Hour 1: 'Zeke Signs
Good morning and welcome to i take i'm rachael filling in for molly karen damian what he max kellerman here look at utah hi hi everything's good today. I'm feeling good. I'm glad you took my instruction now with zeke dropping. I'm gonna come. You've got reprimanded commanded. You thought i was a substitute teacher reprimanded by then you found out that actually the principal is in the building and now you wore a tie very good okay. I'm gonna show you what let's more about big small right. It does look like thai and we got some big big news today. All the big news coming out of big d finally we've been on zeke watch all preseason and finally zeke elliot and the cowboys reached an agreement on a six view ninety million dollar extension and according to e._s._p._n.'s at water the deal has fifty million dollars guaranteed shoot match right there. That's what you said was important. A whole time all right well with the two years remaining on his current contract the agreement tie him to the cowboys through the two thousand twenty sixties so zeke hit twitter to celebrate elaborate yea he good now zeke's new extension catapulted to the top of the list as the highest paid running back in football the big day for zeke and the cowboys franchise and guys maxwell start with you one this deal you can even say that zeke for the cowboy. Is this a trick question. This is this is not uneven a win with unanimous decision this is t._k._o. He wasn't this thing with a knockout damian. This dude was not next up. He had two warn years on his deal. He's not the best running back in the world and yet two more years on his deal and the cowboys came out and said we're not resetting the market market so let me get this straight. He didn't have to go to camp week. One nowhere and tear as the highest highest guaranteed money running back in the n._f._l. After the cowboys said they weren't going to do it. This is such a clear cut. When i would love to hear you argue the other imagine what your argument. I am gonna argue the other side because i think the cowboys won this deal. Listen everyone first of all the devils in the details with any type of contract situation. I'm not everyone's going to roth older. Fifty million guaranteed. We still need to know what the structure of how they're going to pay that out because that is important but max. Let me give you some perspective on this. Okay who talks about you know. He beat todd gurley. Did you know that in two thousand eleven adrian peterson signed for head of forty million guarantee in two thousand and eleven that was eight years go max eight years ago okay as much as we talk about zeke and what he signed for the one in bed market is about a stagnant as it was back in two thousand eleven and the salary cap has skyrocketed to this point the dallas cowboys has z z locked up for eight years and you really think that zeke is going to see don't all eight hundred eight years of this extension had no they're going to run. Zeke intended ground now. They have fun there base their whole off into line until like twenty twenty two twenty three but they're going to run. They're gonna run zeke into our snow. Gonna run into the ground is no way that zeke is going to see any portion of the back into this deal so he got the fifty million guaranteed listening bolom when i'm saying is everyone talks about resetting the market again. Agent pinson got forty million in two thousand eleven to lebanon peace and got forty. That's how boys winning so. That's why why is another cowboys ezekiel. Adrian peterson is supposed to be the elite back that everyone talking about the peterson was here kurier number one ezekiel elliott's not number one top three but matt's we're talking eight years later eight years later. We're talking about excuse me eight years. Max come on now eight years later in two thousand and he's only getting ten million dollars more guarantee. He eight years later on the deal. What's that. How do you like the years on. You have to give those years because to agency. That's funny money. He'll never say never ever see. That's why i never cared about the average annual value the total deal like i don't pay attention that the only thing i care about when i see these deals. What is the guaranteed dough fifty million dollars. You already signed a sixteen million dollar. Contract probably got about ten million in that so what we know about ezekiel elliott in an era where the running back position has been devalued over time and i'm here to tell you he's not a top three back in fact game forgave like some of his durability and the fact that you're reliable returns with ezekiel elliott wanting to between the tackles all that i give him credit for that no doubt but game by game basis. I got five guys take before him and he's he just meet sixty. He's probably going to sign his career minimum sixty million let me ask you a question what running back means more to their team than ezekiel elliott north western position of leverage in terms of where the cowboys are how they built their offense to all right the fact that it would zeke elliott means cowboy and just keep going back to this point max the fact that in eight years okay the guaranteed portion is only going to ten ten million dollars so from the dallas cowboys standpoint listen we got. We got a guy back in camp right in time for the season opener. Okay aware nowhere interior ed because he didn't have to go through training camp and in the grand scheme of things low fifty fifty million when eight forty back in two thousand eleven was looking at this whole over eight years. Here's a changing the question because look no doubt teams where everyone criticizes teams for taking running backs up high. I've said in fact there's some wisdom. There's some crazy like a fox because they give you production from year one because you never really have to pay them like he's. He's gonna make sixty million over his career. That'll be the most that running back gets and considering his value. Maybe that's still deal you don't have to pay for the decline and by the time it's time to pay most of these guys who go well. Your time is running back so there's some wisdom in juicing that position as the cowboys had but you're asking this was the deal one uh by ezekiel elliott or the cowboys. The owners of the team said we will not make him the highest paid back. He is two years out from free and he ate the best guy and just got fifty million guaranteed. Which was the record. How can you say to win. This game even hold out because again. Listen again again. A lot depends on the structure. We don't we just we just heard the fifty million guarantee. We don't know how it was paid out or any of that so i think that's a big part of the puzzle here but i <music>. I'm fifty million guarantee about that. How the structure for me it depends. There's a big tween okay. I'm fifty million upon signing my contract. Give me my money as opposed to fifty million guaranteed words being spread out over shirts being spread over. That's right and you know what else can happen. In that particular situation we seen zeke in the past have incidents off the field and guess what guess what could be in jeopardy you in in that particular situation the mon- money wait a minute zeki. Elliott can't behave off the field in a way that preserves his guaranteed money. That's on him. The bottom line is i would have thought it to win if he had to miss a couple of game checks and wound up as the second highest paid back he missed zero game checks reset the market he one brother zinc yulia. What do you guys trust zeke over the course of eight years character and behavior wise. What has he done for me to trust them mm-hmm. I mean listen if you if your habitual you've had incidences tom-tom again throughout your early party career. I'm in wait and see mode. No i'm not going to trust you and i'm pretty sure. The contract is structured as such where the dow's com was okay. If you mess it up then we're gonna come back and get and get them in there. Sonnen bone signing bonus money yeah the zeke elliott like if you heard saquon barkley his introductory press conference you said oh my god if this kid could throw that's a franchise quarterback dressed up. There's a running back the way he carries himself. Everything and it wasn't like this fake kind of p._c. Football answer is giving you. It was like andrew luck. You ask say quantum question. He gave it to you from his heart exactly what you wanted to hear right and it was even nuance it. That is where you trust your money with a guy like that. Ezekiel elliott is a riskier skier proposition unless you're talking about returns on the football field zeke gives you constant reliable predictable returns between the tap but he's not a top three guy who opinion knocking not touch back on this topic. Hey molly care. I'm here and you're listening to the first take podcast. It is time to celebrate rape football. Finally back part people draftkings the leader in one day. 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As as quarterback jared goff agreed to terms on an extension with the rams through two thousand thousands twenty-four for four years one hundred thirty four million with a record one hundred ten million guaranteed according to e._s._p._n.'s adam schefter now golf had two years left on his rookie deal but after two pro bowls and leading the rams to the super bowl last season it was only a matter of time before he secured the bag now jared gov is the fourth player in n._f._l. History to get a contract for at least one hundred million guaranteed. All four players are quarterbacks. Three of those deals have come since april russell. Wilson signing followed by carson wentz in june and now golfing are the only two quarterback signed through the two thousand twenty four season season right. Now we welcome in dominic foxworth joining us on set and i'll start over damian. You know who have the better chance of living up to their contract. Will it be goff or will it be carson wentz. Let's go with jared goff. I think for me. Everyone talks about sean mcveigh. <hes> you know the offense of guru officer aging is and there's no question the the influence that he's had on jerry golf. I mean the numbers prove it out going from you know jeff fisher to to sean mcvay. I mean it is no no question about that but i think for me. The reason why go with jerry golf is when comes carson wentz his style of play it reminds minds me of oh like brett farve aaron rodgers type type of quarterback he does his best work is ad lib and but what comes with a lot of and the is putting yourself in an advert situations we've seen that with aaron rodgers over the past few years because he's so great l. all platform or when plays breakdown he also puts themselves potential for injury right and when you look at when you look at carson wentz what have we seen. We've seen the tornado. We've seen the back. We've seen him put himself where he won't be available to his team. Now that's not a dispute. That's not dispirited anything anything from his talent from talent perspective. He's more talented in jared goff. He's might be a better football player in golf injuries in college too so this injury his that's something to be concerned with but i do think the comparisons that you brought up interesting ones. I think that ben rothlisberger is possibly yes where around going i apologize this go yeah. It's hard to prove what i'm about to say okay. This is gonna come with no no more like because this is more like a gut feeling and you know you look for cops in sports right. This guy reminds me. This guy so i'm not claiming history has to repeat itself exactly with some like geeked out out thing where you know oh. This guy's like this when rothlisburger turned pro when he was drafted forget about you i i second rivers was also there and rivers was drafted fourth overall office. I think it was tenth and there was just this sense about rothlisburger where people. I don't know if you draft eli or rivers. Maybe you just go with rothlisburger right. He's a football player. Goff was putting up numbers like a machine and it was projected to put up those numbers but the kind of weiser old football football heads and the fans who really paying attention like there's something about rothlisburger pig strong more mobile bigger arm more of a full gave dave people that sense and sure enough. If you had to redo that draft a bet you take office burger over his right. I think most people would for exactly that reason rivers put up crazy the numbers numbers and most most years but we would all take it played out the way our gut told us it might whence golf to me or a lot of the same thing i can't disprove the thing about the injury is injury. Prone is although i saw him play on that twenty i was in l._a. For that i saw him play on that tornado and complete three more passes before he went is tough. Whence is that kind of football player. The bigger arm more mobile guy under center for me. If i have a team that's my argument. Humidity rather have wentz the difference between rothlisberger and rivers is also structural and the situation that they went into. I think rothlisberger went into an organization station that was well built and was ready to win immediately an organization that doesn't make as many big mistakes as you could say. The charges have made so. I don't know if you re drafted today. I think a a lot of people might still take rivers. Rosberg has had a better career because he's good not because he's better than rivers. You'd better career because he's in a better situation. The rivers and i think the same same could be said for both of these players frankly wentz went into a great situation and they are probably the best front office in football right now so i think that the argument for him tailing carson wentz having a longer career the argument is you trust the eagles in their front office in howie roseman those guys more than you trust what they're going to be able to do out in l._a. I think that is part of it. It's almost impossible to separate the player from his situation. We see players go into great situations and it can or bad bad situations. It completely changed. The outlook in fact was louis riddick. It was someone i believe right here with whose opinion i value because i remember thinking aw that's interesting as it relates to josh rosen josh rosen now going to a situation where boy this is a this is not great for him right. That's right that's right so part porta that gets attached to the players i mean i don't know if we can really separate that. Really i want you all to take a stance on it to your point who who was in the better situation carson or off. I i have to say that. I think off is in a better situation. I think the injury thing that you bring up the sean mcvay marriage we don't have as much as we want to disentangle those things we don't. We'll have to and we're not going to be able to. He's good because i'm mcveigh's there and maybe mcveigh's offense and team is very good because jared goff is there so i believe in that despite the fact that i i i think the eagles have been very good in the front office. I think paying this money it kind of heifers their ability to build around him and i think i believe in john mcveigh's ability to continue to evolve and lean on a guy like 'cause listened to ultimately coaching matters and also in the n._f._l. For any other sport and what we see see what we talk about with sean mcvay is he's kind of like this this innovative mind you outside of the super bowl obviously going against great bill belichick but usually in these spoke especially when you talk about in the salary cap era where you pay a quarterback now you've gotta be now. It's up to you. Go say okay. I'm a little bit hamstrung about the salary our cap but i got to be able to develop on this one for let let me let me finish. Let me finish here because when you have a great coach and jerry ah jerry go once you right there. Are you seriously hitting here and arguing to us. You want a great coach. What's charity's a super bowl with taking you to week thirteen with a whole other quarterbacks the super bowl by the way the phillies special and then the next year coming back having a little more than half the season that taking the same from the previous year at title into the playoffs beating the bears soldier field go into new orleans almost beating the saints at new orleans. Who's that's peterson coaching. Meantime peterson also went up against bill belichick chick chick. Guess who got herb stopped by bellichik land. I mean come on like a deer headlights. How are you making that argument argument to me. How am i making that argument because i feel like with shot with sean mcveigh listen. This is still a maturation process with jared goff and again. I go back to the injury. You can't dispel the injury aspect of carson wentz in particular situation because of his playing style grin given that i'll give you the doug peterson is a great is a great right goes off of my dislike. Sean mcvay is but we cannot dispel the playing style. That khartoum wins head if i had to choose if i'm gonna play if i'm gonna put in the locker room and you end dumbing you know this if you ask me okay who is a guy that i that i wanna have the i know. It's it's probably gonna be there weekend and week out. I probably i want the guy that i know i can depend on and that's jerry the argument that you would make against the the offense of coaching staff or the eagles is point out that that defense was really good also and in that game against the falcons on their super bowl run their offense was not very impressive. You can't say that appoint those games necessarily with the exception of the super bowl. You can't really point to many of those games for the rams so i still agree with you. The man want super bowl and he beat the best coach ever and their offense put up so many points against. I'm very respectable patriots superbowl so no one sitting here saying that doug peterson is not a good coach but i think that's where either way goth mcvay are doing what they're doing and by the way when i say curbs stuff i mean on all the paper or anything to i get that but when there's room for growth here because whence really didn't know how to leave the team and there was an article that came out about that behind the scenes and everything i'm here and since that article michael came out is that he's matured from that he's learned from that. Everyone says he's a good guy. He works hard. He wants to be a good leader. He's learned from nick foles. Peterson also was asking wants to do a lot because he's so talented when they simplified thing for foles. Now there's talk. They're going to go and do some of that from whence so not only has went achieved on an m._v._p. Caliber level before he got injured. You're right about that. There's room for him as to get better as a player with his coach and leader gough looks like like mcveigh of golf going to do differently really so either. He's going to perform under practice reward question. Do you feel like jerry because what i'm hearing. Is you think gerry goffin system guy. Is that what you're implying. The adjourn gophers this guy yes but that doesn't mean he's not a talented quarterback. He does a pretty ball like he. He hits guys on his on their steps pretty pass or no no question about it so he has talent but clearly a system can help any quarterback and mcveigh's helps goff critique on system system or not success is success success and i'm here. The power dynamics of in game play calling has been public discussion for packers quarterback aaron rodgers and new oh head coach matt leflore and already before seems tired of the scrutiny of the situation which kinda comes with the territory when you're the coach of one of the all time greats the here's what he had to say you guys. This will not stop this audible thing. It's unbelievable. What what do you guys want me to say. I think that we've always had adjustments within our place like it's just we called it something different and the fact that i didn't call an audible. Everybody's running wild with it so <hes> i it's. It's comical to me but like i said i feel good with what what what we've got in our plan how we've gotten to this point and i'm confident that he's got a total command and control of what we're trying to get done. The packers opened the one hundredth n._f._l. Season tomorrow night in chicago against the bears all eyes will be on who's calling the shots for an offense for the pack and now dominic foxworth stays with us throughout the show or throughout this part of the show is this duo rogers and the floor under the most scrutiny and week one mac yes clearly the answer is yes. I'm not talking about a coach with a team. I'm not talking about to see how a guy is a as a head coach. I'm talking about specifically a coach with a quarterback quarterback. What are the. I'll leave the options to you. There's one glaring ops and i could take you could go with the browns. I think obviously you're looking at freddie kitchens and mayfield so there's a lot of pressure there. The whole country is going to be looking at it. That's what i mean by teen yeah. I understand what you're saying. Is the question is. How is he a head coach because it's not me if you really worried about it's it's well the skills position you know mayfield pinball the quake yes because aaron rodgers coming off the the worst season of his career where his team didn't make the playoffs. A guy who i think has had more sway over the outcome of any single game than anyone who ever lived that aaron rodgers. His position in history is being threatened. Yes he's won a super bowl. I'm here people say. Can you tell me that roger had a better career than drew brees who you put higher on the all time list went to me. I look at arron rogers. He's better than everyone brady everyone. I don't think it's a tough call but his position in history is being threatened and by the way you just ran his old coach out of town now. He's got a new coach who's never been on this level in terms of not team performs just quarterback and coach. Everyone's looking at it as stephen able say the flu uh aaron rodgers c. I go with freddie kitchens and baker mayfield. Here's why when you look at it he will he's going from you play caller to now head coach. That's a totally different dimension right there. You're not able as a as a head coach unit sitting there on the bench and just charging plays and plays with what the what the second year quarterback and baker mayfield now. You're in charge of the whole operation that means you're single. Ah focus last year just being you. You're in charge of this whole deal net it goes. It goes further than that. He lacks here the beginning season. He was running backs coach. He went from running backs coach to hey coach a year so that's a lot of pressure but i'm gonna throw another team and makes another coach and it makes it makes it even more complicated. I think the cowboys the only coach is that we have right now jason garrett that's playing in the last year of his deal and there's a ton of pressure on him. We're talking about holidays. Quarterback performs going to impact the way that this guy or how long this keeps his job up. I'm looking at jason garrett in dallas. I think he's under more individual pressure. Then leflore leflore just got there and i think that that team if we're going to go with the whole taste is definitely the brown you are making. You're saying coach under the most pressure. You have a very good point. If you're saying which head coach is is under the most pressure in terms of how the whole team response that how he manages a team can be a head coach then you can look at cleveland easily. A lot of big egos lot of skills positions nations players only one ball to go around. Demonstrative quarterback is not afraid to express himself on and off the field. That's a big job but if we're talking strictly coach which quarterback combo it's florida rogers is this. Hey this might be the best dude who ever lived your first year head coach. The problem was the old offense looked like it was from ten years ago and didn't adapt. What are you gonna do. Hey aaron rogers. Are you still going to perform to your old standard with this guy so you you the best thing that a a a rookie head coach could ask for is all time greatest quarterback thinking. About what other problems would you would you rather you. The head coach at cincinnati netted andy dalton at quarterback. There's bad as big as down in miami. They're pretty pretty risky. Situation is matt leflore than having aaron rodgers zoos like you said the best quarterback that you have ever seen and the question. Is it the best or worst situation. The question is which combos under the scrutiny. There's no need for ask you though the fact that <hes> coach leflore or has said he's given the power to aaron rodgers to make calls on the fly doesn't that actually take the pressure off of coach and put it more on aaron rodgers very good question. How in a way yes but it's still the combo. That's under scrutiny because this is what roger has been asking for. I wanted more cerebral dynamic offense. I want more freedom in the offense. Okay you got it is it doesn't work aaron rodgers. You've got jazz careful. You might get jask for meantime. What's the head coach going to do. It's still the more the scrutiny. How in the same segment can you say that he's the greatest you've ever seen have sway over as much as anything and he's the best quarterback of all time we all love him. He's a bad man and then say that his legacy is somehow in jeopardy aaron. Rodgers legacy is submitted. He's going to the hall of fame. This is what we normally have our guys at integrator like philip rivers and we talked about last segment philip rivers has not wanted to bowl so that matters aaron rodgers heads off as meek mill said their levels to this okay once upon by the way the level the levels have risen because back in the day you shooting it for. Let's say montana bradshaw someone right now. You're shooting at six so back in the day like philip rivers is not in this conversation. Then rothberg is not in this conversation is not in this conversation. We're talking about though greatest among the greatest the inner sanctum of the hall of fame why montana used to win the argument. You know when you're arguing montana-marino right marino ring rings. Marino got to one but didn't win one. I'm saying thing nowadays even winning. One isn't enough to be in this conversation anymore. Like montana was the guy who with all the rings. Marina was the guy but he's so talented right rogers ever. We only winds up with max. Would you agree with this and dominic pointed that pointed out the reason. I keep going back to to to the cleveland browns. You're talking about a guy freddie kitchens. Who's had this crazy ascension to the head coach and it reminded me like like how ben mcadoo situation what would the i thought he all of a sudden he comes in becomes the head because the offense coordinator the office you know turns around in a couple of years. He's a syndicated echo what happened. He flames out because not not everybody is built for this. Not everybody's built to be a coach with all the person all the different personnel has been acquired with the cleveland breath a second year quarterback and baker who everyone's like annoying like. He's the next great one outside a bedroom hold. You don't think that you don't think that's the i think there's no question there is scrutiny on the quarterback head coach. What i'm saying is when you think of kitchens. You don't think primarily just baker mayfield you think. How is this dude going to handle. This very talented rostov. I mean he got the job because of baker mayfield frankly because play well but i have trouble with is the whole basis of your argument is built around moving the conversation station from a one ring. Now you have to have multiple rails to because integrate no the competency no no no no no no no the reason why we need to be great and the reason why we had that bet line there was arguing championship quarterback or not a championship quarterback. You can't always say all of a sudden to championship quarterback or watch this received. They'll do it right now. Who's better rogers. O'brady better better. Okay is rogers. Go down to the greatest quarterback ever know why not so so now. He has to win seven. No it's not that you have to be within spitting distance. You can't be too long. It's a two is not spinning at least if you're right you're right to probably won't get him there but at least with two people like meal make the following argument look brady had chick give rogers bellichik how many rogers he only wants rogers one two with a team that generally wasn't worthy of a super bowl contender. It was because of your premise right now. Raj will never get the. He never been the same cynicism if he if he won three if rodgers wound up with three rents yeah. I call them the greatest of all time yup so then. What difference does it make how many rings you have. If you're looking at a player i he has to have two rings. Three rings is seem to solitary in. What you're doing is arbitrarily. You're saying it's either one or no. That's not arbiter anxious. The opposite of what i'm saying is that you're moving a scale gail that changes over time if back when when the record was four really super bowl era you win a championship okay it's six now. One is not enough rogers. This is just a truths. Are you saying that one championship is enough to be as what max is trying to say talked about as one of the greatest of all time is one enough absolutely already talking about him as one of the greatest of all time. Is that not true. You said you're listening so you were watching a-rod shoulder the past fifty and he's one of the great by the way but anyway that's number one ranking among that changes that's one to we're not even just talking championship right now do we. We know the packers will make the playoffs rogers endanger this year of missing the playoffs for a second consecutive year. That's answer that really quick. Do you think aaron rodgers and the floor will take the packers to the playoffs yeah absolutely yeah. I think they win the division. I don't think the one the division. I think they will get to the playoffs. I have faith in aaron rodgers but that's based seem like the bears are a better team. No you don't think they're making playoffs. Why because i think there's two teams in division better view kirk cousins over just keep taking. I'm taking the minnesota vikings.