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I feel like hell for the law and Michael to Michael for lying and get contraction I saw this French film of course later on so I was very excellent and might just make it to be honest it would not Maxis the prices for me you know at the very beginning of awards season three kicks off with three phone fast fan is Toronto in telluride at the end of the summer the beginning the full and then bounced off you start hearing people's reaction and this is the red slacks a waiting van and you're looking at pictures saying well they're all satin and a prominent films with African Americans the soon so would directed by women I didn't know if they were going to cross over the queue for that group of voters in a few years ago actually when when a post all the adults because so white we could get at round tables with the active the directors the writers and when we were putting together the actress round table there were absolutely no women of color who seems like they would even like to to get nominated and I remember and and we got pretty massively criticized rightly I take the blame for this to have an all white women's round table and and we changed direction after that but it was evident that the industry walking creating those films and I think it's easy to say if the cat in the for XP industry see both you and you have to tackle things in multiple directions I think the academy's has done a great deal to do that what we have is talking about this the other things the academy dot for instance mentorship program financing for education there are multiple patrols here that lead to this problem and she also looking at the ferry downstream and the cat in the wrong but you call take in isolation April Stephen has a great point we tend to look at the academy not that the academy shouldn't be accountable they should they're sort of the tip of the iceberg in many many ways what's your view of the academy that you focus so much attention on verses the industry I absolutely agree with Steve and that it's not just the economy it's not just the golden globes is not just a Baptist we need to go all the way back to the very beginning to the screenwriter stage and figure out again whose stories are being told and who is telling those stories when someone is sitting down with a blank page and findings front of them hoping that they have written about to write the next best picture you know what is the protagonist look like is it a tall leggy blonde from the Midwest because if so by the time we get the casting months the maybe years later then the only person you're thinking about is Scarlett Johannson or Jennifer Lawrence but then one has to ask what is their hair color have to do with how well they perform in that film right because that means then then Daya and Gina Rodriguez and other people won't even get an opportunity to audition just because of what's that in the mind set I absolutely agree that the economy is the very end of the line so we really need to start back at the beginning and find out what opportunities are being given to traditionally under represented communities not just with respect to race but also sexual orientation gender identity disability to get those films made from the very beginning and at the same time April you have written about the types of roles that black actors and actresses do get nominated for once they are cast once they are in that pipeline you wrote a piece in variety you talk about how the only black woman to be nominated for Best Actress was Cynthia Revo who plays Harriet Tubman in the film Harriet similarly Lupita nyong'o won an Oscar for her role in twelve years a slave but this year she was overlooked for the to care after she played in Jordan peels hit movie us talk about what you see is the pattern for how black actors and actresses get promoted and celebrated when they are in films it's a real problem and I think that Stephen touched on this a bit you know that that in their minds that even when they were sending up those round tables they didn't think that those you know particular performances were even going to cross over for women of color and so they were included in the panel and one must ask what kind of troops palatable to the economy to voters to film critics because the vast majority of winners especially for women of color and black women in film have all come from a place where the characters are experiencing significant trauma so inflamed women women living in abject poverty even Whoopi Goldberg who played the cookie skit side kick in ghosts and when the best supporting actress you know they were there were questions about whether she had mental health issues right the only black woman who's ever won for Best Actress is Halle berry in monster's ball and clearly she with the troubled character and so one has to say well are there only thing is that the economy fees you know that only a slave narrative that is palatable to again a majority white male voter membership and that's the movies that we see time and time again you know why is it that my pain the pain of my ancestors is entertaining for you that that is what you will award but when someone like Peter in young girl has to fully fleshed out characters in us she is snubbed for that role because we actually the very first of may off to be on the actress roundtable if you will be pizza it was a wonderful performance so it isn't shown true of actresses of color you know for the rack access to the email you'll you'll you'll call the mansion on college and terrific performance by Adam Sandler but is deceived official in the movie Sean movies don't tend to do well they lost to until movie was was one of the very few exceptions and this applies just as much to active in that applies just as much the film that win the Oscar for Best Picture DOT flight in the whole history of the office you call he had any comment is that where you thought I called think of a single is shown a picture of that as well on the other hand Schindler's list winter so this isn't shocked a criterion for the place to women of color let's talk about some more films that could have been nominated that didn't get nominated we've already mentioned Stephen you mentioned hustlers one of many movies with a cast of mostly women directed by a woman they got zero nominations this year fair fail to to cross over is you say let's get people to hang on I want to I want to give people a little bit of a listen to hustlers here we go Wall Street guys it's in this country stole from everybody working people lost everything one of these things back to jail the game is rigged and it does not reward people who play by the rules like robbing a bank except get the keys hunter Harrison vulture some people have suggested that Jennifer Lopez campaigning for the nomination too much might have played into her not getting an Oscar nomination for her role in hustlers what what are your thoughts on this film and on the reason why J. lo was overlooked I mean how search has a very special place in my heart because it is based on and your magazine story but outside of that I just enjoyed it I think it has a lot of momentum it's a lot of fine and I mean my favorite teen hustlers as winter for Lawrence's teaching Constance Wu how to strip essentially and it's just such a loving scene between two women who were just you know being friends with one another but at the same time I think the thing with jail is that I think when you're voting for and someone when an Oscar part of the sort of metric is that you have to know that how much they wanted and away and that they need it and with Jello she's already like an icon she is such a form I mean we also heard the Superbowl last week and so I think it actually might have been the opposite that maybe she did and maybe that there's been that shouldn't wanted I'm not for need it to be to sort of solidify her status in Hollywood or or in the world really but it I was really surprised by Jill rocketing nomination because she had gotten a lot of the precursors and her biggest competition is obviously Laura Dern who is the favorite to win for playing a lawyer in marriage story but for a lot of the season especially after hosters career in Toronto they were pretty head like neck and neck but I think the jail thing is that did that character of like a mama bear stripper was not really you know super palatable to a lot of people she dealt drugs and you know sort of engaged or Shoup's worked as sort of a pen been engaged in sex work but at the same time like that's not really a role that we see women especially winning Oscars for I think I wanna push back in Stevens point earlier that that you know the problem about the roles women when the colors spit specifically play in movies is that extends to everyone I don't really think that's true anything Custer's is in some ways an example of that that this was sort of a prickly story about women who are doing bad things and getting caught doing them and that's just not a movie that people see as an Oscar movie I think that's everyone's detriment what we got this voice mail from a listener sharing his opinion about the role that race and gender should or shouldn't play when it comes to Oscar nominations we got several responses along this theme listen IBM injury Oscar is I don't mind or don't care who the with gender of the person is or what color the person is I care about quality in the movie that's being produced I don't care what color they are what gender they are I don't think it matters Linda tweeted this is it just possible that there were no good movies made by people of color or women this year when will the best just be the best without conditions attached Stephen you go first and then April what's your response okay I just briefly want to respond to sing about Jennifer Lopez I we saw she did get nominated the best supporting actress before it could be a thirty two fax one is that movie is very unsentimental about her role and it had a different ending in the retention people would have like that for the cliche narrative the very strength of the film is resistant to that meeting as you said less palatable the second thing is when conformist so let you see the acting when he seems so real that you think this is just what they like the performances of look she made it so real the people football if you'd just what she's like it's one of the reasons Tom Hanks has been so rarely nominate a you got nominated this year but not for many many years he makes it look so easy well certainly we're seeing the film let's let's put J.