten hours took him sixteen. Now all he can think about is the three million dollars in his trunk and what the kidnappers are thinking. Because, there's a darker scenario swirling through his mind. Maybe, Paul is already paying the consequences. Even the richest partnering with Vincenzo. Watches and we could not be more excited. You know usually finding accessories that are stylish, bold and built to last can cost a pretty penny. 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Venturo watches are beautiful statement pieces that will last, plus they offer free shipping thirty day returns, and they guarantee your watch for two years exclusively for our listeners Venturo is offering an extra twenty percent off their already affordable watches go to Ventura, watches dot com. backslash rich, and the code rich will be auto applied at checkout. It's that easy. That's V., I n.. C. E. R. O. Watches Dot, com backslash, rich for an extra twenty percents off. From wondering, I'm Arista skidmore. Williams and I'm different and this is even the rich. In Our last episode, the kidnappers. Holding Paul Getty delivered and ultimatum. Hey up or else. When the money didn't come the turned out to be cutting off, Paul Gatti's right ear. The gruesome packages delivered to Rome's biggest newspaper to show the kidnappers meant business finally after five long months. The richest man in the world agrees to pay. This is episode for the drop. Shot! Its nearly one am in. Rome and gals been pacing the floor for hours waiting to hear from chase. All she knows is, he's going to make the drop now at sixteen hours later, and she still hasn't heard a word. When she picks up the phone, she here's the voice of the detective chases guy. He tells her chases back and he still has the money. The drop didn't happen. Something went wrong. Of course Gill's thoughts immediately go to Paul if the drop didn't happen. Will the kidnappers take it out on son and get this? No one even bothered to tell her that. JP had agreed to pay the ransom wait. The family didn't tell her nope. She had to read it in the paper. Even her attorney knew about it before she did so this whole thing with not knowing any details about the. The drop is making her crazy. So when chase calls and he does, call around two AM. She's mad as a killer Hornet my God. Why didn't you tell me before chase? WHO's usually cool as a cucumber loses it? That's what a sixteen hour drive storm will do to you. He says I didn't tell you because I. don't trust you. You're the fault of everything that's gone wrong in this whole kidnapping. And, then he adds. Women shouldn't get involved in things like this. WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA okay coming from the guy who just fucked up his only job I'm not sure it's time to start throwing sexist insults around then he says. Get this now I know what kind of women you are. If your son Dies you're going to blame me, you're nothing but trouble. You can't handle the truth. Isn't that a line from a few good men? Okay? Maybe he didn't say that part. I got a little carried away. The point is they're both mad. As hell and someone's got to give because they don't have anyone else. It's finally gale. Who Pulls it together? She takes a deep breath and says you've had a long day. I've had a long day. Maybe there were mistakes made. We are right at the end. What's not blow it by fighting chase settles down to, and he's like okay. He tells her he'll keep her in the loop now. They just have to hope the kidnappers give them a second chance. At Eleven PM one day after the botched drop, Gil gets another call Chin Quanta. It is Chin Quanta the middlemen and her only connection to the kidnappers and he's pissed. He thinks they've been played now. Gale has some serious damage control to do ever notice how Gail spends most of her time talking chase in Quanta off the ledge. Like who can actually handle this here seriously. She tells him chase. was there the snowstorm made him late? In Quanta doesn't buy it. He wants to talk to chase when chase gets on the phone Chin Quanta accuses him of lying, but chase is not having it. He Says I. was there nobody through the gravel. You weren't there shouldn't Quanta says the through the gravel. Who didn't show up? Okay. Why is no one commenting on how stupid this plan was in the first place. Like why are they throwing gravel? Willy Nilly Cars I. Know It's packed. Gravel is already flying around when cars on the road anyway. Chin Quanta insists on a play by play. What were the landmarks chase past? What time did he reach Tollbooth One? What about Tobu Five? What towns did he pass? What was the weather? How slick were the roads? And finally he says I'm not sure I believe you I'll have to run it by the others and call you back. When he calls back, he sounds calm. He says it was a bad night, wasn't it and chases like think then gives chase the verdict. We believe you. But now chases insure. He believes them. Maybe they never showed up. Maybe this was just some kind of dry run or test and chase hates tests, especially a test with a kid on the line and three million dollars in the trunk, so when they begin talking about a new plan it clear the kidnappers aren't at the right place at the appointed time. He's taken the money and he's gone. You don't mess with Fletcher, Chase Damn Straight. His exact words are to hell with you. Four days leader chases speeding south his fiat for the second attempt. The three sacks of money are in the trunk. The hired gun is back to sitting in the passenger seat, taking notes on any suspicious cars that might be following behind. So far the weather is cooperating no snow or rain and chase. He surprisingly relaxed. He runs his playbook through his head and lights up a pipe. Wait Chase smokes a pipe. I was picturing him with like a Virginia Slim between his fingers. Is for like a poetry professor from Maine who owns many leather bound books. Yeah, definitely not chase, but he does use words like tootling. That's how he describes what they're doing. A speed down a series of narrow country roads to the mountainous region near Calabria, and then when he rounds a corner around Mile Marker, two eighty six at the appointed time. That sounded more like fingernails on chalkboard. Okay, well, it's rocks. Chase slows down and that's when he sees movement through some trees. He pulls over and stops. Finally a bowlegged guy, waving a gun emerges through the brush and walks up to the car. He has a scarf face chase calmly shuts off the engine and steps out with his pipes, still clutched between his teeth. The man doesn't like this at all. He wants them to stay inside. He starts screaming for him to back the BA- Jabar's up our imagine a thug with a gun using the word, but Jabar's for really anyone anyone. Yeah, the important point here is that chase holds his ground. He calmly says I'm going to give you the money. Relax and stop waving the gun already but the. The bowlegged guide doesn't feel like relaxing. He keeps dancing around and yelling and waving the gun, and then as cool as you please chased, takes his pipe out of his mouth and blows a big cloud of smoke in the guy's face. Talk about smoke and mirrors. It works though the guy. Lowers has gone, but then a few other armed dudes come charging out yelling in Italian. Chase motions them to the back of the car and pops the trunk. Inside are the three bags filled with cash. One of the kidnappers takes a peek in one, and the nods that's chases signal to heave them out and drop them by the side of the road and pull away slowly, and just like that. The drop is done now. It's yet another waiting game. The sooner that kidnappers confirm the money is all there the sooner Paul can be released. One day later on December thirteenth Gal sits in front of the phone, worming her hands with a cup of Cappuccino. She's waiting for the call. CIMH QANTAS VOICES HURRIED COM. He says it's over you better. Get in the car. Wash away at one thirty this morning. We'll be releasing Paul. Gale looks at the clock. It's eleven thirty PM. He gives her the location. It's three hours south of Rome and she's only got to. Gail looks out the window. It's sleeting. She says it's going to take me a long time to get there. The weather's horrible. She says I don't even think Paul has a coped. Don't worry about it. We'll give him blankets. He'll wait. That he asks. Can I tell them you're coming. If her answer would be let me check my schedule. I think I have a hair appointment with all Asandra at midnight. Could we make it like three am right? I mean of cour- scale is coming. There's a moment of silence before chin. Qantas speaks again. Don't come with the police and don't talk no matter where you are in the world. If you turn us in, we'll get you all of you. Please hurry. It's called. It's the last time they'll ever speak. Is it weird that I'm Kinda sad about that. Yes. As soon as she hangs up, Gail calls the police. Of course. They're dying to look like they've actually done. Something given how they've pretty much done nothing since this whole thing started so the officer is like great. We'll take it from here, but Gail says screw that. There's no freaking way. She's about to sit this one out. It was bad enough the first time, so she hops on the phone to chase and they hatch out a plan. The two of them and one cop will drive together. A second police car will follow them at a discreet distance. It's go time. It's the dead of night. A wet snow is falling over the countryside somewhere in the hills of collaborate. A couple of scrappy tents perched near steep cliff hall is inside one, lying on a damp Kat and shivering. The tent flaps open, and two of his kidnappers abruptly walk in one of them tosses him some clothes, a pair of flannel pants, a white shirt and sweater and a pair of sneakers. They tell him to get dressed. He needs look good for his mama because he's going home. I love how Italians pay attention to fashion, even in the most trying circumstances seriously. Paul SORTA stunned I mean a few days ago. The kidnappers told him his family finally paid the ransom, but then nothing happened now he's climbing into these new clothes and trying to squeeze his feet into some sneakers that don't fit. He still can't let himself believe they're letting him go. When they push him outside. It's bitterly cold. They tell him to hurry up. Then they can walk in circles and spin him around and put him in a different direction. Finally they put him in the backseat of a car. He stares out into the black night, and as the car makes its way down mountainous road, he thinks. Whatever happens at least it will finally be over. As, he listens to the taking of the windshield wiper blades. He fades off to sleep the deepest sleep. He's had in months. Oh, he's a snug as bugging rug. People are still saying that right. Yes, they read. There are pe- magazines. When Paul Wakes up? It feels like hours have gone by. They're still driving. It looks like they're sticking to side roads doubling back and making U-TURNS. Then they stop, and the kidnapper motions him to get in another car. They switch out drivers and the Guy Riding. Shotgun and they drive some more, but the guy in this passenger seat isn't so nice. He's paranoid. He turns to the driver and says maybe we shouldn't let him off. Talk. I promise you in six months. He'll talk. Paul's heart starts to race a man. WHAT IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA? Let him go. The car comes to a stop on a side road. The two men opened the door and tell Paul to start walking. I up a snowy hill then across a frozen field until they come to a fence also nervously. Don't worry after guys. I won't say anything. I won't incriminate you. then. They tell him to turn, so his back is to the road. Then they handle a couple of blankets and a pack of cigarettes and say don't turn around for ten minutes will know if you do. We have someone watching. They both start to walk away. Then one of them stops. And Brooke is leaving the building now. He takes off his coat and hands it to Paul a gesture of kindness. This is a surprising turn, not really then they tie a mask over his face and say your mother will be here in a few hours. And then they're gone. Paul waits a moment and then stands up. He rips the mask off and he starts to run. We get support from threat up I. Don't know about you, but thread up saving me a lot of money right now. Same Threat Up is the world's largest online thrift store with up to ninety percent off estimated retail. You get the incredible deals of thrifty with the convenience of online shopping from all of your favorite brands so I can be kind to my wallet without compromising my style, you can score Nike for only six dollars theory, starting at twenty dollars made welfare, ten dollars and more all for a fraction of the price. Lots of items even have their tags still on. Yeah, I was. I'm always wary about getting stuff used and everything that I've gotten from thread up has been an. An amazing condition, this New, York and company I have it's. It's like it was brand new I gotTa Ralph Lauren Dress that I. Absolutely love for like a hundred dollars off the price and so much of my stuff still had tags on it. It was amazing. Yeah, sustainable, stylish, an totally affordable. You'll look and feel good with right up and for listeners of our show. Here's an exclusive offer just for you get an extra thirty percent off your first order at threat up dot com slash rich. That's T.. H. R. E.. D. UP DOT com slash rich for thirty percent off your first order one more time. That's threat up. Comedy slashed rich for an extra thirty percent off today terms apply. Paul was supposed to wait ten minutes, but instead he took off running as soon as the kidnappers got back in the car. He's like people in horror movies who run upstairs while like? He's not really thinking straight. He just wants to get as far away from the kidnappers as possible. He stumbles down the hill through the snow. He's running so fast. He even loses his shoes, but he doesn't care. It starts to rain really hard, but he still runs and makes it to a gas station somewhere off the highway. Paul goes inside to the snack shop and asked to use the phone, but the people there just stare at him. To them, he's just some crazy looking kid with dirty bandage half hanging from where an Erie's to be so they're like we're just gonNA. Pretend you're not here. So Paul heads back to the road where he starts trying to flag down cars by now it's pouring, but still no one will stop for him. Paul's thinking. What if he freezes to death before his mother? Even find him if his mother's even coming I mean, how will she even know where to look? He's completely discombobulated and turned around. Finally he reaches that abandoned bus stop. Assigned by the road says Lana grow. A small truck rumbles in his direction and Paul runs into the middle of the street and starts waving his arms. The driver's stops Paul's through the pouring rain I'm Paul, Getty. The driver says you are, aren't you? Paul thanks finally I'm saved. And then the guy drives off. By now it's around four am gail chase and the Italian cop had been in a car for almost three hours racing south from Rome to try and find Paul. When they arrive at the spot, the kidnapper said they left Paul Gill practically tumbles out of the car headfirst. She stands on the side of the road looks around. And, then she whistles. And picturing that mom, whistling and almost famous close, they had some kind of signature whistle, but of course Paul doesn't answer because he's long gone. She and chase start calling his name still nothing, but at least they're not searching alone. They've got the COP came with them and the other cops following stop to. Chase senses gals panic, and he takes out his pipe and he's like. Let's just think about this a minute. If you a young boy and you were held captive for five months. Would you sit on a hill? Because they said to wait for your mother, I wouldn't I'd get out as soon as I could. And? That's one of the cops comes running down the hill. He's holding up the blindfold and the blankets that kidnappers gave Paul. Now. They know he was here and that chase is probably right. I swear taking up pipe. Smoking is making him smarter by the minute. Simply don't know which way he went. The group decides to Split Up. The COPS had north and chasing Gail had south, but it feels like they're looking for a needle in a haystack. It's almost on the small town of logging agro. A few miles from where Paul was dropped off. At the local police station Captain Martinez at least go is rummaging through a closet filled with his men's spare shoes. Pop Quiz. Does this name ring a bell? How can I forget a man? After my own heart, Elise go is a serial napper who led the unsuccessful rate on the cabin where Paul was supposedly being held Ding Ding Ding. Why is he through his shoe collection? Because he's got a Shula's Paul Getty sitting in his office right now. OMG! Are. Wondering how the hell all ends up in a lease goes police station, while as it turns out hours ago at least was notified by the police in Rome that the getty boy would soon be released and to be on the lookout, so he took out his brand new Blue Alf over Mayo Sedan, and he drove it up and down the highway, searching for Paul, but there is nothing but fog and snow, so he went home to bed I. often take a nap before going to bed. At least go was nodding off when he got a call that a boy matching Paul Getty's description had been spotted by a truck driver. He grabbed his clothes got back into his brand new Alpha and drove into town Bingo he sees a lone figure standing in the road and soaked to the skin. It's Paul, at least go pulls over and tells Paul Decline men. It's been five months and five days since he was snatched off the streets in Rome. Finally, he's safe. On the ride to the station capitalise goes seizes his chance. No one has talked to the grandson of the richest men in the world for more than five months. He's not about to let that moment. Pass and guess what we have a record of the conversation, and I have it printed out low wannabe Paul. Okay I'll go. You know. Nobody thought that you were kidnapped until just now. Just. Hold on a second. I have to get into character. Out. That's what makes me so sad. Do you know who paid? No it was your grandfather Oh. Let's all right. They'll take it out of my inheritance. Wow, that's cynical for a sixteen year old. Yeah, but he's been a getty his whole life. Back at the station Elise go sits pollen his office and calls the local doctor at least goes. Wife Cooks polly giant plate of Spaghetti and they find him some dry clothes, but no shoes. His men Popeye, and take pictures with the Golden Hippy, and when the word seeps out, as it always does in Italy a throng of reporters and television crew gather outside for a statement. At least go is the king of the world right now. One hour later, Gallon chased. pull up at the police barracks. They push past the reporters outside the building. Everyone is yelling. They all want to quote or picture inside. The place is packed to. A policeman leads gail up the. Marble. Staircase police goes, office. And, then she waits. UNPOLISHED finally escorted out. Gail is shocked. pollock's thin and tired. There's dirty bandage on the side of his head. They're surrounded by people, but it's like everyone fades away. It's just mother and son. And, then they both start to cry. Then they run to each other and fall into each other's arms. Okay, maybe not run. It's a small space. And then they hug for four minutes. Then Gail Presses her lips to the side of his face and whispers. I always believed you. I, have something in my eye be to. Dale just wants to take her home, but they can't even get out of the damn office besides the press clamoring interviews, the police are now telling them. They want to question Paul at least go is holding firm. He's in charge in that stat. That's wind Fletcher Chase steps forward gasp. He walks up to capitalise. Gold stands two inches from his face, and he says. Says you will let him go? He tells Paul Needs Medical Care, and at least is in the way, and if he doesn't move, chase will go outside and tell the whole world. At least go is like you talking to me. That's really what he said and chase. who was like six foot, four and pretty much towers over Lico says yeah I'm talking to you. Then he taps him on the chest and his lake. You have five minutes to release Paul to his mother or else. or He's going to blow some of that magic smoke in his face. He doesn't even wait for an answer. Is Point has been made? He goes upstairs and says to Gil get ready. We're getting out of here. Then he puts his trenchcoat around Paul and walks out of the captain's office down the stairs past all the cops and right through the reporters, he parks Paul and Gail in the back seat and gets behind the wheel to drive them back to Rome. When they hit the Strada North they all burst out laughing. Paul Getty the Golden Hippie is finally free, and then the criminals were caught in palm. The rest of the getty family all lived happily ever after. If only Brooke if only. There still so much more to this crazy saga, and clutching my imaginary pearls right now. It's the morning after Paul's dramatic release back in Rome. Snow still blankets, the city hordes of pressing TV cameras are crushing the entrance of an exclusive private clinic. Villa Carla where Paul is recuperating, but inside it's serene and quiet, which is good because Paul is exhausted. Gaels by his side smoothing his forehead and fussing over him. He doesn't WanNa talk about what happened and she doesn't push him. The only thing he seems interested in is eating and guzzling orange juice. He's also still freaked out every sound. Every shadow is enough to send him over the edge. He keeps asking his mom and the orderlies to check his balcony and make sure all his doors and windows are locked. Of course he's got PTSD. He probably thinks everyone who walks into his room wants to cut off his ear. Actually the doctors asked if he wants to get his ear fixed. To fuck off. He wants people to look at him and know the price he paid. Pause benefit clinic barely twenty four hours and he needs time to heal. But. That doesn't stop the press from demanding a statement, they hound gale, and finally she gives in. At nine PM on December seventeenth she's escorted to the clinic lobby by her attorney Giovanni the same lawyer who's been by her side through the whole ordeal. Down and the room quiets. Everyone's waiting for her to speak. We do want to thank everyone who's been helpful and and been with us during this whole thing. My son is very sorry that we can't come down and say these things himself. But he really. is in need of staying in bed. Just wanted to explain a few of the very very small details. Of his imprisonment to explain it, it was never possible for him to have seen anyone because most of the time. He was masked when he was brought his food. The people he saw or the person depending. We're always masked completely disguised. He was confused by being walked about. and. Why did she stop? She can't finish so Giovanni takes her away. Meanwhile, JP is issued his own statement to the press or read it to you. I'm so very happy that the boy is alive. He's very welcome to come home for Christmas but if you needs medical treatment of visit early in the New Year will be certain. His safe return is a birthday present I will never forget. Yet when Paul calls him to thank him for paying the ransom. He refuses to come to the phone. But a secretary gives Paula message. He says you're welcome. Does, that mean the Christmas visit is off. Yeah, it never happened. One Rolling Stone interviews him a few months later. He says the thing is I never thought my grandfather would pay any kind of ransom because of the way he is. Besides I realized they would probably do the same thing because I don't believe that somebody should work for sixty years to make his money and then have some little criminal too lazy to get a job. Take his money away from him, and you have to show by example to criminals that they can't get their way all the time. I'm not even sure what to. To say to that other than wow, I know right. It's like he doesn't want the world to see how hurt he is and has to justify it all somehow, and after Paul's attempt to talk to his GRANDPA, the two will never communicate again, but that's not the end up Paul Story. There's a whole lot more. Why am I? Not surprised the richer, always interesting. What's the secret to your best night's sleep I? Toss out the memory foam. He up I've been sleeping on a mattress from our sponsor Aurora for a couple of weeks now, and it's this incredible organic luxury hybrid mattress with natural foam and New Zealand wool fiber. I know I got mine too, and it is so so soul comfortable. Yeah! I'm a very picky sleeper especially when it comes to mattresses, my husband and And I have a hard time finding one that works for both of us and I. Think a war accomplish this. Yeah, I feel like for me. I tend to toss and turn a lot at night and every night. That I've slept on it. 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That's AWA are a sleep dot com code rich. A global pandemic protests across the country, a nationwide recession so far twenty twenty has felt like ten or fifteen years wrapped up in one and I think we should talk it all out, I'm Sam Sanders I hosted NPR podcast called. It's been a minute each week on my show. I have conversations with all kinds of people to make sense of the news and the culture without making you feel overwhelmed. Join US every Tuesday and Friday listen and subscribe now. It's been a minute from NPR. Even. If Paul can't get free to JP, he hasn't given up hope on family reconciliation, so he decides to visit his father. Junior still. London and Gail agrees to buy her son a ticket, but she's like. Don't expect much. But he can't really help it. It's his dad when Paul Arrives Juniors. Assistant lets him into the House and leads him into the library. He points to a chair for Paul. Sit In and tells him his dad will be down shortly. Four hours later policy fast asleep in the chair. Junior walks into the room. His hair is wet. His eyes are bloodshot. He's thin and Pale on Paul opens his eyes for a moment. He feels like he's looking at it ghost. Is Dead. Skin is translucent. Neither one smiles. Paul idly wonders. Should I get up and hug him. Finally junior breaks the silence. Sorry. I was in the bath. He says a four hour bath. Imagine how pruned his fingers must have been. But more importantly. What kind of way is that to greet your son? After he's been in captivity for five months, right? The whole scene is super awkward. Junior shows Paula new machine. He bought that plays video. Movies called a VCR then. He puts a tape in for them to watch. It's a porno pause lake. I don't WanNa Watch this and so junior starts. Talking says you should tell me a little more about the kidnapping. Paul Stephens Yeay does I guess the Porno still playing. For All I mean the kidnapping. Obviously, it's not his favorite subject. He says I don't feel like it. We'll do it tomorrow. But Junior won't let it go. He's like I believe you had something to do with it. I'm sure you did and God. Damn it now. I'm going at the pace sixty thousand dollars a month. Did He APPS for the kidnapper layaway plan? Apparently, that's the interest payments on the trust fund loan. JP gave him. Pulse crushed. He spent five months in hell and now his father's complaining about the money. It took to get him out of there. There's this long silence and then Paul starts to cry. Junior looks at him and says I think it would be best if you leave. Tomorrow is on a plane back to Rome the next day. Oh Boy, this family! It's January twenty second. Seventy four a few weeks later. Just before dawn in the tiny village of Chicola a squad of police creep into position around a small house. They separate at the front walk. Most of them hide in the bushes. Two guys head for the door. And, then they stopped short and wait. A man inside the house yells no I won't open. The police behind the bushes jump out there. All armed with automatic weapons. The man Pierce through the window. He's outnumbered. He gives himself up without a fight is name is Antonio. Mancuso, so he's a thirty five year old local carpenter and the cops are pretty sure he's one of Paul Getty's kidnappers. Over the next few days, similar scenes play out across the collaborator region. The rates will net a total of eight suspects, and about twenty thousand dollars of the ransom money somewhere more than three million dollars still missing. Yup, but they think they have the guys who did it, so they assume the money will turn up and they have chased to thank for it. Remember when he dropped off the money. Money and blue smoke in the kidnappers face. Of course we'll wa. They were distracted. An unmarked car driven by to Rome. COPS got photographs of all the kidnappers cars which led them directly to gain. That's the kind of trick you'd think would only work on a TV show, but it did thanks to those photos. The cops also arrests a twenty six year old hospital. Orderly in Rome named Domenico Barbie. Barbie no allegedly dealt drugs to Paul, and never got paid, so he told his criminal friends about grabbing Paul as a way of settling his debt, and one of those friends is a boss in one of the big crime families. Paul testifies about his time in captivity at the trials late that year, but his testimony doesn't make much of a difference because most of the kidnappers are acquitted for lack of evidence. Only two of them end up going to jail. As for the money less than a hundred thousand dollars is ever recovered. While, it was a tax. Write for J. P. so he probably doesn't mind so much, but I'm dying to know what happened to Chin Quanta. Did he go back to his family? Did they ever catch him? Nope, he's a man of mystery. Nobody hears from him again. In the movie version I picture him sitting somewhere in the Cayman Islands with three million bucks between his feet, sipping a my tie between his feet. Yes on hold their my time. You know what's weird. What that actually happened to me? I. Remember you telling me. That's Nori Oh. We became friends. So that's the end of the story pretty much a couple convictions. Someone's still has the money Paul is free. He moves on when he seventeen. He marries his girlfriend Martine. You know German twin from episode. One tried to tell the cops. Paul didn't fake the kidnapping. Yes, the only other person who believed it was real other than his mom. And get this Paul Mary's her before he turns eighteen, which according to the rules of the Getty family trust means he's out no inheritance ever. Oh, my God a couple years later. They have a kid and moved to California. That's where they're living when they get the news. John Paul Getty is dead. He dies alone in Sutton, place on June sixth nineteen seventy-six rumor, has it. He was sitting upright in a chair and as always dressed in A. Tailored suit. After JP kicks the bucket mover show up at his mansion to clear everything out. They take the tapestries off the wall and box up the works of art. That may ship it all off to Malibu. Where J. P. was building a museum on the Pacific coast. Three days later, JP will enters probate and it's full of surprises. One of his Ex ex-girlfriend's get one hundred twenty five dollars a month for life or being a lund, his trusty lawyer slash lover gets two hundred and nine dollars a month. These are such random numbers, and he's so worried. The kids will burn his body. He sets aside fifty thousand dollars to build a marble mausoleum where he wants to be buried. But the bulk of his estate is paintings, tapestries and his fortune goes to. Just say it. It goes to his museum in California, overnight the J Paul Getty Museum becomes the richest in the world. Meanwhile JP's kids are left wondering how their father could have done them so dirty. Do they get free admission to the museum? At least better than that? Remember the trust fund. JT's mom forced him to set up for future generations. Yeah, well, it pays off. The trust has almost two billion dollars, which earns one million dollars a day in interest and jp kids will spend the next decade fighting over it I'm sorry, but no one needs that much money seriously. The windfall inspired this total turnaround in junior. He crawls out of his abyss of Booze and drugs. He cleans up his act and gets completely sober. He becomes a British citizen and even takes on an English. And he starts giving money away to charity. He'll give away almost two hundred million dollars in the last twenty years of his life. He's even knighted by the Queen. About the only person who doesn't get anything in the will is Paul not that he cares at least at first. He and Martin travel the globe partying and hanging out with celebrities like Andy Warhol in Jack Nicholson Hall even goes to college to be a painter except he only lasts one day according to one biographer I don't know I think when you go through. Something like Paul did it's pretty tough to recover. He starts drinking and doing drugs. He dressed through life without purpose and then in Nineteen eighty-one when he's twenty four years old Paul does some combination of drugs at a party in Los Angeles, he has a stroke and falls into a coma. Wakes up. He's paraplegic and he's blind. He'll never speak again. He dies at fifty four arena. This is really depressing. This is supposed to be a funny show. Tell me there's a happy ending for someone here. Well Gill still alive. She's in her eighties now, and she lives in London, or keeps a low profile and how about Fletcher Chase. What happened to him? No one knows what happens to him. I looked everywhere to. But at some point, Charles Fox. The author of kidnapped tracked him for his book. He was living in a swanky bungalow on the South Carolina coast, boxes! Chase agreed to talk to him, but always set his own terms on the time and place. That's our chase his way or the highway. But Fox? Does ask him what he thinks really happened and who was behind it? And get this, he says quote. Pollen Gail cooked up the whole thing and loss control. What I'm sorry, I still don't believe that Fox also interviewed Martin. She told him that at one time. Paul had talked about staging his own kidnapping, but that's all it was just talk. They both had this fantasy of creating an artist. Utopia and policy always trying to come up with a way to raise the money. She never believe he would go so far as to get himself kidnapped now at the same time they were hanging out with all these super shady people like drug dealers and hustlers who had ties to the Mafia and Paul could be allowed now. It doesn't stretch the imagination that somebody hurt him and thought well. That's a great idea I mean. He was again he. In the end Fox concludes that Paul probably planned it, and then changed his mind, but it was too late it spiraled out of control and became a real kidnapping. But nobody really knows. However, it started Paul ended up on the crap end of it all upon in a much bigger game where there weren't any winners, while except forever ended up without ransom money right except for them I mean for all. We know they're listening to this right now and laughing. Of course they are were hilarious. This is the final episode of our four part series. The kidnapping of Paul Getty in our next episode. We'll be talking to David SCARPA. He wrote the screenplay for all the money in the world, the two thousand seventeen film about the Getty kidnapping starring Michelle Williams and Mark Wahlberg. If you like our show, please give us a five star rating and review and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify the wondering APP, or wherever you're listening right now. Join one plus in the wondering APP to listen Ad Free in the episode notes. You'll find links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them another. Another way you can support. The show is by filling a small survey at wondering dot com slash survey. We use many sources when researching our stories like Vanity Fair, The New York Times and Rolling Stone magazine, but we especially recommend three books kidnapped by Charles Fox all the money in the world by John. Pearson and the House of Getty by Russell Miller. I'm Risha skidmore Williams and I'm Brooks Different Elizabeth? Colson wrote this episode. Our Editors Loredana Palivoda sound designed by James Morgan with audio assistance by Sergio and Rica's Kayla singer is our associate producer are executive. Producers Are Stephanie Jen's Marshal Louis and Hernan Lopez for wondering. I'm Lindsey Graham host of wondering show American scandal within to live some of the biggest controversies and US history presidential lies, environmental disasters corporate fraud in our new series. We head back to the nineteen nineties when big tobacco face a day of reckoning, whistleblowers came forward exposed countless lives about cigarettes, addiction and cancer, but the tobacco industry fought back and soon found itself at the center of a legal battle that would change history subscribe to American scandal on Apple, podcasts spotify or listen ad free in the wondering APP.

Paul Paul Getty Fletcher Chase Rome Gail Paul Gill chase kidnapping Getty Rome Gale Brooke Paul Gatti Italy J Paul Getty Museum Chin Quanta US Paula Gil
Tayari Jones & Carrie Mae Weems: What's It Like Up There?

Death, Sex and Money

26:40 min | 1 year ago

Tayari Jones & Carrie Mae Weems: What's It Like Up There?

"Approach. Listener support W in Weiss e studios. So you're interviewing me, I am cook goodness. I thought it was like more of a conversation somehow between the two of us, which is also true is our our to do with as we please. I'm ready. This is sex and money, pay me to give them pleasure. The show from WNYC about the things we think about a lot, okay? I'll lose my job and need to talk about more at your funeral sir. I'm Terry Jones in for Anna sale. Artists. Carrie may Weems was in her late teens when she got her first camera it was a gift from a boyfriend. I was I think maybe eighteen or nineteen years old and, and he was doing a who's really an awful person in so many ways, but he, but he did give me a tool, and that was my camera that really took me into my life, a very interesting and important way. I'm so tickled to. Horrible person. A lot of ways that was funny. Oh, he really really was. You know, he was kind of person who was, you know. Really, really smart. But really nip Yalies? And that to me is a really dangerous person. And, and so I left him and he was stunned. You just could not believe this. This woman was leaving. And so he's, you know, he's been obsessed with me for years, because I'm one of the only ones who left. But he gave me a camera, and he gave me some ideas about what I wanted to do in the world, and for that I'm deeply grateful. Kerry's work has been hugely. Influential on me, not just as a writer. But as a person, she's a renowned photographer performance artist, a MacArthur, fellow, the first black woman to have a retrospective at the Guggenheim museum. But if you're not into art all you need to know is this Carrie may Weems is a singular trail-blazing artists at the top of her game. I had a lot. I wanted to know about her, but maybe I should have known that our interview, wouldn't be a one way street after all, she someone who's made a career of looking at the world and the people around her and asking questions about them through her work. And sure enough, she had some questions for me about what my life has been, like, after my novel and American marriage came out last year and became a prize winner and the bestseller. What are you going for yourself now looking forward, while I'm trying to figure that out this part of the reason why I wanted to talk. To you. Because, you know, things I don't know. You've seen things I haven't seen what is there? What is their next like a do want to grow as artists? But I also know that art cannot be your whole life. And so I don't know what I want next. I feel like I worked so long and hard for this moment, and I hadn't really thought about beyond it, but I'm looking at you as a person who's several steps ahead of me, and I'm saying, what's it like up there idea with that knee? We'll figure it out. Carey grew up in Portland, Oregon in the nineteen fifties and sixties. She was one of seven kids and her love of the arts was evident early on. I knew that I was going to be an artist as a child. I didn't know what kind of artists, I was going to be. But I knew that I had so sort of a three particular kind of impulse very early on. It's kept me ages, and an interested in engaged in the world in a very particular way. Now, your parents, divorced when you were eight but they it seems like they are painters in this thing that everyone calls co-parenting now that the parenting transcended the marriage. Is your father, live nearby? That's right. Was this an unusual situation there or just life? Yeah. No. My father was very much involved in our, our lives and. My mother and father knew each other almost all their lives, their family lived across the street from my from her family. So there was a, there was a deeper bond, I think, in their, their relationship and that extended until the day my father died. They remain close friends, they remained connected. My father was it every holiday with my family. Even when my mother remarried I mean, my father was always a very important part of our lives. And for that, I'm deeply deeply grateful. I remember my mother asking my mother, what she felt from my father. And she said. Well, the sun rose and set in your five. Hey, it rose and set in this man. And, and even though we could make it I always wanted you to have a relationship with this man. So I saw them go through their struggle. I side with that was like, but I also saw what it looked like to come out on the other side of that into be great friends in great comrades and still love. One another with simply knowing that they couldn't make together. Black family. Life is the subject of my favorite work of carries called the kitchen table series. She created it when she was teaching at Hampshire college in the late nineteen eighties in it. She photographs herself in her own kitchen for a series of images that tries to unpack. And then up in what domesticity has traditionally looked like for black women at the time that was something, she was thinking about a lot in her own life. You know, I didn't think that I was going to marry because it wasn't something that I was interested in, I was much more interested in the arts night. It was much more interested in pursuing that part of myself. I didn't want anything to distract from that Brita, but I married her right, man. I married the right person for me. And for my temperament, so we actually work well together. Now, how did you know this was the right person for you? Very interestingly, when I met my husband, my husband in dark room and dark room or dark refer to graphic dark room. While I was, I was printing and he walked into the dark room. Somebody said the Jeff who wanted to stop by to meet me, and so Jeff knocked on the door. I was in the process of printing literally, I had them, wait for a few moments until finish knocking out this print that I was working on and I opened the door. And I looked at him. And I said, oh, my God. This is going to be my husband. So what a weird thought. You don't want to get married. It was like it was like a it was like a subconscious thing. This is going to be your reality. This is this. You have just met the man, you're going to spend the rest of your life with, and I thought, I don't want to spend the rest of my life with him. I have like, really fine black boyfriend in, in, in Oakland, California, who was so fine. It's like waking up to like sunshine. It was just like gorgeous. Right at this beautiful face, and these sort of high cheekbones beautiful mouth, and these dreadlocks he was just it was just a beautiful, beautiful beautiful soul. And so I just could not figure out why my head was telling me this thing about this man that I was going to marry. But it did tell me that. How old were you when you got married? I was in my forties. I just turned forty I had actually just turned forty. You know, basically, my husband asked me, one day, if I would marry him, I was working on exhibition actually for the, the Getty museum. And I was in a really contentious fight with the institution around a set of works that I wanted to show and why and so was it was a sort of a complicated time. So I was really thinking about relationships. You know, I was I remember lying in bed staring at the ceiling just sort of mapping out how to approach some ideas around my work, and how is going to deal with all the legal questions that were coming, my way. And, and he, I remember he sort of dropped the newspaper and he looked at me. And he said, are you ever going to marry me? And you said and I looked at him for a really long time. It was like I could see, like my life, sort of spinning out and. Is sort of spread out before meal. So I said, well, I guess you'll ask me one of these days and that, you know. And so maybe two minutes later, he said. Well, will you marry me? And I looked at him again for a long time. And then I finally said. Yes. And he said win. Am I said, whenever you say and he said right now today? No that day right now today. So we were in LA. Yes. And we've got married in Mexico. I wanna ask completely superficial question. What did you wear I happen to bring? I just happened to. A fabulous white long. Silk dress in my bed with the very hip a very sweater. Right. Because I used to dress up all the time. So I just happened to have this with me. So it was perfect. We stopped at, you know, be like jumped in a car, we stopped at the, the local, JC Penney's or Sears Roebuck. I'm not really sure which one it was at the same the same. You know, we picked up like rings like nineteen ninety nine ninety nine ninety nine or something, and we drove to Mexico. We found Justice of the peace and we got married for seventy nine dollars ninety nine cents. And it was fantastic. We came back across the border from Tijuana and the del Coronado hotel is right there. So we decided that we would go there for champagne. There is a Sunday, there were ton of weddings that were going on. And so we just crash somebody else's wedding party, and we drink drink champagne champagne. I feel like that's some kind of wonderful metaphor for life drink someone else's Shimane, wonderful. It was a really beautiful wedding day. It was really great. So that's the way I sort of came to be a came to be married. But house, if the came not to be. Coming up. It's my turn, and what is it about relationships that sort of since you back into yourself away from this sort of D-print tangle -ment of living with a partner? Hello, everyone. It's Anna in as of Monday. I am back from maternity leave. It was a really special time to be home with my baby and my toddler and to think about a lot of other things besides work, but it was also really fun to get to dip into the show and here, incredible conversations that the team put together with our guest host like this interview between Yari and carry me Weems hearing them. Talk reminds me of how much I enjoyed interviewing Tyree last year. If you wanna hear our conversation, text the word tie Yari to the number seven one, a one, she has some great tales about her frozen Margarita years in Texas, which make for great summer listening. I'm excited to be back at work now. And I'm spending this week in New York with the team taping a lot of interviews to share with you starting with something familiar. We began my maternity leave by asking you to send us your stories about going through big transitions at work, and I'm. The next episode we're going to hear more about those I was very unexpectedly laid off from my job week break from Walker because I had surgery, my husband and I left our jobs to travel for a year, then I had my daughter and decided that I would pursue my dream of being a cheese monger. And I catch up with longtime friend of the show. Bouma kandebow Lou mother of comedian. Hurry, kandebow Lou. She just retired from her thirty year career in healthcare, and we talked together about the big shifts around work identity that we're both experiencing right now. Death sex and money is supported by luminary, the only place you can listen to the new podcast anthem from John Cameron Mitchell. And Brian Weller anthem is a one of kind podcast musical with thirty one original songs delivered by forty actors including Tony award winners. Glenn Close Patti LuPone and Cynthia review listened to anthem and other original podcasts only on luminary. Visit luminary dot links. Lash DSM for your first two months of luminaries premium content free after that. It's seventy nine per month, cancel anytime. Terms apply. Hey, there unpack Walter senior editor at radio lab, and this summer, I'm posting a new series on the concept of intelligence seems like Andorra's box. We're calling the series g and dives deep into the biological store Kel and ethical debate swirling around this controversial idea. What exactly is intelligence in? We measure it and should we listen to radio app from WNYC studios wherever you get your podcasts. This is death sex and money from WNYC. I'm sorry Jones in for Anna sale. Have you been married and never been married? Do you wanna be, you know, do I want to be married? I always say that I would like to meet someone who would make me want to be married. I've never met anyone that I wanted to marry a friend of mine said, I've seen the way you behave when you want something, and this isn't the way that you behave in pursuit of your relationships, I do think like you said that the art is very demanding a very demanding life also. I mean, it is I do think one of the differences between men and women is that as a woman becomes more powerful in her career in her life, it becomes almost like a, a liability socially in that. It become the, there's an idea of, like, well, do you need a man? Can you make? How will you make a man comfortable, you know, having accomplished so much where a man as he becomes more accomplished becomes, like a chick magnet? So that's probably something in the mix for me. I don't know. But it could just be my issue. I don't know. A good life. I think that there was a time in my life when I felt guilty for feeling. Like I have a good life. I think as a single woman, I don't have children either. Sometimes when my accomplishments are, are laid out people consume them, ironically, like you have everything that you have nothing and I have found that is not true. But at the same time, there are, there are intangibles that come along with being partnered, and also, I'm sure my imaginary partner is more, awesome than the partner would be in real life. But sometimes, I think my imaginary partner would greatly enhanced, my life, you know, they're, they're, they're a couple of things that, you know, that you're saying that strike me. I mean, you know, you you're very, you're very traditional me. Traditionalist and a lot of ways me, tell me tell me well, I mean, you know, just to the way in which is sort of talking about these ideas about sort of relationship and binary relationship, the mini different ways of having a partner love. Of course as one intimate love. Sexual love is one digital marriages, another polygamy is another. I'm actually like amazing. I've never really been interested. I think primarily in the binary. While I'm in a heterosexual relationship, and I enjoy my husband and I believe, in, in loyalty, loyalty from me has never been really about whether or not once leaps with somebody else. And I think I felt this way for a very long time, which is one of the reasons that I didn't think that I would necessarily be married. So really value, the other kinds of relationships that I have in my life. I value. My, my other men, friends, the women friends, what I get for from them. In a lot of ways is just as important as when I get from my husband, you know, from the person that I wake up with every morning, and, you know, I tried to start teasing these ideas out very early for myself the limits of relationships limits parenthood, the limits of, you know, all of these sort of binary boxes into relationships in ways that start to deny sort of rightful sense of the complexity of self. I do think that I do think that these ideas of relationships, certainly box, particularly these kind of gender notions of relationships. I feel like. I feel like I am not so much afraid of marriage and that I'm afraid of being a wife. I don't know many models of women having the type of life that I want to have that are also wives, most of the women, I admire are single in the ones who are who are married. They did marry in their forties or later. And so, I wonder if it's about those important, especially his artists, those formative years not being being married. But I don't know. I, I think there's something that no matter what that in every relationship when you into the relationship that you enter it under certain terms. And if you enter the relationship under the wrong terms, it's really difficult to set the terms later. Right. And so, so that to me has been a very important sort of barometer. You know that, you know that if I'm entering relationships struggling around notions of my since my ability to work, then it's not a relationship that I can stay in ira- already. See the handwriting is on the wall. This will not work. This cannot work. I've got to turn it back to you, because I'm so interested in this one question you've written about not being paid for your work at the same rate as your male counterparts. Absolutely. Absolutely things. Are these things are absolutely real. And I'm deeply aware of them. And the thing that I try to do about them is to is to constantly talk about them in smart ways. Tell me that are always simply simply always making making the point. You're always talking about it. I mean, the thing's really important about working artists is that, you know, there are any number stances that we can take you can lay the material ad in such a way that it brings millions of people to you. Right. Or you can lay the information out in a way that simply gets buried. So in using all of my wiles I do. I sort of bring these ideas, constantly full word in the work that I making so that it's her right? Have you seen? Have you seen evidence that bringing this issue to light has changed? Things has changed things for you. It's, you know, interestingly enough miraculously enough, just the other day, one of my pieces sold kitchen table soult and broke auction record. I saw that I'd saw that just about ten minutes ago. How did it feel like we've got a long way to go? I was marked. It was noted it was noted it was like, finally, and I really sort of looked at it that way, like good. Good. This is a good start. Finally, somebody starting to pay attention. They pay money to a little bit. So I think that these are important things and not just for me but for others as well. But it is starting to change. Right. Whether we're talking about it in terms of like popular culture. What we see on TV. What we see published what we see on museum walls. All of this is very much part of the demographic, shifting from from white to black various shades of Brown. Right. I mean, this is really sort of what we're up against, and these huge institutions are having to sort of rethink where they are right in, and then the market is affected by that in the in the museum is affected by the market. So all of those things, I think are really deeply connected in the push that I think we've all been been trying to make. But it's also a part of something that's that cannot be denied. And that is really sort of systematic and that change taking place in the country. Right. But you can only do it with people that are willing to go there with Hugh, you can't force. Them as they say, you, can you can take the horse to the water, but you can't make them drink. Right. It only takes us people who don't necessarily after green on everything. Right. But the thing that you can agree on, is it? You're trying to get closer to your humanness. I have to tell you one more thing about your own work, and the what is meant to me. The kitchen table series is, as profound to me, and my understanding of. Stories in the home to Mesic stories, is it is, as profound to me, as beloved and I have it on my bookshelf face out. And I was there it was evening. I had I had a lover, it was, you know, we were in my in my living room, and we would all like, hugged up and everything. And I knew this was not the best situation for me. I knew it like in the back of my mind. And I looked over his shoulder and the kitchen table series, was there and the image if you and not like made I contact and avoid inside my head said, Carrie may Weems want something better for you. And I knew I knew the relationship had to end all the effort and work and traditions in there that just jumped out in just kind of snatch me out of a bad situation. So for that I thank you. That's part is carry. My wings, her work is currently on view all over Toronto. She's also one of six artists who help curate exhibition at the Guggenheim museum that's on view. Now, if you're in Canada, or New York. Trust me. Go go go. And by the way, that print from the kitchen table series. It's sold for seventy thousand dollars. You can follow me Tari Jones on Twitter, Instagram at TI and find my most recent novel and American marriage wherever you get your books that's sex and money is a listener supported production of WNYC studios in New York. Our team includes Katie Bishop Annabel bacon, Emily teen and Andrew done. Our intern is Emily the doll. The Reverend John Delore and Steve Lewis wrote are being and I know there are a lot of podcast out there, but this is one that I make time for and you should too subscribe to death sex. Money wherever you're listening right now. And if you don't know where to start head on over to death sex, money dot org slash starter kit, where they've collected some of their favorite episodes to get you hooked. Carey the one of the things that matters most me as a writer, is my black women readers. But we're both pleased to note that our work connects with other folks to and fact, I was walking through the airport this morning with your book, and a little white woman who was probably about seventy turned him in. She said, oh, that's a fabulous. Oh, that's a fabulous. She said it twice, you know, she wanted me to know she had read it at check that out and that, you know, she was really happy to see me carrying in reading. I'm sorry Jones. And this is death sex and money from WNYC.

Terry Jones Weems partner Carrie Guggenheim museum WNYC WNYC WNYC studios writer New York Carey Weiss e studios Kerry Mexico Getty museum MacArthur Brita Jeff Hampshire college Oakland
The Good-Bad Boy With Jacob Wysocki

I Burn Everything

1:18:10 hr | 8 months ago

The Good-Bad Boy With Jacob Wysocki

"Hey guys I'm Stevie Nelson I burn everything a food and relationship podcast. Stevie we have say it every time I'd probably say we have an amazing and guest. This is one of my. I got hill here. This and he'll know he's one of my favorite people for a couple of years. He's a really fantastic writer performer. podcast there he's got a new show is going to tell us about. Its jacobite sake. I Jake Up. Thanks for coming on the show and hitting that note so fast worries I was locked and loaded a singer. I can carry a tune I tell I could carry. That doesn't surprise me but I don't think I've actually heard you sing. I don't think it's the thing I do a lot going to be an asset in your field though. Yeah I don't have you been in a musical in highschool who there's some there's footage judge. We don't eat we won't pry. But but if there's Jimmy doing the producers pippen a bit of Magic to do in singing that thing that I saw the full lion makeup right full winemaker and make no I just remember. I did a show with Jacob and I came in he was in full beautiful professionally done like Cat Makeup Cau- wow I would like somewhere that make up in life like I think that's a nice look you're both of us lions I guess judgment mm-hmm and criticism and Just trying to really fit in here Stevie I think you do. Do you know this is neither here nor there but I was going through my On my Iphoto last night because I have some photos or on the computer. That aren't on my phone. And I found found the videos gone. But I found stills from when you and I shot that thing and we were engaged we played engaged couple so at six years ago six years ago. He's our lifetime. Basically doing art do enough to making our wonderful wonderful man. You can ask that in front of me. What goes bad Davis the wonderful wonderful man? Maybe besides you left on earth. That's wow I mean. That's a lot of pressure into this episode but let's be let's resettles because who knows maybe I'm maybe I'm a bad boy. Today Jake was bit of a bad boy I think just in terms of overall five in the best possible way. You You have a marathon podcast. That's about to come out yet. It's called I don't WanNa talk about fight club anymore where I attempt to watch bitcoin for seventy two hours straight sleep. No I was wondering about this. I get so format wise. Is it all seventy so. It's like the movies. He's a little under two hours. Long rate to twenty. It's way too long. Oh it's over two years which were hurts way. To how many times did you have to watch it. Then seventy two hours ours will be thirty one viewings so is the thirty one episodes of the show. No no I I have to wash along episodes or you can watch the movie along with me and guests and that I have Seven episodes that are blocked out through different sections so the first episodes my first viewing the second episode of viewing is like my fifteen ha where you're opening a door along the whole route. Where where did the idea come from? Do you dislike the movie like the movie. Are you sick of the movie. But this before the show starts so I wanted to do a podcast and I sent an emailed ahead gum with a bunch of different pitches and one that I wrote was. I don't want to talk about fight club anymore because I thought I had a title is a great title the perfect title. That's the one they wanted me to write a one page for. Of course that ever like Jacob Chat. It's never the one that's easiest that you could do forever. It's it's also however a podcast starts. No one actually has a premise for podcast. We all just come up with titles. I that's how this podcast. Also this was going to be what the cooking show or something when it was mostly just a joke that I tweet it and then it became a podcast. Because you were like you might your coast and then we literally started doing something like if I had a one woman show called Auburn. Everything about how I can't cook in about dating replied and said something upon casts That I would co host and then then we do. Yeah you just have to have a good tidal heidel show Biz works. You have a skeleton. You can put some meat on this. But while I developed the idea became more about like pushing myself in like trying to obtain goals and like I I found substance in it to make it more than just a funny title. I'm sure you did. You have specific feelings about it before like besides just being a title for a show which it is D- Did you. Is it something you detest something you liked. I think think it's like I don't think there's a market for it in the podcasts world. which is what I think is? It's big advantage is. Nobody's doing that in this medium. Nobody's trying to be. I WANNA be the Morgan spurlock of like nobody's doing these big like endurance Lawrence torture projects projects. Yeah everyone's doing do it comfortably like they're just like how could I do this once a week. No more more people in familiar with I have a question. Do you WanNa Watch fight club. If you had the right now. I probably wouldn't have to leave. We would never put it on your thank you promise I was. I was told this would be a safe space. Yes yes you're did you did you come away with any sort of like overall big takeaways in terms of This is how it actually is a satire of toxic masculine and it's not toxic itself or it it was trying to be that and it fails on all levels. It's actually great to women and Ultimately becomes Komo. It's much it's like a series of images with sound seeing that follows the same pattern overt birtwell but yeah. I don't think I discovered anything novel about the movie like true. Isn't that sad like no. I kinda love because it makes me think that you could do it with any movie including like either the most inoffensive movie movie you absolutely love and you wouldn't come away going unlocked secrets. Oh you've come away going. This is nothing. Why do they even make movies? Love that conclusion so funny. How did you stay awake for seventy two hours? Well I don't want to spoil it but if I were to have a lot of it was just willpower and truly standing up like when I started to nod I would just stand in the doorway with the door open in the cold air and just kinda stare at the screen. That's you're you're you're a braverman man than I because any time I've tried to. I feel like starting in college any attempted even just all nighter has usually lead to seven or eight I am. I'm out and then I convince myself I don't need to do this if it's like I have to finish this paper to finish the script. I have to finish editing this thing invariably oh I will always go I can. I can do this another time. I can convince someone that they don't need this for me right now. Yeah I think if you may be designed it with where you didn't have an out out. Yeah I think that's the difference. Yeah but I also want to make cards on the table on was like I'm going to do this thing so there was no other option. Just record it tomorrow. Yeah as a postscript to it did it. How long did it take you to come out of the fog could earnestly probably say I'm still dealing with it on no? It doesn't make sense to three weeks. Just it was just. It's really tough. It was psychologically really bad for me And I think it just really really like can't your body didn't want to go to sleep. Blake when it was done I slept for like five hours and then I like was up in like fell just is wired as I was the rest of it and went. To a game of thrones party or something ah I went to bed and then I slept like sixteen hours. Yes and what like a couple of those like just real big like ten hours sleep. Isn't it nuts. How not getting enough sleep? Just even one night can destroy a whole. It destroys a whole month for me. I can't yes really weird. What besides keeping your your your brain awake? What were you doing were you? What were you eating? What kind of how to differ from normally or you eating stay awake I well I did. I was coffee last case scenario. I had adderall. I didn't end up taking it because I was just like. That's going to. That's the double edged sword. We're all keep it up but then I'll have to crash. Yeah and your brain will will go on autopilot. which is you? Don't have that thought it would be too unhealthy to be up that at long and then be like. Here's this yeah. Yeah I was eating I really stocked up snacks guests coming over and stuff you know I had the classic we had some hot cheetos. Some hot fries your little dip with pita. My mom came over and drop off like a bunch of pulled pork and Mac can cheese brownies and shit. That's ten out of ten mom. Your mom lives in the neighborhood her she lives near you. Yes she's like like forty five to our our way. Did any of the snacks help you stay awake. Better than others I think it's just good to be doing something other than Jing. uh-huh chewing not watching. I'm chewing yeah. How did you gauge were you ever ever able to look away from the TV? Like how'd you gauge watching. After a while it was like I was like I really don't care if I'm on my phone like I have about more than halfway three realize that I could play this movie on my laptop and then I was sitting outside. That's really nice to just switch it up and not be in a box. Yeah if had gum came to you and said we wanNA sequel would you. Would you do it and be do you know what movie would do I probably would do eh but I would do different parameters like I don't think I would watch a movie for seventy two hours. I think I would like the thing that I think is the most interesting to me and I don't know how you do it. Would it'd be like to go to the Getty Museum five days in a row opened a close. Oh that's way better and like that's something you can do. It's not like super detrimental to my health But but it is going to be annoying the second day I go. Yeah and but also there's more there's more walking around. It's probably harder to eat a it. Just just pure calories to keep your blood sugar spiking so you can stay awake. You're not watching Helena. Bonham Carter say Ivan even fuck like Grade School Eighty seven times which you're like okay. I guess that's the fourth time you're like I think maybe maybe I don't like at this. Yeah this is too much for me. I have a confession please. I have never seen fight club all the way through your fine. Thank you had. Yeah I think I've seen bits and pieces when it's been on. TV somewhere never cared to watch it in a real way. It's fine my you're good. You're you're totally a bit of a little chuck panic phase. He's he's the author of the book. went went. Speak in he This was in college agent with my brother and my aunt who was a real interesting woman and He told one of the most disgusting describing. Someone's Oh she's she's got a real horrible. Oh No no a wonderful wonderful woman but you know has has some great One of my favorite pull quotes of hers are ISM Quail Quail eggs. Were so fun. They had to stop making them. Yeah that's okay. Yeah that's that's that's her vibe but he read a story. That was so graphic doc that people were were almost like going to be sick. Yeah I e Yeah critical guts. Yeah I I did a little bit of reading about him and it just seemed like everything was controversial. You can like like pushing it my wrong. No no I think I think pushing it is a very He's he's he's a very divisive figure he he himself is gay. So it's like calling the book and the movie You know super misogynist Acre or homophobic he can refute that but then also he he. He's like a journalist so he he's written these stories stories about the the horrible ways people Get off or are gratified sexually. And that's the story that made people vomit. It's just a very like he's a very mild mild looking man he looks very normal and I think that the point is he wants you to be like. I can't believe this normal man is awesome naughty in nasty bad boy bad boy boys. I hope I'm not mischaracterizing. You you as a bad boy. I'm trying to be fun. Why called them? That earlier agreed. Yeah he called himself a Baddie. I think when I'm I'm just saying is that you're cool. Thank you yeah I think I do cool stuff. I think I'm a pretty cool guy. Yeah I think I kind of like can fluctuate on that if there's like a spectrum spectrum of bad guide a nice guy like I think like what I'm doing my own thing I can be perceived more as I guess on the bad spectrum. I think when it comes like dating and relationships I do probably really fit the Nice Guy Mold I think so. Yeah we've had. We've had a handful of really nice conversation. Ah about relationships and I feel like it doesn't Jive with your personality. I almost feel like you're you're doing wonders for the the bad boy community you by injecting some sensitivity into it you know. Yeah that's a cool way to look at it. I think it's because women really like you men really like you and I think like any any time I've perceived to be like Oh like Oh what are you doing who you texting. It's like underneath it all. You've your bit of romantic. I think yeah I do like romance insight. I like to be sweet. I think I was given like good. unedited love from my parents. And that's the Kinda love I wanNA give other people And so I just wanted to be able to give that to people and I think like there's really no way to be cool and do that. Like classically cooler socially cool like earnestly have an attempt to be open and give people good like positive radiant. Energy Energy is kind of Dorky Mike Goofy. I think it's onerous but I think is cool. Yeah I think I think we are experiencing a bit of a shift. Where where we're we're tipping the scales a little bit into you know what's like a good example like you have very cool long hair that sometimes it's very ornately braided needed and I feel like I've seen people braid your hair in public and I'm like that's an objectively cool thing that somebody like a if a guy in the fifty? FDA with a pack of cigarettes rolled up sleeves. saw that he'd be like what's this guy doing. But it's like hey man you're gonna Diet forty three of like you know a heart attack. Becomes cancer answered smoke nine packs a day and you eat red meat three meals a day. You can't do that no you can't have have you. Do you find your perceived to be like a batter cool guy. A bad boy are cool boy but By the women you date or do you feel like you're misunderstood woke me you really a cool guy but you still have to be safe. You bought your knee. We gotta be a little fucking care. Yeah Yeah I think women I pursue I probably perceived as a nice guy because that's how I just interact act with people I'm interested in is that I'm nice and I'm like open and probably not you know in my normal zone like I'm not like at Ucla or something like that. I'm like somewhere where they are trying to do. Something they like. or I'm more more in their court where it's like you don't get to see me in my comfortable in my like my arena or whatever and I think women that pursue me probably leave you mean like somebody who's like I don't know like all alternate alternative or something like that you know where it's like. Oh He's a little bit different different than the other people on. That's interesting oh I see okay. That makes sense. Yeah wait are we trying to quite like being interesting Dean earlier. We try to say that being interesting in an artistic way or like having kind of like avangard sense of humor or makes you. A bad boy was that we were trying to say like what makes you. I'm confused. Is that a joke like are you not a bad boy at all. Do I think I'm like a little bad he'd I I. Oh I don't know like I I think people are like fuck off and I kind of do not mean that. Yeah I think I think you feel I. I think you're you're not afraid to to say what's on your mind. I also think there's a little bit of like a Social Party element to that too where it's like. Uh All roll up to a couple of parties and tonight if I'm if I'm feeling it like you know I think for me it's like I think you know it when you see like I've had periods of time Romeiko. I'm like oh I think maybe I'm venturing into like a bit of a bad boy territory but at this point now I'm just a big old. softy yeah I think it operates on a a pendulum and it's definitely like moment to moment. Where if you see me with my parents there's no way I'm going to seem like a bad boy? Oh Yeah but if you see see me with the bath boys your schedule. Where like shitting on? Somebody's car and you're like whoo. What a handsome boy shitting on a car Is that something really. Yeah I mean in the in the joke. The jokes the example that has making. We're shitting on a car. No I knew that for a second you know where is the confusion. has there been an swear. No no peeking. No no no legally binding. When you say something on a podcast legally binding I'll say no copyright ix sunless podcasts either? I like that though. I think everyone everyone should have a little bad in a good think anyone who is all good is probably all bad. Oh and WHO's all bad is probably some good. Yeah yeah well I think if you're all everybody's faulty everybody fucks up. Everybody like trauma and issues so anybody who thinks that they're all good. It's I would say it has to be some sort of like facade and so it's like you're hiding the cracks letting anybody see the cracks like that makes me feel like the cracks are for deeper than anybody. Who's yeah yeah we good yes? Yes yes what are your bad girl. Tendencies bagger tendencies. It actually really depends on the season like like. Sometimes I you know go to bed early. Wake up early go and do my routine like sometimes I'm very in this like healthy sort of I'm treating myself nice and then sometimes I'll go out till three a. m. dating someone I shouldn't be dating type by but bad had I did flip someone off in crosswalk the other day when I saw you ran into each other and she had just flipped off a stranger and literally. No reason like fee on it. I was on one. I was on one. Sometimes I get on one and I flipped a guy off because he didn't see me but also like why would he have you know and I love when pedestrians are aggressive. Because it's just like it's so wild in La. Because I'm also the person driving the car most of the time don't bat an eye. Yeah it's crazy Yeah no I don't know I'm always a little bad. I like to keep a little bit bad in me because otherwise it's kind of boring. I agree keep like I keep like like thirty percent. Bad seventy percents. I'm nice to people I love and if I you fuck me over you dead to me sometimes you WanNa let the the devil win. Yeah they should win. Sometimes I also think it's like we're kind of skirting around but the concept of being on one is maybe even more accurate than being like a bad boy. We're back yeah like times right been truly on you know. And I'm slumming it that's what I'm perceiving because like that's also also I mean I've like a great example as I've had some some like I said earlier like genuinely touching articulate like wonderful conversations for stations with you out about and then I've also ran into you and just like cackled maniacally at two forty five in the morning out somewhere. You're absolutely no good but I think that it is a pendulum thing because I think there's value in both if we were just sitting around sipping zipping a green tea and talking about our feelings like you gotTa have the other side it gets boring. I think that's a good way to you. Just get get bored and you. I don't ever WANNA be one lane. I WANNA I WANNA swerve around. I want to be like the one past downtown is listen have some curves. Yeah I agree I think Any other way would get boring fast. Also I love calling on one. I think that's really accurate because issue Chicago that that's really good. Yeah we made that up right. I this legally binding always say on a podcast. It came upon podcast. It's legally binding. So how do you how do you keep your edge when you are in a relationship which will may be curbed some of those those tendencies. Because you're you're currently dating someone. Yeah I'm in a relationship. Congratulations thank you so much. It's it rocks. How long has it been We're we're coming up on. I think five months a lifetime in La it's quite some time three years in La. Yeah it's my longest relationship in. Oh Bile. Yeah I've had a couple three months okay. Same never quite gets off the ground. For some reason it's weird it's like one devices like fallen behind him. I don't know man. I never was able to catch up the three-month the six to eight week or they're they're they're very significant. It's not like we can immediately forget about six day weeks. Those are yeah. That was our something else and weaker. squeakers are you know they they count the matter and then they're over over a week. That's six hangs right an eight weeks. Oh it could be six to twenty hang depending on you. You know the thing. I feel like my eight weeks okay. Three months years they end fine they always end fine right. It's like two people being like I don't know man I'm just not feeling it or somewhat one of us. Feeling the eight acres. Those end inflames one hundred percent of the time. Because you'll be able to develop something in two months and exploded exploded in two months. That's good there could be a road trip slash full on vacation in that. At some point you talked about getting married for some reason it got to and then ended in only going to be both want kids and we both want to kids. Yes this is GonNa work because we want the same amount of kids one thing John. You're like we both like Mediterranean food. I know anyone in La who likes that so rare so rare four four thirty. I had a four month or where I literally kept a list of things that me me in this person had in common and we excitedly like added to the list and that one ended so poor. No you can't keep alley. Okay yeah the last my last eight weaker that just ended. He kept a list of things he liked about me. No Way and so did the guy before. That's a weird funds Xueping because there's not enough we're GONNA look at this list and I'm still dating this person. Then my pro and con good those two relationships blow up in the same way different ways. Different ways different ways but creative both times. And don't you just you know I honestly it's going to sound disingenuous but I do appreciate when something ends horribly in a in a creative way because one that just either fizzles or there's like a stupid once you text messages leading up to it. You know not quite as memorable but it still sucks the same amount. You know what I mean I just I. I like something to remember the bucket even if it's really bad not answering because I'm just thinking about all the times they had to go through my Rolodex and be like have I had anything and then I thought of them. All what what do you think about right now. I literally was like thought of every relationship I've ever had in one moment. Black Stripe running the show. Really give you something to think about in the drive home. Let's see most of mine typically have ended with either me just getting being like being completely like. Oh okay. Yeah you're gone now and you're dead and like like like not actually like we have to kill kill you brain and you're so surprised because you're like Oh this was like a thing that felt really positive and good but maybe a little manic trick trick of the ring especially but those. Don't those all of those ones that they start Manic Kinda feel manic. They feel like I don't know like two people sort of grasping very tightly or something. No it's not the proper speed. Yeah Yeah it's weird those those never go well but then also had the have. You had the opposite. I've had it where it like goes very slowly and steadily and it just develops into a person you'd never really want to hang Out with I think when I'm when I tend to be slow with like or like labeling of commitment and stuff it's just like me not operating truthful to myself Mike I like deep down inside. You know you don't like them but there's enough to like hang out you like we do like we can both smoke weed. I can watch movies and that's cool. Yeah but I know down the road and that's why I think you're going slow driving at. I think you want somewhere in between I want something driving. I really WANNA see a person but I also want them to have a busy enough life to not be able to see me five days a week. Yes please don't yeah you know. I think it's like for me. My version of that is like break control. It's like you know you goes fast as you want as long as you can pump the brake and have a conversation conversation at least check in and be like this is pretty rapid. I know like my current relationship by me and I think like did start pretty fast asked and I think both of us were really convinced that it was like good and we're having a good time but we were also really able to acknowledge like this feels feels very quick but I'm okay with that It just feels natural and it just feels were at like. That's so much better than the manic version of of just like we're going to the moon and we're never gonNA talk about like what we are what we're doing because it's just so right now and it's so perfect or whatever. Yeah how often. How did you start seeing her? And then how often DC now see each other now we would probably we have have different lifestyles where she works like a more traditional job. I'm so we were just doing like the weekends And then I would say like I probably we see each other probably every weekend unless there's just like somebody's out of town or something like that and we usually stay for at least a couple of nights out of the weekend and then depending on like schedules or if she has the day off like allstate over like probably one or two two nights a week now seems very reasonable. Yeah I really like my time in just with her work and stuff like it doesn't really make sense for her to come to my house a lot and I pay for my apartment and I'm just like I want to be at home and she's like yeah it makes sense. It's also really healthy economy. If I feel like back so fast tractor resentment baby can you think of because I'm trying to think about it myself because I feel that my relationship. It started quickly not fast but not furious and that were were. Were checking in and going like you want that you don't want it to be to measuring up top I'm trying to think if I can name a difference because I've had the fast and the furious. Yeah Yeah where it starts and you're going like instead of checking in and being reasonable. You're checking in like this is crazy right like we're being so crazy. which can you think of like a key? The difference between the I mean I think for fundamentally for me. It's just the feelings to back up the actions. Yeah do you have something. I think something a little bit here. I don't know if this is a satisfying answer. But but I think it the actual differences that both of you like each other that is satisfying. Yeah it's it's there's always going to be. I I think because other has imbalance of some kind right and no one speaking about it. They're using you for security there codependent. Don't like you enough you. You don't WanNa be alone. It's an imbalance. It's almost like one person is Trying to fill a void at least but it sounds like in this. You genuinely in both guys relationship. Sounds like you both Gen- genuinely like one another and you're not have. You're not dating in order to be fixed or healed or there's no voids. I don't think so but I do think that it can be confusing. I think the reason why a lot of things start fast and fizzle out because it feels like Oh my God we like each other so much instead of it purely being. Oh yeah that's true. That's what happened. We both really liked each other and we kept kept doing it. And that's why we've been married for forty years a lot of times. It's like we do really like each other. Oh we re but what you're realizing is a we both do In have the same taste in movies and are both getting out of really horrific relationship situations where one person didn't get enough affection. You know one person didn't get enough validation and you can go like oh I'm happy to have sex with you more than you're having before and the other prints like I'm happy to tell you you're tractive and Nice more than you've been getting before and that adds up to something that approximates relationship and then next thing you know it's been seven eight weeks six. Yeah I think I don't WanNa talk to you every so you're talking about timing essentially then correct like it's almost like that's timing related or no. It could be a timing thing. I mean you gotta be some theater. Random his ation. There's like a magic math equation that I'm not. I'm not like getting right now but I do think that whether or not it's timing. I think he can feel like that. I mean I've been in things where people are like. I can't be something right now. And and and A. and I've done the same thing and I think after a couple of those and after like a couple of years with that stuff about them like I don't really know how much I believe leaving that I think it's just are you both looking for the same things and can you provide them for each other and other enough to keep that going because I think once it's all it's not that the spark fades but for me it's like when the initial heart Emoji over your face like dissipates a little little bit. Are you left with. Oh no I can't sleep next to you freak me out too much or oh I want to keep doing this for good or you're you're a valuable partner you push me. You helped me like you communicate you see me in a way as opposed to. Oh I don't like this. I don't like that. I don't like that he left with things that so you want to keep you around despite something fading and being like a foundation of other potential positives or do you just want to bail because it's not chill anymore. Yeah and I think that's where the seven-week three-month four-month things I think that's why they can. Peter out is because you you you have convinced yourself. This isn't just I mean. I think there's almost something more honest to a purely casual entanglement that lasts that long long then like a fast and hot and heavy. You know it's two and a half months thing where you're like this is my partner now and then yeah I think at least for me in those like eight weaker. By the time I wake up at week eight. I'm like Oh oh I don't like who this person is. That's what it's been for me. It's like there. What makes them up as a person? I don't like who they are. It's not even and therefore then leads me not being attracted or whatever where it would have been fine as a casual thing but then then as a partnership the ship unlike. Oh had I gone to nine this no this person in like a legitimate way. There's no way I would have dated this person so but you can skip that pretty easily by but also I guess it just takes time to get to know someone also know you can be passive. You can be like passively avoided. You can be aggressively avoidance. There's a lot of different ways to be like. We're so busy. Why would we ever talk? Line transit yeah the like avoidance but also attached like I found myself in the middle of a four-month or meeting somebody who's parents and coming out the other side being like. Why did I just do that? Yeah why have a Christmas together we gotta get out of here. Yeah I dated in the past remember I I had had the meet my parents and I was just just like that was just like you're not here but you're you're there on the time line and you've met their parents because they are super stoked for them. I'm to meet me and like I was like well. It's been so it's been this long since I met them and par for the course and I like did it instead of being like. Oh what do I want to do like. I was in a relationship so I had to do these steps. And that's how you be in a relationship instead of being like. Oh stop but just. I didn't have that moment of self awareness. I was just there but it took doing the thing to have that moment. Hey everybody hi. I'M JACOB BY SAKE I'm the host of. I don't WanNa talk about fight club anymore. A new podcast on head gum. Were I attempt to watch. Fight Club for seventy two hours straight. That's right folks. Six now sleep no leaving my home. I'm a man trying to lose his mind so come along for the journey and check out. I don't WanNa talk about fight club anymore. Have you guys found that when you're younger or when you were younger you you analyzed last and and we're more willing to jump into a relationship had on. I think when I was younger I was like into into I was in two longer relationships. And then in my mid twenties like took huge break yeah and was like Oh like I spent four hour and a half maybe closer to five years in two separate relationships was very positive one was very very negative and just kind of left me like not wanting that at all and then gave me space to like figure out who I was and what I wanted to do in like learn how to be alone and then you know that that gets old that gets old eventually and you have to try again. Oh yeah that's exactly what I did. I had like a year long thing and then two year thing and then yeah around like twenty five a twenty twenty-five I I was out of a two year relationship Asian ship going. I don't know what am I. What's going on your bad boy's side of the Pendulum Achy? Took everyone's bad boy. I'd think I was a little bit like delayed though because I think twenty five was like sad boy time because I thought I was going to be husband at twenty five but that never came up but I was in a very serious relationship that ended and then I was newly yet twenty five and going. Okay I guess I just like I guess I guess people hook up and they and they and they get javert drunk at parties and the and that wasn't that wasn't the move like I don't think like I was really convincing anybody that that's like a speed. I had like experimented with it for a little while and then kind of I think my bad boy face was like third thirty one thirty three maybe really weird kind of where it doesn't really make sense sends every four years you know. Look you just sort of reinvents. It's you know. What fees are you in right now? I I don't know what I'm doing I I don't know what I'm doing doing I I was. You know I was dating someone and then I ended abruptly and so I don't know what I'm doing at all. I actually have no idea what phase as I'm in you need. No not. Yeah I don't know it will. It will happen when it happens. I don't know you know I think. Yeah I don't feel just GonNa just GONNA do. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I don't know I'm I feel open and available and have no I have no idea what I'm drink. Do you feel fun not today in particular but it's also because I don't feel about well today by no I guess I don't feel particularly fun like I sometimes can kinda throw like throw it all away and be like who cares but I I do care I I feel. I'm not invested in any one in particular but I do feel like I feel like I'm kind of bowed out of casual encounters and I. It doesn't really serve me or fulfill me in any way shape or form. I also feel like I have a lot to give so. I don't feel particularly fun but I feel like ready ready available for something that makes sense. Yeah that's a thing you'll be attracted to somebody you can offer you fun too. They're fun yeah the feeling fun right now rob. They're fun vampire. They're fun you can give them something and then they can have fun in. That's like part you know I. I think it is like in those things should shift that you can't give the same thing forever. Never have to find new things to give new ways to receive but do you think People have ever been like a fun vampire for you. Because you're very fun person. I talk about that. Yeah I think a lot of my relationships are are like women who just kind of like want to be around my energy and will exploit that and then I the ems person and exploit that more and they can exploit me for for like validation and like Maybe social circumstance. Because if I'm dating this guy that I get to go be around these people sure or he'll make me feel good and he'll validate me and he's he's an artistic person who operates at this tier level and you know that's GonNa make me feel good and I can get advice and he can help my stuff like Oh I think I've experienced different versions of kind of all those that feel very lake. Just vampires sucky Meteo majorly especially with. It's like people who are maybe not as creative or as Like savvy in that arena will find people who like just walked back and don't have it or have hints of it and want more of it and it's interesting that feels very bad doesn't it. I don't particularly like it but I think I'm not super tuned to noticing it right away because the type of person I am it does feel good when somebody comes to me and says that they like me or gives me that good attention that I'm more focused on that than than what they then like what their drive actually is and I like to assume the best of people where it's just like no this is just the the law of attraction. You know I'm you're you and you like me in and then you I've gotten better at it and I think like took a few relationships gypsy like type of person this is. I know the type of person that sucks me dry. They are not getting blue all the sudden but yeah I feel like I've gotten better and better at it which you have to do. I think the for me the more I get to know myself and I I I know my feelings things I can feel that better. It's almost like it's less factual more feeling related for me like I sometimes after an encounter with someone even like a friendship. I'll leave and I'll be like WHOA. I am so tired like it's like I feel like I've actually had the life force taken out of. Yeah and that. Yeah that happens a lot. It's bad it's I mean we. I mean even like in a in a friendship way. It's hard to kind of come to terms with either. I don't think this is going to be the friendship with legs or this is a long standing friendship. That feels like we're coming to the end and I think when that's a romantic prospect effect. It usually I mean that's the like fast and furious for me where I where it starts and then it's like zero to one hundred and then all of a sudden I'm like I don't wait a minute. I don't know if I like where this is going necessarily even if it started out like Super Fun and interesting and like the energy feels good like your. I mean I'm thinking he's specifically over thing like a year ago. That was not just like less than pleasant. It was. Oh this person's not being nice to me which it was because I was like wait? A minute aren't or nice. Yeah I think that was kind of the the definitive end of my of any any like a bad wife as I might have had or any sort of like I think when I am or have been on one I attract a certain kind of energy whether it's like friendship or romantic and someone had picked up on it. been like this could be interesting. And then I- reciprocated and then very quickly. I was like well hang on. Wait what you're being mean but you're actually. This isn't a joke. This isn't fun. Yeah but you've learned your what your your self worth like not to be too cliche. No please is like that's you realizing. Oh I'm worth more than that because I think maybe points in times when you haven't been able to pull that parachute at least for me. I wasn't enable to remind myself that like oh I deserve better than somebody who is so insecure. They won't let me go do my own thing. I'm like oh no. Oh this is what I get because I'm this way right. Look this way or I You know don't have the confidence that other people have words like this is what I deserved to get this sort word of relation to have a relationship. This is the only type I'm going to get and you lack mindset like and if you if you don't like yourself how the fuck are going to advocate for yourself off deserve better. Yeah I I think there's I mean I think the appeal is limited. But I do. I did that and I know other people do that. And it's because is it like it's role playing. It's it's not bad. The cost playing is a bad way. It's it's like role playing. She is indulging in some of depravity of European. Shoot a piece of shit like well. Let's we're just going to get some trouble over you're like like why do I feel completely hollow inside. And why am I getting someone who's not responding to wait just happen. Where did the Hawass six weeks ago? Yeah Yeah it's wild. I don't quite get caught up in any of that anymore. I don't fuck with people who who don't don't respect me. I know why do I know immediately. I'm like I'll go on one day and just back. nope and also is very clear to me today. Also once you've once you square so you want your squared away with yourself and you know what you're worth is like we just said and also once you know what you don't like maybe getting what you want like you know I feel you like for not the first time ever but for the first time in a long time I'm in a relationship. The field's not just nice moment but just consistently overall this is great and this is what I wanted it into perspective where I go. Oh I can't believe I put up with treated myself like this about someone else. Treat me that way EH. It does feel very clear. It's it's interesting sometimes out. We'll talk to people on here. We'll talk to our friends and they're so much negotiating sheeting and trying to figure out what's happening in some other. You know what I mean like. We hear a lot of thought. It's very weird when you get into something stable and healthy and you're like what the fuck fuck. Yeah a real healthy relationship does not look like that. What would you not agreeing to terms your co creating? Yes us when you're not you're not signing a contract you're coming up with the terms together. Yeah I feel like it's the sort of what I've I've experiences like when I was faced with You know a problem or an issue in my current relationship it was like let's figure this out as a team and I'm gonNA explain to you based on my way I was was raised or like my trauma and how I deal with stuff. Why it's an issue right now? I'm looking to overcome that but in order to do so we have to do. XYZ zere like. Here's the problem. Here's why it's a problem. I would like to work on that together because I feel blank as opposed to. You can't go do that thing or you're not allowed to do this or I need this with an. I can't explain why there's no amount it you. You have to have enough awareness with yourself. But how did you get to that place of being able to speak to someone like that. I know very few people who can be like. Hey this is something I'd like to create with you. I don't know very many people who do that I mean a lot of that was like from from her side and and just she's a very good communicator. I think she's a better communicator. About feelings than I am and so I kinda like let her take the lead on that and at the end of the day. There's somebody that I wanna be with so I'm willing to try. And it's not anything crazy or unbalanced store Like it's not like they're operating on their bad bad boys scale there on one or anything. It's just like no. Here's an issue and here's how it affects these things like. Let's try and figure figure it out and learn like I'm learning that that level of communication is cool and I'm trying to do that with mount stuff where I'm like. Well this makes me feel this way. And here's why and maybe this is how we can fix it or this. How we can address it or If I you know if something bothers me try and be like get to the bottom of it and it's ultimately just like resentment. What am I trying to say like resentment blocking or like what's the word that I'm thinking of I'm resembling blocking works? That works if that works. I'm going to stick with the invention. Research Prevention Yeah. Yeah I always say that where there's resentment there can be no romance like. That's my theory. I'm like you could see when people have resentment is so palpable any relationship. But yeah if you can always be getting out of resentment slash working being through that you're going to have a great. I think the the the code like to go back to your question to crack it is like willing- willingness and and into like emotional intelligence to be like I'm not jumping myself out. This is an an unbalanced compromise. Yeah and you also have to have a drive to WanNa pursue that person and usually that like a different person was like maybe brought the same issue you with a different energy in a different attraction for my side. It could be a thing where I'd be like I'm out dude now. That doesn't feel like my problem. Yeah Yeah but with this where I'm like I. I know it's just the way everything's balanced where I am where it was like a very obtainable thing to talk through and figure out together I love that. Willingness is key that is so key both sides being totally willing It's also it doesn't hurt to both be sensitive people in like one person I am going to be a new balance in terms of other an amazing communicator. And I'm still learning but I think I see and hear so many Gosh especially especially lately I feel like I hear a lot about not strong silent type people but imbalance relationships where one person communicates a lot and one person is actually literally a quiet person and they split up. Because it's like you're talking to a brick wall or some or your brick while being talked doc that yeah I would say. That's the silent person's problem but to me it's like I know couples that don't communicate and there's Z. Z.. No matter how many great pictures they together there's no fucking way they're happy. Yeah like end goal and result old going to sleep at night without resentment. I don't think it's possible not talking. I don't know how you even have a relationship at all and not talk. Doc How do you get their drugs. Yes that's true. Lean addiction rugs. A LOT OF TV lack of awareness. Traction you're right. There are a lot of ways to get a lot of the like the Romance Opium Den. Yeah That's a good way to. That's a nice way to put it. But Yeah I think if you if you if you replace the thing you actually need with some heightened amount of something else where it's like. Yeah Yeah we hey man like the chemistry just there and it's like great. What do you guys talk about when it's done only got it just never be done? I find I find a lot of people who have nothing to talk about just talking about other people gossip. I've known so many couples who are Mike. All they're doing is talking shit about other people. How boring yeah if I yeah I? I don't know if this is bad. I don't know how this is perceived by my partners I would never know but I can tend to be like if I don't have anything to say or like an idea to terrific on like just quiet sometimes now sam you know. I think there's a huge difference between being occasionally quiet a AKA not filling the space with nothing garbage. Just oh you know reading billboards while you're driving versus. I don't talk at all or you WanNa talk about your feelings. I'm GonNa just sit there incomplete. Paralysis Alison how or something. Yeah and then you leak bubbling up unions. Can't say anything because it's too hard because you can't let that wall. I can be like you where I can be quiet. Sometimes you know I had partners get mad at me for it. That's interesting his terrible feelings operating being in neutral right. Yeah I know feelings. I'm like I don't have any negative or positive. I'm just quiet mad. Always every man receives quiet. Hi It as angry. I wish people could. I wish they could see me as a baby. And as a toddler I was incredibly quiet. Just a quiet person. I was quiet most of my life the owning my own the only time. I've been outspoken. As as an adult only child middle child middle child of to alcohol like to addicts so quiet. Quiet guy you know and I think it's actually an asset sometimes to not add to the noise first example. I'm going to stop talking from the rest of the bold. That's not because we basically come to the end of the show participate via laughter Jacob this has been really really fantastic I feel like we covered a lot of ground. I really almost defaulted to mark Maryland. Good you feel good. That's what he says that the every day because your friend of mine and I I love talking to you. I had a great time. I mean you and I have had a lot of conversations about romance in in dating reunited it yeah I think you and I are similarly keeled or at least see the world in the same way where we can laugh about the same tragedies that come along with this man has kids I I will tell you I feel like I'm thinking of I dunno specific times but I feel like more than twice. He has gotten me over the past three years. Receiving a text reading a text making face like reacting to it by myself and then like one person over. He'll walk five go. What's going on he? That's amazing you're you witness people people and you're very good at it. It's not just that you're looking. It's that you know and I think that's probably really. What makes you a good partner? I can't You know the INS and outs of your relationship but I feel like as much as you know you. You think she you know she might be more in touch with her emotions than you're communication or whatever I think you gotta be better than than you're giving yourself credit for because I definitely get that from you. Now we conclude are episodes by having our guest pick a number between one through five and asking them a question that corresponds to that number. I feel like now I stevie. Don't I don't freak out now. We've had a very unbroken streak of stevie trying to guess the number and get it. Our guest has chosen. But I do think that this was a pretty connected naked conversation. I think we're kind of on the same page so I'm going to try to guess what number you're gonNA. I'm GonNa Guess what I think we're GonNa see what number you're going to say you've been wrong. One hundred percent of the one hundred percent. I've never so here's what I'm GONNA do. I'M GONNA guess the number that she's going to guess I'm going to guess okay but it might not be the actual number Dave. I'm going to show you the number under the table with my hand. Okay yeah okay. I think she thinks I'm going to say three. Oh Okay Yeah. So she broke the streak. You broke the streak. Why did you? How'd you used one hand so it had to be under five any? You're most likely going to pick three right in the middle I've never picked before you've never picked three before with the. Here's the thing questions so we only have find question only was ever going to be. Can I was assuming through ten. I don't know why yeah. I didn't listen but that's about myself and then I said I thought okay. Great this is so so you broke the streak. I'm yet I've yet to break the streak you know you. You broke the street kind of no I picked a number and you pick the right now. This is it you got to give yourself more credit this time. Okay the the industry has done. Maybe be nice you've done. Guys allergies are raging and as a result all right I mean this was such a huge buildup to what is it pretty mild question but honestly it is something I'd like to know what's your number three is. What is your favorite snack? Oh Wow what is my favorite Britt Snack Can I do a sweet and Savory yes please affair yes yeah My favorite sweet snack is reese's peanut Butter Cup. Oh Oh yeah and I think it's awesome a very good the much more than frozen I mean more than than Thaad much more preferred i. I will eat both happily and I probably get the same level of satisfaction. But I think that little extra crunch or that little snap you get from the Caesar's now oh question in particular about these when they have holiday versions like the Easter Egg or Christmas Island. Yeah you prefer do. Do you prefer the holiday ones because of the ratios different. Okay yeah me too bylaw. Peanut butter is much better. I agree EG yes S. H. Valentine's Day Line right do a heart for sure. There's a heart issue heart not okay well. Savory Savory Snack I don't need I feel like I'm a guy that just like floats from meal to meal like I'm the I'm not in a lot of snacks. Probably probably like some chips with some really good hot salsa ooh so like tortilla chips yeah spicy spicy not to rip off Nick Weicker but I am a bit of a heat seeker. Oh Wow wow okay. He seeker girlfriend recently was like I think you should stop eating so much spicy food. You have a more sensitive stomach than you're her. Admitting I simply can't I like I love the heat. I love you get a little high. It's like a little tiny trip. Yeah but okay to that and I just want to know I not asking you to name like give me a sculpture level in terms of number this is a school the level as it measures the hot west. I honestly thought we're talking suddenly about rory scovill and I was like what does he have to do with our podcast. But honestly I was a great guy you know. It's just a references. How hot food is but do you really really go for? It goes pepper. Are we how me Oh my God. Why days the chicken? I've done the reaper. Wow that's hard. That's extra hotted. JALEN's I've been like I went to Thailand and was like. Yeah make it how you make an like have been absolutely blast out on my brains. You feel a little bit. Hi How long did take you to come down from that. It's usually like a ten minute. Fifteen minutes SORTA zone. Yeah that's on a bite like some of this stuff you have one bite and you're just going. Yeah anytime. When I tried Jalen's it was a bite and and I couldn't I couldn't imagine eating a whole big old chicken? No where are you at scovell school level. I I mean I don't really know the the the the numbers just through ten. I'm a baby three. I don't know I I I like I like a little bit of the heat in the salsa but Okay here's this'll tell Ya. I was eating breakfast the other day. And they were at a diner and they had two hot sauces next to each other and one was like triple x hot. Habanero Bobby Niro in one was just like regular hot. I'm by myself I don't care and I I took a bite dipped some There was like a breakfast potato in the extra sure. Hot took a big old bite. Now I hate to stop. This breakfast is different. The Hash Brown. Yeah Okay Yeah not the not the preferred the Brown. I got the potato wedges. Visualize it I'm so sorry to derail talking like Like French fry wedges are are we talking little triangles Rangel. What is call these? Were you know they weren't great. I'm not going to name the place but they really let me down is was fantastic. The best ones that they've never just say what fucking restaurant or was okay. Oh God I got no place vision. I saw somebody just tweeted that. They're like how embarrassing to wait in line on Saturday. This was last Thursday. I had some time to myself and it's a breakfast. I exercise the thought I'd earned it on millions and I took a bite of this. Whatever Habanero Venero Triple X.? Whatever full on coughing fit in front of the kitchen staff and they thought it was a little bit and you know what I was so on a scale of one to ten scovill Royko level? I'm a little little bit now. Jacob where can people find you. You guys can find me on twitter and instagram at Jacobite Sake and check out. I don't want to talk about fight club anymore. On anywhere you get podcasts apple podcast network right on the head go network you can check it out there. What kind of guests we talking? We're talking Nicole buyer. We're talking big `Grande Bath Boys. Alana Johnston who Katie Delaney The hits keep coming Zachary on Devon field. Yeah okay so it's a stack lineup stuttered lineup and we can listen in order like in along the time line of you slowly. Losing your practice starts at our zero. Oh and then goes all the way to our seventy-two okay so listeners. You've just this is. This is a rational thoughtful sensitive. Wonderful man you can listen to this show and he starts. It's basically what you've just experienced him as and then at the end he's lost his mind so I think that's a pretty good commercial for that. Check out that pod fall who everywhere. Thank you so much time guys. Thank you bye pretty great. Dane told me he he was going to be great. I always believe you when you tell me. Someone's going to be great because you've never failed at this but he is really wonderful. What a wonderful Having never met him before like probably a lot of our listeners. I I was like so pleasantly surprised by how I hate to say this and I think he would probably hate to hear this. How whoa key? It's he's I don't I don't know if you would hate. I mean the word is I think burned and I think I think we do now saying 'cause it's like what encapsulates woke without calling someone woke I think I don't know emotionally intelligent. Yes emotionally intelligent. He showed up to the conversation and he's shown up to the conversation in general he's he's like he's involved man. Yeah and I think that that is different than woke because there's nothing performance of about it. He distinction alive and up top. I was I. was you know I was being cheeky. Calling him a bad boy but there is. There's something about him like we're we're hardy. Friends were comedy friends. I see him around. He's he's he's very very funny actor very funny performer. Great improviser and that's how I would describe it right. He has edge edge and it's also the reason that for a long time I refused for. I mean I've been meditating for over ten years but for while I didn't want to meditate because I was like I was afraid it was gonna get rid of my edge really. Yeah I really thought that would it doesn't it doesn't Your edge stays. It'll stay interesting. What what I want to talk about that for a second again i? I'm not I'm I know I know it's easy to change but I'm a bad meditators. Okay what I don't know if I don't know what I'm afraid of. But I think just I have a hard time emptying my mind as someone with like diagnosed. Add How how do you get into the rhythm of it and how do you feel? It's benefited. You Oh my Gosh It will I started getting into the rhythm by literally I today. I do transcendental meditation which is twenty minutes of Meditating in the morning and twenty minutes in the afternoon so I do forty minutes of meditation every single day. That's a lot it's a lot but it doesn't feel like a lot and when you start seeing the benefits it stops feeling like you don't even negotiate it anymore. It's just like this is. This helps me so much so I just do it right when I wake up so I don't even have to set a time or anything because you just wake up. I let the dogs out and I go sit and meditate agitate for twenty minutes and then I meditate every day at three PM I set a timer for it. That's how I got the rhythm of it but before I was doing. TM which is very easy to space and time and the benefits are. I can't even tell you like it. Changed it regulated my blood pressure which used to be very low. It also proven to do that. Tim In particular I feel like I can pause like when I get an email. That's just like insane or get overwhelmed. Like I have have like the ability to pause which I never did before. TM Like I. I mean and also has given me a community of people like minded people who practice the same thing mindfulness and it's pretty incredible But before that I did an APP called inside timer This is not an ad for them but it was my favorite meditation APP. Because you could kind of just pick and choose what you were feeling like if you want to do a five minute meditation on mindfulness. If you want to do a ten minute meditation on love like they had such a variety and for for some reason. That APP really spoke to me. I really like that up I know a lot of people whose head space I just don't like the same voice being used over and over again. I like to pick and choose the people who I liked. You know. That's what I tried when I was doing i. It's got to be okay at it and I felt like I plateaued kind of early and then I just stopped doing it. So to give this insight timer thing a shot It's really wonderful. It really changed my relationship to meditation. That's very cool and this is not a trust me. If you've heard any of our sponsors sponsor Adam. There are a lot less organic than this. So that's that this isn't that they are not sponsoring so that is all a bit a bit of attention. But yeah I I do like the many The many speeds speed and vibes of of Jacob. I Love I wasn't I wasn't exaggerating when I say that he's he sees me when we're out if I'm in a certain mood just we also a new a lot of the same people but if he's like what's going on man I just he's he's someone who I mean. He would be an amazing therapist because he's good at making me. Tell him things he it was the first out of. I don't know how many episodes of our podcast we've done. He was the first guest to ever ask me how I felt. It said to me. How did that make you feel Mr have? We had a guest that has asked is he cares he cares and he's very emotionally intelligent. ZSA and president. He seems very prison. Honestly it's a very I don't know what work he's he's done to get there if he's just always been like that but it is a cool vibe to have an edge. You maintain to have sort of a reputation of being cool and I guess I don't really use that term lightly but like by by I'd say yeah it's like the first word I would use to describe him but he also shows up for the conversation listens to you ask you how you feel. It's great and yeah I really conjoined talking to him and it's great that he's in a great relationship that makes them feel good. I know and if you haven't been convinced yet. Listen to his podcast. Yes see yeah listen to listen to him. Go slowly insane. I I got a little accountability. Check in for myself after Zor about a month and a half two months after you have an intake when you have a personal trainer and they make you step on a weird sophisticated thing thing that scale that tells you what your body mass index and all that stuff is which felt incredibly By invasive is the right word but I did not know if I want to know all of that stuff about myself the first time ever. I've got my I got a little bit of a an update. As of this morning. I've gained four pounds sounds of muscle. Congratulations that's incredible. That's hard to do I get. My trainer seemed very impressed. And I I will say they. I don't feel at different noticed some slight changes in my body but for the most part It just feels like there's still so a lot of progress I'm still excited to keep going Incredible and I'm slowly learning to be a little bit less hard on myself with breath. What I eat what I put my body and what might kind of like a physical output like? I am good at. I've been good at going. Three fourths of those five times a week to the gym. But if I miss two days in a row I've I'm getting better at being nicer to myself and knowing that like it's working a little bit even if incrementally incrementally you know it's it's a very cool thing that's a great update. Yeah I yeah have no real update date for you in regard to that I still doing hot yoga and taking walks but just put you. You're a you're a fitness to the for saying that. Yes I am on yourself yet. Here's the thing I'm never off. I Love I love how to work out. I never get off track because I like. How feels it every day? No I don't I don't I don't have a rhythm. Oh I don't have anything everyday check in and I go. Do you WanNa work out today. And then I do if I want to and I don't if I want to and that's it every single day I ask myself what I'd like today. It's a very cool relationship to have with with your body with fitness nicest fluid and it doesn't feel like there's any pressure you know what I know one more thing for. Yeah I went looking for the just I mean I know I know. It's gone at this point but I went looking for the the sketch that we we did together. I don't know where it is. It's gone whoever the person who made it took it offline. I don't know why maybe it was just too funny. But that's crazy you can't get anything off line. We know I've asked people take things. They don't internal search for both of us on Youtube. I found some some old stuff that you did a it was so funny. Oh thank you I mean whatever I know I know you're funny do together but you know what a weird I just having a weird little the trip with myself going got to do a comedy show or is GonNa have to do sketches the other day and. I don't even know if I WANNA do this anymore. That was such a huge part of my life and I realize it's probably was a big part of your life to a huge. I used to do Improv all the time I did sketches all the time Still Open doing. I'm but just in a different royal probably I think so too. Yeah had an idea to do a live show that I might try to launch soon. But it's very not what I ever would have guessed that I would be doing because yeah I'm excited about a lot of stuff it's been it's been a good couple of weeks and I have about a month left in my current job so asked me in four weeks feeling probably tasing around and stare at the wall. You'll be doing creative things. I'm I'm coining this year. We've got some big twenty twenty energy. ooh ooh okay. We're GONNA make stuff and do what we want. All right. I WANNA I wanNA keep that big twenty twenty eight hundred going up listeners. You can reach us. You can call our hotline. It's it's Two one three four five eight five three six. That's two three four five eight five two three six. You can email us at Auburn everything potted gmail.com anything anything. Drop us a line. We've you know we've got some some good messages rolling in it makes us feel a wanted end observed nothing and we thought you were going to say observed surprise things that come out of my mouth just shocking especially when I'm on autopilot. What else? Oh yeah rate reviewing subscribed you can find us on apple podcast. You can find on stitcher sure you can find us on dribbler. That's when I made up I can find us on Peter. Peter Piper lister or a clip clipper quicker. Yeah Clippers are really fun. It's a really fun new social media platform that we're both on. We do your clips sir. We do twelve seconds logs together and taken off yet but I'm hopeful anyway guys that's all a bunch is silly global shit from us but thank you so much for listening and we will see you or you will hear us next week. We probably won't see you but if we we do come say hi this is the sausage is made. It's all staying in. I'm making a single edit this week. No Way Man. Okay thanks for listening to goes by. I Have you ever encountered and unexplained Harry bipedal Hominid in the woods. Have you received telepathic. The paddock messages from an unidentified aerial phenomenon. It so then you need to listen to big collectors club I'm Michael Macmillan and Bryce Johnson together with super producer rally break we make up the bigfoot collectors. That's right every week. We talked to actors COMEDIANS writers and paranormal experts about their personal paranormal histories and share stories stories of High Strangeness. Like the time when we talked to Craig Ferguson about the Loch Ness Monster and win a C.. Which told him he had raven magic or the time I asked pitch perfect? Santa Camper opinion on Cattleman relations past guests have included. Rachel Bloom Jen Kirkman Paul Tomkins podcast Goldway and more. 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THE PROCESS: Part 3 (Research, Style References, & Brainstorming)  Episode 089

Design Speaks

42:05 min | 1 year ago

THE PROCESS: Part 3 (Research, Style References, & Brainstorming) Episode 089

"Have I ever told you that I almost like I almost never use Google? Yeah. You've told me that. But I don't get it like part of music. Just like why though it's like when people in conversation have a question like, I wonder how old or Clooney is right now we have this. Google. Let me tell you. Welcome to design speaks this. Lovely Polk is brought by graphic design. Geek and a regular even being thank you ain't unknown design. We're here to chat about music, pop culture. Cool places, basically, whatever we feel is relevant. Hey, guys. I'm brandy. See and Michelle and say we're continuing our series on the process on the cross the process capital to capital P the process while paper toilet, paper teepee brand new process. And today, we're gonna be talking about the research phase. Yeah. So deeper research on concept direction on collecting style. References. So we're going to cover research and collecting style references today. And before we get to that. I'm going to share a song with me. I know like do not listen to music. I do listen to music, unfortunately. And fortunately for me, I've only been listening to one album this entire time like for over a month at this point. It's it's ridiculous. I have been in love with Maggie Rogers new album heard it in a past life. She has the song that I heard pretty much she she released it before the album was released, but it didn't get as big as light on his well received. I don't know if that is it wasn't as pushed as much the or as a single she sang it on SNL. So that's the first time I heard it and like I just super resonate with it. It's called falling water. So take a listen. There. It is those beats I know I I love it. There is a time with the first two weeks this album released that I I just woke up with this song. Stuck in my head? I be in my cubicle at work in the quiet. Just start singing the song and realize everybody can hear me. Hear me and not humming to. So. I'd start singing out loud with words. Not humming. It's just so. Catchy. And what I really really love about this song as honesty, I think as a creative. We all really want to be honest and raw a, but sometimes it's hard. So I the the lyric authenticity takes work. Yes. The lyric. I never loved you in the way that I like that's hard to admit. Yeah. That's like saying, I'm sorry. I was a jerk. And I didn't give this all trying my best. Yeah. But I realize it, and so I just love this song. Reminds me of the sleeping at last song that he wrote for one any Graham that any grants suggests folks to all those yesterday one starts off with this like hold on like it feels like you're saying, oh my gosh. Hold on. And she does that in this song. And I don't think related in it. Yeah. I don't think that's like related at all. But I love that. It just feels like I need to hold on. Yeah. It's good. That's all right. I like some good dots into it. Yeah. I think this is one of the ones I like the best. I I listened to the album briefly like as a once through. And I think this is one of the ones that I liked the best. It's so good. It's got the it's got the Florence feel. It does that's probably the Stevie nicks few now all the things all the good things. All the rock and women. Yes, today, we are going to be talking about hatred on our patriarch not research, but we will get to that. This is just a little blurb to remind you that we have a patriot patriotic. Dot com slash design speaks and you can go check out all of the fun little things that you can get for donating monthly. We recently just got another one. So we're really really excited for all the people coming on a dollar to. I think are most is fifty dollars. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just monthly so a dollar you guys. That's not a lot. And we're so we're not it's not a lot out of your Bank account. But it's a lot to us. It's a lot to us. And so we're just so thankful for everyone who's jumped on board, thus far we're really excited to keep this go, and yeah. So that's that's our little blurb patriot dot com slash design speaks thank and now onto the research bit of the process that we're going through. Okay. So I don't know. I guess I always say like, oh, this is the most important part. But so this is one of the most important parts, they're all really important in their own ways. But you know, it's like word map is super important. But you can't do the word map without the brief. You obviously can't. Have a brief without some sort of client meeting, but in order to get to your most unique concepts, and ideas and executions, the word map, and the research are the two biggest portions of this. So the research can can have like a lot of things involved in it. Once you've got your concept. So we're going to I'm basically gonna focus all of this on Kelly's album. So he's going to kind of be my example, moving forward. Okay. I'm last episode. I talked about how I got to his concept, and I talked about a lot of others that I did in my class. But because this one's one that I saw through from beginning to end, and I have notes on all the process of research, and all that I wanted to be able to bring that to show you guys auditorium show. You we talked about that last time. So research, what is what is the sound like to you like when I say you need to research, Michelle. What what do you think that like that entails? Well, not take me out of this. And how you know like what I do. Well to me research means I need to go onto Google and figure out what the heck this is all about. That's that's research to me. I guess I could try out books, but I feel like Google is just the most easily accessible, so okay? I don't have a whole encyclopedia set anymore. I don't know. But I have -pedia Britannica discontinued like last year. And I was sad. Yeah. That is like I've been saving my whole life to buy one of those that whole set of clearance. I don't know. I probably just like purchase a subscription for my kids online. There are still online. That's not physical. See sad part continue research to me is getting on Google and finding out more without it being just Wikipedia. Have I ever told you that I almost like I almost never use Google? Yeah. You've told me that. But I don't get it like part of just like why though it's right there like when people in conversation have a question like, oh, I wonder how old George Clooney is right now we have this Google. Let me tell you. Yeah. So so I make I make a point to almost use the internet as a last as a last step. So I'm just going to list off the things that I use in that kind of go into into some of them a little bit deeper. So I look at books I like books that I have I have a good variety. You can see them all behind me. I have. I have books on color. I have books on art. I have books on photography. I have books on graffiti. So you've had to become a collector of books to you've basically had to start collecting books in order to further your research process process process books on color books on photography books on wall murals books on book covers. Yeah. So I even have this one that I picked up at the Getty villa museum in in California. It's called symbols and allegories in art, which basically looks into like if there's a cat in an old renaissance painting. What does it mean cat represent because you know, in in classical art and classical fine art, every single thing that they did for the most part had some sort of meaning which obviously resonates with me, very deeply because I believe that a good designer has reasons which is part of why we I'm going through this whole process thing because. Allows you to have reasons for all your choices. So I've I art history was one of my favorite classes. I took a philosophy of of art in college. Also, so not just history philosophy of art. And that's where this kind of symbolic and stuff comes in. So when I'm doing research, depending on the product the project, I get like, I usually don't get more than six books. I kind of like go through my bookshelf and not including color books books are separate, but like other sorts of books poster designs book designs, no matter what I'm doing just kind of pick a book a set of books and look at them. So there's books there's actual art and photography. So looking at not just books about art. But looking at our itself so going if I've an how I do this basically is. If I'm looking for a like a photographic direction. I will look on through photography books, or I will look through my photos of other photos like so if I found a photograph in a museum that I really thought was interesting, I probably have it in one of my folders on my phone. So then I also speak into my phone. I look through my own inspiration folder who. So I as you know. And this is where where the collecting, you know, I always talk about all these crazy inspirational things that I find I take pictures of everything they're in a folder, and you refer back to them, and I do refer back to them, especially if it was something that really stuck in. I'm like, oh my gosh. When I was in New York, I her member I was in this restaurant. And there was this one thing in the corner. But I can't remember what it was. So then I can go back and go, okay. That was the field. I was the color or whatever. So going back to those things. So fine are also including sculptures to not just not just paintings and photography, but sculptures. And obviously these aren't for every project braces, just like I'm just giving you like the vast array of things that you can use for research. So your research old does take a bit of upkeep because you need and you build it yet build it as time goes on. So the reason you can say you have all of these resources to look at for research is because you've spent the past fifteen years building this acting them. Yeah. And I realized that but collecting is something that takes money and time, and which is why it's it's developed over time into this library this many library that I have now. However. Anyone can get a free library card. Oh, yeah. And they have tons of books on art. Specifically, they have they are now starting to have a lot more books on like design and things like that. But I am a strong believer in if you are doing an album cover not just looking at other albums for inspiration. You can't copy. I have I have a big book. I have a couple books on CD art and album cover, design and. I didn't grab either one of those two research for Kelly's probably for safety. Yeah. Well, and yet for safety. But also, it's like if you wanna look at them for maybe how they laid out the type like out they put the title the artist and the title of the album may be. Yeah. Sense. As far as like, the design and the colors and stuff you need to be looking elsewhere because you're just going to end up looking like some sort of weird knockoff. Yeah. By default. And I mean plagiarism is a big thing. And you don't want it to accidentally happen because I remember this, and I'm just gonna say it, you're in the research time, and you look at stuff you can accident remember that and put that into the actual like final outcome in when you do a Google image. Search all of a sudden that picture pops up and you're like, well, I've stolen this sorry or your style reference. Looks far too similar to what you've just done. Right. So. Yeah. So the research phase is is twofold. It is one to get ideas. But to to eliminate things you can't do that already exists. So maybe you have this idea that you don't realize that you may have seen before and in your research can go. Oh dang that already exists. I need to do something different. But ultimately, if you're doing enough varied research of different avenues, the likelihood that you're going to even come up with something that looks anything like anything else is so slim because you're looking at something varied you're not looking at all book covers and doing a book design. You're not looking at posters to poster design. You're looking at fine art do a poster designer looking at photography to do an album cover. And so all of that research really plays into it another another couple of really unconventional things that I do is TV shows and movies. Yeah. I didn't. I did not do that for Kelly's. But if you remember when I did the branding for the the photographer that I wa. Watched. Doctor Thorne, I think on Amazon it was like this Victorian era via. Yeah. TV show because I was that was part of the research of that era that time period that I was looking for for her branding yet. That makes sense. And I do remember you doing that. And kind of being a little jealous, which is just a little bit of a cheater way. Because let's be real the people making that show did all the research. Make sure that the show looked Fenwick. Read you read the spark notes. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to watch this. And because I'm I'm I'm a visual like, I'm a visual learner. I can learn I can learn all sorts of different ways just like most people, but one of my primary ways to learn visually. And so to be able to see that and go, that's that's how it feels. Okay. Now. I have I already had color, palette ideas and stuff. But we'll when you're watching it. You're seeing you're seeing that the sets you're seeing the room you're seeing how everything looked the colors they're wearing. But. You're also getting their acting which is a specific type of which adds to the feel. So the way they talk how they talk how they carry themselves all of that should be in the feeling of whatever you were doing exactly photographer. Yeah. So it's it's a lot more fun too. Because when you when you put together say it, depending on the client, sometimes I put together a like, I guess the only way to explain it is to say like a mood board. Okay. Sort of it's a call an inspiration board for a client. So that they can understand where like kind of on a more broad sense where these ideas board. Yes. So it's not it's not like, okay. Here's this picture of this this brand for another photographer that I liked and here's just my version of it. That's the wrong kind of inspiration. It's like okay here. I I saw this color of dress on this girl on this show here. Here's this picture of this group of succulents that I saw on Instagram that had this perfect green that actually meaning wise worked really well. And you know, showing all the steps, and it's like, it's all it almost looks like a have you ever seen a interior design board when they're presenting like, yeah. A room. Yeah. It looks very cool. It's similar to that. Okay. You're taking all these disparate things as inspiration and pulling them all together and making something brand new I as just a human being with any integrity. I have hated seeing people come up with a with a brand of some sort of of their brand and looking at their brand and saying you literally just went to this place and saw that you saw this and made it yours somehow. I hate it being that obvious, right? And I have I'm I'm thinking of someone specific that I won't even say, but it was just my at sad. But I can think of a few people. Yeah. It's just it's really concerning to me. Just like when when I when I saw that. I thought man if you're not gonna put that much effort into this. What is your product going to be right, right? Trust it. So it was it was how are you doing? Yeah. It's your unique. What's your US p your unique selling point is what I can copy you? Yeah. And and this happened before I ever even started this podcast. So I'm going back to that in my mind and thinking Yikes. And I'm still haven't innate sense of picking out frauds? Yeah. It's like oh. That looks like. And that's why Kellie whenever he's writing song. He'll sing it. And either all say or he'll ask does that sound like anything or I'll tell him. Hey that sounds like this, and I'll sing it. He goes. Oh, it does. Right. And it's not because. We don't want to like outright copy. But we or we don't want. It doesn't. It's not like that. We're trying to be so different that we can't be like anybody else you can be influenced by but without winding off, I'm like, his Google image. Search your voice his voice search of that sounds like this. I feel like that should be thing you need to like create some software for that. Michelle. I don't as not source to get someone to create it for me. I know that is not my strong suit. Find an entrepreneur that will take your idea and make lots of money. Hey, this is I should tell I work with a web developer. I like so you got this. This is a good idea. He said, that's his least favorite thing here. Oh, haven't apt that you should make. Like, that's like his least favorite thing here. But we only didn't apt to Bella per we do. I mean, I do I get it. I get it. And just go up to him and say he'll be like his shake his head at me. Like, let's go I need a logo. Okay. Okay. Thanks, great. You what do you want to Email me about it? Yeah. Okay. So now, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk a little bit more in depth on what I did for Kelly. Okay. So for Kelly. I got I got together some some poster designed books some just general print design books, which which could be business cards. It could be brochures or posters or anything a book cover, and my my ultimate all time favorite for this project. Was that symbols and allegories in art book? Okay. That excuse me that I got at the Getty museum. So in my word map, it came out that and I if you recall last week's episode, and if you haven't listened you need to listen to the first two this I three so that this one makes sense very rarely do to do this. But we're in the middle of a Syria. So it'll just make sense much more sense. So I think I mentioned. Nd that geometric shapes came up as part of the process triangles. Yeah. So so it was actually just geometric shapes in the beginning. Yes. So what I did was. The concept was almost winter. So in your mind, it's like how does how does winter even relate to geometric shapes as part of my research? Okay. Thought just looking like, oh looks cool. Right. Because that why because that's what hipsters do right? Yeah. Throw shapes on stuff is because it looks cool. And I don't work like that. Right. So I went to this book. And I will first of all I have I keep running keep running list not a list. It's just not a running list. I keep a little reference of like the four basic shapes. So triangles squares actually just the three and circles, and what those shapes represent because often in branding or design. You will have some version of the shapes probably almost always whether it's like a half, circle or a part of a triangle, or you know, whatever. So so what I did was I wrote down. And I'm just gonna I'm just going to be real transparent. And right read everything that I have here. So for a triangle dynamic tension, balance, the trinity and self-discovery, and these aren't all words that that this shape means, but these were the ones that apply to Kelly's project. Okay, specifically. A square is stability honesty, earthbound, if it's tilted if the square is tilted, it means something's unexpected and circles are eternity whole infinite warm comforting integrity and promoting life protecting life and just life in general. Okay. So so for this particular project, it was like, okay circles and triangles seem the most appropriate as far as like, the meanings that they already have and these meanings are meaning that are just inherent like these are like ancient just built in like circles is because the circle of life because the world is round because you know, life starts as an egg, which is a circle and all these these things that are just like, it's not someone just saying, it's this means. It just is it works. Yeah. Because so I knew for sure that I wanted to use circles and triangles possibly squares. There were some in there. But not as many and how I decided that was some of the words in there are in the word map. Okay. So some of those words are in the word map. I'm saying it ties because it's important that makes sense. So when you're looking at meetings and things and China figure out stuff if you go. Oh that sounds right. Look at the word map and see if it's there. And if it's there that probably means that's a good choice like as an option. It's like, it's like double checking your work. Yes. And that's what the word so after you're done with the word map, and you've chosen colors and concepts and image or a visual elements it now just serves as a reference point. So you will need to have that nearby at all times until you're ready to execute because you need to be this is your double check. This is where you go Kay. I like the idea of using this thing. Is that in the word map? I like the meaning of this. But is out in the word map. And if it's not you don't have a reason to use really good. I am. So so bad at interior design. I'm so bad at it. And I don't think you are. I'm okay. I it took me six years to get my living room to where it is. Right now. But I'm so bad at it. And it's because I would say, oh, I really like this this look, and I really like this feel, but then I see something at the store that I'm like, that's so cool. And I buy it and go into my living room. And I'd hold it. And I'd be like, well, this doesn't work at all anymore. Yeah. It's not cool with in my room. And so I would just like, but I really like I'm gonna put it here. And then it just made everything feel terrible and context good. Yeah. And so that's what I'm kind of relating it to is the I I get I get the necessity of keeping those things close to you the throughout the entire research phase and until execution because it would be so easy to stray from and it is because especially as creatives, especially as designers. We like new and shiny ideas. Like, oh, my God, saying this opinion just happened. And it's like I'm gonna do that. Instead. And then you you do it. And if you look back at the Maya map, the word map, and you go this. None of these things are. Are here. This doesn't work at all. And so then it basically eliminates that like terrible mistake making time because you're you're not just following. All these weird rabbit trails. Right. You're like you've got a mission. Yes. Exactly. So focused. Yeah. So the other things that I use this book for an I highly recommend this book. I can probably put a link to it. What is it called? Again. It's called symbols and allegories in art. It's from the Getty. I'm not sure if they sell it on Amazon or just on the Getty G E T T Y Getty, images. It is. Yeah. It's the people that. Yeah. The Getty is was a bazillionaire and did all these museums. And so cool all the stuff. So part of how this thing is organized is. See how this it's like categories of things or objects. So the things that were the most useful to me for Kelly's project just by default. So his his concept is almost winter. So I went to the seasons section make sense. There's a section for seasons. And when over I looked at all the different seasons, and I looked at autumn and winter because it's somewhere in between there, and I wrote down. I wrote down some survey Sion's about those things but primarily for winter. I will read this to you. So I'm blind ham eyeglass had to pull closer to my face. So landscapes of blue trees was was like a a commonality in in classic art, varied whites are colors that were important. Gray greens and brownish blacks, equalled harsh winter. So those were a couple of things shadows, equal death and twilight like if anyone painted twilight that was a symbol of autumn. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So like Van Gogh was that is at the wrong like the starry night is that like a different? That's I mean, that's night. Like, it's night. But it's it's not twilight twilight brighter gets Dr it's a little before. It gets start make sense. Yeah. So for winter it gives in it shows, you examples of things, but it basically it basically talks about how like the where the word winter comes from from the old Norse Vetter into the Indo European wed or to be wet. So like has all these things related gods and symbols Cronos Saturn. Janice night water temperature. Mint old age. So it it's like, I know this probably seems like super boring weird. But I need I wanted to have a deeper understanding of symbolically if I was going to be using symbols in this our work. I think it's actually really not boring because I didn't know that. That's what those things could have meant like for seasons in that. I think that's just a really interesting section of the work of the book because. I think it's a really interesting section of the book because you didn't have those words or that knowledge beforehand, and it seems so easy to grass, right? Yeah. So it's it's a nice set. And I wanted this to be titled like deeper research because this isn't surface level research like in order to get your most unique designs you have to use the word map to help you get to this deeper level. So the other words that were in the visuals, if you remember where like woods and trees, so I also looked at woods and trees in the symbols book to make sure that and all of this is is to basically. Reaffirm. Okay. I think that woods entries needs to be in this design. But why just because it came up in the word map. That's okay on check. That's yes. They are there. They need to be there. Another one was because it was something Kelly mentioned. So that's another check. That's like, okay. That's great. There's two things. So now, I need to look into like the what does it mean? Yeah. Behind it, especially because something that Kelly said in our conversation was that this album is like a little bit self reflective not necessarily for him. But for a person listening to it, and that it had like a lot of deep meaning. And so if if I want this art to look like it has deep meaning it needs to have deep. Meaning it's like where do you go in your mind? Right. And I mean, I do this anyways. But I don't always go into the symbolically stuff for every single thing. I do but this one felt appropriate. So I'm going to read the thing for trees and woods that I found in the same book so trees was life into Taliban. So a whole life from. Beginning to end reconciliation of opposites up to heaven or down to earth. So the roots are down below and the top of the canopy of the tree is up high and trees also represent a journey. Okay. Which was another key. Yeah. Map it works. So. Well, yeah, unintentionally. Yeah. In the beginning in the beginning, and then woods represent the deep unconscious so stuff that we're not even aware of self reflective if there's woods with a clearing. So you can see some sort of openness that represents like, something spiritual or sacred. And then the the excuse me, it also represents like some sort of contact with God like like contact with the divine. Yes. If you know, it's like you are communing with God. While you are in nature. Just switch. Also sounds a little hippie. But if you think about it, it's it's real. It's like why we feel things when we're out in the woods. It's like, wow. There's the building about this connected. Yeah. In a way that you just don't in the city. I love the city. But right. You just. Yeah. It's just different. It's a different thing. So that was all part of the research for this. So from there, I I went into the colors. Which honestly were are already showing up in here. You heard talking about whites and grays and blue grays, and you know, I already had those in the word map. So I found them through my research. They are already in the word map. So when I go back to my list of colors, then I go, okay, which ones die find in my research that I had in my list, another check into China. And now, I have my color palette, which ended up being gray bluish, gray white, and like some greens for the trees, but it was a cooler tone. Yeah. So there's there's basically like a real quick synopsis of like how I got to to Kelly's our and I did look at the art that he referenced the he liked. So I that's part of the research too is looking at in member in the in the brief like can you give me an example of art that you like, and he did and your competition and he did. And so I made sure to look at those things. And nothing that I was doing or wanted to do anything like that. Great. So from this make sure I'm not skipping any steps here. Oh, so part of the research thing that the next part the next part of this is looking through all the books and marking them. Okay, K. So this you'll understand why do this. So I get those little tabbies little post tabby things. And I keep basically keep them usually stacked at like pasted into the back of the book. So I can just grab one and put them there. And then when I'm done with that project. I take him out and put it back. And so you go through this. This is part of your research, you go through you've got your concept you've got like an idea on a direction visually. So you kind of have this rough idea. So this is where you're like brainstorming in your head like what sort of look is this going to be? So I know I want trees, I know I want these kind of colors, but this part is like what do I want the layout? Like what field I want? Yeah. So you're just looking looking looking through books you to sit down with books. You don't have your sketchbook yet. You sit down with books. Put the sketchbook cliff are far away far away. Do not be tempted. Yeah, there's two more steps. There's this step into one more after this before even allowed to touch that thing. So you Mark all the books and you stack them up. I like to do this either in the afternoon or late at night because the next step is sleep in. Explain why I put all the little tabbies. Then I go back through the books one more time. And I look at all of the things I marked. So I have like a clear visual in my mind of what I look. At leave them there. And you go to sleep. Your brain does really incredible things when you sleep. I didn't look into this until we actually talked about the research and sleep part a few years ago on this podcast, which he goes into one or you can listen now. Whatever and go, listen and come back. Yeah. You wanna do? It's really incredible. What your brain can do while you sleep because while you sleep what is your brain doing solving problem solving problems? So what do we do is designers solve problems problems? I had a friend who listened to that episode if you years ago when it first came out, and she she was just listening. She's not a designer. She is creative. She had been cast as a as a role in Mary Poppins on theater and on on these days on stage musical theatre. And she was having the hardest time getting some of this footwork down. She's not a dancer. She has a little bit of training. But it's not something she does. So she's having a really hard time getting some of this tap down. And she practiced practiced in practice in practice. It was getting so frustrated and decided you know, what I'm going to sleep because I hear that my. Rain does really cool things when I sleep and she slept and she woke up in the morning, and she had it down as not wild. It's so cool. Like, it's so cool that our brains just put things together like your use. Leaping is not wasted time. Right, which which is sort of like for me as a as a so any Graham three I'm like, that's great. That means I'm actually doing stuff when I sleep. Can. I do that. While I eat. Like eating. What is food is food? I need. No. Yes. So so once you've the I did forget one small thing that I do that's like kind of important to this. When you have your little tabbies, I usually have a pencil, and I write what I like about the thing that I topped okay? Because sometimes Carlos. Sometimes it's the type, and if I just put a tabby, I don't remember why tab, this mess Acerra all the time. Because it's obviously not like just like this it I'm going to copy. It's something about that thing that I wanna take out. So you sleep, and like I said I really liked doing research late in the afternoon or in the evening, if you can help it because then you know, and also think about the problem as you are searching for your your style. References. That's what this is the research is to find your style. References. Think about what problem you're trying to solve. So for me for Kelly's. Thank it was trying to create the feeling of of almost winter in a deep introspective way. And I wanted people to be able to have a feeling by looking at this our work because you can always achieve that. It can look cool, but won't always feel like something. And especially with music, you want there to be that attachment by people because sometimes people choose a CD based solely on the orc or Spotify playlist or whatever based just on the cover and a book. Yeah. So it's really really important. So you sleep and you wake up, and then you get to sketch, and we will talk about sketching your ideas in the next episode. Yeah. How do you feel you did with your explaining of research part? I feel like it was pretty good. Yeah. This is really interesting to me. I always love this. Because especially if it's something that I don't know about like when I was. Suing the talked before about that tech company that I did park lab where they drop the kettle ball to test. Oh, yeah. I had to do a lot of research into like that world of of playground safety. Yeah. Order to get to this place, something they're like do I care about this? I mean, and I I guess I do my kids play on play ground. Yeah. And so it was like this gives you the opportunity to learn and no, I don't remember. I don't know lots of people have said this. But like the quote is from chip Kidd. He's a legendary in my eyes book cover designer he didn't interview in this book by Debbie mailman, called had like a great graphic designer and the quote says a graphic designer has to function in the world, we need to know more than just typefaces in Panton colors. Indeed, that's the least of it. I learned just as much about design by studying psychology, philosophy English lit geology, art history. And yes, even. Room dancing. And that is how I feel like that that resonated so deep within like my little design heart because it's like designers. Don't just make things look pretty and this phase the research phase is what differentiates us from so many other people, but also creative industries, and it really sets us apart from the kind of designers that work on fiber that just go. What do you want? Yeah. I can make that. It's like, okay, Jeannie. Nobody's genie. Yeah. I'm going to insert myself for this period of time into this world of whatever in this case, symbolic G, and really embracing like deep seated feelings and introspection in other cases, it's in this weird world of tech that I don't understand there's also theater and all the different things. And that's what's so exciting about what I do is that every concept can. Lead me to learn something new, and so designers are always learning were always trying to figure things out. We are psychologists. We are artists. We are all these things. And I love that close so much. That's perfect perfect way to end it too. I love it. So sleep on that sleep on that. So we've hoped that we hope that you have enjoyed this brandy. I'm gonna flip it on your where can people find us? You can find us on all sorts of social media Facebook Instagram Twitter, sometimes Michelle's on Twitter more than I am not as much. I just read downloaded it. And immediately wanted to delete it again. I just I really love it when I'm there. And then I just forget about it. See right now. It's just a bunch of political junk, I don't fall out of politics a lot of eight if neither do I g you didn't think. Yeah. So you can follow us there. You can Email us at brandy at brandy seat dot com. You can smell my name. Her name is spelled as be are a n d I s e a. Randy see and again, smaller minder check. Our patriot. Thank you so much to Vesper team as always for letting us letting us use your music to define our feel cast. Thank you, call for sheet. It we appreciate you until next time. Uh-huh. Mascot. Sephora week when you get what you're saying. Will eat in Oklahoma state.

Kelly Google Michelle George Clooney Graham China Amazon Polk Maggie Rogers SNL Getty Getty museum chip Kidd Oklahoma Getty villa museum woods Stevie Florence Van Gogh
246: Wendy Behary | Disarming the Narcissist

The Jordan Harbinger Show

1:10:22 hr | 1 year ago

246: Wendy Behary | Disarming the Narcissist

"<music> welcome to the show. I'm jordan harbinger. As always i'm here with my producer jason defillo on the jordan harbinger show we decode the stories secrets and skills of the world's most brilliant and interesting people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you narcissism. Narcissism is a word thrown around a lot these days. It's almost lost all meaning however i think we've all known dated or possibly even married someone on the spectrum drum and we've all felt the sting that results today on the show wendy bahari author of disarming the narcissist will deliver some strategies and tools to identify whether we're dealing with the narcissist narcissist versus your just run of the mill selfish a-hole how we can spot their tactics such as gas lighting in real time and how we can defend ourselves against their machinations nations and of course in a surprising twist will also learn that a little narcissism might even be good for us. I mean all the guests for the show through my network and i'm teaching you how to grow and expand your network for personal and professional reasons in our free courses not put your credit card in free just free free plano free six minute networking and that it is available for you at jordan harbinger dot com slash course all right. Here's wendy bahari so you're a narcissism our system expert that sounds like something you get into through unfortunate circumstances. Few people choose to be an dr schism expert a lot of my friends and colleagues immediately thought what are you a masochist and we didn't know this about you. Yet doesn't usually happen that you just pick it as a special taste often happens either because you've had personal experience on that path or more because in my case you've run into them in the treatment room before you you really understood what you were dealing with and you found yourself this person who always believed to be confident up for the challenge curious capable edible now suddenly frozen in time or dropping back in time i should say and kind of relegated to an almost childlike position of giving in and surrendering and apologizing and allowing them to mow you down. That's what i did and i was so struck by my reaction shen the first time the second time the third time that i was in the treatment room with someone like this that i really began scratching my head saying this is just incredibly interesting thing and xing because i feel like i would have felt when i was maybe six or seven years old back in the days of catholic schools in none set could use corporal punishment punishment so you give in your good girl you do the right thing you keep the peace and there i was feeling those same experiences and wondering why is it happening again with this type of person. This isn't what i typically encounter in my adult life or my life is a therapist and so i began exploring investigating trying to understand it better working with my then mentor on an approach that could effectively work with this population but first yes we had to figure out what it was and i had heard about narcissistic personality disorder. I studied it in graduate school but i had never at that point really they worked with someone with these issues right because when you started studying narcissism it wasn't now where narcissism is a buzzword. Now everyone's going oh. He's such a narcissist because he took a picture of his salad and it's like well self absorbed. Maybe what is it now. I gen one after millennial the people younger unlike thirty right now <hes> we look at them and self absorbed. I don't necessarily agree with that. Put either way. We're throwing the term narcissist around kind of like somebody. I don't like. I'm going to malign then. There are a narcissist okay. I'm done yes. It's being misused. It's like saying someone's an addict because they like video games. They like net flicks. Yes yes exactly yeah. It went from being a term. That was incredibly limited. You know two the lexicon of therapists and people in the mental health industry straight to being a word that started to arrive on kitchen tables. You know in conversations given the political climate to a word. That's just totally agree with you. Jordan just incredibly incredibly overused. Everyone's narcissists now if they even share something about themselves. Yeah it's any instagram posts that includes view or something that people aren't necessarily interested in its narcissistic or if you've got a blog even though you're not heavily promoting it and it's about your work life and you're anonymous yes. You're a narcissist. I mean it's really very very difficult and it's become really blurry. As my wife and i were studying this in preparation for the show jen she goes. Oh my gosh we know so many people with these qualities. I was like whoa eight. We know a lot of people with one or two of these. We don't know a bunch of people that are actually narcissist so there's a difference and i'd love for you to explain. There's a difference between somebody who might be a little arrogant or might be a little little cocky or might be proud of themselves for some specific thing and somebody who's a clinical narcissist. That's actually going to have a problem with this in their life. Yeah absolutely that's an important distinction. Any one of us could have traits as you noticed when you're looking at this with your wife. Any one of us could carry the traits that happen along the spectrum of narcissism. There are very mildly obnoxious annoying narcissistic like people who can be a little too self absorbed. Perhaps a little too over zealous or embellishing stories in ways that just become become boring and off pudding to the higher end of the spectrum where you'll find a more clinical diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder and that's where you're going to see and think in very exaggerated terms life patterns that probably started early on with the narrative that can help us understand this and have evolved over time to an adult who is now super self absorbed really seemingly incapable of empathy for other people or an appreciation for the impact of their own behaviors on other people. Seemingly incapable of remorse. Remorse can't be accountable or responsible can't apologize basically is demanding feels entitled to have what they want when they want wanted doesn't seem to understand that the rules do apply to everyone including them so reciprocity given take taking turns tolerating frustration duration. These are the characteristics you're going to find in someone who has what we call more clinical narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder they i spend a lot of time living in the world of fantasy of their super specialness their grandiosity there extraordinariness in the world very very little patience for being average or being ordinary like an ordinary human and there's a whole list of reasons as as to why they become the way they do so we understand it's part temperman a lot of it has to do with environment exposure upbringing nurture the whole nature nurture issue but this is what we're talking about when we're thinking of narcissistic personality disorder when you think of the more severe the very severe bure and it can also but not always include abuse in the form of physical violence sexual assaults sexual acting out emotional abuse so some can be even aggressive but not all and as you were saying jordan and i think rightfully so unfortunately now what's happening. His anyone who shows anger is being called a toxic narcissist right not necessarily true. It may just be a person with anger. Issues will well right like ask anyone who's divorced in. There was a narcissist and it's like well were. They always insist well. There were times when and it's like okay there were times when this person was selfish and then as you guys were fighting over your kids. They turned out to be not so pleasant okay. I i kind of understand that yes and then there are some people that you hear about who are let's say divorced and then they tell you about their acts and you go. Oh my god. How did you live with that person at all. Yes there probably an actual narcissist so so there's a huge difference. I'm against words like this being thrown around because it dilutes things. I don't just mean the word narcissist but i mean you know you say something you expressing unpopular opinion and then it's like you're suddenly a nazi right more. You're immediately right wing. If you're like well you know it might make sense to make sure people have visas or green cards that live here and work work. Permits are important in europe. Oh you're right now. It's like wait a minute yeah or you're like. Hey you said this really rude thing. Oh okay snowflake right like you're just immediately. Jumping to the most sort of extreme version of this in narcissist is one of those words that falls into that category but i do you wonder is there some kind of narcissism epidemic in the u._s. Because people keep saying that that's happening as well and i'm like well are people more self absorbed because because of social media and other things or is clinical narcissism actually on the rise in your estimation think it probably is a little bit on the rise just just because we're living in a time where for better and for worse we have access to pretty immediate gratification so so in those terms were losing some of our capacity to be patient to deal with frustration to be uncomfortable which is a part of life so some of this immediate access to whether it's just gaining this popularity or some infamous notoriety through social media or just technical capacities which orw wonderful there's this void in our ability as humans to really fortify our frustration tolerance and to be uncomfortable trouble at times. I also think there's just a rise jordan in our awareness of narcissism and are over awareness as you've pointed out even therapist purpose get to a point now where they'll just say well what he expect. I mean i couldn't treat that client. He's narcissist. Listen that convenient you know that nobody has to take responsibility for their own skill set because you can just blame the patient and it's true they are incredibly difficult to work within the treatment room and not many therapists really want to work with them or have really learned how to work with them effectively so again. I'm not blaming being people who are frustrated overwhelmed when they have someone with narcissistic issues or narcissistic personality disorder in their clinical room but it becomes an easy throwaway line. They're just narcissist. Would he expect in nineteen sixty three and i believe i grad this from your book although it just one of those orphan quotes that i did a bad job of crediting in nineteen sixty three adolescence are asked if they consider themselves important twelve percent said yes thirty years later in ninety three that percentage had risen to eighty but then people say like oh well that's creating narcissists because we've have a means for self promotion we can seek social status we can seek attention and it follows from the culture that we live in the more individualistic the culture the more narcissistic people tend to be. There's a little distinction attention here that maybe doesn't exist. Tell me if i'm crazy you can be narcissistic but you don't have to be a narcissist like if i demand. Everyone listened to me because it's my birthday and i'm telling a story. I'm being a little narcissistic. That doesn't mean that i go around. My whole. Life is like this. It just means that i'm being kinda shithead that day right like that's okay it. It happens people. Get an absolutely we call it a mode. You know we all enter into different modes or states of mind if you will and we can be in our pouty estate sometimes or are demanding states of mind. Sometimes they're just modes just little pieces of our personality that can show up based on whatever mood were in or how we're feeling biologically speaking something that just might have happened so you can have a narcissistic mode or you can have moments where you're acting in a way okay that's entitled or perhaps a little too self aggrandizing or too demanding. That doesn't make you a narcissistic person again. It's the patterns over time time that are really baked in that show up primarily in interpersonal settings with other people and so going back to the statistics that that you were looking at on confidence one can be very confident ambitious achievement oriented but also have that balanced by being very effective effective in the world of connections of give and take of carrying about someone else's needs of taking responsibility for both the the joy and the sorrow that you might create with another human and when you have that balance between connection and performance that doesn't make you a narcissist because you're proud and confident confident when it comes to your ambition or your professional life but if you take away the connection side of the equation and it's all built on just achievement in other words. My work is my worth. My value comes from mike extraordinary performance the applause from the audience. That's the only thing that makes me lovable eligible then you're not even absolutely there but you're running the risk of potentially looking at narcissism now. This seems to affect men and a lot more than it does women and this isn't just my observation. I actually looked this up because i thought look we only need to look at instagram to see there plenty of both men and women that are narcissistic. We see see this all over the place but the statistics show that this effects men a lot more and the reason why was really fascinating. Can you speak to that a little bit yeah. It's a really important observation. You're making jordan but it has a lot to do with what i was just speaking about and even in two thousand nineteen. I think what what we still find. Is this push to sequester the emotions of little boys this emphasis on competition achievement achievement and performance and athleticism not to say that parents aren't encouraging their daughters as well to do all of these things but sometimes sometimes it's more the exclusion of the emotional world affection attention just unconditional love that boys will fall prey to that at more than girls tend to although as you said and i think it needs to be said there are plenty of narcissistic women as i always say there's lots of divas that can give these men men a run for their money so there's crossover but they show up differently and i think some of that difference that we see in the census when we say seventy five percent of narcissists tend to be men kind of disagree. I just think it's that women show up differently. They show up more like martyrs in their narcissism in their narcissistic profile then you're going to see a man who's going to show up. Perhaps more arrogant more buttoned up more. Well put together more blaming everyone else in the world narcissistic women tend to be the big sufferers so they show up as victims virtuous victims because they're paying suffering is greater and bigger and more important than anyone anyone else's but it's a bit different right flies in under the radar a little bit so guys are like tower suit power steering nuts about and then the narcissistic woman woman is like you know i raised you all by myself and here you are. You don't even call and it's like i was there yesterday. You don't even care about me and then she goes and tells all the neighbors about how are your terrible son. This isn't me by the way my mom is great but like you hear about this and then they go yeah. It turns out. My mom is a narcissist and you go. Oh that's weird because it doesn't fit this is weird stereotype of narcissism in my head like if you said your mom was taking sell fees and inviting everyone over every day to look at her collection of weird porcelain animals that she keeps in a glass case in our living room then i'd be like yeah that's weird narcissistic. Not somebody who talks about how crappy their kids are like this weird back door narcissism right where it's like like oh woe is me. My life is so hard and then you're like wait a minute. You had a trust fund. You live in a house. You'd never worked danger life yet three full-time nannies. What are you talking campout. You're fine. They're just like this professional victim in that can come from narcissism but it takes people around them longer to figure it out because they're not so outright right over the top arrogant cocky proud whatever sort of adjective you wanna throw in there. Where a guy at really kind of just hits you in the face right. You descent seconds into the interaction. Oh yeah absolutely feel it in your gut. I used to say you can diagnose this from your gut with female narcissists it is more of that back door issue shoe and part of it is that they look like they're vulnerable because they're quote unquote suffering but then you listen a little more carefully and it's really more about 'bout. You think you've had it bad. Let me tell you what bad is and then they give you the litany of mazing wonderful incredible things they've done on that no one appreciates that no one's giving them attention for and there maybe more than a kernel of truth to what they're experiencing. It's the way they experience -perience at they express it they presented and they carry it in their mind that can make them also incredibly off pudding making their relationships suffer and lo and behold they ended up becoming lonely souls to yeah. I guess what i'm trying to say is these professional victims are actually a little bit more skilled. It's like there's a little bit more nuanced and more fascinating somehow. I don't know if you feel that ways therapist but the cocky arrogant guy who's like look at me look at me. It gets a little played out. It's a little more interesting to investigate somebody who goes hi fi. Just brag a lot. It's gonna get really obvious but if i start talking about how much my life sucks and get a bunch of sympathy i still we'll get a bunch of attention. It's a little bit more positive and maybe it's a little more sustainable because people then feel guilty if they don't whereas with regular narcissist people can't wait to get away from most of the time that's right and it's challenging on both fronts because once you touch that tender nerve of the martyr or the professional victim and challenged challenge them on what might be their contributions to the conflict in their lives. That's when you're going to get the daggers so it becomes very difficult in the same way that when i'm confronting fronting a male narcissist in the treatment room about their arrogance about the way they're speaking to me about you know what they're demanding or. They're critical nece. It's the same they'll get highly defensive and counter attack so you're gonna get the same thing ultimately. It's just through a different route. They're different types of narcissism awesome and i would love to go over these because they have the one commonality which is as you call it self enhancement and i'd love to go through these because i think a lot of times we go. Oh well if that person's a narcissist than this other person who's different in these fundamental ways. I guess that's something else or maybe i'm wrong but it just turns out. There's a lot of flavors of this type. The thing i would love to go over the different types and kind of the key differences along time ago i interviewed somebody who i think self diagnosed themselves as a malignant narcissist assistant he was just a terrible person and very intelligent which made it a little scary but he was a horrible horrible kind of guy. I remember him just freely talking about how he abuses his wife and it made me think he's maybe a little bit more psychopath than narcissist. Maybe there's both but this is such a nuance term. I would love to get into the different types seems like there's there's four different types. Yes there's several different types. You're right and the malignant narcissist has often referred to what you just stated someone who may be tipping the edge <unk> of psychopathy or associates eighty where they're almost a little too much relishing in the pleasure of power and bringing bringing pain to someone else as a form of their power and their specialness so different from what i think of as classic narcissism when they're they'll hurt you. You know they'll hurt you. They can be very insulting and demeaning and controlling threatening but the motivational driver isn't isn't hurt. They don't want to hurt what they want to do. Is protect themselves defend their egos. They'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. Including hurting you in some way or just is being incredibly insensitive in the way they behave feeling entitled to act out without any remorse so there's one distinct difference there and some people people argue with these definitions you know because they're not founded in like a clinical diagnostic handbook but many of us who've worked with narcissists for as many years as i have have and others have i think would agree that when we say malignant were really talking about someone who is just in that most severe category and again you can picture to them scheming in ways that bring pleasure just from the pain that it's creating for another person and that's more in the psychopathic realm and again again other narcissists because people listening to this will save yeah but they hurt you. They can be so self absorbed so careless so thoughtless so impulsive so interrupted up tive in their speech that they don't care what they say to you so yeah that's true. They are completely unaware and i'm not letting them off the hook by saying they're unaware. I'm saying what they're doing the driver behind that is i'm going to do whatever it takes to make myself. Look good to protect myself against this bad guy the idea that anybody might have about me against guilt against shane 'cause they carry so much shame deeply embedded in the core of their being so i'll do whatever takes i'll show you basically they can bully and they can attack but it's more in the spirit of self protection than it is with the thrill of getting away away with hurting you or watching you suffer that is very different distinction yeah so there are a narcissist and they really like the pain they're causing other people whereas some of these other narcissists are narcissist types. They might actually feel guilty. They can't help themselves but they feel bad about it in the moment or later but a malignant narcissist arthritis is kind of like yeah. I'm a terrible person and i got a little bit of extra kick on the back end because i like the fact that you hate your life. When you're around me yeah exactly really hard to swallow that but you're right exactly how it works the other type they may feel some shame and some guilt underneath but they're not likely to express that they defend it. They justified deny they'll say. I didn't say that you're so sensitive. You know. I wasn't even angry. I don't know what you're talking about. It wasn't loud. I never never used those words so they're like gas lighting you right there saying you're the crazy one that ever even happened. It's like you're literally on our nest cam saying this you know oh will oh that didn't mean it like that or then they revert to will. You just took it the wrong way right when i look at this. I'm talking in a normal volume even though i threw a plate and smashed against the wall that's all all in your head you're just being or they'll start justifying it and saying what do you expect from me. I have dealt with so much of your stuff for so long. I've just has been putting up with so much. I'm entitled to an outlandish every now and then. I'm entitled to be enraged. Most people would agree with me so then they just justify it. They become super self-righteous fractious. Which is another trait that you're going to see in narcissism. You're listening to the jordan harbinger show with our guest wendy bahari ari. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by skill share skills. Share is an online learning community with thousands of amazing classes covering dozens of creative and entrepreneurial skills so we've been using this for a while here in the office. Jen has taken every kind of course from adobe audition software to bookshelf organizing using. 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It just means you get all the latest episodes downloaded automatically to your podcast players so you don't miss a single thing now back to our show with wendy bahari okay so the malignant narcissist cover that nicole eggert narcissists is kind of what we talked about before chronically victimized used the world has failed to recognize everything i've done for it how dare they and then of course. I think what we're normally talking about. These sort of grandiose narcissists are maybe not normally but these are the people that make the news right where it's like. What do you mean you think you are going to change the world. You created a piece of art in your garage. What are you talking. You started taking photography classes at the learning annex three months ago janice. You're not getting in the getty museum. We're not using your photos in the exhibit. It's funny. If you've been in my treatment room i did read the book and you'll find in that category if we could break ak- down into two types or maybe two different paths to narcissism this is important too because the big question that always comes up. Is you know or had they become this way. How does this happen and say you know. If you're growing up in a home where again there is very little unconditional conditional love and love or praise or whatever you wanna call it. Acceptance is based on your performance. The burdens at that place is on a child to have to achieve unrealistic cystic outcomes. They develop these unrelenting standards. They learned that the world works by being the best of the best of the best even if they haven't fully earned it but they have to have it because the only way it's like their lifeblood. It's like their water. It's what allows them to feel like they matter. This is what they've been taught now. Many of <hes> do happen to be incredibly smart and clever and they can bank on that intelligence and ambition and achievement strides to take them to places were they end up being the chief surgeon or the c._e._o. Of the company doesn't mean necessarily that they have intimate relationships because most don't most don't have have intimate relationships good friendships close connections with other people then there's the other type that comes simply because they've been over unconditionally conditionally love meaning anything goes you get a trophy for smiling today your perfect. You're so perfect you don't have to do anything. The parent who's always cleaning coming up their messes making excuses for them running to the rescue the child's not learning how to live in a world where you take steps. You make mistakes you given take. You can't always have exactly what you want when you want it and some of that comes out of these more v._i._p. Status families unfortunately where the the child is just unless they're going to continue to live within that small stratosphere. They're gonna have a hard time being in a real world environment a real world relationships the other people so you're going to get either coming by way of <unk> spoiled indulged child where they're taught that they're entitled to whatever they want when they want it or the ones that develop this kind of entitlement feeling like they can have what they want because they've done everything they were supposed to do by being highly achievement oriented could smart clever competitive extrordinary so they developed this kind of compensation for not being lovable for who they are because at the the end of the day what you're mostly saying what we mostly see in treatment is that the narcissist carries this horrendous insecurity sense of inadequacy quiz say fear of this shame that i call the toxic shame the shame that is unbearable to them of being exposed in an ordinary well because that's not okay. That's not acceptable yeah. It seems like isn't a little narcissism good for you because doesn't it drives some of us to achieve what we achieve you. You mentioned the surgeon this guy or gal who's overcompensating for something and sure that in itself might be a little bit unhealthy but if they didn't have that they might eight not. I've gotten to where they are look. They might have been happier not getting to where they are. They could have just gotten a regular job and had some really nice functional family relationships and i'm sure that would be better for them but but kind of looking at this as macro for society as a whole. Does anybody really wanna be the head leader of something or generate a large footprint on the world what if they aren't overcompensating for something i mean pushing through the dip with the big business or being an artist of some kind or being the fricken president of a company or the country or whatever chief surgeon. It's very rarely. Is it worth it because you're so driven and you're so internally you have such a good moral compass. You want to help other people and and you're the only man for the job at the only one for the job. A lot of us do this because we're like well crap. Maybe i'll finally have people love me. If i finally achieved this narcissism might not be good for the individual but it can kind of be good the society would you agree. Oh yeah i always say give me the surgeon who has worked his butt offer her butt off to overcompensate eight by being the best of the best. I just want them to be the best technician when i go under anesthesia and i being operated on but i don't wanna go home with them. I don't wanna live with the relationship with them but yeah on the operating room table absolutely yeah. Nobody is about to go under and goes wait. How are your relationships with family and friends ends before you cut open my draw a line for you. Remove my adenoids. I just wanna make sure that your dating life the way you were raised commensurate with what i expect in a surgeon ah i don't care. I want somebody who goes man after this. I'm gonna brag so hard to everybody about how well i did. Yes please do do a bang-up job. Exactly -actly that's right so again i want that person and they do make a contribution in ways that can be very meaningful but unfortunately not so much in their relationships with their families with their partners even with their co workers and their subordinates who ended up being at the mercy of their demands and their dismissive. What are some signs that we're dealing with dating married to a narcissist. Can you give us some concrete examples because some of it's really obvious like they only talk about themselves but i think it goes a little bit beyond that there might even be something. That's counterintuitive that people don't normally look for that. You say oh if they had just been in my office before before this a read my book before they would know that this is it well. The counter intuitive part is that they can be very charming and appear to be these amazing mazing superheroes. Oh my knight in shining armor you know the original title for my book was going to be a nightmare in shining armor. Oh very clear that that was a little too dark so you know they can show up looking like you know the hero was doing for you always trying to solve the problem until you cross them or you disagree with their solution mm or until you realize that <hes> wait a minute. This wasn't necessarily about me. This is really about them being the superhero so it's not really about about me because when i issue any kind of a complaint or disappointment in their behavior the disappear or they get angry and blame it on me so so in the early days of courtship and even sometimes throughout a relationship this part can be very endearing until you recognize that there are really <unk> gross limits to how much they're going to be willing to do to sit in your shoes to recognize what's happening in your skin especially if they happen the perpetrator of any pain that you're experiencing so that's one of those may be counterintuitive signs the more obvious ones as you mentioned already. Is there just so grossly self absorbed the not good listeners. They often have trouble making eye contact they impulsive. They're interrupting when you're speaking. They're not really really listening to what you're saying. They're waiting their turn to speak and to grandstand or they're just shutting down in tuning you out because they're bored when it's not about them when they're not speaking about themselves. They're not getting the kind of adoration or adulation that they need they go off and they self stimulate. They find ways to soothe themselves so big on self soothing when they're not engaged in something that's giving them direct approval for their wonderfulness awfulness. They are just highly entitled. You're going to be i mean. Entitlement really captures it almost like the hallmark trade of narcissism they feel incredibly entitled to say what do what act as if under any conditions no matter what they always have justification for their sense of entitlement settlement to do as they please and so that's a big red flag in a relationship now is just going to add one more thing which is the one thing you hear about all the time and they have a little bit of an issue with this because it's become another catch phrase called the super. 'em paths and i believe empathy is such an amazingly important element for all human relationships and i don't think anyone should apologize for being empathic in a relationship even if it's with a narcissist because empathy is not sympathy. I'd say narcissists are not totally incapable of empathy. There just haven't really develop the capacity because they're so focused on self all the time like deer in the headlights but through my work with them. I've discovered if they do the work. If the sit in the chair phil stay for the long distance they can develop that capacity to actually actually feel what others are feeling but first they have to develop it for themselves and empathy is not sympathy so it's not feeling sorry for the narcissist. It's understanding their makeup really understanding how they're put together why they do what they do and the more you understand that the less you're apt to be taking it personally. The less apt to be blaming yourself. Do narcissist have specific tactics that we might look out for me and we kind of mentioned before the gas lighting where they will say oh. It's you or oil justify it. But is there anything that you see and you routinely go. Oh dang this person that you're talking about in my office here. You're dealing with an assist. Oh this is a classic sort of narcissist move because a lot of people will be arguing realize they're wrong and then go. I wonder if i can get away with this by turning turning it around. It's just an immature way to argue. You know the mature ways to go. You know what you're right. I'm sorry i snapped was really dumb. I'm stressed out. That doesn't justify it. That's what normal people do sure. Narcissist versus might not let it go but there's gotta be something where you go. Only narcissists really do this do a._b._c. This is a very classic narcissist. Yeah one one of the things they do is what you just said. They have a really hard time taking responsibility if they've offended you so they'll make excuses or they'll turn it on you. Oh they'll ask questions and they will kinda hardly listen to your answers the really again looking for that room to shine and tout their there wonderfulness. They're looking for approval so the big red flag. Let's say you're meeting. A person who's doesn't have any narcissistic traits or doesn't have a narcissistic personality disorder disorder and they're asking you for the first time about your family and you start talking about your child and they look at you and say oh. You look so happy when you're speaking about your daughter. Oh i like the way you light up about that. Tell me more you know. Just they're engaged. The narcissist doesn't engage. They're looking for information so that they can then either compete with what they've just heard by one upping you and telling you a story that's even more amazing and fantastic than the one you just told dropping shopping in name the trying to impress. They're trying to win your approval. They don't feel comfortable in their skin and this is something that you know we can learn how how to detect early on what you notice. You asked me this question earlier. The one thing you'll notice if you're in a relationship with a narcissist is you feel a little bit erased. You feel kind of invisible sure you might be seen when there's a criticism that they're launching at you but you just don't feel visible when it comes to their real interest in knowing you kind of like the lights on but nobody's home in terms of they're doing the right things and they're pushing the right buttons but the response is kind of just mechanical mechanical right so when i think of somebody who's charming narcissistic charming and they're on a date they go tell me about yourself. Wow that's so interesting but they're not doing it to connect with you. They're doing it because they they know that's what you do. When you want someone to like us that they will do things for you later for example precisely yes they know how to get what they want and so they learn courtship tip very well and it's not to say that there's no genuine heartfelt feelings and anyone who's narcissistic. They do have moments times sometimes when they can cheer up that movie where they might. If there's a loss they might be grieving. There are little moments and for people who've been in relationships. It's with them. These are moments that you grab on and you savor and you hope oh dear. Maybe you know we could expand on this. Maybe this could evolve to something amazing. There really is a person underneath all of this masquerading nonsense that i'm putting up but you're right and courtship. It's very much they know what to do. They we know what to do because they want what they want and so they've figured out a little bit of how the game goes yeah i can see this happening with sociopaths with people who are narcissistic assistant and i think also it can happen with people who just are manually learning social skills and i won't go down that road that's kind of a separate topic but they're doing the right things in an interaction or in a relationship because they know that's what they're supposed to do but it really ends up being about them so even if they mean well even if they do tear up or they're having a moment of looks like genuine connection. It's still has a focus on how it makes them feel. They're really still focused on how this look for them or how. They're being made happy by this other person. It still seems like it really is all about them. Which being human is kind of like that. I would imagine in some way i mean we kind of have to recognize the the narcissism operating within all of us in order to embrace our humanness and i would argue and you're the expert that we have to stay connected to our narcissism so that we can notice it when it crosses over for into something more problematic like there's nothing wrong with feeling good about being in a relationship or being somebody who proud of your accomplishments but you kind of have to go what i'm doing right now well. It's in the spectrum of normal being harmed by it. People aren't getting sick of it and then once you start going gee i have talked for the entire forty five minute dinner and only only about myself and my podcast or something. There are times where my wife will go. She'll tell me in chinese and a group of people. You're talking a little bit do much about yourself and i'm like but they're asking me the questions that she doesn't matter take frigging breath. Have a bite of your banana bread pudding and shut your mouth. She doesn't phrase it exactly like that but she's since she's asian. The culture has a little bit less tolerance or maybe a lot less tolerance for what is kind of normal here in north america where somebody asked you about wow you got in the new york times today. Yeah let me tell you all about that. She's like no just say thank you and let it go and i'm like but i want to you know like there's a whole different different sort of measuring stick but staying connected to that has been very useful for not being an insufferable a whole all the time good for. Are you good for her. That's great again. That's a chief characteristic that you'll see when you're sitting with someone who has either narcissistic traits. It's or in a worse way. Let's say a narcissistic personality disorder and the difference again is with traits. It may show up from time to time can still be annoying if it's a full blunt personality disorder. It's there all the time there's just no room to breathe for people on the other side so i say this so often in my treatment room when my narcissistic clients clients are saying things like so. I'm supposed to feel bad that i'm doing so well said no of course not. You don't have to be sorry for doing well. You have every right to be proud of how well you've done and how hard you've worked. How lucky you've been even in your life scrape eight but it's not what makes you a lovable person. It's not what makes you someone that people wanna hang hang out with. Have a conversation with have dinner with. I mean your fans and followers. Yes the people who are trying to get all the goodies from you. Yes because you've got connections. When you've got goodies that you can share but real people who just want to be with you sit with you know you have fun with you not so much yeah. Look we get a lot of letters. There's in our feedback friday inbox where somebody goes. I talked about my promotion at the christmas dinner for five minutes m._i._s. narcissist like you know i'm dating somebody and clearly the person they're getting it's just horrible and manipulative and they're going my pathological narcissist in my theory on this and i know jason shares this if you're emailing us to say a i feel really bad about this. M i a pathological narcissists. There's a good chance you're not because i think somebody who's really pathological is either going to deny that and tried hi to turn it around. Another people or what they do is so egregious that it's really really apparent and there's sort of like these nice twenty one year old kids wondering wondering if they're narcissistic because they talked about themselves for ten minutes at a dinner or like didn't give their significant other enough of approval when they got a promotion and i got in a fight about that and that to me now that we're talking about it almost seems like a narcissist is gas lighting them and making them think that they're the problem by saying. You're narcissistic narcissistic. You don't give me enough unbridled duration. Oh yeah or the overly popularized term now has created this phenomenon which is really scary gary and again sad because you're a hundred percent right that someone who's asking oh my god. Am i being narcissistic. Hope i wasn't offensive say right right there. No you're carrying about the impact of your behavior on other people how you're coming across how it's affecting others who are in your company. No no narcissists believe that everyone just is having a great time being in their presence they don't even see the person at the social event who's completely glazed over and looking for help help and scanning the room for somebody to come rescue them from this horrible conversation that they're stuck in the corner of the room so they don't notice but someone who's really really asking the question is probably someone who has really nothing to worry about in that regard. You're listening to the jordan harbinger show with our guest wendy bahari. We'll be right back after this. This episode is sponsored in part by net sweet obviously if you don't know your numbers in your business you don't know your business the problem most growing businesses have the keeps them from knowing their numbers. Is it a hodge podge of business systems. I have like seventeen dashboards cash boards right. There's one for account and there's one for accounts receivable. There's one for outgoing. There's a run a pretty simple business. You waste a ton of time. Doing this. Net suite by oracle is business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy to use cloud platform so you get visibility you get control you save time money unneeded headaches. You don't have to manage manage sales finance and accounting in several places you get all that the h._r. The orders all that right from your desktop and your phone and they are the number one cloud business system. The thing is that as we looked at it. I remember ten years ago. We looked at it and it was easily light years ahead of everything else jason right now net suite is offering you valuable able insights with a free guide seventy strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash jordan. That's net sweet dot com slash jordan download your free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits nets dot com slash jordan. This episode is also sponsored by manscaping and i just wanna say when and we did this original read. I was like who's going to go for this. I mean we all kind of need one but the read was so silly i was a little surprised turns out a lot of years. Shaven your junk junk out there a lot. More of you are now because you all got hooked up with a lot of landscape. Products is really fun. This is like the number one men's below the belt grooming stuff and i'll say when it came in it was really high quality very impressed. The packaging was really good. There's a pun in there somewhere but they offer they offer precision engineered tools for your family jewels. I have to say that bag that it came in was definitely very soft and very usable much much like a shawn scrotum in fact a lot of us have tried this. 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Four preorder now at borderlands dot com <hes> rated m for mature nice just in case y'all haven't figured it out this video game and it looks pretty bad ass. I watched the trailer and i was like yep. This is definitely one of those switch in my mind off play a couple hours of this. I don't know if y'all know i will turn my brain off. Play a little xbox and there's nothing like it engages me enough that i can't worry about other stuff and it's fun. I don't know i thought for sure that i gave video games back in college but here we are and borland's looks red. Thank you for listening in supporting the show show. Your support of our advertisers keeps us on the air to learn more and get links to all the great discounts. You just heard so you can check out those amazing sponsors visit jordan harbinger dot com slash <unk> deals and don't forget that worksheet for today's episode. That link is in the show notes at jordan harbinger dot com slash podcast. If you're listening to us on the overcast player please click that little all star next to the episode. We really appreciate it now for the conclusion of our episode with wendy bahari. It seems obvious now in light of this conversation why people get attracted to narcissists because a lot of people go. I can't believe you dealt with this person for so long will yeah when you pile everything together but we're not seeing his how this person is so good at making other people feel good because they're getting what they want from them as a result but it also explains why narcissists are so prone own to cheating on significant others betrayal in general because they kind of can't help but look out for themselves so the calculation of g. I shouldn't steal money for my company or maybe maybe i shouldn't cheat on my wife just because i can that sort of a secondary consideration. It's not the first thing that pops up yeah and some of it is also because they're so poor in the area of real intimacy you know really connecting to another person's feelings and emotions and even sexually their capacity eighty to be truly intimate and confident in their sexual performances another problem member. It's all about them. How are they coming off. Are they doing. How are they showing up and it's a big burden to have to worry about meeting. The needs of someone else even sexually so it's not a surprise that you're going to find a tremendous number of narcissists in that heaping pile of people goal who may have sexual addictions or are looking at pornography going to chat rooms hiring prostitutes having affairs much of the time. That's not surprising surprising because there again. It's all about them. It's the pleasure is for me. I can do it on my terms. My time and i don't have to worry about pleasing anybody. I just look at the laptop or i can just hang out in the chat room or i can hire the prostitute payer money. I don't have to worry about returning the favors to anyone and it stimulating emulating their big stimulation seekers so it's highly stimulating they feel entitled to do it and it's a rush without any reciprocating so this is not surprising. How do we win with a narcissist. I mean is that even the right verb to us. I would imagine you wouldn't have a job if it was really lisi for somebody to cure them. Change them teach him a lesson through experience. This'll be a five minute podcast. You would have written a book about something else right yeah. Eh it's not easy. It's not easy and it doesn't happen. Often where you're going to see transformation in a way that is enduring we can see sometimes some quick fabricated transformations but to really see someone make change a narcissistic individual make change. That's meaningful and long lasting. It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of leverage meaning that there has to be some consequence something that they don't want to face like losing partner losing a job losing their relationship relationship with their adult children losing their driver's license something that's going to at least get them into the treatment room and then hopefully a therapist with treatment approach. That's going to be helpful to keep them in the treatment room to do the work and once you break through that outer shell that masks that they wear if you can get that kind of breakthrough and get down to the vulnerability and the insecurities three sad i mean because there's a lot of suffering underneath all of this stuff doc that they carry around and they portrayed of the world and it's very scary for them because they're hell bent on the quote unquote losing their edge in their marketplace where they have have done so well so it's hard work as a therapist. It's hard work for them to really get deep into their soul to do the work. That's necessary but it's not impossible possible. It just requires leverage. So if you don't have leverage you don't have treatment and if you don't have treatment they're not likely to change and that's not it. Just you know trying to promote therapy. They really don't change easily or at all on their own. You can have an impact impact. You can influence as a partner. You might be able to have some influence over some of the change in the relationship by using some of the strategies i've written about talked about like it can pass a confrontation. There's ways of confronting them and setting limits that can be helpful and might bring about small meaningful changes but to get a real overthrow. Throw it takes professional. Help and leverage was someone had written in. This is a while back jason. I don't know if you remember this. This woman had. I don't know if it was a boston was a colleague was clearly clearly just extremely narcissistic her tactic to get rid of him was she acted as boring as possible. She talked really monotone on she didn't give him any approval but she wasn't disapproving that threw him into a little bit of a rage so she just acted like the most boring human being in the world and he he actually just got so bored interacting with her that he decided to leave her alone because she wasn't giving him anything to work with. I thought that was kind of genius and i wonder what you think about this is or was that just one specific instance in which that might actually work well. I imagine it could work but in most cases they don't leave. They'll find other ways of entertaining themselves stimulating themselves and just become glad to not be getting bothered by a partner at home. Who's making demands are asking for anything boring wearing they'll just ignore her. Close the door. Go in the other room and find someone else to talk to find something else to do. They have no trouble occupying their time and entertaining themselves yourselves. Again is a lot of seeking of soothing stimulating activity whether it's gambling or it's drinking or drugs or it's pornography or it's sexual acting. It's just a haul ism they'll find ways of keeping themselves. Busy steering clear from the world of emotion so boring partner may not be the end of the world in some cases. It could be though if that's all they've got. Let's say they're in remote places where they don't have access to anyone else might be that boring person could drive them away but the other problem with narcissism is that at the heart of their makeup beyond this shame and this sense of insecurity he's loneliness they're very lonely people and so they don't typically leave their relationships unless they've got someone waiting in the wings so they may have like an entourage of fans and followers in which case they'll go because they've got this little groupie crowd that will follow them or they've met someone else and and so they're ready to move on but they don't usually just go if they're alone very hard for them to be alone so they'll torture the part in their living with but they're not going to necessarily necessarily leave them and go off on their own. That's sort of terrifying 'cause like oh. I can make them. Go away. Just kidding. Maybe not you have some tactics that we discussed as well one of which was the use of limit setting and it sounds a little bit similar to what we were just talking about. Can we talk about limit setting and can we talk about keeping your vulnerability out of the conflict. I think these these are useful for people that are listening right now. Go that's what's going on. I knew something was wrong with him. Yes people who are listening to this. I say straighten your back. Straighten your spine work really hard on sturdy ing yourself in your skin. Find your adult self and and keep that adult self very present when you are going to confront your narcissistic someone that's just critical because what happens is i was explaining in the beginning when we are are faced with someone who's narcissistic what happens to us as we can get relegated to a childlike state. We can feel what we might have felt when we were very small powerless and we end up then enabling them. We ended up giving in. We end up apologizing. We end up explaining ourselves tolerating things we shouldn't be instead of setting limits so to set limits in a healthy way which isn't screaming and yelling because you know you've become the person you don't wanna be who feels exhausted out of control troll instead we wanna be in our healthiest adult wisest adults position standing on a platform where you can look at the narcissist and say i know no. You're used to getting what you want when you want it. You worked really hard to have that privilege in your position at work. Your parents always told you as long as you got straight as you didn't have a curfew you could do what you want. I know that's what you're used to so. It's not your fault but it is your responsibility because it's not working in this relationship it. It doesn't work here for me so this has gotta stop. You can't talk to me like that. I'm not your assistant not that. I think you should be talking to her that way either but i'm not your assistant so it's got a straw or what says the narcissist right yeah that was going to do that yeah. What are you gonna you do if you're not ready for this because people listening will think well. I'm not ready to leave yet. I've got little kids. I don't want them left in his custody. When i'm not around to supervise he's so careless and i would say if you're not ready for that. You can just start painting the inevitable path of saying things like well. What am i gonna do. I don't know i see an inevitable. Oh entrance at some point. I can't imagine how we can sustain a relationship like this because i'm not happy now. They don't like that they make it angry. They may continue to roar. They may stomp stomp off but you have just planted an important seed by saying this and watch pay attention. See how it flowers you may. They have to say it a few more times because the persistence and the repetition is really important when you're setting limits. You can't back down you can't give in. They're gonna look for that loophole. You stand firm and you say no. I told you this is not okay. I know it's what you're used to but it's not working here and i'm done talking. I'm done talking to you when you can have a conversation with me. That's respectful. We can come back to the table but i'm done and you leave you walk away. Oh what are you gonna do. Leave me now. You know that makes makes me sad. I hope it doesn't come to that but it looks to me like we're on that inevitable path. Just keep using this language. This will hit them in their rock bottom in seoul where they are the most afraid which is of being left of failing and even of letting you down because of that superhero part of then that needs to be all things to all people so they won't tell you that but what you might see starting to happen over time the swim m._p. You can have some influence is those behaviors as edges will soften. Those behaviors may change a little bit. Maybe not your satisfaction. You may find yourself having to set the ultimate limit which is to figure out how to get out as many any people do but for some. It's not an easy solution you know because they are with children that they don't want to leave in the presence of this partner. Who is it's really not very careful. Seatbelts don't matter i can drink and drive because i've got the super mazing tolerance for alcohol things that would just make one very nervous that having their children in their care even if they happen to be good parents other times this is interesting for me because anyone anyone in a relationship has had a conversation where they've gotten that kind of gut punch at least once right in the decades or whatever that someone's been in a relationship somebody goes. Hey we're fighting a ladder. This doesn't work. I remember doing that kind of thing in college. How do we keep our own vulnerability out of the conflict. How do we stay on the high road. When conflict liked escalates because i can see it narcissistic person not just going. Oh well. You're right. They're like oh. This makes me really scared. I gotta go nuclear now right or i got to threaten nego- nuclear now. How do we retain a little bit of control because i can see somebody going. Oh i got to regain control of this and flying off the handle and then the other person kind of takes the bait. Yes glad you said that's a great question. I think that the greatest problem in confrontation most people say i'm not very good in confrontation. I don't like to confront run and especially when it comes to confronting someone who has narcissistic personality really scary. Why is it scary. Well it scary not necessarily because of what they're going to say they can go nuclear and they can get really angry. They can throw something amador. It's not what they do. That frightens us. It's how we imagine. It's going to make us feel that frightens us that. Oh my god i'm going to cave in. Oh my god. I'm going to just go to jelly. Oh no. I'm just gonna feel so awful in my body. I won't be able to tolerate it when he screams back at me and starts threatening that he's going to take the kids. I'm going to have no money or we're going to live in the poor house so oh that's why we don't confront or that's why our confrontations may fall short. Even though our initial presentation the one i was giving an example of was beautiful right was beautiful earful but we've got to be able to hang in there and remained sturdy enough so when they do blast you with a threat you just turn on your heels and walk you say please knock it off. This is not okay. Just not okay now. They get violent. Pick up the phone and call the police. Do what you have to do to protect yourself because safety is the first and foremost priority but if they're shouting in the corner there mumbling threats. They're raising their is. They're getting red in the face. You've got to do your prep porks. Here's the prep work for going into confrontation. The only way you can have that straight spine in that sturdy self in that sense of being in your adult skin is by prepping meaning getting your vulnerable self all vulnerability that relates to your most childlike powerless helpless part part of your personality. Take that part of you that wonderful precious little part of you and imagine use your powerful resource of imagination and put that part of view in an imaginary safe place. I know it sounds hokey but this is what therapists will do so i teach therapist to do when they're about to enter the treatment room mm-hmm. I get little wendy out of the way put her in a safe place tucker in somewhere imagined she's out of earshot of this doesn't mean i'm not gonna feel any triggering triggering effects. I'm not gonna have any like little gasps of breath when i'm in the middle of a difficult interaction but i'm still in my adult skin so i can speak on behalf of what i'm feeling. I might even say hey. This is making me really uncomfortable right now so now narrator right. I'm not just reacting to it. I'm narrating rating my experience. This is making me really uncomfortable right now. Oh you're just so sensitive won't maybe i am but then maybe you would be more careful if you really believed that so i'm going to leave the room now. I'm not talking with you into the state because it's making me uncomfortable. It's gonna make me start doing things that i don't want to do because it's not helpful to. You and it's not helpful to me and it's not helpful to us boom. You're done so you can narrate on behalf of yourself but you're not locked down in that horrible vulnerable helpless place because you've prepped yourself. You've anticipated certain reactions. You've tucked away. Your most vulnerable powerless often reminded yourself that <music>. I'm an adult. I have rights. I have options. I have a voice i can speak. I can say what so so in closing here. I would love to know why do we need to spend so much time. Understanding why a narcissist is put together in a certain way i mean why do i have to freak and study other people's pathology just to get by. It almost seems unfair air. I understood a kind of academically but it seems a little bit annoying that i have to suddenly become an expert in someone else's psychology to navigate the relationship yet. It is a little unfair in the and you're right and you don't have to do anything i would just say that there's a lot of value to be gained from understanding this very very complicated personality. The more you know about the way they're put together and why they do what they do. The more you become armed with ways of protecting detecting yourself of not blaming yourself not doubting in second guessing yourself on everything as much as you might say when you're in the middle of an angry the moment of even self righteousness healthy self righteousness you might say i know it's not my fault. I know i'm not to blame for those affairs and for that horrible behavior you know to be able to say it from anger and to be able to say it from a steady sturdy posture two different things you want to be able to know it from your sturdy bestself. You wanna make all decisions from your healthy. Wisest self and those decisions are greatly informed by your knowledge of what's happening happening with this person that you're up against the more you understand this meaning empathy which is understanding really getting it. You are not at risk risk then for self sacrificing for allowing yourself to be subjugated for self blame and for self doubt so you become emancipated through that acknowledge wendy bahari. Thank you so much really useful a little scary but also i think mostly gives insight into what we might be dealing with and what we might not be dealing with right if we're just throwing the word around but yeah i love the insight into this world and i think it is fascinating and i think it will help a lot of people see some red flags early early enough that they can just cut and run if needed thank you to organise real pleasure to be with you great big. Thank you to wendy bahari. The book title is is disarming the narcissistic surprising to me though that a little bit of narcissism is good for you. I guess that's a good sign for those of us. That find ourselves acting like selfish little children here in inherit. I mean not to point any fingers or thumbs so all the links to her stuff will be in the show notes. We're teaching you how connect with great people and manage relationships using systems in tiny habits over at our six minute networking course which is free over at jordan harbinger dot com slash course course now. I know you wanna do it later but the problem with putting this off procrastination leads to stagnation when it comes to your personal and business relationships so don't kick that can down the road the number one mistake. I see people make is not digging the well before you get thirsty once. You need these relationships. You're just too late to make him. The drills. Take a few minutes per day. I wish i knew this stuff twenty years ago. Oh this is crucial and you ignore it. At your own peril. You can find it all for free at jordan harbinger dot com slash course and by the way most of the guests here on the show they subscribe to of course in the newsletter so come join us and you'll be great company speaking of building relationships you can always reach out and or follow us on social at jordan harbinger on both twitter and instagram graham and the show is produced in association with podcast one. This episode was co produced by jason to filipo and jen harbinger shirts worksheets by robert fogerty music by evan viola. Uh and i'm your host jordan harbinger. Our advice and opinions and those of our guests are their own and yes. I'm a lawyer but i'm not your lawyer. Sue your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show and remember we rise by lifting others. The fee for this show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful which should be every episode so please share the show with those you love. You've and even those you don't in the meantime. Do your best to apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you listen and we'll see you next time.

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How David Scarpa Turned Dysfunction Into Drama | 5

Even the Rich

40:45 min | 2 months ago

How David Scarpa Turned Dysfunction Into Drama | 5

"From wondering I'm Brooks Ephron and I'm arenas, skidmore Williams, and this is even the rich. If spending four episodes with the Getty family has taught me anything, it's that inheriting gigantic fortune is not all. It's cracked up to be yeah I. totally wouldn't want to inherit billions even if it meant losing ear, I mean if we can change an ear to Pinkie Toe, I'm totally in. Okay Arusha this week. I've got a surprise for you or go into the movies I think theaters are still closed. Okay, not literally. I'M GONNA. Be Talking to a screen writer named David SCARPA. He wrote the two thousand seventeen film about the kidnapping called all the money in the world. It stars Mark Wahlberg as Fletcher Chase. Michelle Williams as Gail and Christopher plummer as j Paul Getty hang on. Wasn't this the movie they had to reshoot at the last minute to cut out Kevin. Spacey Check you out film buff. My conversation with David isn't really about that. It's about why the getty family is so dysfunctional. Why J. Paul Getty is pretty much straight out of Shakespeare and my the kidnappers aren't the real villains in the story plot twist. The real villain is JP's pet lion cook. Knock quite. Even the richest partnering with Ventura Watches and we could not be more excited. You know usually finding accessories that are stylish, bold and built to last can cost a pretty penny. Then chair watches is changing that they believe you deserve to look good. No matter your budget feeling like the best version of yourself extends all the way down to the way you dress and I love that with these watches. You don't have to break the bank to step it up a bit. The team over Venturo Santa some watches and let me tell you they are stunning. Yeah, I we. I should say we right. We got the show. We got the same watch of, and it's just rose gold, Mash band with a black face and I wear it all the time. It doesn't. It doesn't irritate my skin, and it's just so pretty. It is I saw it and I was like Yep. I will take that one. please. I loved immediately. No matter who you are what your style is how old you are or where you live. We all have those moments when we want to look our. Our best in Standout Ventura watches are beautiful statement pieces that will last, plus they offer free shipping thirty day returns, and they guarantee your watch for two years exclusively for our listeners, Venturo is offering an extra twenty percents off. They're already affordable watches go to Ventura watches dot, com backslash, rich, and the code rich will be auto applied checkout. It's that easy. That's V. I n.. C. E. R. O. Watches Com backslash, rich for an extra twenty percent off. David, we are so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me now. I just want to start by asking how you came to write the movie all the money in the world. Did you find the story? Did it kind of find you? A producer named Quinn Curtis of British producer I ran into him at sort of a greasy spoon diner kind of place here, Santa Monica and he said to me I've got this chapter from a book called painfully rich by John Pearson and it's about the getty kidnapping, and I said well okay. That's you know I about that I know about the era at Sarah and he says. Says well an interesting thing about it was the jay-paul Getty three was kidnapped, and when the kidnappers demanded fourteen million dollars ransom, which was a some that Gatty is a billionaire could have easily paid. He refused to pay the ransom and to me that had the seeds of Shakespearian drama or Shakespearean tragedy. I find it most dramatically interesting when characters do things that intuitively don't make sets that had that are not are not what we would do, or what any normal person that requires some form of explanation and the idea that a ninety odd year old guy who has only X. number of years of his life that he can't spare what to him. His pocket change for the life of his grandson. Ultimately raises all kinds of dramatic questions, but ultimately what made it really interesting was in movies. We rarely deal with money money. Is this incredibly powerful thwarts in people's lives, and this is most obvious in the lives of poor people, it creates all kinds of constraints in terms of their healthcare and their education and their opportunities. It shapes your life, but it also shapes the lives of the wealthy, and so it's this course that has the power to to twist people, and that's a subject that I had not really necessarily scene depicted in movies. Movies before and so in a sense, the idea of the entire movie is the villain of the movie is not getty. Getty is arguably simply tragic figure villain of the movie is money, and every character in it is in some way wrestling with their fantasy of what money will bring them. What money will free them from in Getty's mind? Money represented a kind of security or possibly love for Chin. Quanta it represents freedom and the ability to sort of overcome the poverty that he came from for Gail. It represented initially some sort of. Possibly just an ordinary fantasy of just having fun and going to Europe and eventually her relationship with it changes over time, but we even get for instance. A chase visits, the Communists, the Communist Red Brigades were doing all these kidnappings and the nineteen seventies. In Italy you know, and even they are completely obsessed with money you know, and as they say, it's not that we don't care about money. We do care about money. We simply think it's wrong hats, so it's this force that runs throughout our lives. And yet it's an illusion and that to me had the seeds in it. Of tragedy now the kidnapping took place fifty years ago in a foreign country as everyone. Listening to this knows but there so many details in the film that bring the past to life. You bring that time to life. A lot of that came. I think from Ridley as much as anything which was sort of production design and I think there was a different ethic then. Revolving how people behave with regard to children and I think that all really came out of the research. Now I've always wondered something about movies like this one that are inspired by events as a screenwriter. How do you decide when to stick to the facts and went to invent for story purposes? There's a certain amount of dramatic license that you're going to have to take no matter what, so it's a question of where you set the boundary on that license. In my case, I try to route something in some event that I find in the research. Allow myself to dramatically create that from there, but I try not to create anything from whole cloth, and I think the parameters that are set by A. A real event kind of force you to be creative in that sense, they force you to to come up with novel ways of depicting those situations right now. Let's go a little bit deeper into some of those decisions. Can you think of any moments in the film where you did alter the truth in order to make the story better I know specifically, the dynamic between chase and gail was very different. Yeah the dynamic between Gail and chase was much more hostile probably, and there was more to be played there. Perhaps and you know another thing I think was the timeframe for instance from when Paul came back to win. Getty died We basically played it. As if those two events the kit that he is a scape and get death were essentially playing out in the same timeframe, when in reality, getty died about two years later I think there were other instances where and this is an example of the kind. Kind of license. You take you know. There was a story in which Paul escaped from captivity, and he sort of set this barn on fire, where he is being kept any got away and was discovered by the side of the road, one of the bits of license that we took was he's found by the side of the road by police officer, and then thinks that he's safe, and actually calls his mother and manages to speak to her before the gang that kidnapped him is brought in by the corrupt cop. And in reality I think it was, he eventually was founded discovered, or was unable to so what we did was depict his plan as if he got a little bit further into it, then he actually did. Yeah now earlier. You mentioned how research informed you're writing. The film is of course based on John Pearson's book all the money in the world, but I'm curious to know how else you research this story I I. Think John Pearson's book was really the jumping off point for for where we started. It was really a chapter from John Pearson's book more than anything. That was what the producers had originally option, but that book was eventually almost superseded. If you will by a later book, called Common Youth, the came out that was written by a close friend of the jetties that really got very deeply into the getty families own personal narratives, and then there were also first person. Person Accounts that we were able to get from people who are involved with the case. ETC, we were able to do original us a little bit of original research in terms of out things unfolded. Can you tell me a little bit about those first person accounts? Is there anybody specifically that you spoke to? We spoke to an FBI agent who actually was part of the case. It was little known. I think that the FBI was involved. Even in Italy I, don't think they necessarily did too much. Accomplish too much but but there was some involvement there, so it was simply another perspective. There were also people sort of the that were in the getty circles that. That we're able to speak to that, we simply new from here in Los Angeles that we were able to get anecdotal stories about now. Of course, any great story is filled with great characters. Who did you find most fascinating in this story? And why do you think that was ultimately? Getty is the most fascinating because this is clearly a Shakespearean kind of figure who is really in the thrall of money. He is in a sense in addicted to money, and he's gathered a fortune with the idea that it would bring him power, and ultimately money itself has power over him eventually he becomes powerless before it. What was ultimately tragic about it is? This isn't the story of A. A man who didn't love his grandson, and didn't care about him, but the loved him very deeply, and yet was unable to part with the money in order to bring him back now. Let's talk a little bit more about getty. He was a bit of a miscreant and his youth, and then he rose to great power, and then the movie alludes to his business dealings in the Middle East. He was the first guy who figured out how to bring oil out of the desert. How did he do that I believe he made a deal with the Kuwaiti with the Bedouins. The Kuwaiti royal family. He struck a series of of bargains that allowed him to gain that contract. That was really his his coup. Now. There's a moment in the film where Getty takes his grandson Paul to see Emperor Hadrian's villa and getty starts talking about how he is Hadrian reincarnated. What is his deal with? A very big emperor obsession. What what is the deal with that? It's interesting to to think about getty's relationship to art. And there's another aspect of of the man that makes him so fascinating, which is as much as he would seem to have been sort of craven, crass and completely dedicated to money. He also clearly had a passion for beauty. And and understood art on a certain level when people who knew him talk about him as a collector one of the things they say that he had a good eye, but ultimately he was somebody who could not. Had Sort of limited collection because he could never bring himself to overpay for anything, he always had to bargain for things. And became convinced that. Somehow through his connection to it that he himself was the reincarnation of the Emperor Hadrian, and maybe that came from some sort of sense of of of his own destiny, or through a connection to to Roman art, but it really. Was An interesting sort of spiritual side to? You know what you're talking about. Reminds me of the line in the movie where he says there's a purity to beautiful things that I've never been able to find an another human being. It sounds to me like you're suggesting he collected are really to fill a void. Yeah, I mean it's interesting. In terms of the origins of of the getty art collection, you know all this rises out of the Getty Trust which is his mother After his father died, his mother left him the family fortune, but she didn't trust me was a near do well, so she left all of the family's fortune in a trust and he could manage the money inside the trust, but he couldn't take it out. And this proved to have huge tax advantages for him because it was tax sheltered, so what quickly? Or soon discovered was that even though he couldn't spend the money on himself, necessarily he could buy things inside the trust. He could buy antiques, and they were considered investment, so it's as if rather than buying stocks bonds in the. He was able to buy an antique desk. He was able to buy an antique or more or something like that, and so soon he was able to start collecting these as assets, and he initially took an interest in furniture because he saw those is undervalued assets the way you'd see them as undervalued stocks for instance, and so he went out amassing this fantastic collection of of furniture. And that seemed to have spawned a relationship to the objects themselves. What initially was just simply an investment decision eventually turned. This acquisition frenzy and eventually he came to develop a relationship to his collection. Of collectors to? But what it says is that you know. He did the relationship that he had with the things he owned, was ultimately much more understandable and comprehensible to him that his relationship to human beings. Could betray him. That could turn on him. I mean that I mean this is something that you see with wealthy people in general, which is they never really know what people love them for and he certainly didn't. Now I mean getty does seem very cold and sometimes cruel. Do you think he was lovable? Did he give anyone a reason to love him? He was somebody who was fundamentally deeply afraid, and those fears manifested themselves in many ways I think ultimately his drive to amass wealth was driven by this as well one of the things that that struck me in the course of writing this was I ran across a quote from a billionaire who said that he could never really feel safe unless he had a minimum of a billion dollars. Now there's with multi-billionaire. It was just sort of remarkable, because most of us have that kind of number in our head, right whatever it is meaning positive bank account ballots, or paying off credit cards or whatever that may be. All of us have sort of a number where we where we feel secure, or we think hypothetically we think we would feel secure and the fascinating thing is that number Moose and in the case of the very wealthy that number can move to a an incredible amount particularly if you have a void if you fundamentally feel unsafe. As a human being that number that will make you feel safe is always slightly out of reach, and I think that was part of the case with Geddy which is. There was the sense that well if I lost, and there's a point later in the movie where he says this it's it's what if I were to suffer of sort of market declining right, I mean there's a point in the movie where he's making a vast fortune, because the price of oil is skyrocketing, even while his grandson is in captivity, instead of saying my God I've made more money today than the entire ransom is made in the last fifteen minutes in the oil market. Then the my grandson will take. That number. 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Chase was partly involved with some of his dealings in the Middle East, but a big part of that relationship was founded on the idea that chase had been in the CIA and I think that there was a romance that getty had for for a man of action a man of with the mystique of the CIA around him, and Getty simply collected him as he would collect a piece award and because there was a financial relationship there I think he felt very comfortable with people that he was paying because. There was a sense of ownership there and so he was able to collect chase, just as he collected any antique or piece of artwork, and and and forge relationship with in that way that he knew was under control. Yeah. That's that's really interesting. Actually that you say that about the real man in the fictional character kind of blending in your mind, and honestly even watching the movie that happened to me I've done for episodes about this family and I'm like wait. Did that happen and did I forget? That happen to you often do characters kinda start to seem real to you? Yeah, I mean they definitely you. I think you take little anecdotes that you find telling. And then they eventually start to become that person in your mind, so there are aspects of the real chase. The real chase I think was in many ways just as it. Let's call it just as interesting is. The character is depicted onscreen in that he was a bit. He was out of his depth. Clearly, he was not the man for the job. He was somebody who thought. Thought very highly of himself and thought he was capable of doing it, but was very tied up in his own ego, and therefore was really very limited in terms of his ability to manage the situation and part of the tragedy of the kidnapping comes about through both getty's limitations as a human being and through Fletcher, chases limitations as a human being in terms of not being able to see patsy past the range of his own of his own abilities and his own knowledge, these are both men who were ultimately I, think deeply mistrustful of. Others particularly of women, they were both quick prepared to mistrust gale, and that was part of the personal limitation that ultimately led to this tragedy. I definitely had some bones to pick with Fletcher Chase, when he when we were telling this story, and then I was like. Is Mark Wahlberg making me like Fletcher Chase now I'm so confused my own feelings. That's that's the nature of of making a movie with a movie star you know is that things inevitably SORTA? Take take a certain shape I'm now. Let's talk about Getty's actual son. Paul Junior who is another great character in your film at I? He seems like this upstanding guy. Great has been great father, but then after gale split he loves to Morocco and loses himself in drugs. Can you describe that time in his life? One of the challenges of writing a movie by the way about this is when when you have three different major characters, and they all have the same name. It's a very difficult. There's J. Paul Getty one J. Paul Gerry, J., Paul, getting, three And inside the family they were known as John Paul Getty then there's JP. To who I believe was big Paul, and then there's little Paul who is the son who is kidnapped one of the things it's pretty clear, and this is an interesting sort of subtext in all of these stories about the wealthy which is, we tend to tend to have this idea that all of their failings come out of their wealth. and. This is part of the I'm sure on your show. You've talked a lot about the getty curse which is this idea that the the gettys as a clam? An extended clan of at any number of tragedies befall them, etc, and there's this idea that we all want that comes out of Schadenfreude in a sense or subconsciously WanNa. Believe which is that money brings tragedy upon people or something like that, and there's a basic reality which is you know? All you while there's a certain amount of that. It's clear that these were people who had genetic substance abuse. Problems They would have had them. Had they been born poor? They would have had them. If they have been born rich or middle class. It's possible that in the case of both little Paul and John Paul to that had they have little middle class life and hold down a job and you know pay the mortgage and pay the bills that that would have. Have given them more of a structure or would have forced them into confrontation with their problems a lot faster, and maybe their lives would have taken a different path, but it's also entirely possible that these are people who are under a lot of circumstances would have wound up on the streets. You know so it's I I mean if they have been. Been Born poor a lot of them frankly a lot of people that we see on a regular basis. The homeless people in here in Los Angeles that that are suffering from these these kind of substance abuse problems. I think there's a dynamic relationship for these characters between their relationship with their money and the people they would have been under other circumstances. Circumstances we actually didn't discuss the getty curse in the series. So that's that's really interesting to hear that the getty curses an idea that people love to talk about you know with regard to this family, because so much has befall them, and again part of this came out of the Times that they lived in which is J.. Pizza was often mirror cash. Hanging out with Mick Jagger living in a palace and very very druggy taught, so if you are somebody who had a predilection towards drug addiction. You're going to. You're going to run into trouble very quickly. There are members of the extended family that have suffered the case of George Getty who really was. kind of raised as the CY on the heir to the throne, get his heir to the throne, and ultimately wound up being belittle than. By Getty to the point, where he ultimately committed suicide by stabbing himself in the chest repeatedly, and then there's the another son who was born with with some form of any number of congenital problems, and getty simply rejected them completely, and the boy was constantly writing letters to his father, imploring him to come spend time with him, and Getty simply rejected all of them. and cut him off. Completely would have nothing to do with them, and again I mean part of it as you can see that as getty being incredibly cold or unfeeling but another. Vantage, point on it! Is that again? This was a man who is deeply afraid and any contact with vulnerability being beate your JP threes, kidnapping or Timothy's a congenital problems health problems. He was terrified of them, and so he can have contact with anything that might frighten you. We talk about race all the time. We do as a Puerto. Rican Iranian a Persia Regan at is a black man trying to navigate life in the US who we are has a huge impact on every aspect of our lives I'm sure Ian Mighty solemn Raji Numb Gene Debbie, and where the host of NPR's codes, which our weekly podcast explores race and identity from all angles, history, politics, relationships, sports, pop, culture, and more so come through fine coats, which were ever get pass. Now, let's talk a little bit about Gail She strikes me as a really strong woman especially in the film. How do you see gale in this whole story in every narrative that I've encountered? She comes off very sympathetically and I've actually known people here in La. We eventually screened the movie for her and she said she liked it. Although that might have been relief on her part more than anything else, but or at least she wasn't deeply upset or offended by it. but I think a lot of that came out of perhaps out of protectiveness for her son. And when we were making the movie, we were very. Very important to us to respect her and to respect J. P. Three and show them as human beings I think in a sense we I mean. I don't not necessarily sure. She was thrilled that the movie got made. But I in some sense I think that at least by showing that degree of respect towards her son that. She was okay with it. She somebody in a sense is the through line to the movie. Because arguably she's us. She's our point of view, and you can see the entire movie as the story of Gail and her relationship to money, she is confronted with a kind of fantasy that what many people would see as a fantasy which is you're married into a? A very wealthy family, and why wouldn't you simply go off to Europe to be with them? You know to go on a trip. And in reality she wound up going on cruises with J I and got to know him and became part of this family and over time. Did she realize that this fortune was poisonous eventually when she divorced JP to really? Took a settlement that by today's standards endorsed settlement that by today's standards would have been really paltry. She really didn't take. I believe a a any kind of lump sum cash settlement, and she really only took alimony and child support to the extent that she was able to rent. An apartment in row didn't own it or anything like that, so arguably from our standpoint in terms of making the movie. I would argue that she probably did this because she really wanted nothing to. She had she experienced. Experienced the getty fortune and wanted nothing to do with it, and somehow wanted to sever her own children from it because they have this biological connection because they had the name, it wasn't that easy to separate herself from the, and that also leads to a set of problems, which is in spite of the fact that she didn't doesn't have any real money. Everybody thinks she does and that means that the Italian press is turning against her right. She has the money. Of course you know and and. And nobody is prepared to believe that she doesn't have it so now. Even in the course of trying to separate herself from money, she is now further ex further entangled in it, and over the course of the story, it really eventually comes to the place where she learns to reconcile learns to control this fortune as opposed to being controlled by it. And learns to make this idea work for her the idea that she has this fortune his ultimately the key which is, she's able to actually become the allusion of money is as almost as good as as the money itself in terms of negotiating with her son's kidnappers, and is ultimately able to to gain a degree of control over it now. There's the scene in the film that you you've already mentioned about gaels dictating this letter to her husband and she said something like is that. That how rich people talk and clearly she knows more about the trappings of wealth, and he does, and the irony of course is that he's an heir to the greatest fortune of all time, but there's an interesting tension between new money and old money, or between wealth and class in the movie that I I'd never really considered before, and you kind of touched on that a little bit. Yea, I mean wealth and class in the sense of classes. Arguably the is something beyond money, right, yeah! Yeah I mean I think that may have been an offhand joe again. That's a sort of a fictionalized reference I. Don't know necessarily that she had she came. She came from a well off. What we call a well off background, but not a vastly wealthy background and there's a there's a difference there. You know there's a proximity there, but there's also a difference between the. The two and that's also the nature of American wealth in Great Britain. There is an aristocracy in America. We don't have an air stock REC- we in May, we simply have wealth we have. We have arguably America's Status Society as opposed to a class society, right? It's about what you are now. It's not about what you were four hundred years ago in Great Britain if If you're the son of a plumber. It doesn't matter how rich you get. You'll always be the son of a plumber, whereas in the united. States. If you're rich now you're rich but at the same time there is the illusion of money here, which is incredibly powerful, which goes beyond a bank account balance, or whatever else in the people who are able to marshal that. That illusion such as for instance Donald Trump arguably I would argue to you that Donald Trump. Probably has a negative net worth in reality. Once you subtract his debts from his assets, and yet he's been able to manip-. His clearly gone bankrupt many times he's clearly been able to manipulate the of wealth such that a certain number of people by and associated with power. The, biggest outstanding question in this story and it's something that we discussed quite a bit. in our show is whether Paul and Gail were complicit in the kidnapping now. Your film suggests that they weren't what led you to that conclusion The book uncommon youth was probably the most recent book on the case was really strung together out of out of a number of first person narratives, and it makes a very persuasive and nuanced case that Jay Pete three was a rebel with all kinds of substance, abuse problems, who was often floating around in the streets of Rome and hanging around with an interesting cast of people, Andy Warhol Roman Polanski while also sort of floating around with mobsters and in doing so sort of. flippant attitude towards his wealth his family's wealth, and was probably the crop came about as a result of his relationship to it in the fact that other people knew about it. His last name was getty, and so that was arguably his point of access to all of these famous people these glamorous. Look Dolce Vita crowd that was running around in in Rome and talked very loosely. You know and one of the things he talked about was. Hey would be great if I just got myself kidnapped. And then we could get my grandfather to pay pay us some money because obviously his mother had not much money, and she didn't give him any money, so he was. He was this kid who had a name, but he. He didn't have two cents to his name on the streets. Of Rome, so this was just sort of loose talk on his part and yet this created ideas it gave people ideas, and at the time in Rome there was a rash of kidnappings the idea that once he put that idea out there in the water, somebody some shark once the blood was in the water. Some Shark was point to to come for him. Final question. Do you ever go to the Getty Museum? And what do you think about when you're there? I mean a lot of people who go probably don't know this story, and the the depths of it. Is it different for you? If you do go, I'd go to the Getty Museum all the time I go. Both Getty's one of which is in in Brentwood I actually worked when I was young. Struggling screenwriter I worked on the construction site of the original Getty Museum of the Richard Meier Getty Museum and went up there a lot while it was being built and observed. Observed as the travertine marble was being brought in and I think they're both remarkable, wonderful, incredible buildings and I think there's a lot that needs to be said by the way on behalf of the Getty family and the Getty Trust. There's a whole story to tell about how those buildings in those institutions rose out of this one act of trust on the of Getty's mother, which was the decision to encapsulate this fortune in this tax advantage trust that he couldn't touch that then leads to his art collection that then eventually snowballs through his own talent as an investor into this vast. Fortune that ultimately becomes an enormous force I mean literally became in the art world at least in the late nineteenth to early two thousands, that fortune was a kind of a distorting force in the art market itself, which is the getty trust had to invest a certain amount of its returns every year in order to keep its tax advantaged status head to reinvest that a certain amount. Let's call it percent or something like that, and that meant that they had to go out and buy masterpieces, and in what it meant was that none of the other museums in the world were able to compete on that level. They were able to buy then Gawk Cetera when they came. Came on the market they were able to outbid them and essentially sort of become this black hole for art that was able to to bring all that art to the getty. The fact that all that is is available to us in Los Angeles and to be able to take part in that, and as open to the public, and that it's open to the public for free is an incredible gift. It's an unintentional Gif. What would think is that this is the result of some incredible act of generosity on the part of J. Paul Getty to the people of Los. Angeles, when in reality, it's kind of this strange outgrowth of our tax code system. You know and and. The way this trust was set up, but it's an interesting benefit. Thank you again so much for being here. You gave us so much good information that we didn't cover before and we are very grateful for that. Thank you guys. Thanks again to David SCARPA. If you haven't seen it, you should totally watch all the money in the world on our next episode. We're leaving the getty family behind I'll be speaking with Sarah Ellison a reporter for the Washington, post about the occasionally ridiculous behavior of Uber Rich Silicon Valley techies. If you like our show, please give us a five star, rating and review. Review and be sure to tell your friends subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify the wondering APP or wherever you're listening right now. Join wondering plus in the wondering APP to listen Ad Free. The episode notes you'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them another way you can support. The show is by filling out a small survey at wondering dot. com slash. I'm Risha skidmore Williams and brooks different. This episode was produced by Lea Hernandez. Caleb singers, our associate producer audio assistance by Jake Gorski. producers are Stephanie Jen's Marshal Louis and Hernan Lopez for wondering. So. I'm Lindsey Graham host of wondrous show American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies and US history presidential lies environmental disasters corporate fraud in our new series. We head back to the nineteen nineties when big tobacco face a day of reckoning, whistleblowers came forward exposed countless lives about cigarettes, addiction and cancer, but the tobacco industry fought back and soon found itself at the center of a legal battle that would change history. Subscribe to American scandal on pop cast spotify or listen ad free in the wondering APP.

Getty Trust J. Paul Getty getty Getty kidnapping the Times Gail John Paul John Paul Getty Fletcher Chase George Getty Los Angeles Getty Trust Getty Museum David SCARPA producer getty fortune Ventura John Pearson Risha skidmore Williams
#23 - Karen Hellman on Oscar Rejlander

The Artword Podcast

24:45 min | 7 months ago

#23 - Karen Hellman on Oscar Rejlander

"Hello everyone and welcome to the outward podcast this Jenny. Danielson and I am going to speak with Karen Hellman. She is a curator at the Getty Museum and we talk about Swedish photographer Swedish. You would pronounce his name. Something like a scattered lately. I don't really know how to say it in English. But anyway He was born in Stockholm Sweden but then in the thirties not the UK and we started talking and Carrizo talking about what it was like to be if talk refer in the eighteen fifties so this is really very much in the beginning with the medium of talk. Do People joined the thanks for listening So at that time. Eighteen fifties photography was this new medium. It's been announced in the late eighteen thirty so just a couple of decades into its existence as there was still a lot of controversy about weather was an art form. What it could do as a medium Could it be in the same room even or gallery as as fine art as painting drawing It was seen as very mechanical and that because it came from a camera and not from the hand of a Ping tred or draughtsman but there were a lot of sort of arguments for both sides but eighteen fifties was kind of remarkable and England. Because that was when a lot of photographic societies were four main and a lot of photographers. Were getting together as a collective to kind of write about and talk about their medium. What were the kind of incredible things you could do with it? What are the things that still needed to be research? What was the future of this medium? All these questions were being battled and disgust and so it was a very vibrant time period and then again still kind of in as to what was an art photograph or does is there an art photographs. Oh and rylander comes in. He's coming as an artist and bringing his background as an artist and is sort of looking at this medium without restriction. You know what can I do with this new tool? And how can I play with it? Like I would with a painting or drawing. He was at a unique in that way and that he was very creative and uninhibited by the restrictions. I think a lot of the photographers at that time. Were looking for sort of reasons to say no to things or this is the way we're supposed to do things and this is the correct kind of photography. Maybe also because he wasn't British born he was he was an outsider. He was Nemo Grant and she didn't necessarily need to conform to the rules that were being established. But so did you do well. He did he did and he didn't so is because that's the other interesting thing about him as he's he's not this big success story. He became very well known and well liked in the sort of immediate circles. He was working in But then when he presents his two ways of life at the Manchester Art Treasures Exhibition Eighteen. Fifty seven he establishes you know a name for himself and he's definitely well known at this point and because of that photograph but he's also disliked by a lot of the photographic community because again it kind of hit at a moment when there were developing these ideas of what photography had to be or what it should do And he was more on the path of what photography could do possibly and they didn't really respond to it very well because it was a different path and what a lot of photographers had been following idea of. The photograph is being truthful to nature and That you can imitate painting. But it can't rival it. And he is two ways of life and his other combination. Prince were something that just hadn't been attempted on that kind of scale. And what are those? The combination friends comes up along right so this is not a technical term. Would it is an US afterwards. Saying Commission Printer. It's a technical term that was used at the time Initially it was called double printing. It basically meant to print multiple negatives onto one piece of paper. And he wasn't the first to do this but he was certainly the first to do it. In on an epic scale and in such a kind of radical way with the two ways of life you know a lot of his earlier combination prints were from three or four negatives than the two ways of life is about thirty two negatives and it was a mixture of both the the technical achievement Which actually a lot of photographers responded. Really well to saying wow. This is incredible that someone could do this but it was also the subject matter and the fact that there were These kinds of The subject of the nude female particularly was Very disturbing to a lot of the audiences and And then in addition to that a lot of photographers that just didn't like the way that it looked so artificial so crafted because again they were more on this line of trying to make a more not realistic truthful photograph And he was making the a very met strong case for the fact that photography could be extremely manipulable Are you know can be manipulated on a scale? That was probably just? They weren't ready for it now. Of course I mean we don't think about it but at the minute while yeah so much happen. Yeah I'm so he. He worked in a studio pretty much. Yeah Yeah and that's what's incredible as When eighteen fifty seventy made the two ways of life his studio was a small Originally his painting studio in Wolverhampton and That was the those kinds of constraints was initially. What may be made him sort of go. Overboard in terms of the The compositions so he he made several different negatives in the studio and then would actually scale them when he was printing them onto the sheet to even then kind of expand the space within the photographs. So that the whole composition has meant to look like it's in one room but it's actually concocted out of One huge space. But it's concocted a very small space over with thirty different negatives so It's pretty incredible. It's it's an I mean we don't need to just focus on two ways of life bent on 'em because his other combination prints are remarkable to Just the fact that he really didn't stop at at the at the thought that photography had to be about something that actually existed he. Was you know sort of plowed right through that idea and went straight? I I could make any picture. I want to basically and photography doesn't have to be limited to reality so We have to talk about his wife. She's in the studio. She's important but so did he have colleagues did do we know. Did he write about his experience? Really? Yeah did you keep a diary today of us as we know? We don't know that he did not keep a diary although he had there are several reports that have been that were published at the time and then after his death in eighteen seventy five that sort of remembered him and recounted various stories of the way he would Be just very Exuberant and energetic in his studio. He was constantly working constantly sharing his photographs constantly so he was meeting with people. There's a great article by Ah Wall is a friend of his and of an artist and photographer who talks about this one meeting. He had with some of his colleagues and Rylander and how he showed up with all these photographs and just lay them out on the table to share and to show them and talk about them so he was sociable. He also had a lot of friendships within The theatrical community because his wife Mary was was an actress and So it's presumed that that's how he really sort of new a lot of the Actors and members of the Wolverhampton and London. Theatrical World Am and then with photography he also was very connected with Julia Margaret Cameron and Lewis Carroll and photographers that we probably are more familiar with than rylander himself but He was actually someone that apparently encouraged them both in their early photographic explorations and so. That's something that's kind of interesting. He was very clearly not a hermit and not off on his own. He was very much engaged and had colleagues that he worked with and top two. But he's somehow got forgotten about but when you read these stories about him You know they're they're incredibly specific and They paint a really like lively engaged. Picture of him And I think that's how he got the photographs as well that he was wasn't the a quiet still photographer would actually engage with the sitter and move them around sort of Get them into certain positions without them knowing about it. And and just Was a very playful proactive photographer. I would really wish we could. We could have met him but I I'm judging by his photographs. I think he was fun. Yes yeah and he staged just all these children and they play. It's something very playful right and you don't. Yeah I think in another of his friends even described him as a Child among children he was He himself would you know especially when he was photographing children which was why he was so became known for that particular subject but he would actually act out Different you know Goofy Gabe. Brilliant and then get them to respond and get them to relax and sort of forget that they're in this situation. That's sort of awkward. Where you have this camera in the room and someone photographing you and your men to stay still and things like that so he really broke those boundaries to And Yeah that you can even see it in some of the photographs that he's in because of course he and his wife are many of the photographs which is also a kind of remarkable thing you can see his kind of his Way of presenting himself and different gestures and expressions is disparity emotiv and said that Must have helped when he was trying to get someone else to do it For his camera and yes the nuts go to marry. She was an actress. Yes for beautiful Yeah Yeah She worked in the studio with him. do we know of she do they collaborate what she more of an assistant to be. No anything we can We do know that. She assisted him in making the the sensitive plates he. She assisted him in the dark room. and we do we can kind of surmise. That she did help him with several of the exposures that he's in So there's one particularly Did she I think was is one. That's in the exhibition where you see. Rylander himself behind the model so She is the photographer of that particular picture. But I think it's just wonderful story of Collaboration and What's striking is just the longevity of it. I mean of course their marriage but also there seemingly kind of Fluid way of working together. She being a lot of the times model but also being a supporter in terms of of the Labor involved with running a photography studio 'em because there's a lot obviously that goes on behind the scenes Preparing the plates and Processing the plates making the Prince Even just a downturn supplying water for the darkroom She I knew she was involved with that and was helpful. That so it's I like. The exhibition BEGINS THERE. That it's not something that you discover later on in the story that the actually one of the first sections you encounter is called. Oscar and Mary and It shows the fact that they were very much involved in creating the pictures that he Created in that she was a frequent model and that he Kind of worked with her in the studio And I like that idea of sort of starting off retrospective on a on a on a male photographer Right away to say it wasn't just him in the dark room and he would be the first to also say that if he were still around. But you know that that It wasn't one person it was always to people at least Working on His photographs because during this time everything is quite heavy and Labor into yes yes. Yeah I mean you're dealing with Glass plates That need to be kept in the dark. And then and sensitized and putting the camera at a large camera large box camera on a Tripod. So it's Nothing like the quick point and shoots today and so you. You definitely need other hands helping you handle all that material plus Rylander famously at didn't take many lessons. He even admitted later that he only Went to study with a known photographer for three hours one afternoon when he was just starting out and then he just kind of took it from there and so I don't he wasn't a stickler for perfect negatives imperfect prints And he certainly Probably did need some help in terms of Working the darker because he didn't have He didn't a lot of training in it but he still he made these incredibly inventive Photographs so and I also like that about Mary Oscar. Mary's story kind of continues through the show so that From the very beginning and at the very end you see them together and Once you've recognized her you see how often. She appears in his photographs. And it's like this familiar face that keeps coming back. It's a really nice story. There I think so when he died in eighteen seventy five. What happened to his archive right? So then Mary actually took over. The studio was running it for a while and making prints from his negatives and selling them and then It's a little bit unclear. She does remarry And continues the studio practice but is Financially not doing well so it's actually members of the Royal Photographic Society that Purchase several of Rhode Islanders negatives. That's why they're In the Royal Photographic Society collection at the Vienna now And they do that to kind of support her financially and then otherwise the prince really. Just kind of get dispersed She moves on and we don't really hear much about her after You know the late nineteenth century and so A lot of his legacy is left in the hands of Photo history which is only hasn't really as formed itself but as then Really commit Kat you sort of commanded by these Specific photographers that didn't find him as particularly Important unfortunately so he gets kind of AM forgotten about Which is another very interesting story and yeah he says Archive You know you find it in all sorts of places The largest collections are in the UK of course with the Royal Photographic Society and then We manage the Getty Museum Just lucked into having a large number of rylander prints because we acquired the Samuel Wag staff collection in Nineteen eighty-four and why staff had been collecting British photography nineteenth century. British Dogra fee Really early on in the nineteen seventies and so we have this kind of magical group of his photographs But they're really kind of scattered around in. There's more to find. I know. Laurie has been continuing a Lori polly has been continuing to gather as sort of catalogue resume of his work. So this is the first time ever. Yeah yeah that it's been brought together. All of these photographs haven't been together ever before And it's a lot of loans with that. You have thirty over thirty lenders to the exhibition and up from all over the place Sweden the UK And the United States and North America So it's it's it's impressive. It's kind of Nice in a way to have him finally be kind of put back together in one place and really honored in that way and I. I do see it in the people that look at the exhibition. They're very you can tell people are engaging with the photographs and it's it's kind of incredible that he's able to do that from you know over. A couple of centuries is still speak to us today. It's It's a mirror. It's really impressive. He's incredible I mean making the photographs. I have a feeling that he liked people. Yeah he was curious. Yeah other human being yes I know. He definitely seemed to be very Engaged in caring about others and and in a way sort of I guess you could look at it in terms of an actor sort of very observant of other people's expressions and gestures in sort of Imitating those recreating those. But he also Was a lifelong kind of Very charitable person he apparently in Wolverhampton and in London. There's evidence of him Contributing to charities and then his photographs of the Homeless children on the streets of London and sort of a even just addressing the fact that some people lived in these really You know unfortunate ways an making that. The subject of his photographs was was a was a gesture of kind of caring for the for people A lot of photographers weren't focusing on that aspect of London at the time and he's kind of the photographic Equivalent of Charles Dickens. Or someone like served really focused on that. On the way that lower class life played out And at the same time he is earning money taking right really famous. Yes which people yes exactly so I mean. He's a typical in that way for a photographer photographer at the time to sort of make money off of photographs that would be of well known people's he does have photographs of the and of Literary Heroes of the day and Ferry he had to support himself with Photographs of of of the upper class. But then it kind of in the same way we could tell that his real interest was in More everyday life kind of scenes even just domestic scenes of someone searching for their glasses or someone drinking a cup of tea Doing the laundry things like that. He was very interested in kind of And those subjects at that was also very unusual because They weren't these grand and of fine art subjects. They were just everyday subjects. So is the exhibition traveling. No so this is the last. Stop the last venue for the exhibition But it was on view in Ottawa at the National Gallery of Canada in The F- last fall two thousand eighteen And then after here although works go back to their homes send Yeah we'll be a while probably before a lot of these things are seen again so I know well. Congratulations for now. I know I feel very proud that we were able to do this. And to have this exhibition here. So good Thank you so much talking to me. Policy is very very interesting. Thank you thank you

Mary Oscar Rylander Wolverhampton UK Getty Museum London Manchester Art Treasures Exhib United States Stockholm Royal Photographic Society England Jenny Sweden Danielson Karen Hellman Carrizo Nemo Grant Ottawa Royal Photographic Society
CNN10 - 10/31/19

CNN 10 (video)

10:00 min | 11 months ago

CNN10 - 10/31/19

"In Coral Zeus the CNN. Ten some of you on twitter asked if I'd be dressed up for Halloween. No but if it's ever appropriate for someone in a Salvadorian Dolly Costume to bring you the news. I'd be happy to paint that picture. Let's get to what's happening first. Story out of California Hurricane Force is a term to describe wind speeds beads that blow at or faster than seventy four miles per hour and some of the winds buffeting wildfires near Los Angeles aren't hurricane force. These are the Santa Santa Ana winds hot dry dusty gusts that blow from the desert across southern California out towards the Pacific coast. They can be their worst in October. And they make it very difficult if not impossible for firefighters to contain or wall in a wildfire. What's known as getty fire was threatening more than seven thousand homes around L. A. Last night and it was just one of at least ten wildfires burning across California tens of thousands of acres each one? Roughly the size of a football all field have been scorched across the state. Dozens of homes have been lost. Power has been cut off to hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses because California's largest futility company doesn't want it to quit sparking new fires in the windy conditions. Schools houses businesses. Even museums have been evacuated. Well you can see. This is now called the easy fire because it started near Easy Street. Ironically but these gusts are so powerful. Awful these forty fifty sixty a month mile an hour winds coming through these canyons. It's pushing it so fast and no place seems to be safe. Of course the the precious artwork inside the Getty Museum The point of concern that places fortified and safe. We think of the same as the case here to just give you some perspective. This is the Reagan Library. burry riding. There is Air Force One This has been the site of presidential debates on CNN in the past in addition to The smoke in the air the air pollution soon the stress of evacuating yet another evacuation zone people dealing with those rolling blackouts as PG and E.. Pacific gas and electric conscious. Not just so much wrath from the public. They're shutting down huge swaths of their service area to try to prevent more fires from sparking out there in in the wild lands. They need to fortify something. Like seven thousand miles of vulnerable power lines in the state this year. They managed a hundred Miles Elsa and their heels a slurry bomber. Right on cue. We've seen helicopters coming through the super soaker dropping retardant trying to contain this but whoa it's raining down now in the history of cal fire they have never been able to contain fully. Stop a fire. That's being instead. Bhai Santa Anna Winds all they can do is wait for the weather to change and try to fortify human life for precious the race. That is a stunning thing. And you stand in it and you see it's worked as you mentioned. It's no wonder you can't stop a fire like this trivia which sports the highest percentage of college athletes drafted to a major professional league baseball basketball. The polar ice hockey last year almost ten percent of eligible college baseball players were drafted into Major League baseball though many would actually play their own the NC double A.. Had Been Adamant for years that they were against college. Athletes being able to make money but the building public pressure that finally changing their stance the NC double a board of governors voting unanimously. On Tuesday to begin the process to change changed the rules to allow college athletes profit off their name image and likeness. And this'll be much more than just a college quarterback being able to sell jerseys or sign autographs when this goes into effect in twenty twenty one which is what they're shooting for volleyball players soccer players. It'd be able to hold camps for kids in order to make money and they can advertise that. Hey I'm a star. You're athlete at my university. That's something that they can't do right now. Now there is no framework in place yet. And that's going to be the tough part for the incident AA. They say they want the new rules to still be in line with the collegiate model. What that means exactly we don't know yet? NCAA President Marc Emmers says making these new rules. It's going to be challenging aging collegiate sport. Unlike any other sport has a recruitment process. you don't you get to choose your school. You don't get drafted you don't. It's not like the Olympics. Where you're you're an Americans are you you play for? The American team and that recruitment process is really part of the core of what constitutes anything like a fair level playing field field and structuring a model for allowing students to monetize a name image and likeness while maintaining some recruiting balance is is one of the biggest and hardest issues that everyone's dealing with this all comes after California. Signed the fair pay to play act into law that will allow college athletes athletes in the state of California to profit off their name image and likeness beginning in the year. Twenty twenty three other states have similar legislation in place right now how the NC double A. Makes those rules stricter and his able to enforce it. That's still yet to be determined. The National Retail Federation. The world's largest retail tale trade association says Americans who participate in Halloween events planned to spend eight point eight billion dollars this year. It works out to just over eighty six bucks per participant going for everything from candy to decorations to costumes to Pumpkins. Tout fits for their pets. According to the NRF survey this year spending will be. He's short of last year's record of nine billion dollars but for the candy industry. Halloween is like an annual super bowl. Halloween is very very important to Mars. Wrigley it is our number one season and it's a eight point. Eight billion dollar season for retailers. We start to prepare for Halloween. Two years out one of the things that have really changed. His adults are participating at a much higher level over the last two years. We've seen a forty five percent increase in adult participation. There's also a couple of other trends. It's really become an eight weeks season and we're seeing it happen in three stages ages as fall roles in people are thinking about baking so there's a baking element then it transitions into a celebration. Time where you have those neighborhood parties and last but not least it is trick or treat where The majority of our sales come from I would say one of the biggest trends we've seen over over. The last five years is consumers willingness to spend more where the traditional bag was maybe a a medium sized bag. You're seeing consumers spying sixty eighty ounce hundred ounce bags of product because it gives variety consumers loved. Variety consumers. sooners come in looking for America's favorites in that everyday items like twix Milky Way starburst and skittles. But it's critical to bring new innovation along the way earned the group in our food. Scientists worked very closely to identify trends. Really the best example of doing that would be zombies skills. The the main inspiration for zombies was to bring excitement and fun back into Halloween customers are really enjoying it and their daring each other to see if they can get the grow Saami flavor and if they can keep it in their mouth when you get to the final stages of Halloween the most important elements is how your products show up in store confectionaries. Very much an impulse category but seasons are planned so it's critically important to make sure you have product available. We talked to our retailers about where you put the top selling items where you put the displays location really really matters. It's the best. Real estate is in the front end of the store. This is the prime real estate of the store. When you look at the display you have our beacon eakin yellow that attracts consumers to the destination? We use our iconic eminem characters. We have a theme House on the block and we have multiple price points you want to disrupt the consumer as they walk in with an empty cart in the opportunity to drive conversion Apparently even galaxies far far away aren't immune the Halloween Hoopla is an alien C.. Three Po the iron giant. He's low silly. Scientists say it's two galaxies we equal proportion involved in the head on collision collision seven hundred four million light years away from Earth. Of course the Erie image was captured by the Hubble Space Telescope in June. And get a good look while you can because scientists say this will only be visible for one hundred billion more years. It's a sight to galaxy. You distant frightened that space can flee is leave you incredulous. Even if it's caused seems James Nebulous. It's more star frightening fighter

California CNN California Hurricane Force twitter Getty Museum Los Angeles college baseball National Retail Federation football eminem Bhai Santa Anna baseball NCAA President Marc Emmers Reagan Library. NC Olympics James Nebulous Twenty twenty